Film Budgets

johnnysmack

Not sure if this is the right place for this but in general whats the average budget for a film? dont mean the big blockbusters with loads of special effects but more local stuff like The Garage and other things like that.

Goodshape

Even leaving aside 'blockbusters' the question is still far too vague tbh. The scope of a film and it's budget can vary widely based on any number of factors.

I did do a quick search for info on Garage, and according to this article it cost between 1 and 2 million euro.

While in the same article it says the directors previous film, Adam & Paul, was made for less than half that at (what they call a 'tight') €400,000.

johnnysmack

cheers. ya after re-reading i did think the question was a bit too general but thanks for the reply. kinda surprised at 1-2 million. was thinking couple hundred grand myself. can a film like that actually turn a profit costing that much or was it just for the art of it?

Goodshape

I'm mostly just theorising here, but I'd imagine that like most things - it can cost money to make money.

For instance : getting in a big(er) name actor will cost money, but it will also grab you some attention which will result in better sales. And some of that 2million no doubt went straight into advertising and promotion - again, it drives the budget up but will also result in more sales.

Without these things it can be very hard to get any kind of mainstream attention (unless your short, no-name, un-promoted film is exceptionally good)... so in reality I'd wager the more expensive film is more likely to recoup.

It's the "do it on the cheap" crowd that are more likely doing it for the art.

johnnysmack

would i be right in guessing the government probably gave a grant too? is it all still tax free (or at least less tax)? i remember it definitely was before anyway. i imagine there were probably sponsors and the like too? sorry for all the questions, just curious.

Goodshape

Well, Adam & Paul was one of those lucky shoe-string films that got some attention so yeah, I'd imagine they found it easier to get grants and/or sponsors after that for Garage.

I really don't know where they got their money though ; but yeah, I doubt very much it was from the filmmakers own back-pockets.

BlitzKrieg

can a film like that actually turn a profit costing that much or was it just for the art of it?

The money for independent films is in the sale for distributers.


If a film costs £2 million to make it would make its money back by either

a) relying on either good critical response and/or biggish names to attract one of the larger companies to buy worldwide distribution.

So for example Little Miss Sunshine, an independent film, has a number of *sorta* big names involved and has a good response from the sundance film festival. Fox buys up the distribution of it for 10.5 million.

Its budget was 8 million. Thats 2.5 million profit.

b) Same process but the film probably has no big names attached and doesnt make it to any of the big festivals. What would happen here is the distribution would be sold piece by piece across the world.

The easiest example of this is most Asian films, A large number of them, such as The Ring and Infernal Affairs, the distribution of them in the UK and Ireland was (they are now gone) by a company called Tartan.

Outside the british isles though, numerous other companies hold the distribution rights, in the US the Weinstein company hold the rights.


If the filmmakers pace the sales, they can also score big in some cases.

Such as Infernal Affairs which did very well critically and in dvd sales in the UK, was noticed by filmmakers in the US and with Asian remakes on the high at the time, the rights for a remake + US distribution were bought up at a much larger price, leading onto The Departed.

BlitzKrieg

johnnysmack wrote: »

would i be right in guessing the government probably gave a grant too? is it all still tax free (or at least less tax)? i remember it definitely was before anyway. i imagine there were probably sponsors and the like too? sorry for all the questions, just curious.

There are number of sources for funding in ireland.

There's the Film Council

Filmbase

BCI

Arts Council

local councils

RTE etc


The catch with pretty much *all* of the above is none of them will fully fund your project, they will pay a percentage or something similar. usually it comes with strings attached.

For example, the BCI, they have a funding scheme called The Sound and Vision, you can get a good bit of funding through that *but* they have a rule saying anything they fund, must have a letter of broadcast from an Irish broadcaster.

What this means is before you can even ask for money you need to ask a TV station to agree in writing that they will broadcast your movie, also that they will broadcast it by a certain date.

Also The BCI Sound and Vision fund must be applied for before the film goes into production. They wont give funding to films that are already in production. They also wont allow you to spend the money on Capital, which means you can only rent equipment not buy it (though you can buy it and rent to yourself )

The recent irish film Eden was partily funded by Sound and Vision, hence why it was aired on RTE before it went to Cinema even.


Alot of places work with a variety of similar rules and it would be best to learn a number of them.

local councils etc are sort of in reverse, they will pay a smaller piece of the fund if you are filming in their area, they might even not pay in finance but in actual services (locations, sets etc) but you will need to hound them and get them to agree to a rule set, they wont in alot of cases have a defined response. Alot more chasing up but a bit less regulated.

You would build your budget up from these and the minimal goal you would want (but not aim for) is to get the film through production so that its at least on the borderline post production, that way you can put together a rough cut and look for completion capital which is easier because you have something physical to sell.

The other thing to watch out for (esp with Film Council) is grants. They come with their own set of rules usually restricting the money very stingently to one area. For example a common grant to pick up is a Research grant, its money to research your project, meaning you cant use any of the money for filming or hiring actors etc. Grants tend to be very specific in what they pay for. While schemes etc usually allow you to spill it over into multiple areas.

keefg

johnnysmack wrote: »

cheers. ya after re-reading i did think the question was a bit too general but thanks for the reply. kinda surprised at 1-2 million. was thinking couple hundred grand myself. can a film like that actually turn a profit costing that much or was it just for the art of it?

Another thing to keep in mind is although the production itself mightn't cost a million euros......the things that can really rack up the costs are the likes of securing music rights and a decent marketing campaign.

So even if you manage to film a masterpiece in your backyard for 25 euro there are other costs to consider.....unfortunately.

johnnysmack

cheers guys that was very educational. im outa questions at minute but il be back if i think of more.

johnnysmack

just quick question. what about music videos? again im sure your budget depends on whether your a big name/act or indie band but what would average cost be? 15-20k?

keefg

If you are creative enough then a music video can be shot for next to nothing, especially for a new band/singer.

You obviously don't need to worry about paying a fortune to secure the music rights and unless you are Duran Duran you won't a million dollar yacht in the Caribbean.

A decent DOP, interesting location (failing that a warehouse) clever (or creative) lighting and a bit of editing magic should do the trick.

Nolanger

Goodshape wrote: »

Well, Adam & Paul was one of those lucky shoe-string films that got some attention

Wouldn't call it luck - it was good film that this country was crying out for for years. Years of total sh*te from the IFB and then this comes out. Still remember seeing that movie in the cinema thinking why wasn't the Film Board funding this stuff a decade earlier?

~Marky~

Big name music videos would cost alot about 200k onwards.

keefg

~Marky~ wrote: »

Big name music videos would cost alot about 200k onwards.

What do you mean? For the likes of U2, Madonna etc?

Yeah, their budget probably starts at 200k (lucky buggers).

Putting together a video for a new or unsigned band who doesn't have a big record company budget can be done on the cheap.

Diogenes

Nolanger wrote: »

Wouldn't call it luck - it was good film that this country was crying out for for years. Years of total sh*te from the IFB and then this comes out. Still remember seeing that movie in the cinema thinking why wasn't the Film Board funding this stuff a decade earlier?

Also the director Lenny Abrahams is a major commericals Director, and built up enormous good will among the film making community in Ireland. A post production facility house is more than likely to reduce it's fees for a guy who's brought dozens of high end commericals to them over the years. Similiarly DoPs, art directors etc, who rely on him for bread and butter commericals work would be more likely to take a pay cut for feature film.

Finally everyone wants to work in feature films, and just the fact that theres a director you like, doing an interesting film script, can ensure you have a much easier time and do more with 400,000 than the arrive guy who's just won the lottery and is using it to fund his opus.


But onto making a profit. Most films don't. Most films don't break even. Most films don't get a cinema release. Here's a list of Films make in Ireland in the past decade? Pick a page at random. I guarentee there will be at least one film on that page that you've never heard of. And we've got a tiny film industry.

The Irish Film Industry is a subsidised industry.Most people in the Irish film Industry survive due to;

A) Commericals

Large US/UK productions using Irish Locations and Crews.

Dustaz

~Marky~ wrote: »

Big name music videos would cost alot about 200k onwards.

VERY few music videos these days cost that much. Even for pretty well known bands (and im talking top ten types here) in the UK most videos will have a budget of 10k to 20k. A lot of them are done as loss leaders for directors to have on their commercial showreel.