3 Broadband

deepriver

Wanted to comment on my experiences with 3 Mobile Broadband as they have a quite high profile marketing campaign running saying they are cheaper than all the competition...

what they dont actually mention is they have a download cap at 10GB per month which sounds a lot, but works out on average at 330 mb per day, the average internet user would usually surpass this daily allowance, once you go over the cap you are charged 5c per MB.

My 3 broadband bills regulary work out at 75 euro per month, which is well in excess of the competition, this is with out any movie or music download...

in summary...
- forget about downloading music & movies

- expect to pay in excess of 20 per month and up to 75eur

- very poor customer care from a call centre in India somewhere (dunno about anyone else but I find these guys very ignorant)

- network speed & coverage good (considering its mobile)

BNC

Have a read of this...;)

Three Mobile Broadband -THE PROBLEMS M-M-MEGATHREAD!

TouchingVirus

I believe their advertisements mention terms & conditions - well those are the terms and the conditions

And you clearly aren't just a 'normal' internet user if you manage to chomp up 330mb per day, I assume normal means somebody who just checks their email and browses sites like boards, wikipedia & whatever, not somebody who looks at 500 youtube videos per day..

I've gotten by on less than 120mb traffic per day and spending 16 hours a day on the internet (work ..pfft).

Cabaal

This is old news about Three
Read the Megathread...

Sam Vimes

deepriver wrote: »

what they dont actually mention is they have a download cap at 10GB per month which sounds a lot, but works out on average at 330 mb per day

now i'd never want anyone to think that i'm a defender of 3 but to be fair to them that's hardly hidden. i found this page in less than two seconds, you can get to it by clicking the massive picture on the home page (the lonely laptop one)
http://three.ie/broadband/paymonthly.htm

deepriver

the advertisement (in todays Metro) does not mention the 10GB cap in the small print!! :P I guess they use the same advert in all press?

"service conditions apply" or something similar it says..

I dont say they hide it, and they are quite forthcoming about the cap in the highstreet stores.. but I feel they're advertising is misleading as they say they are cheaper than their competitors, however to my knowledge not one of their competitors charges 5c per MB after 10GB per month

deepriver

BNC wrote: »

Have a read of this...;)

Three Mobile Broadband -THE PROBLEMS M-M-MEGATHREAD!

yep tis all there!

BNC

deepriver wrote: »

the advertisement (in todays Metro) does not mention the 10GB cap in the small print!! :P I guess they use the same advert in all press?

"service conditions apply" or something similar it says..

I dont say they hide it, and they are quite forthcoming about the cap in the highstreet stores.. but I feel they're advertising is misleading as they say they are cheaper than their competitors, however to my knowledge not one of their competitors charges 5c per MB after 10GB per month

I think the cap is a bit pf a joke but a quick check of the Vodafone offering shows that they charge 2c per MB after you reach their 5GB cap and thats 29.99pm.

I feel for you that 3 is your only option but you'd want to be using it a huge a mount to reach the 10GB cap.

Cabaal

deepriver wrote: »

the advertisement (in todays Metro) does not mention the 10GB cap in the small print!! :P I guess they use the same advert in all press?

"service conditions apply" or something similar it says..

I dont say they hide it, and they are quite forthcoming about the cap in the highstreet stores.. but I feel they're advertising is misleading as they say they are cheaper than their competitors, however to my knowledge not one of their competitors charges 5c per MB after 10GB per month

All other Midband providers have a FUP where they'll terminate your a/c or charge you if you go over the "cap". saying there's T&C's in the small print is enough to cover Three or any company for that matter.

It is the consumer responsibility to read all and any T&C's for ANY contracted service they are agreeing to, if they do not then its 100% their fault and I have no pity for them.

While I am also not defending Three it is very clear they have a 10GB cap and its clear the OP didn't even read anything before signing up if this came as a shock.

Cabaal

BNC wrote: »

I think the cap is a bit pf a joke but a quick check of the Vodafone offering shows that they charge 2c per MB after you reach their 5GB cap and thats 29.99pm.

Its worth noting that even many ADSL Broadband suppliers in both Ireland and the UK have smaller caps then 10GB, anything from 1GB to 6 or 8GB a month.

Same goes for so called mobile providers.

MFeehan

People are idiots, 3 broadband, Vodafone broadband, & o2 broadband ARE NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR HOME BROADBAND. They are to be used as broadband on the go, hence the name, MOBILE BROADBAND.

tony1kenobi

deepriver wrote: »

however to my knowledge not one of their competitors charges 5c per MB after 10GB per month

Someone already covered vodafone so.......o2 will clip your connection at 7.5gb and give you one option only. Bump up to unlimited usage for 60+ quid a month, or continue paying 25 quid a month with NO usage until your contract expires.

If you don't have a performance issue with 3 I'd say be happy with what you have got.

deepriver

MFeehan wrote: »

People are idiots, 3 broadband, Vodafone broadband, & o2 broadband ARE NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR HOME BROADBAND. They are to be used as broadband on the go, hence the name, MOBILE BROADBAND.

well given Ireland has one of the lowest broadband penetration rates in the developed world, I would actually say the opposite, mobile broadband is a substitute for home broadband

deepriver

Cabaal wrote: »

Its worth noting that even many ADSL Broadband suppliers in both Ireland and the UK have smaller caps then 10GB, anything from 1GB to 6 or 8GB a month.

Same goes for so called mobile providers.

agreed but my point is more about 3's marketing campaign

they say 'join our broadband network because its cheaper than eircom & co'

so THEY are making the comparison with home broadband providers

but if you look at the typical usage of an internet user, they will be downloading films & music via torrents, looking at videos etc and will greatly exceed the 10GB monthly cap (330 MB per day on average)

so if you end up paying on average 50 eur per month, thats 600 eur per year. Perlico are offering 9eur per month broadband & NTL 20 eur (I think) with no chargeable caps

So for example when I had NTL broadband I regularly downloaded up to 80GB per month, but didnt have to pay extra, they just asked me to reduce my usage

Ironically I heard 3's add on the radio now where they say and I quote

'no hidden extras under the surface'

Very disingenuis, compared to home broadband (and they are putting themselves in this market) they are very very expensive

BNC

deepriver wrote: »

Perlico are offering 9eur per month broadband & NTL 20 eur (I think) with no chargeable caps

'no hidden extras under the surface'

Very disingenuis, compared to home broadband (and they are putting themselves in this market) they are very very expensive

You haven't included the line rental from Perlico for broadband, it works out at €42.34pm for the basic product and NTL(UPC) wont supply basic broadband on its own it needs to be in a bundle with their phone service.

In relation to the "no hidden extras.." they do point this out when you go to sign up.

I agree though they are comparing themselves to fixed line broadband when in fact hey aren't.

jor el

deepriver wrote: »

well given Ireland has one of the lowest broadband penetration rates in the developed world, I would actually say the opposite, mobile broadband is a substitute for home broadband

No, it isn't. The fact that we have poor uptake, and in a lot of cases, poor availability, is no reason to call mobile "broadband" a usable alternative to real broadband. Mobile "broadband" shouldn't even be called broadband, it's closer to a midband product, in reality. It is very good, and useful, when used for what it is, and that's a complimentary service to fixed line or wireless broadband, for those who need mobility. It should never be used as home broadband.

Unfortunately, a lot of people have no choice in the matter, and 3G is the only Internet access (bar dial-up) that's available.

If Eamon Lyan had any morals at all, he'd stop pushing it as a real broadband service, but his makey upey statistics would take quite a battering if he did.

deepriver

ok fair enough, I think the price works out about the same then for both NTL & 3 services including all costs and based on typical usage patters

and unless you want broadband on the move, NTL home is vastly superior

which also negates 3's claim of being cheaper than 'home' broadband

but it would be nice if they raised the 10BG cap

eth0_

3 isn't aimed at 'serious' internet users...it's for people who just want to check their emails and browse a few webpages without getting a phoneline in, or those who travel a lot.

Same with all the mobile broadband offerings..

deepriver

jor el wrote: »

No, it isn't. The fact that we have poor uptake, and in a lot of cases, poor availability, is no reason to call mobile "broadband" a usable alternative to real broadband. Mobile "broadband" shouldn't even be called broadband, it's closer to a midband product, in reality. It is very good, and useful, when used for what it is, and that's a complimentary service to fixed line or wireless broadband, for those who need mobility. It should never be used as home broadband.

Unfortunately, a lot of people have no choice in the matter, and 3G is the only Internet access (bar dial-up) that's available.

If Eamon Lyan had any morals at all, he'd stop pushing it as a real broadband service, but his makey upey statistics would take quite a battering if he did.

3 make the comparison to home in their product marketing

Ireland has very poor penetration rates in rural areas and in these scenarios I believe 3 is a very real & useful substitute

also they claim network speeds up to 5-6MPS which is on a par or higher than standard home broadband packages

I think you assert they are not providing a 'home' broadband package because of the 10GB cap?

niallb

deepriver wrote: »

what they dont actually mention is they have a download cap at 10GB per month which sounds a lot, but works out on average at 330 mb per day, the average internet user would usually surpass this daily allowance, once you go over the cap you are charged 5c per MB.

Actually, the average internet user doesn't use anywhere near that much a day.
For every group of users - such as power users on Boards Broadband forum - who download movies, there are countless others who only check their mail and browse a few web pages, and may not even do that every day.

Your usage may be average within your group, but the group is not itself average.

jor el

deepriver wrote: »

3 make the comparison to home in their product marketing

Yes, they do, but they shouldn't be allowed to.

deepriver wrote: »

I think you assert they are not providing a 'home' broadband package because of the 10GB cap?

No. Three (and O2, Vodafone and Meteor) do not provide broadband, simple as that. It should not be targeted at a home market, nor as an alternative to fixed line/wireless broadband. It's simply not suitable, and anyone who buys it thinking it is, is fooling themselves, or has no other option, and is getting desperate.

The 10G cap is low, but for 20euro a month, fairly acceptable. I have O2, with a 10G cap, and it's always been fine. But I also have home DSL, unlimited, and the O2 mobile simple operates as an on-the-move Internet connection solution. This is how it should work.

deepriver

jor el wrote: »

Yes, they do, but they shouldn't be allowed to.



No. Three (and O2, Vodafone and Meteor) do not provide broadband, simple as that. It should not be targeted at a home market, nor as an alternative to fixed line/wireless broadband. It's simply not suitable, and anyone who buys it thinking it is, is fooling themselves, or has no other option, and is getting desperate.

The 10G cap is low, but for 20euro a month, fairly acceptable. I have O2, with a 10G cap, and it's always been fine. But I also have home DSL, unlimited, and the O2 mobile simple operates as an on-the-move Internet connection solution. This is how it should work.

I agree they should be held up on their claim they offer a similar service to home broadband and at cheaper rates because a) you cant run data download software on their network unlike home and b) their prices are similar or higher than home

if they lifted the charged cap then I believe they could claim a similar product to home & also genuinely claim they are cheaper

jor el

eth0_ wrote: »

3 isn't aimed at 'serious' internet users...

True, but Three do seem to market it as such, and people who don't read the Ts&Cs (pretty much everyone) will get caught out thinking it's going to be the exact same as their cable/DSL, at a cheaper price. Which it most certainly isn't.


If your requirements are any of the following:

Films/TV
Gaming
Anything to do with Xbox360/PS3
VOIP
Large CD/DVD images uploading/downloading (possibly some sort of backup solution)
P2P

Then forget 3G, it's not for you.

If you want to pick up emails, browse the web, maybe the odd TV/Film, and have no phone line and no cable/FWA option, then for 20-30euro a month, it's probably a good solution.

Cabaal

deepriver wrote: »

3 make the comparison to home in their product marketing

Ireland has very poor penetration rates in rural areas and in these scenarios I believe 3 is a very real & useful substitute

Please tell me how it is,
- Unsuitable when the cell becomes overused which has happened in most of Ireland based on consumer reports
- Not suitable in anyway for on-line gaming, one of the main selling points for Broadband
- Not suitable for proper P2P use, yes there are legit uses of this
- Not suitable in anyway for VoIP use

Its not Broadband, its Midband....its just a little bit better then ISDN in alot of cases and can not in anyway be compared to ADSL or cable services available anywhere in Europe

Cabaal

deepriver wrote: »

agreed but my point is more about 3's marketing campaign

they say 'join our broadband network because its cheaper than eircom & co'

so THEY are making the comparison with home broadband providers

Yes they are but they also advise

3 service is subject to service limitations and terms & conditions.

as outlined here http://three.ie/broadband/compare.htm

but if you look at the typical usage of an internet user, they will be downloading films & music via torrents, looking at videos etc and will greatly exceed the 10GB monthly cap (330 MB per day on average)

so if you end up paying on average 50 eur per month, thats 600 eur per year. Perlico are offering 9eur per month broadband & NTL 20 eur (I think) with no chargeable caps

So for example when I had NTL broadband I regularly downloaded up to 80GB per month, but didnt have to pay extra, they just asked me to reduce my usage

I was waiting for somebody to start going into caps,
so lets talk about caps shall we

Remember that for all ADSL providers that PSTN line rental of 25e is a requirement to get ADSL, it may be an extra or included in the price

Eircom - eircom.net/broadband
package of 60e - Download allowance of 50GB
50e package - Download allowance of 30GB
65e package - Download allowance of 50GB
55e package - Download allowance of 30GB
45e package - Download allowance of 10GB
55e 1MB package - Download allowance of 10GB



Lets talk about BT - http://www.btireland.ie/AtHome_bb_totaltalk.shtml
48e package - upto 10GB cap
56e package upto 30GB cap
67e package Unlimited but comes with Fair Usage Policy which many users report is about 70-90GB before they throttle you like mad


Lets Talk UTV - http://www4.u.tv/UTV_Internet/Residential/ClicksilverBroadband/index.asp
45e Upto 1MB package - 6GB cap
49e upto 3MB package - 12GB cap
56e upto 7MB package - 20GB cap



Lets talk NTL - http://www.upc.ie/internet/
24e 1MB package - 5GB cap
22e 3MB package - 20GB cap
32e 10MB package - fair usage
same for 20MB package

In relation to UPC customers, I can tell you for a fact that UPC customers in the past have had their accounts terminated for over usage of there service, many more customers have received cut-off warnings.


So if you look across all the ADSL providers in Ireland you'll see that the low end product at around 20e comes with a very small cap in pretty much 98% of cases.

If you look at Three sites they compare to ADSL providers only and NOT upc like you have...please compare like Three have after all...see - http://three.ie/broadband/compare.htm

So I believe its a pretty fair comparison as there cap is pretty competitive for the price of the package they are advertising, speed wise Three is nothing like ADSL or cable and should not be used as a replacement for ADSL or cable as highlighted in my other post about VoIP etc but cap wise the comparison is very fair.

Now as for typical internet user usage, I can tell you from personal experience in the industry that 80GB a month is really not the typical usage for the average joe user. typical usage is instead between 1-8GB a month for the average home Broadband user.

Just because you download 50GB a month doesn't make it normal

Ironically I heard 3's add on the radio now where they say and I quote

'no hidden extras under the surface'

Very disingenuis, compared to home broadband (and they are putting themselves in this market) they are very very expensive

Which is basically correct, once you stay within the contracted cap of 10GB which you agreed to there is no extras.


I'm not defending Three I personally wouldn't touch any of there midband products as I wouldn't trust the service for my requirements but I am simply showing that your comparison and lack of reading contracts before signing up is merely the issue here and not three's cap or price like you are making out

Hope that helps clarify a few things..

Cabaal

Cabaal

deepriver wrote: »

I agree they should be held up on their claim they offer a similar service to home broadband and at cheaper rates because a) you cant run data download software on their network unlike home and b) their prices are similar or higher than home

if they lifted the charged cap then I believe they could claim a similar product to home & also genuinely claim they are cheaper

They don't need to lift any cap, lets remember that UTV, BT, Eircom, Perlico all reserve the right to charge there users for going over the set cap they offer as part of there packages.

Your welcome to read there T&C's if you wish to confirm this

The only issue here is that Three are comparing there Midband product to Broadband when they are not the same thing, but thats an issue for the ASAI (asai.ie) which I'm sure has been brought up with them before and nothing has happened.

However until something does happen Three can legally advertise in this way even if myself and many others do not agree with them comparing Midband to Broadband, but as myself and jor el and others have said the cap is fair and pretty competitive within this market for the price its offered at.

cabaal,

deepriver

maybe I should clarify I was aware of the 10GB cap before I signed the contract

Cabaal the data caps you refer to there are theoretical... ie you dont get charged for breaking the cap with NTL / Eircom etc but if you consistently break it they will terminate the account (which is fair enough)

so the point is 3 compare themselves in terms of price to home broadband packages but really shouldnt as a typical user will incurr additional over cap data charges

deepriver

Cabaal wrote: »

They don't need to lift any cap, lets remember that UTV, BT, Eircom, Perlico all reserve the right to charge there users for going over the set cap they offer as part of there packages.


cabaal,

but they dont... where as 3 ruthlessly do.. and probable have a business case around it

Cabaal

deepriver wrote: »

maybe I should clarify I was aware of the 10GB cap before I signed the contract

Cabaal the data caps you refer to there are theoretical... ie you dont get charged for breaking the cap with NTL / Eircom etc but if you consistently break it they will terminate the account (which is fair enough)

so the point is 3 compare themselves in terms of price to home broadband packages but really shouldnt as a typical user will incurr additional over cap data charges

They are not theoretical they are legally part of the contract, if a user agrees to a 20GB cap and breaks it once Eircom have the legal right to charge that user it does not matter if they did not charge for the previous 6 months,

At the end of the day if you have a package with a 20GB cap and you go to 21GB one month and eircom charge you the 35e or so you have no leg to stand on legally and you have nobody to blame but yourself for not using there usage tracker.

The fact that Three choose to charge users is there decision and there is nothing wrong with this in anyway, if a user signs up to a service agrees to the contract and is aware of the cap/charges but just believes they will not be charged then the customer is very much 100% in the wrong for assuming otherwise.

Your trying to fight an argument you can't win, you were in the wrong and you have to learn from it pay the piper and stop assuming stuff in future and read any contracts your agreeing to.

education about such things is your best friend.

deepriver wrote: »

but they dont... where as 3 ruthlessly do.. and probable have a business case around it

In relation to your comments that UTV, BT, Eircom and Perlico do not charge, Again I can tell you users have reported charges from Perlico and UTV and even BT and Eircom a few years back.

Your welcome to sign up to UTV and go over there cap and see if they charge you, my bets is they will unless you pay them extra for the fair usage add-on

Three are not ruthless, they are simply a business like any other in it to make money,

Cabaal,

deepriver

Cabaal wrote: »

They are not theoretical they are legally part of the contract, if a user agrees to a 20GB cap and breaks it once Eircom have the legal right to charge that user it does not matter if they did not charge for the previous 6 months,

At the end of the day if you have a package with a 20GB cap and you go to 21GB one month and eircom charge you the 35e or so you have no leg to stand on legally and you have nobody to blame but yourself for not using there usage tracker.

The fact that Three choose to charge users is there decision and there is nothing wrong with this in anyway, if a user signs up to a service agrees to the contract and is aware of the cap/charges but just believes they will not be charged then the customer is very much 100% in the wrong for assuming otherwise.

Your trying to fight an argument you can't win, you were in the wrong and you have to learn from it pay the piper and stop assuming stuff in future and read any contracts your agreeing to.

education about such things is your best friend.





In relation to your comments that UTV, BT, Eircom and Perlico do not charge, Again I can tell you users have reported charges from Perlico and UTV and even BT and Eircom a few years back.

Your welcome to sign up to UTV and go over there cap and see if they charge you, my bets is they will unless you pay them extra for the fair usage add-on

Three are not ruthless, they are simply a business like any other in it to make money,

Cabaal,

when I saw your 'moderator' signature I thought you might have a rational input into this debate, but you seem to be going on an endless rant adn not reading the preceding posts

just for the record I never referred to UTV or BT directly you brought them up

I stand over the point, with Eircom and NTL (for example) its a theoretical cap in so much as they dont enforce it and it is designed to prevent over-usage rather than profit from it, can you give me an example of someone who has been charged for breaking a home broadband cap?

I can give you several examples of 3 charging... and thats my entire point, they work out more expensive (IMO) than home providers yet their advertising is based around the premise they are cheaper

Cabaal

deepriver wrote: »

when I saw your 'moderator' signature I thought you might have a rational input into this debate, but you seem to be going on an endless rant adn not reading the preceding posts

just for the record I never referred to UTV or BT directly you brought them up

I stand over the point, with Eircom and NTL (for example) its a theoretical cap in so much as they dont enforce it and it is designed to prevent over-usage rather than profit from it, can you give me an example of someone who has been charged for breaking a home broadband cap?

I can give you several examples of 3 charging... and thats my entire point, they work out more expensive (IMO) than home providers yet their advertising is based around the premise they are cheaper

The fact I am a Mod has nothing to do with anything, on this forum I am a normal user as I do not mod this forum,

Your comparing ADSL providers, of which UTV and Perlico are and are known to charge for going over caps.

The fact it suits you to mention two companys (one of which is not an ADSL provider) that happen to reserve the right to charge but don't is beside the point, Three reserve the right and do so and are doing nothing wrong....if you 100% believe they are then attempt to take legal action against them you will not succeed.


Bottom line is you assumed Three did not charge, is this correct?