Eze on Arsene Wenger-Is this the end?

Have you ever read how Fab reacts whenever he is rumoured to be leaving? He comes out that day and denies it. None of this "leave it for a few weeks, lets renegotiate my contract bull".

He also went on record to say that barca (his first childhood team) should show more respect to Arsenal.

Source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/arsenal/article4213203.ece

No chance of him leaving for at least 3 seasons.

gosplan

SWAR wrote: »

Ok, not saying you are wrong but I find it hard to believe that Arsenal were paying that kind of money let alone a sign on fee, as I say maybe they were!

Sure the other players are on 'good money' (except Walcott who is on a reported £20k a week), £60k per week or maybe more? However there are certain clubs in England, let alone Europe, that would double that figure should they see a place for Fabregas within their makeup.

Yes I agree Fabregas seems like a decent guy and is probably motivated by more than just money, trophies? CL Football? Sure Arsenal have a decent tradition in the CL over the past ten years but don't forget they nearly lost 4th spot to Spurs a few years ago and they may not be so lucky this year. Sure it was a clever ploy by Wenger to appoint him club captain (probably the best choice anyway FWIW) but really, how much allegiance do most of these forign footballers have to their clubs, not a lot IMO. I would say it's 50;50 whether Fabregas stays or goes in the summer.

I think you're kind of making it up as you go here.

Henry was floating around the 100K a week mark or so before he left. it was never disclosed exactly but I think he was the best or second best paid in the premiership.

Flamini aside, I Can't really remember anyone else leaving Arsenal for the wages.

Yes Fabregas will go some day, as will Ronaldo and many of the top foreign players who don't intend spending their entire career in the UK.

Exactly what is your point?

jank

SWAR wrote: »

Ok, not saying you are wrong but I find it hard to believe that Arsenal were paying that kind of money let alone a sign on fee, as I say maybe they were!

So I'm not wrong but you still think your right even though facts say otherwise. Having a predefined option regardless of facts is fine. Just come out and say it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/apr/18/sport.comment

SWAR wrote: »

Sure the other players are on 'good money' (except Walcott who is on a reported £20k a week), £60k per week or maybe more? However there are certain clubs in England, let alone Europe, that would double that figure should they see a place for Fabregas within their makeup.

I cant see anyone offering the van persie et al 120k a week. Those 6 figure wages have to be earned. Anyway havent you heard of the world recesion we are currently in? Walcott is due to a new contract all right. I sure you will hear about it in the press.

SWAR wrote: »

Yes I agree Fabregas seems like a decent guy and is probably motivated by more than just money, trophies? CL Football? Sure Arsenal have a decent tradition in the CL over the past ten years but don't forget they nearly lost 4th spot to Spurs a few years ago and they may not be so lucky this year. Sure it was a clever ploy by Wenger to appoint him club captain (probably the best choice anyway FWIW) but really, how much allegiance do most of these forign footballers have to their clubs, not a lot IMO. I would say it's 50;50 whether Fabregas stays or goes in the summer.

Fabregas will leave sometime alright but I cant see it for a few years yet.
He is still very young and has a good 10-15 years left in him injury permitting of course.

Case in point. Look at Milan, they didnt qualify for the CL, did all their players leave? Juve got relegated. Some players left yes, but some of their world class players stayed out of loyalty. It all depends on the player(s) in question.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Spose i better chime in on this too. Though i think LuckyLloyd and Jank pretty much nailed it in those two posts earlier on.

I think it was Openroad who posted the article/blog in the arsenal thread a while ago about how Arsenal fans have been spoiled. It is a trait that you see in a lot of modern football fans and the press. The insistence of success no matter what the circumstances. You can see this in the revolving door system hiring and firing of managers. As has been said, if Wenger or Ferguson had been starting up now they'd have been out the door after a year or two of no trophies.

The impression I've been getting off Wenger lately has been that it's like he's willing to take the flack for not spending and not winning trophies year in year out so that he can ensure the long term stability of the club. If he can get the club through this period just after the new stadium being built in a decent condition, then he will be doing a greater service to the club than winning the carling cup last year would have done(for example). The man obviously knows about economics and therefore understands that keeping a club in huge debt is not the best way of sustaining its future success.

We can all see that at the moment that the team isn't good enough to win the premiership, and has some major problems. But at least with the youth policy its set up in such a way that the team will improve with time, especially with returning players and (hopefully) some good signings in key areas. If, and this is a massive if, this team were to stay together for even 2 more years, I can imagine it being a world beater.

This brings me onto my next point and imo where Wenger has gone wrong most, as people have already alluded to. Keeping the players in the team. Losing Hleb, Gilberto, Diarra and most importantly Flamini, has disrupted a lot of the progress made in the team. I respect the wage cap and I realise that its very difficult and perhaps detrimental to keep players that don't want to be there but adequate replacements have to be provided for if nothing can be done to keep the players. Nasri was a good replacement for Hleb, unfortunately there was no one to cover Rosicky(hopefully Arshavin could solve this if he were to sign). But Denilson hasn't been the appropriate player to replace Flamini, nor has Song. And this is one of Wengers other problems, his stubbornness. He (seemingly)becomes blind to what most can see is an obvious weakness in his side, and (again, seemingly)refuses to sign the extra players to make the difference. For all we know right now he's out there searching for that final piece(or 3!:p) to the puzzle.

But no, Wenger shouldn't be sacked imo. He will most likely step down at the end of a contract when he feels he isn't able to do any more as manager of the club. What he has done in his time at the club shouldn't be underestimated or forgotten just because of his current perceived failings. He should be commended for trying to run a club in a responsible manner whilst also playing football in a positive way. And even though it can't always be guaranteed successful, it has as good a chance as any given the resources available at the club right now. I can't see any other manager doing much better at the moment...can YOU?:pac:

ArmaniJeanss

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

First off, if you think I am a typical sky sport punditry believing; tabloid reading sort of football fan you are gravely mistaken.

Saying "football is about winning games, not avoiding defeat" is rubbish in the context of an entire league campaign. Arsenal didn't stay unbeaten through hanging on and thinking defense first. They were marvellous in all departments and to play the way they did while maintaining a sufficient level of concentration and intensity to never lose a game in the process of a 38 game campaign is extraordinary. And it isn't just 'Sky Sports' who think that way about 2003 / 4.

As to the rest of what your saying, I'll just tell you straight that I think such a line of thought is bull****. And is more a product of the Sky Sports / tabloid penchant for punditry that is reactionary and hyperbolic. Ferguson went three years from 03 / 4 to 05 / 6 without making a fist of the league down to the wire or getting in the mix in Europe. Should he have been fired too? That period saw the departure of RVN, Keane, Beckham, Veron and the entry and settling in of new talent. Should he have been thrown under the bus in January 2006 because Utd had taken a step back during that period?

Arsenal will finish in the top four this year thus maintaining their Champions League status. I wouldn't completely write them off in the CL or FA Cup either. In my view, change for change sake is silly and there needs to be a very, very good reason to not give the very elite managers a number of years to rebuild a squad. Mourinhio, Hiddink and Cappello are not available now and won't be. If they were and interested there might be some merit in a grass is greener on the other side view. But when there is no viable alternative then what the **** are we talking about here?

Didn't mean to imply you were a tabloid reading 1992 onwards type of fan, I know you are not and I phrased it badly.

I still think you are wrong about the unbeaten achievement, if a team did 33 wins and 5 defeats in a campaign I'd consider it a hugely more impressive achievement. I don't even think the 2003/04 were the the best Wenger title winning team.

As for the rest, you feel AW should be given more time - thats fair enough.
I don't, and just because Fergie made a comeback from a similar trough doesn't mean AW will. It looks like a downward spiral from where I'm sitting and if he is in charge next summer and there hasn't been serious experienced reinforcements I'll be looking to oppose them every which way possible in bookies, betfair and spreads etc.
Having an alternate opinion doesn't make something bull****.

Royale with Cheese

Wreck wrote: »

And the best chance of remaining competitive lies with Wenger.

You've hit the nail on the head there. Get rid of Wenger and then all the people calling for his head will see how wrong they are. Not that they'd care, there's hardly any Arsenal fans calling for him to go.

Bounty Hunter

is it the end though if the first half of the season repeats itself and they dont get CL football next season? its never fair really to judge half way through a season.

OPENROAD

PHB wrote: »

Arsenal have **** all money. People need to realise this. Their transfer budget is effectively 0.

Arsenal will be a team in transition until the Emirates is paid off for. But Wenger will have somehow kept them in the CL for that time. How they managed to keep Wenger is beyond me.

To an extent, do Liverpool,Man Utd really have money, or are they not increasing the clubs debt, We have money to spend though the club have decided to be prudent rather than increasing the debt of the club like some other clubs do, look at the accounts that have been just published, we have money to spend but it is only in the region of £20m. Arsene has signed up to this strategy and obviously has a deep loyalty to the club and by all accounts loves London.

Pepe LeFrits

Last season showed that Wenger still has the ability to build quality teams that can compete. Had Eduardo not suffered that leg break then I think that side had every chance of winning the league, which would have been as big an achievement as the unbeaten league campaign. However that didn't happen and the squad which was almost finished lost a few important components and has naturally regressed.

Wenger needs to show a practical side (and that he's not completely obsessed with his youth-policy principles) and bring in top quality players either in this window or the next. The club can't and shouldn't have to wait another couple of seasons for his next batch to reach the required level because if it does, the exact same thing that happened with Hleb and Flamini will happen again and we'll be nowhere.

redout

I almost swore I read that Arsenal are the club which rake in the most money from home games. Even more than United. The Emirates is suppose to be a gold mine. Either way I doubt that they are short of a few bob.

LuckyLloyd

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Having an alternate opinion doesn't make something bull****.

That is correct. My apologies. We'll have to agree to disagree, which is obviously fair enough.

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Had Eduardo not suffered that leg break then I think that side had every chance of winning the league...

By the way, what's the story with Eduardo? Is he finished?

Frisbee

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

By the way, what's the story with Eduardo? Is he finished?

He played his first reserve game on December the 15th.
I'd expect to see him on the bench near the end of this month.

leninbenjamin

redout wrote: »

I almost swore I read that Arsenal are the club which rake in the most money from home games. Even more than United. The Emirates is suppose to be a gold mine. Either way I doubt that they are short of a few bob.

it is. but they also didn't generate as much revenue as they would have liked from the sale of the apartments at Highbury, and building a stadium is an expensive business these days.

they aren't short of money, the van Persie contract illustrates this i feel. but at the same time, they aren't awash with it, some prudence is still required with that few hundred million loan balance still hanging over their heads. Most clubs, including United have all bought their playsers on borrowed money, whereas Arsenal i feel, with the loan debt they already don't do this, or at least not to the same extent as the other clubs. that's what Wenger's words anyway seem to suggest.

I don't think they are in as dire a position as PHB describes, the evidence just isn't there to support it. if they were, they would have taken the 20million on offer for Adebayor and ran.

LuckyLloyd

Frisbee wrote: »

He played his first reserve game on December the 15th.
I'd expect to see him on the bench near the end of this month.

Glad to hear that. He looked like a hell of a player before that nasty, nasty injury.

ditpoker

there's alot of reading in this thread, and i hope it has been mentioned but my brief scan didnt find it... bearing in mind that as a spurs fan i'm meant to dislike arsenal, but i happily admit they are one of the most entertaining sides in europe and... most importantly...

any manager that can guide any team through an entrire premiership season unbeaten should be allowed to play one legged 3 year olds in his team and guarantee relegation and still not once ever have his position as manager questioned... that achievement in itself should guarantee his job for life regardless...

SWAR

gosplan wrote: »

I think you're kind of making it up as you go here.

Henry was floating around the 100K a week mark or so before he left. it was never disclosed exactly but I think he was the best or second best paid in the premiership.

Flamini aside, I Can't really remember anyone else leaving Arsenal for the wages.

Yes Fabregas will go some day, as will Ronaldo and many of the top foreign players who don't intend spending their entire career in the UK.

Exactly what is your point?

Of course I'm making it up as I go along, I'm not reading it from a book!

Fine, Henry was on 100K per week, but my point about henry was that I think Wenger sold him a year or two too early...as i say my opinion.

Did Hleb leave for the money?

Anyway, if you read my previous posts, my main point (before the thread got a bid sidetracked) was that I believe Wenger seems to let go of his experienced players quite regularly and keep replacing thme with 'Kids'...we hear the same comments every year about how when they all mature they will be unstoppable...not if they can't hang onto them.

SWAR

jank wrote: »

So I'm not wrong but you still think your right even though facts say otherwise. Having a predefined option regardless of facts is fine. Just come out and say it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/apr/18/sport.comment

I never said I was right if you read it properly...I sad I found it hard to believe but maybe they were.
I cant see anyone offering the van persie et al 120k a week. Those 6 figure wages have to be earned. Anyway havent you heard of the world recesion we are currently in? Walcott is due to a new contract all right. I sure you will hear about it in the press.

That's you're opinion, anyway it's all speculative anyway. Really we are in a recession? Thanks for the economic update!

Fabregas will leave sometime alright but I cant see it for a few years yet.
He is still very young and has a good 10-15 years left in him injury permitting of course.

Case in point. Look at Milan, they didnt qualify for the CL, did all their players leave? Juve got relegated. Some players left yes, but some of their world class players stayed out of loyalty. It all depends on the player(s) in question.

Again, we won't know whether you are right or wrong until the summer.

Sure, some of the Milan and Juve players didn't leave, let's just hope for Arsenal's sake the same thing happens to them in the summer should they finish 5th!

LuckyLloyd

ditpoker wrote: »

there's alot of reading in this thread, and i hope it has been mentioned but my brief scan didnt find it... bearing in mind that as a spurs fan i'm meant to dislike arsenal, but i happily admit they are one of the most entertaining sides in europe and... most importantly...

any manager that can guide any team through an entrire premiership season unbeaten should be allowed to play one legged 3 year olds in his team and guarantee relegation and still not once ever have his position as manager questioned... that achievement in itself should guarantee his job for life regardless...

Scan more thoroughly next time imo.

Wreck

Just wanted to add that imo Arsenal would have to finish out of the top four three times in a row before we considered getting rid of Wenger, and I'm pretty certain the current board would give it at least two years. So talk of this season being the end for Wenger is pretty ridiculous, baring major regime changes at the club. I also think Arsenal will be Wenger's last job in club football, and he will almost certainly be offered another position whenever he decides to retire from management.