Prosecution from Torrenting/P2P?

jimi_t

Got in an argument the other night with someone who claimed he knew of people getting warning mails from Irish ISPs as regards copyright infringement, and even someone who had been prosecuted for Bittorrent (who had been using PG2 and mTorrent encryption to boot).

Now the guy I was talking to is a big cisco-certified IT head, but AFAIK this just hasn't happened in Ireland; could someone clarify?

BigEejit

PG2 is not going to give much protection. And encrypting a torrent hides it from the ISP, not from the swarm. So it could be entirely possible that **AA (or their Irish underlings/agents/counterparts) could have the hypothetical persons IP.

jimi_t

Sure, but there's the other issue of them actually doing anything with it. This is one of those great pub arguments where both sides are adamant they're right, but neither has the correlating evidence

(As for PG2, it's certainly better than just using a firewall in that the **AAs shouldn't be able to identify a pattern.)

Sam Vimes

someone i know told me that bt called him and gave him a list of some of the stuff he had downloaded and told him to stop. he may have been lying though

All the encryption in world and any other counter measures are pointless if you use public trackers.

Moriarty

Public or private trackers, it matters little. There's a fair amount of warnings - you'd be surprised how many, considering how some still just dont believe it happens - going out to customers downloading games/films/music (and not just new stuff in case you're thinking that).

jimi_t

Moriarty wrote: »

Public or private trackers, it matters little. There's a fair amount of warnings - you'd be surprised how many, considering how some still just dont believe it happens - going out to customers downloading games/films/music (and not just new stuff in case you're thinking that).

With what ISPs? I know someone who was doing IT support for ICE and Eircom in the last 2-3 years and he reckons that it just wasn't a matter of policy. I've done a fair bit of searching through the times/boards archives and I can't see a single record of prosecution in Ireland for filesharing activities, although there are plenty of people I've met who swear till they're blue in the face that their neighbour/cousin/milkman is a few grand in the hole as a result of Limewire or Kazaa or whatever.

astaro81

jimi_t wrote: »

I've done a fair bit of searching through the times/boards archives and I can't see a single record of prosecution in Ireland for filesharing activities,

I haven't heard of any direct prosecutions yet, but there was that case that IRMA won a while ago,

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/6639.cfm

and this one:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/eircom-may-face-music-in-illegal-files-row-1313154.html

but i kind of more agree with this guy:

http://www.digitalrights.ie/2008/03/11/irma-v-eircom-why-isp-filtering-for-the-music-industry-is-a-bad-idea/

jimi_t

300 odd views later and not a peep regarding any prosecutions in Ireland - we must be just about the only English speaking country to get away with it at this stage.

towel401

i thought the lawsuits were called off a while back. or at least no new ones would be filed

jimi_t

So thats a big resounding no then?

CorkFenian

.

Zab

Moriarty wrote: »

Public or private trackers, it matters little. There's a fair amount of warnings - you'd be surprised how many, considering how some still just dont believe it happens - going out to customers downloading games/films/music (and not just new stuff in case you're thinking that).

Who did these warnings come from? Did they list content?

vibe666

well, if anyone knows anyone on boards.ie who's at least been warned can we get them to post here?

the biggest forum in the country must have at least a couple of people who got letters or warnings of some kind if indeed they have been sent out to anyone.

RangeR

CorkFenian wrote: »

..

The very fact that you are using torrents means that you are uploading..... [99.99999% of the time]

vibe666

IrishTLR wrote: »

The very fact that you are using torrents means that you are uploading..... [99.99999% of the time]

i think he means that it's the original seeder that's being procecuted, not leechers.

Moriarty

Zab wrote: »

Who did these warnings come from? Did they list content?

Companies working on behalf of the copyright holders contact the customer's isp.

It varies from company to company what sort of details are included, but it'll always at least give exact time/date, ip address of the customer who's doing the downloading, name of torrent/download and the contents of the downloaded stuff in question.

techdiver

I think if ISP's enforced this on a large scale they would loose significant business.

For instance, I don't need a 10 Meg connection for browsing the web, I use it for torrent. If that was taken away from me I reduce my subscription to the cheapest available and so would many others.

towel401

techdiver wrote: »

I think if ISP's enforced this on a large scale they would loose significant business.

For instance, I don't need a 10 Meg connection for browsing the web, I use it for torrent. If that was taken away from me I reduce my subscription to the cheapest available and so would many others.

yea. sometimes its better to get the political correctness out of the way and admit thats the main reason why people get these connections

RangeR

towel401 wrote: »

yea. sometimes its better to get the political correctness out of the way and admit thats the main reason why people get these connections

Actually that's a very narrow minded response probably based on your internet usage.

For my part, I have a 20Mb connection. There are a few of us in the house, 3 PC's, a laptop, 2 line VoIP, PS3. All of those devices can put a hefty strain on the internet connection at peak times.

Think outside your box. Not everybody drowns their connections with torrents.

towel401

IrishTLR wrote: »

Actually that's a very narrow minded response probably based on your internet usage.

For my part, I have a 20Mb connection. There are a few of us in the house, 3 PC's, a laptop, 2 line VoIP, PS3. All of those devices can put a hefty strain on the internet connection at peak times.

Think outside your box. Not everybody drowns their connections with torrents.

no some people just get a faster connection so they can get webapps / facebook to run faster. leaving tons of bandwidth they paid for go to waste every month

VoiP only uses about 64kbits or less even. how much upstream you got?

techdiver

IrishTLR wrote: »

Actually that's a very narrow minded response probably based on your internet usage.

For my part, I have a 20Mb connection. There are a few of us in the house, 3 PC's, a laptop, 2 line VoIP, PS3. All of those devices can put a hefty strain on the internet connection at peak times.

Think outside your box. Not everybody drowns their connections with torrents.

Like it or not quite a large amount of Internet usage is torrent related.

Depending on geographical location and whether it is day or night it can range from 15% - 70% of all Internet usage. (http://news.softpedia.com/news/BitTorrent-Represents-The-Internet-64446.shtml).

Fighting Irish

ronoc wrote: »

All the encryption in world and any other counter measures are pointless if you use public trackers.

private trackers are safer?

Zab

Moriarty wrote: »

Companies working on behalf of the copyright holders contact the customer's isp.

It varies from company to company what sort of details are included, but it'll always at least give exact time/date, ip address of the customer who's doing the downloading, name of torrent/download and the contents of the downloaded stuff in question.

Okay, so the company connects to a tracker and gets lists of IPs that have whatever, or use DHT to do the same (or whatever else if we're not talking about torrents). They contact the ISP with the above info, who pass on the warning to you without revealing your identity to the company.

Then your IP changes next time your internet goes down, and the company have no way to connect your new IP with the already warned one? So you get another warning from the ISP, who may well kick you off their network, but seem unlikely at this point to reveal your identity without a court order.

PS: I'm just trying to deal with facts here, I'm not making any moral/ethical statement or suggesting it's safe to download copyright material.

CorkFenian

vibe666 wrote: »

i think he means that it's the original seeder that's being procecuted, not leechers.

Yes I just meant that I have no account created for those sites and never set myself up as original seeder..I should have stated that originally...

johnciall

PPI Have been actively prosecuting people for music filesharing since 2003 My sister used to work there and was telling me about some of the cases back in 03/04

BigEejit

I was reading the other day about a new(ish) political party in Sweden called the Pirate Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party) who seem to be linked to Relakks and The Pirate Bay ... Have a larger following than the Green Party in Sweden

Any chance of Ireland getting a party like that? :pac:

barnicles

BigEejit wrote: »

I was reading the other day about a new(ish) political party in Sweden called the Pirate Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party) who seem to be linked to Relakks and The Pirate Bay ... Have a larger following than the Green Party in Sweden

Any chance of Ireland getting a party like that? :pac:

+1

vibe666

looks like we might be back to newsgroups again.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0128/download.html

In what has been billed as a world first, four music companies and internet server provider Eircom have agreed to work together to end illegal music downloading.

The settlement brought to an end an eight-day trial in which the music companies were suing Eircom as the country's largest internet service provider - over illegal downloading.

The four music companies have agreed to provide Eircom with the IP addresses of internet users detected illegally uploaded or downloading music.



BigEejit wrote: »

I was reading the other day about a new(ish) political party in Sweden called the Pirate Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party) who seem to be linked to Relakks and The Pirate Bay ... Have a larger following than the Green Party in Sweden

Any chance of Ireland getting a party like that? :pac:

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party#International

In 2008, the German Pirate Party became the second Pirate Party to contest an election, in the Hesse state election, 2008, and received 0.3% of valid votes. Additionally, there are discussions on Pirate Party International about forming parties in the Netherlands, Chile, Brazil, Canada, Switzerland, New Zealand, Serbia, Romania, Republic of Ireland and a letter of notification that a party is forming in Peru.

vibe666

vibe666 wrote: »

looks like we might be back to newsgroups again.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0128/download.html

By the time eircom implement this there will be F* all on eircom.


They have a terrible below par service and will now threatening disconnection.

Never saw a reason to leave NGs in the 1st place.