How about Lidl ripoff

MaxFlower

@ntlbell

If you don't consider 4x the price for the same item a rip-off, fair play to you.
BTW Less of the abuse would be appreciated. Having an opinion contrary to your own is neither stupid nor moronic - you just don't agree with it

ntlbell

MaxFlower wrote: »

@ntlbell

If you don't consider 4x the price for the same item a rip-off, fair play to you.
BTW Less of the abuse would be appreciated. Having an opinion contrary to your own is neither stupid nor moronic - you just don't agree with it

It has nothing to do with disagreeing with me, calling people VI's who are trying to be rational and fair is moronic.

plus an important part that you keep missing

XE's rate is NOT the rate you get at the bank and more than likley not the rate you get at the lidl till.

If you take AIB's or boi's rate the price difference is under 4 euro how does that equal a 4X price difference?

if you take the rate of a month or two ago it's about 2euro difference at the rate of the bank NOT xe as xe is NOT the rate you get.

see?

this is not very complicated really.

Anan

It all depends on what the baseline is. If the highest price is the baseline ( ROI) then the NI price is a bargain. If the lowest price (NI) is the baseline, then ROI is a rip-off.

I know we are not comparing apples with apples etc. but the Average Joe in the street will only see the difference in price and will not understand how the business is run.

Le us say there are two shops in Dublin. Shop A charging 1.60 for a specific brand of 2 litre of milk and shop B charging 2.25 for the same brand. Will you call the shop B price a rip-off ? Will the same argument of - Each business is different not be valid then?

Maybe the guy who is charging 2.25 is paying higher wages... Maybe his refrigerator which is storing the milk is consuming more electricity... Maybe the guy who delivers milk to the shop does it at 2:00 A.M. in the middle of the night and is paid double his wages as overtime... Maybe the lease to the shop was much higher.. Maybe the management was downright inefficient in sourcing their items cheaper.... You could go on. But if a common shopper sees this price difference in the shelf, he will not try and make an effort to understand the issues behind this business and appreciate the higher price. He is going to call it a rip-off.

Of course Business B is not cheating. They have clearly said that Milk in their shop costs 2.25. It is displayed in the shelf and you are well aware of it and you are not forced to buy. You can walk out and go elsewhere and buy the milk ( At a BARGAIN price of 1.60 :rolleyes: )

Certainly there would be differences between each and every business. And so will be differences due to the other factors due to their location and country.

What percentage of cost between NI and ROI would you coniser as normal and above what percentage would you consider this a rip-off ?

Lplated

rubadub wrote: »

I do not think that means the same as the previous quote though. I am not familiar enough with economic terms, but I presume "cost base", and "price of goods" are different things.

I find it really puzzling since if this was the case surely retailers in the north and UK would be selling up and opening up here, if it really was so good.

I assume you're being sarcastic? How many possible ways could you interpret the line

"Our analysis highlights that higher operating costs in Ireland add approximately 5-6 percent to the total cost base of retailers in Dublin versus those operating in Belfast"

It would seem to suggest to me that the higher costs here add 5 to 6% to the overall costs of products being sold in Dublin as against in Belfast.

I'm unsure what is meant by your last paragraph - a significant number of retailers operate both sides of the border, giving rise to a lot of heat about the different prices in both.

MaxFlower

ntlbell wrote: »

It has nothing to do with disagreeing with me, calling people VI's who are trying to be rational and fair is moronic..

I haven't called anyone a VI.

ntlbell wrote: »

plus an important part that you keep missing. XE's rate is NOT the rate you get at the bank and more than likely not the rate you get at the lidl till.

I said nothing about Xe.com or AIB

ntlbell wrote: »

If you take AIB's or boi's rate the price difference is under 4 euro how does that equal a 4X price difference?

The 4X price difference I am talking about related to an item I bought.

ntlbell wrote: »

see? this is not very complicated really.

Either is reading my posts and not misquoting me

noodler

If we were in the North and we were finding cheaper prices in mainland Britain on the web then the OP's argument would make alot more sense.

Do you know what the minimum wage is in Britain by any chance? Compared to Ireland? Of course we all know the near 7% difference in VAT as well.
Economies of scale is also rather obvious, 5 million in ROI or 60m in the UK.

Now obviously when all this is taken into account we would still have slightly higher prices its just nowhere near as high as it appears on the face.

NI is an anomaly. It is tough for UK companies to keep prices their as low as they are in mainland Britain but they have to because it is part of the UK. Retailers don't have to artificially lower our prices and DO take the higher costs etc into account.

rubadub

Lplated wrote: »

I assume you're being sarcastic? How many possible ways could you interpret the line

"Our analysis highlights that higher operating costs in Ireland add approximately 5-6 percent to the total cost base of retailers in Dublin versus those operating in Belfast"

It would seem to suggest to me that the higher costs here add 5 to 6% to the overall costs of products being sold in Dublin as against in Belfast.

No I am not being sarcastic. I do not know what "cost base" means, maybe somebody familiar with economic terms does.

In full again it says

While operating costs are on average 25 percent higher in Dublin than in Belfast, they account for a relatively small share of total costs (circa 20-25%). Our analysis highlights that higher operating costs in Ireland add
approximately 5-6 percent to the total cost base of retailers in Dublin versus those operating in Belfast.

The way I read that is that the operating cost of keeping a shop open is 25% higher in dublin, but this is only 20-25% of total costs. So in total a shop in dublin being open is only 5-6% more than in belfast. No mention of the cost of a good.

Have they mentioned anything else? I do not see them mentioning how much it costs the customer to get something. e.g. there was a thread on a Wii a few days ago, saying it was cheaper up north. The dublin shop might cost 5-6% more to stay open. BUT they are paying for the goods as set by nintendo, which has a higher RRP and so I presume a higher wholesale price here. Then we have higher VAT on top of that too. So the customers price here is higher on 3 counts, the running of the shop, the higher wholesale price, and the higher VAT.

I am sure plenty of other global brands have varying wholesale prices like this, e.g. coke, ipods, cadburys etc.

Lplated wrote: »

I'm unsure what is meant by your last paragraph - a significant number of retailers operate both sides of the border, giving rise to a lot of heat about the different prices in both.

My last line "I find it really puzzling since if this was the case surely retailers in the north and UK would be selling up and opening up here, if it really was so good."

Is that in all these threads people seem to think Irish retailers are raking it in big time, fleecing people and getting away with it. So why not give up the day job and open a retail store if they really have it so good? Why are independent northern retailers not selling up and flocking down here if it is really such a golden goose. I just don't think retailers here are making as much as people think.

luckat

Yes, it's a rip-off.

Incidentally, the higher-VAT article is used for plenty of items which don't carry VAT, though this isn't one of those cases.

But that price differential - what kind of fools do they think we are? It just shows an utter lack of respect for their Irish customers.

Lplated

rubadub wrote: »

No I am not being sarcastic.

I must have misread the tone of your post.

In a way, the Forfas report is irrelevant. People can see how much cheaper it is to shop in the North (or New York, or online). A significant proportion of us seem to have made the choice to shop around and get the best value we can for our euro.

Retailers attempts to explain price differences, nor this report which casts severe doubt over their explanations, do not alter the reality, that people can achieve savings by shopping elsewhere.

When things ran well for us, we didn't seem to care too much about value, but that has changed. My guess is that while people generally might 'care' about whether they were/are being ripped off or not, it won't alter their search for value.

DanGlee

Off Topic... But between the three pages I just read, thats the best economics lesson I've ever had, beats anything they can teach you at school.

(Not being sarcastic either.)

Not going to comment on the price difference. I'm a non national (English) living in Ireland for 8 years and I'm always heading home to UK and I find myself getting sucked into the trap of buying things cos they seem cheaper, but when the credit card bill comes in, its generally within a couple of percent of a difference, not factoring in the cost of travel etc (but you can't put a cost on the price of seeing you mammy once in a while )

My 2 cent on this is, if you want a bargain... buy it on the interweb. Even with P+P you'll always save a little, not only on cost of goods, but petrol, shoe leather, etc... and you can do it from the comform of your own home.

ntlbell

luckat wrote: »

Yes, it's a rip-off.

Incidentally, the higher-VAT article is used for plenty of items which don't carry VAT, though this isn't one of those cases.

But that price differential - what kind of fools do they think we are? It just shows an utter lack of respect for their Irish customers.

Yes no respect what so ever they beat tesco,superquinn and dunnes in just about every single department....the neck of them coming to our country and giving us great value for money and forcing others to advertise when they can even "match" them on somethings that are not even of the same quality

omg a 2e price difference in a different country on a toaster where wages are lower,vat is lower,insurance is lower, rent is lower _everything_ is lower

off with their heads!

parsi

Can we get back down to brass tacks ?

Is the toaster anygood ?

sham69

More importantly , how many slices can it toast and have the speeds at which it toasts been compared between the one in Dublin and the one in Newry...

Sorry bad joke, just trying to lighten the mood.

ntlbell

sham69 wrote: »

More importantly , how many slices can it toast and have the speeds at which it toasts been compared between the one in Dublin and the one in Newry...

Sorry bad joke, just trying to lighten the mood.

even more importantly

does it have a make the second batch of toast taste nicer?

that i would be pay an extra 8 euro for

partyguinness

For Christmas I bought my mother this Molton Brown box thing in England (House of Fraiser) for £34.00 (which we will say is about €40.00)

The same thing costs €84.00 in Brown Thomas in Cork....:eek:

More than double the price. Incidently I did all my Xmas shopping in England this year and I dont feel one bit guilty about it..so there...

Hagar

I don't think that either Lidl or Aldi are British companies. Both their HQs are in the Eurozone afaik and most of the products they sell are sourced in the Eurozone so they were never paid for in Sterling in the first place. FX doesn't really come in to it. The number of staff in these stores is down to the barest minimum so difference in wages isn't as significant as people are making out. VAT differences are only a couple of percent. It's hard to justify the price differences.

partyguinness

I believe they are German companies.

Guy:Incognito

partyguinness wrote: »

For Christmas I bought my mother this Molton Brown box thing in England (House of Fraiser) for £34.00 (which we will say is about €40.00)

The same thing costs €84.00 in Brown Thomas in Cork....:eek:

More than double the price. Incidently I did all my Xmas shopping in England this year and I dont feel one bit guilty about it..so there...

Did you try getting it (or at leats not pickign the dearest shop in the country for comparison) in a shop that doesnt exist solely to cater for people who have too much money to bother looking at prices.

partyguinness

Stekelly wrote: »

Did you try getting it (or at leats not pickign the dearest shop in the country for comparison) in a shop that doesnt exist solely to cater for people who have too much money to bother looking at prices.

I wasnt actively looking to compare. I just happen to be walking through the make up department and there was a big stand advertising the same products so naturally I looked (after I had bought it England) plus I understand (although open to correction) that Brown Thomas is the only stockist of this product in Ireland. Which makes sense considering the doubling of prices.

Mal-Adjusted

usually, they will up their price by about a third from their european stores (or at least their italian stores, which iv'e checked)

Bruce2008

Has anybody seen this weeks Lidl offers???

okay I understand difference in base costs...minimum wages....exchange rates.... etc etc.... BUT....wait for this.....

A 'Parkside Planer' costs £24.99 and a 'Parkside Battery Drill' costs £29.99 in Northern Ireland.....(the Drill is dearer than the Planer)

But drop down south and suddenly the 'Planer' costs 49.99euro and the 'Drill' costs 39.99euro...(now the Planer is dearer than the Drill!!!)

Both are from the same manufacturer and I would consider them to be of the same 'type' product...ie DIY...

I have confirmed the prices with Lidl....they are correct....they are to get back to me tommorrow with a possible explaination...I can hardly wait....

Checked spanish website and the drill is dearer than the planer....as it is in the north....so what is the possible explaination....answers on the back of a Lidl broucher please.....

rubadub

Bruce2008 wrote: »

.so what is the possible explaination.

maybe they simply think people will pay more for one over the other here, maybe they went to Irish owned stores and saw what customers were paying for similar planers so reckon they can get the same. They are just maximising their profits like the majority of businesses do.

I don't see much point in looking up prices in other countries if you have no intention of going there. If they were online stores grand, or if you were really willing to go up north or spain to buy a toaster then fine. But otherwise I would be comparing prices with other Irish stores, why waste time looking at lidls prices around the EU. If you think it is good value then buy it or don't.

Now what if the toaster was €100 here, and £200 up north, I suppose someone might snap it up and call it a bargain!

sceptre

Stekelly wrote: »

Did you try getting it (or at leats not pickign the dearest shop in the country for comparison) in a shop that doesnt exist solely to cater for people who have too much money to bother looking at prices.

In fairness, House of Fraser isn't exactly at the bottom end of the market either.