Car Insurance Rising

johndaman66

Hi All,

A couple of questions somebody in the know may be able to help me with hopefully. I got my car insurance renewal quotation by post today which is due for renewal on the 1st of February next and the premium has gone up even though there has not being any change in the particulars or any claims made

The quotation given is 470.68 euro and the premium I paid back in January last year was 458.63 euro. The only thing I can say that has changed is that I got 2 penalty points for speeding during the year (the only penalty points I ever got). However I believe (or so I have being told by a number of people) that 2 penalty points should not affect your insurance. In any case I don't think the Insurance Company have access to this information (but may be wrong in saying this) and have never being asked for my license in my 7 years claims free driving with this same insurance company (first 5 as a named driver under my fathers policy and the last 2 up until 31st of January, 2009 in my own name).

I understand there is little over a tenner in it but believe it should be coming down as opposed to going up and the principle of this is what I have an issue with as I believe I should now be considered a loyal low risk customer. I understand that Insurance companies run sales and promotions from time to time these days but this was not the case last renewal time for me. Also the insurance only went down about a fiver after the first year driving in my own name.

The insurance company in question is Quinn Direct. I recall reading a case in mijag similar to the above where a fella took Quinn Direct to court and won as it was deemed illegal for the company to rise the premium under the circumstances. Also I read in a previous thread that it may be possible to get a more competitive quote if I ring and request a new quote as opposed to the renewal quote (with same insurance company). This sounds a bit silly... Is this the case?

Maybe I'm off the mark in saying this but don't think it gives Quinn the right to fleece his customers just because hes after loosing a fortune in Anglo shares.

Any advice on above welcomed and appreciated.

Anan1

I presume you've shopped around?

johndaman66

Anan1 wrote: »

I presume you've shopped around?

I haven't shopped around yet. What I plan to do is ring Quinn Direct tomorrow and ask why my premium is rising as opposed to falling and argue my case (as the case may be). Then request a complete history of my driving experience is posted to me straight away and also shop around tomorrow (if Ive time). Last year the most competitive quote aside from Quinn was something over 600 as far as I can recall..

wheresthebeef

this happened to my parents. they went to the quinn website and did a new quote. got the cheaper price from the website and rang up their customer care to ask why a new customer would get a discount over a loyal customers of many years. they instantly reduced the premium to below the lower online price. don't let them talk you in circles.

or try nononsense.ie

Fizman

OP, if I was in your situation right now, I myself would not query my premium rising by 20 quid.

From Quinns point of view, yes you would and probably should be classed as a loyal customer. Having attained 2 points due to speeding during the year however, you certainly would not be viewed as 'low risk'.

On the whole Quinn thing however:
My insurance expired with Quinn 2 days ago. I have been driving for 2 years, both years I have been insured with Quinn, claims free. My renewal premium this time round was €825 (was €1250 last year - at the time I was provisional). I shopped around and got a quote from 123.ie of €725. I rang Quinn to inform them of this, twice. On both occasions, after I had outlined clearly that I had a different company offering their service for 100 cheaper, they just repeated the same thing, "We are currently not matching any competitive quotes".

So in a nutshell, its take it or leave it. I left it. I had other companies ringing me up (companies whom I had gotten online quotes from and I had left them my contact details) asking what kind of quotes I had been getting from competitiors. Quinn put up absolutely no fight to hold on to my custom. This, to me, is a slightly worrying sign (as regards to the future of the company). In the end I went with 123.ie as they were by far and away the cheapest.

boredatwork82

Every Insurance company does that and alot of people just pay the increase, Well for some that have money to burn.
Ring every insurance company in the golden pages, and go with the cheapest. Also tell the company you are talking to what your lowest offer ( I generally make one up for good measure) and they will do their best to beat it. Take the name and the ref number for the call, and when you have done this to everyone take the cheapest insurance.

Bobeagleburger

Try Jardine & Llyod, its a broker. They knocked 200 off my insurance recently and anyone I know who have used them have had a reduction

Anan1

johndaman66 wrote: »

I haven't shopped around yet. What I plan to do is ring Quinn Direct tomorrow and ask why my premium is rising as opposed to falling and argue my case (as the case may be). Then request a complete history of my driving experience is posted to me straight away and also shop around tomorrow (if Ive time). Last year the most competitive quote aside from Quinn was something over 600 as far as I can recall..

Quinn can charge whatever they see fit, it's a free market. You need to shop around every year to get the best quote.

johndaman66

Fizman wrote: »

OP, if I was in your situation right now, I myself would not query my premium rising by 20 quid.

Thanks Fizman and ans all who have posted replies so far. However, in response to the above point I believe I am owed some sort of explanation how ever half baked it may be. Having said that though I understand its just somebody ordinary like me on the other side of the phone doing their days work

Fizman wrote: »

From Quinns point of view, yes you would and probably should be classed as a loyal customer. Having attained 2 points due to speeding during the year however, you certainly would not be viewed as 'low risk'.

I have being told by quite a few people that 2 points have no bearing whatsoever on your insurance. Not saying you are wrong though. Also on the no claims discount entitlement form it provides that the No claims discount applied is 46% or in monetary value 393.07 euro. If this is the case and assuming a new policy was commenced when I started driving under my own name (which was the case) should I not now be paying around 70 odd euro. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong but circa 463 minus 393.07 equal 70 odd? I certainly think its just downright wrong that Im paying more?

Fizman wrote: »

Quinn put up absolutely no fight to hold on to my custom. This, to me, is a slightly worrying sign (as regards to the future of the company). In the end I went with 123.ie as they were by far and away the cheapest.

Maybe your right Fizman. Good riddens to em if thats the way they do business and treat their customers...

niceirishfella

johndaman66 wrote: »

Good riddens to em if thats the way they do business and treat their customers...

You see, people get all emotive about car insurance. It's just a numbers game, its just business. Nothing personal.

Re; insurance premiums. Renewal premiums this year will be up accross the board I understand in the insurance game for motor policys.

CJhaughey

Quinn are kind of dubious IMO, they may be cheap sometimes but they are not a secure company, if they folded tomorrow you would be forced to seek insurance from another company.
Many insurance companies also speculate to increase shareholder profits, and the current financial crisis has damaged their margins, this will be taken from the punter in the form of increased premia.
This was actually signalled late last year when they said that premia would be going up.
No suprises there, for a compulsory product there is a captive market.

Anan1

niceirishfella wrote: »

You see, people get all emotive about car insurance. It's just a numbers game, its just business. Nothing personal.

Very true, if you don't like what you're hearing then just go elsewhere.

johndaman66

rarnes1 wrote: »

Try Jardine & Llyod, its a broker. They knocked 200 off my insurance recently and anyone I know who have used them have had a reduction

Are these guys online rarnes1. I assume they are in the golden pages anyhow. Will my previous 5 years claims free as a named driver stand to me at this stage or do you think this may depend on the insurance company/ broker?

Anan1

johndaman66 wrote: »

Will my previous 5 years claims free as a named driver stand to me at this stage or do you think this may depend on the insurance company/ broker?

I think most ins cos will give you some sort of credit for that.

niceirishfella

CJhaughey wrote: »

Quinn are kind of dubious IMO, they may be cheap sometimes but they are not a secure company, if they folded tomorrow you would be forced to seek insurance from another company.
Many insurance companies also speculate to increase shareholder profits, and the current financial crisis has damaged their margins, this will be taken from the punter in the form of increased premia.
This was actually signalled late last year when they said that premia would be going up.
No suprises there, for a compulsory product there is a captive market.

Careful CJ! Please tell us more about why you make this statement that Quinn Direct is not a secure co?
Like they are regulated, and were recently slapped over the wrist by ther regulator. You can be sure that they are well heeled right now to cover all their liabilities after the last regulator and media rub down.

johndaman66

CJhaughey wrote: »

this will be taken from the punter in the form of increased premia.

It wont be taken from this punter...Can anyone answer my other initial question. Is it illegal for an insurance company to rise a premium if no claim is made and no particulars on the policy have changed? I do recall reading an article on this in mijag where a young fella took Quinn Direct to court under such circumstances and won the case as it was deemed illegal for insurance companies to raise premiums in such cases. Anybody have any insight on this one?

niceirishfella

johndaman66 wrote: »

It wont be taken from this punter...Can anyone answer my other initial question. Is it illegal for an insurance company to rise a premium if no claim is made and no particulars on the policy have changed? I do recall reading an article on this in mijag where a young fella took Quinn Direct to court under such circumstances and won the case as it was deemed illegal for insurance companies to raise premiums in such cases. Anybody have any insight on this one?

I cant comment on the case you refer to but any private co can set prices whatever way they want.
Its a free market.
Also, premiums can go up without particulars or cover changing. Insurance co's are like bookies - when they loose backing some horses (other peoples claims), they'll need to recoup on the next horse they back (you and me). As i said in a previous post, its a numbers game.

CJhaughey

niceirishfella wrote: »

Careful CJ! Please tell us more about why you make this statement that Quinn Direct is not a secure co?
Like they are regulated, and were recently slapped over the wrist by ther regulator. You can be sure that they are well heeled right now to cover all their liabilities after the last regulator and media rub down.

The fact that they have NO credit rating from any agency would make me a little worried for a start.
This article tells more and I will paste the insurance part here.

Sunday business post 28/11/08

QILs aid in its statement that the majority of the loans were since repaid and that there will be no impact on the insurance company’s 2008 financial statements. It also said this was the end of the matter as far as it was concerned.

The October revelations of heavy losses at group level and serious regulatory breaches at the insurance company came on top of the disclosure in July this year that QIL no longer enjoyed a credit rating from any credit rating agency.

Quinn’s public relations company had briefed the media at that time that Quinn no longer wanted a credit rating because he wasn’t issuing any debt. Even at the time, it seemed unusual that a company would choose not to have a credit rating in the middle of a credit crunch. It would be like a food company saying it was voluntarily withdrawing from a meat quality assurance scheme in the middle of a BSE crisis.

In fact, many leading international brokers will not recommend their clients place business with an insurance company if it is unrated or if its financial strength rating is below a certain grade.

In the US, for instance, some brokers will not place insurance business with a company enjoying a rating of less than Afrom AM Best, the US rating agency that specialises in measuring the financial strength of insurance companies.

Closer to home, some of the larger international broking houses operating here do not generally place business with QIL because, in their view, it never had a sufficiently strong credit rating. However, clearly many brokers and customers do place their business with Quinn Insurance and have benefited from the cheaper premiums it has offered in the marketplace over several years, something that has made the insurance company several hundred million euro in the last ten years.

The Regulator and Quinn may well hope that the Quinn story ended on the Friday of the October Bank Holiday weekend. But, as we say in the media, this story looks very much as though it has legs. That means it will run and run.

niceirishfella

CJhaughey wrote: »

The fact that they have NO credit rating from any agency would make me a little worried for a start.
This article tells more and I will paste the insurance part here.

Sunday business post 28/11/08

QILs aid in its statement that the majority of the loans were since repaid and that there will be no impact on the insurance company’s 2008 financial statements. It also said this was the end of the matter as far as it was concerned.

The October revelations of heavy losses at group level and serious regulatory breaches at the insurance company came on top of the disclosure in July this year that QIL no longer enjoyed a credit rating from any credit rating agency.

Quinn’s public relations company had briefed the media at that time that Quinn no longer wanted a credit rating because he wasn’t issuing any debt. Even at the time, it seemed unusual that a company would choose not to have a credit rating in the middle of a credit crunch. It would be like a food company saying it was voluntarily withdrawing from a meat quality assurance scheme in the middle of a BSE crisis.

In fact, many leading international brokers will not recommend their clients place business with an insurance company if it is unrated or if its financial strength rating is below a certain grade.

In the US, for instance, some brokers will not place insurance business with a company enjoying a rating of less than Afrom AM Best, the US rating agency that specialises in measuring the financial strength of insurance companies.

Closer to home, some of the larger international broking houses operating here do not generally place business with QIL because, in their view, it never had a sufficiently strong credit rating. However, clearly many brokers and customers do place their business with Quinn Insurance and have benefited from the cheaper premiums it has offered in the marketplace over several years, something that has made the insurance company several hundred million euro in the last ten years.

The Regulator and Quinn may well hope that the Quinn story ended on the Friday of the October Bank Holiday weekend. But, as we say in the media, this story looks very much as though it has legs. That means it will run and run.

Media spivv'ing and speculation about what happens next. Fact is and it says it in the article itself that many brokers and customers do place their business with Quinn Insurance and have benefited from the cheaper premiums", its Ireland largest insurer for private business, employs thousands and for some is a lifesaver when it comes to premiums.
If the truth be known, I'd say the rest of them out there are no more secure.

Johnny Utah

You have to phone around every time you renew. I think I've changed insurance companies every year, simply because I got a better quote elsewhere.


My premium went up over €200 this year, despite the fact that I have a full NCB (in my own name), I'm a year older and the car is worth less. This quote was sent out in the post before Christmas. Again, I decided to phone up all the main insurance companies to see if I could do any better. The thing I noticed this year was that very few of the insurance companies were seriously interested in my business. Even QuinnDirect were well over double my best quote, and weren't interested in reducing at all, whereas in previous years they have. Maybe it's a cartel, but definitely this year, most of them weren't genuinely interested in securing business.

Anyway after securing a better quote from a different insurance co, I rang up my own insurer to query this increase. All they could say was; "rates have gone up across the board". Gangsters!

johndaman66 wrote: »

It wont be taken from this punter...Can anyone answer my other initial question. Is it illegal for an insurance company to rise a premium if no claim is made and no particulars on the policy have changed? I do recall reading an article on this in mijag where a young fella took Quinn Direct to court under such circumstances and won the case as it was deemed illegal for insurance companies to raise premiums in such cases. Anybody have any insight on this one?

You may be thinking of a case where a young guy took a case against an insurance company claiming gender discrimination becuase quotes for women of the same age and driving experience were always cheaper. I think the case was settled out of court.

CJhaughey

niceirishfella wrote: »

Media spivv'ing and speculation about what happens next. Fact is and it says it in the article itself that many brokers and customers do place their business with Quinn Insurance and have benefited from the cheaper premiums", its Ireland largest insurer for private business, employs thousands and for some is a lifesaver when it comes to premiums.
If the truth be known, I'd say the rest of them out there are no more secure.

Hey it's your money and you can do what you like with it.
Seems that the deal is good for the private person and small brokerages, but the big boys have enough sense to stay away.
The rest of them may not be any more secure but at least they have a credit rating.
Like I say I don't care where you spend your money, but I can tell you there will never be a time when I spend money with Quinn.

January

johndaman66 wrote: »

I have being told by quite a few people that 2 points have no bearing whatsoever on your insurance. Not saying you are wrong though. Also on the no claims discount entitlement form it provides that the No claims discount applied is 46% or in monetary value 393.07 euro. If this is the case and assuming a new policy was commenced when I started driving under my own name (which was the case) should I not now be paying around 70 odd euro. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong but circa 463 minus 393.07 equal 70 odd? I certainly think its just downright wrong that Im paying more?

No, the monetary value of 393.07 means that if you had NO no claims bonus that you would be paying an extra 393.07€ on your insurance policy. So it would be 463 + 393.07.

niceirishfella

CJhaughey wrote: »

Hey it's your money and you can do what you like with it.
Seems that the deal is good for the private person and small brokerages, but the big boys have enough sense to stay away.
The rest of them may not be any more secure but at least they have a credit rating.
Like I say I don't care where you spend your money, but I can tell you there will never be a time when I spend money with Quinn.

Really, look around you and the house you bought?
You probably already have!
ohhh, btw- I don't spend money with Quinn, I'm with FBD myself.:)

Mrs Doyle

Insurance defintely going up, last year I got €520 with FBD, no changes bar my car devalueing A LOT, and this years quote is €607. Of course I rang them demanding an explanation, and all I got was a simple reply of insurance went up everywhere last year around summer when the recession began. Got him down to €575, but I said No thanks! Shouldnt insurance be going down what with competition due to recession and devaluing of cars???!! [Also asked this to Mr FBD but got no memorable response]

Mr E

I think alot of people are getting screwed because they are paying insurance on Direct Debit. For the last few years, I've been with Quinn, and my car insurance is holding steady at about €460. So in January, I'd say "feck it" and just let it roll into a new policy.

Following a tip from a friend, I checked out 123.ie out of curiousity, and their quote (inc. fully comp, windscreen cover, breakdown assist, etc.) was €290.

I tried a fresh quote on Quinn (as suggested earlier on this thread) and got quoted €740 - thats with 7 years no-claims and no penalty points.

Time to move.

McSpud

5% decrease for me this year with FBD (I have found them very competitive in previous years so haven't moved for last 3 years) & 123.ie the only online quote to get close to E313 TPFT. I have full no claims etc...

johndaman66

Just to give an update. Went online and made some phone calls yesterday and got a quote for 420 euro odd from AXA through chill.ie. Then rang Quinn Direct and asked them why my premium was rising. Got the usual story many other posters have being getting of premiums are rising across the board. Told him I was getting a quote for 420 elsewhere and could thry beat it. He couldn't do anything for me so requested a complete history of my claims free years driving as will be taking my business elsewhere (what I got in the post only shows my driving history in my own name and not my previous named driver experience with them).

I found also many insurance companies/ brokers dont give you the option of providing previous named driver experience if you are currently driving under your own name (they will only allow you give one or the other) and as a result most of the quotes were coming in at well over 500 euro. chill.ie on the other hand do allow you the option of inputting both.

Really glad I got quoted better elsewhere. Not so much for the sake of the money and even if I was quoted a few quid dearer elsewhere I probably would have taken my business elsewhere on principle.:)

johndaman66

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Even QuinnDirect were well over double my best quote, and weren't interested in reducing at all, whereas in previous years they have. Maybe it's a cartel, but definitely this year, most of them weren't genuinely interested in securing business.

Anyway after securing a better quote from a different insurance co, I rang up my own insurer to query this increase. All they could say was; "rates have gone up across the board". Gangsters!

I hear you Johnny. Also if premiums are going up across the board and accident free drivers are being made pay for others accidents could one not argue that insurance should be the same for everybody across the board on day one regardless of age or gender. I believe a system such as this is or at least has being operated in Canada and worked reasonably well. Only if you have an accident is your insurance loaded. Then charge the 5,000 euro premium (as I know some friends have paid in the past to get on the road). It would make car insurance more equitable I reckon. Nobody should have to pay that kind of money for compulsary car insurance to get on the road and where a car is a necessity.:mad:

Johnny Utah wrote: »

You may be thinking of a case where a young guy took a case against an insurance company claiming gender discrimination becuase quotes for women of the same age and driving experience were always cheaper. I think the case was settled out of court.

I defiantely recall reading a case along the lines of what I described on MIJAG. Had a quick look again and can't see it now. Oddly the only other points I recall from it was that the car was a Honda Civic and the premium had gone up a fair wallop as far as I recall. Maybe somebody out there may have come across this story at some point?

johndaman66

adrieanne__x wrote: »

No, the monetary value of 393.07 means that if you had NO no claims bonus that you would be paying an extra 393.07€ on your insurance policy. So it would be 463 + 393.07.

That kinda makes more sense of it for me adrieanne:cool:

johndaman66

Just to provide another update. Took today off work as had some business in in town. Just happened to be passing the FBD so said to myself what the hell, I may call in as they might well give me a better quote than on online. Circa 680 euro they quoted me but the fella in there was very helpful and pointed me in the direction of a nearby broker. Went into the broker and gave my details and I was quoted 350 euro by them for TPF&T cover with AXA. Not only is this 70 euro cheaper than I was quoted with AXA through chill.ie for third party only cover. It also includes a host of extras, windscreen cover, breakdown assist, and stepback bonus protection even. There is not even any excess on it (excess of 300 euro on quote I got from chill.ie). Was actually shocked and got him to go through everything again as was saying to myself that cannot be right but same quotation came up.

Can anybody give a logical explanation for the above, even regarding the different quotations I got from chill.ie and broker for the different levels of cover with AXA?

Then rang Quinn direct when I got home as have not yet received my named driving experience documentation from them and just to follow up on it. Asked had it being posted out and girl said no as the original policy holder could only request this. Got really annoyed and told her I knew my rights and that they were obliged to furnish me with this documentation. Said to her that in any case there may well be instances where the original policy holder may now be decessed. She asked me hold to line which I did for a few minutes and then got back to me and said it would be posted out to me straight away. Whats going on here like?


What I can conclude from this whole experience is that the whole insurance industry including companies and brokers are unreputable and money grabbing swines and chancers.

roosterman71

My insurance with FBD went from €600 to €728 this year (7 years driving, full NCB, 1.4 car!!). I rang the company and told them they were having a laugh, and all the girl said that costs were going up. She wasn't impressed when I told her customers will go down with crazy increases like this.

I ended up going with One Direct for €440. Since then, my father and 3 of my friends have switched.