Rip of Public Service

irishshogun

dolliemix wrote: »

Irishshogun I'm sorry to hear about your situation, for you, your family and your students.

I agree with Irishshogun that there is something deeper than a public servant rant here. All you have succeeded doing with this thread is personally insult individual hard-working honest people and highlight your own bitterness and lack of empathy towards other human beings.:(

Dolliemix, thanks for your kind words, like a lot of people the future is uncertain but we'll get on with it.
This Blue_sky seems to lack all moral and social fibre, he/she defines people by thier product [/QUOTE] They do not create or generate wealth [/QUOTE]a sad basis for defining worth and an obvious sign of thier shallowness. I define wealth differently than you, thankfully, a well balanced, educated, happy, literate and numerate child, a good member of society with hopes and aspirations, whose aim is not solely the acquisition of wealth. I believe it best now not to fed this troll any more and to end this thread.

kippy

Time to close this post me thinks.....

Blue-sky

dolliemix wrote: »

Irishshogun I'm sorry to hear about your situation, for you, your family and your students.

Bluesky...I,ve just finished reading this thread. You started a thread, which made uninformed sarcastic generalisations. Kippy, Rainbow Trout etc responded. You backtracked, but still continued to insult and demean a whole group of honest professionals with statements based on urban myths. I think you should read over IrishShoguns post again. He does not claim anywhere, as far as I can see, to 'entitlement'. But as with all your other posts you wont regress. when you're wrong nor will you sympathise with a fellow human being who is as scared as everyone else is about the future in this time of recession - just bacause he is a teacher.

I agree with Irishshogun that there is something deeper than a public servant rant here. All you have succeeded doing with this thread is personally insult individual hard-working honest people and highlight your own bitterness and lack of empathy towards other human beings.:(

To begin, my comments are not uninformed, viewed subjectively they may be sarcastic, they may well contain generalisations, rest assured they are not uninformed. How about yours?
In my view teachers performance both in their professional capacity as conduits of learning, and in their public profile as represented by teachers unions, has to say the least, been dismal.
Let me explain something about “Entitlement“, it is not a word or a sentence, it is a state of mind. It pervades the mindset of our Public Service, it informs and frames their thinking. It feeds on notions of overblown self importance and arrogance . Entitlement is a disease and it has infected the Public Service in this country to such an extent, that nothing short of radical surgery will cure it.
This country is in very serious trouble. Nett tax payers are loosing their jobs at an unprecedented rate. In addition as if things were not bad enough, the country’s major organ, the public Service, is riddled with a cancer called “Entitlement”, which if left unchallenged will sink this country. So when you suggest there may be something deeper than a “ Public Service rant” here? I think its safe to say yes, ‘it’s the economy stupid’.

kippy

Blue-sky wrote: »

To begin, my comments are not uninformed, viewed subjectively they may be sarcastic, they may well contain generalisations, rest assured they are not uninformed. How about yours?
In my view teachers performance both in their professional capacity as conduits of learning, and in their public profile as represented by teachers unions, has to say the least, been dismal.
Let me explain something about “Entitlement“, it is not a word or a sentence, it is a state of mind. It pervades the mindset of our Public Service, it informs and frames their thinking. It feeds on notions of overblown self importance and arrogance . Entitlement is a disease and it has infected the Public Service in this country to such an extent, that nothing short of radical surgery will cure it.
This country is in very serious trouble. Nett tax payers are loosing their jobs at an unprecedented rate. In addition as if things were not bad enough, the country’s major organ, the public Service, is riddled with a cancer called “Entitlement”, which if left unchallenged will sink this country. So when you suggest there may be something deeper than a “ Public Service rant” here? I think its safe to say yes, ‘it’s the economy stupid’.

I dont think theres anyone trying to say that the economy is not in trouble. Its been in trouble for a long time and we'll all have to make sacrifices. However you've still not come up with any plausable solutions (I've at least tried myself to give some ideas to you), especially to this endemic "entitlement" you speak so much about.
You've also given away very little about your own situation which in itself is a bit strange.....
I am reporting you for trolling, as I think your lack of actually moving forward with this topic highlights you actual total disregard for trying to do anything constructive to solve the issues you speak of, apart from firing everyone....

irishshogun

Dont feed into it, thanks to those with constructive responses but its best to end this, he has no intention but to insult and troll.

xxmarymoxx

if parents are not going to bother about raising there kids why shuould an underpaid overworked teacher have the stress of a couple of brats in their class

akaredtop

xxmarymoxx wrote: »

if parents are not going to bother about raising there kids why shuould an underpaid overworked teacher have the stress of a couple of brats in their class

I sympathise about the brats in your class. But please don't give us this garbage about being underpaid.You are getting paid 30% more than the teachers in the UK who have shorter holidays than you.

rainbowtrout

akaredtop wrote: »

I sympathise about the brats in your class. But please don't give us this garbage about being underpaid.You are getting paid 30% more than the teachers in the UK who have shorter holidays than you.

I'm not referring to your underpaid comment, but people in the UK also have a lower cost of living, which is reflected in their minimum wage. I'm sure if the cost of living was higher there they would have higher teaching wages.

amos13

kippy wrote: »

I dont think theres anyone trying to say that the economy is not in trouble. Its been in trouble for a long time and we'll all have to make sacrifices. However you've still not come up with any plausable solutions (I've at least tried myself to give some ideas to you), especially to this endemic "entitlement" you speak so much about.
You've also given away very little about your own situation which in itself is a bit strange.....
I am reporting you for trolling, as I think your lack of actually moving forward with this topic highlights you actual total disregard for trying to do anything constructive to solve the issues you speak of, apart from firing everyone....

Kippy, may I just say, that this is a free speach forum, not a censored forum, and the fact that you have "reported" this person for anything for expression of their opinion is a disgrace, given the fact that you have only reported them for their refusal to fall in line with your way of thinking. There is plenty of people in this country who think that the public service is basically a free-for-all, (backed up by various polls such as those by the irish times) and the teaching profession forms in no way a small part of that. first of all, I find it hard to believe you have ten friends who are teachers, are you hanging around in school canteens or something? or are you an actual teacher yourself, which is the only plausible way you would have so many teacher friends? secondly, Bluesky has very VERY valid points regarding the "entitlement" mentality. Let me elaborate.

My partner previously worked in the public service. His father worked in it until he retired and his sister still does. My friend is a teacher and my best friends boyfriend is a teacher. I myself am 25 and work in the private sector. Do not doubt me when I say, they consistently rib me about the perks that they have and their holiday entitlements, which I do not have. I have no job security in the looming recession, however, they have a "job for life", and receive standard bonuses and raises each year regardless of their performance. My friends who are teachers never, I repeat, NEVER, get home any later than 4 o'clock (the drivel that was being posted earlier about correcting homework etc, that is corrected while the students are doing actual questions, tests etc in school, it is not brought home by the teachers, and I have this information under good authority), whereas I regularly have to work to 7,8, even 9 o'clock to prove my worth to my company. My own teachers striked during my leaving cert, causing so much aggravation among us students, we eventually went on strike ourselves to get the teachers BACK in school, this is vertually unheard of by students! And they were striking because, as my business teacher put it " our union thinks we are entitled to more". Absolutely no consideration of the future of thousands of students about to sit their most important exams so. I did well in my exams, no thanks to the teachers, I taught myself from home. Had to. They weren't around. Oh yes, that brings me to another point. their "entitlement" to 91 sick days a year. bear in mind, they only work 7 months a year, and 91 working days equates into over 4 calender months, which they are "entitled" to take off, leaving 3 months a year in which they can legitimately work and still receive a full years salary which the taxpayer (like myself) foots the bill for. And benchmarking. Don't get me started on benchmarking. can someone tell me first why teachers should be benchmarked and I will give them my honest opinion on their response? I'd love to hear the arguments for this.

amos13

xxmarymoxx wrote: »

if parents are not going to bother about raising there kids why shuould an underpaid overworked teacher have the stress of a couple of brats in their class

Oh please, like the rest of us don't have stress in our jobs. get real. and underpaid and overworked? get a real job and see what underpaid and overworked really is.

amos13

Danno wrote: »

Will the OP have his/her kids well mannered going to school? The majority of parents are to balme for the scumbag kids they allow to grow up beneath them. These untouchable scumbags demoralise the profession and other fellow students. Bring back whacking kids in the class rooms I say, and nope, I'm not a teacher or have any VI in teaching.

What a disgrace, you attack this persons kids because of their parents beliefs? and calling children scumbags that should be whacked? You have a bit of a warped mind. this forum is focussing on overpaid teachers in the public service, not bringing back violence against children by those who by rights have no authority to decide whether they should be smacked or not. Its YOUR children I would feel sorry for.

kippy

amos13 wrote: »

Kippy, may I just say, that this is a free speach forum, not a censored forum, and the fact that you have "reported" this person for anything for expression of their opinion is a disgrace, given the fact that you have only reported them for their refusal to fall in line with your way of thinking. There is plenty of people in this country who think that the public service is basically a free-for-all, (backed up by various polls such as those by the irish times) and the teaching profession forms in no way a small part of that. first of all, I find it hard to believe you have ten friends who are teachers, are you hanging around in school canteens or something? or are you an actual teacher yourself, which is the only plausible way you would have so many teacher friends? secondly, Bluesky has very VERY valid points regarding the "entitlement" mentality. Let me elaborate.

My partner previously worked in the public service. His father worked in it until he retired and his sister still does. My friend is a teacher and my best friends boyfriend is a teacher. I myself am 25 and work in the private sector. Do not doubt me when I say, they consistently rib me about the perks that they have and their holiday entitlements, which I do not have. I have no job security in the looming recession, however, they have a "job for life", and receive standard bonuses and raises each year regardless of their performance. My friends who are teachers never, I repeat, NEVER, get home any later than 4 o'clock (the drivel that was being posted earlier about correcting homework etc, that is corrected while the students are doing actual questions, tests etc in school, it is not brought home by the teachers, and I have this information under good authority), whereas I regularly have to work to 7,8, even 9 o'clock to prove my worth to my company. My own teachers striked during my leaving cert, causing so much aggravation among us students, we eventually went on strike ourselves to get the teachers BACK in school, this is vertually unheard of by students! And they were striking because, as my business teacher put it " our union thinks we are entitled to more". Absolutely no consideration of the future of thousands of students about to sit their most important exams so. I did well in my exams, no thanks to the teachers, I taught myself from home. Had to. They weren't around. Oh yes, that brings me to another point. their "entitlement" to 91 sick days a year. bear in mind, they only work 7 months a year, and 91 working days equates into over 4 calender months, which they are "entitled" to take off, leaving 3 months a year in which they can legitimately work and still receive a full years salary which the taxpayer (like myself) foots the bill for. And benchmarking. Don't get me started on benchmarking. can someone tell me first why teachers should be benchmarked and I will give them my honest opinion on their response? I'd love to hear the arguments for this.

Hi,
And thanks for your well thought out reply.
I have no problems with people expressing opinions that differ from that of my own. But I just want to point out a few things before I get to the jist of what you are saying.

1. Boards.ie is not a "Free Speech" forum. If it were there would be no need for moderators and the general rules that are in force on the site. The place would also probably be a mess. Boards.ie is also responsible for what is posted here. See here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055345592&highlight=free+speech and here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055198036&highlight=free+speech (Theres plenty more example but you get the idea)

2. Have a read of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll . That's why I reported the original poster (not after his original or indeed his first few posts but after a while it became apparent the only thing the person had to offer was to fire all the teachers without actually putting a realistic solution in place to the problem. I myself gave some (what I think are good) solutions to the problems of overspending in the public sector.

3. In hindsight, the OP uses a large number of derogatory terms in his original post which generalise in a big way, teachers and their unions. He called teachers (yes everyone of them) "parasitic whingers", "self regarding, pompous whingers", "paragons of hypocrisy", and "wasters." He called Union representatives "reptiles". That was in the first post. He then goes on to say: "They do not create or generate wealth, they simply consume disproportionate quantity’s of resources. Realistic solutions are appropriate in realistic situations" This is a complete piece of nonsense. Teachers probably generate more indirect wealth than any other profession but its not exactly easy to measure now is it? He also fails to come up with any realistic solutions for the remainder of this posts. I can only assume this is troll like behaviour.

Anyway, the post wasnt close and the user didnt get a warning so I can only assume its not been classed as trolling.

I have ten friends who are teachers because my Fiancee is a teacher, When I started going out with her she was in college with a lot of other primary school teachers to be, I've known them all almost ten years now, from college through a number of varying jobs. I would also know about 4 secondary school teachers so I am aware of the profession and the ups and downs of it.

Bonus' are not rife in the Public service. Increments are. And I do have a problem with this as I've noted in an earlier post.
Have a read of this in relation to sick days for teachers. www.into.ie/descirculars/DESCirculars2005/filedownload,197,en.doc As I think you need to look at the reality of sick leave. In fairness, working with kids of any age would surely increase your chances of getting sick anyway as well as catching the various infestations that a large number of kids suffer from, scabies, nits etc yet despite this the people I know do NOT abuse the sick leave that they are entitled to (I use the word entitled there, as private and public sector workers have entitlements)


And again, as I've stated, the Public sector is not immune from cuts (Job or Salary), I've given examples of where they can be made, but suggesting to fire every teacher is absolutely ludicrous. Suggesting to fire the whole public sector is worse and no one has come on here and given any real solutions to the problem except spout rhetoric and make sweeping generalisations against the Public sector.

There is talk of a 10% pay cut but that in itself has been show to only save the country a very small part of what we actually need to save, it needs to be combined with cost saving across all other areas and not just wages......

And again, if the public service appears to be that good a deal, it would be worth considering a career in it.

Kippy