Little grey fergie

JohnBoy

Just said I'd post up some details of my new tractor.

I swapped a ford twosix for it and I have to say both parties were happy with the deal.



it needs a few small jobs doing to it to get it in the condition I want.

ie battery, leads, alternator, glow plug wiring a roll bar and some linkage bits. I have 95% of the parts gathered and hope to get it sorted soon.

longer term it needs wings, a grille, some patching on the bonnet sides and new front wheels and tyres.

I'll just be using it around the yard/garden.

red menace

Looks in good nick, well you may wear
Is she diesel or tvo?
BTW is that a davey brown behind?

JohnBoy

4 cylinder diesel TEF

the tractor behind is my dad's 135 I had on loan for a bit

reilig

JohnBoy wrote: »

Just said I'd post up some details of my new tractor.

I swapped a ford twosix for it and I have to say both parties were happy with the deal.



it needs a few small jobs doing to it to get it in the condition I want.

ie battery, leads, alternator, glow plug wiring a roll bar and some linkage bits. I have 95% of the parts gathered and hope to get it sorted soon.

longer term it needs wings, a grille, some patching on the bonnet sides and new front wheels and tyres.

I'll just be using it around the yard/garden.

She's a babe. And she has an old Blackstone Raker seat on it. We used to have one just like it. Sadly we sold it in about 1990 when there was no value placed on them. I intend buying one back one day and doin her up. I think its fair to say that the 20 changed the way we farmed in Ireland after World War 2. They were the next step after the horse, many people around here used them to work horse implements like pulling adapted horse mowing machines, horse ploughs, tedders and rakers.

It'll be perfect for light work around the house.

Best of luck with her.

marlyman

put footboards on it too. itm akes mounting and dismounting easier.

JohnBoy

marlyman wrote: »

put footboards on it too. itm akes mounting and dismounting easier.

aye, they're on the shopping list alright

Vegeta

My brother is currently helping a mate of his restore a 20 and a 35(I think, the one with red mud guards and bonnet)

Its turning out a lovley machine

cool to see other folks are at this too

marlyman

if you think thats rough check this out. its a 135 pulled from the sea. no lift cover, rust eating in everywhere, wasn't running unsurprisingly. do you like the dynamo? i love restoring tractors and there loads of this going on all around the country.

emaherx

Here is my work in progress.

Before

JohnBoy

Been doing some small jobs to this,

I'm not bothered about originality, just functionality.

The lift arms were in bits so i splashed out on new ones and some pins and bits


The original battery wiring was practically non-existant. the negative battery clamp was a vise grips (not supplied) So I ran new 40mm2 cables up to the starter, makes a big difference but Im still not happy. I got a new battery for it but it seems to hold feck all charge, I get two or three starts out of it, and the tractor starts in about 10 seconds. Id try and take it back but I'm not sure they'll be too impressed with the chunk I blew out of the terminal when I hooked jump leads up the wrong way round....




The front tyres were in a pretty poor state, and one of the tubes was wrecked too, the rims were shot as well, one of em had no lip on it and both of em had corrosion around the valve holes twice the size of the original hole (which is what had destroyed the tube) So i replaced the lot, not the correct original size admittedly but a whole lot cheaper. 2 wheels, tubes and tyres for €145 all in.





Went to actually try and do some work with it yesterday but the damm lift arms are stuck in the raised position. could be dirty oil (it's manky ancient gear oil mayonaise) or a stuck control valve seemingly. So i need to drain the back end, open the inspection plate and give it a wash with some diesel and then refill it with 60 or 70 euros worth of oil and cross everything.

marlyman

i know you said your not going for origionality but those lift arms are not correct for a 20D and might cause some lift problems for you. dirty oil would not really cause the lift to not work. it could be any number of problems - the relief valve could be seized, the lift piston rings could be shot, or it could be o rings on the hyd cylinder. take the lift cover off and see is the pump pumping first of all. pm me when you establish what the problem is.

JohnBoy

Whats wrong with the arms?

They're the same length as the originals, the only visible difference is they have three holes in the middle instead of one.

As for the lift...

it was working a few weeks ago when I bought the tractor, up and down fine, was holding mid way both with and without weight on it. however it's now stuck in the raised position, but doesnt feel mechanically stuck, it's hydraulic I reckon.

Reason is if you try and lower it the arms will drop about an inch and then stop and if you lean on them they push back up against you.

put the lever back to the lift position and they pop back up to the top again.

The strange thing (well to me who know's nowt about fergies) is that when I push the lever to the lower position the draft spring/top link pulls into the tractor about quarter of an inch and then comes back out again when the lever is rasied.

I know that the top-link is tied into the lift lever and the control valve and the workshop manual is suggesting oil or control valve problems.

I'd like to avoid having to take off the top cover if I can.

marlyman

exactly, the lift arms should only have one hole, but thats only for origionality.

it sound like your relief valve is busted., new ones are available. you can drop the pump out from underneath. new valve should blow off at 2050 psi.

Dragous

JohnBoy wrote: »

Whats wrong with the arms?

They're the same length as the originals, the only visible difference is they have three holes in the middle instead of one.

As for the lift...

it was working a few weeks ago when I bought the tractor, up and down fine, was holding mid way both with and without weight on it. however it's now stuck in the raised position, but doesnt feel mechanically stuck, it's hydraulic I reckon.

Reason is if you try and lower it the arms will drop about an inch and then stop and if you lean on them they push back up against you.

put the lever back to the lift position and they pop back up to the top again.

The strange thing (well to me who know's nowt about fergies) is that when I push the lever to the lower position the draft spring/top link pulls into the tractor about quarter of an inch and then comes back out again when the lever is rasied.

I know that the top-link is tied into the lift lever and the control valve and the workshop manual is suggesting oil or control valve problems.

I'd like to avoid having to take off the top cover if I can.

sometimes at the bottom of the handle/lever for moving the lift up and down the linkage that is pivoted there used to come upwards, not sure if this was a safety feature or not, but it used to happen on our old grey diesel. The lever would move as normal but the lifts didn't actually go up or down. Its hard to explain, but if you wnat to pm me your number i'll ring and explain. As for the lift arms with the 3 holes in the middle, these were normally found on 35's. they don't really matter, they are more or less the same

JohnBoy

I think the original suggestion from the workshop manual is half right. maybe even threequarters right.

There was a share of water in the oil, along with other associated muck and gunge, so no harm at all in changing that bit anyway.

The problem actually looks to be in the quadrant to me. its only when the quadrant moves through it's last half inch or so of downward travel that it has any effect at all on the control valve, it's very loose prior to that, almost floppy.

when I operated the control valve directly by pushing back the fork inside the axle it allowed the arms to drop fine. I suppose a positive of all this is that it looks like I've a pretty decent seal on my piston rings and valves that the arms dont drop after a few weeks


I need to study the quadrant a bit better, it's different to the one discussed in detail in the workshop manual as it's a diesel but I could easily swap on a non-diesel one if needed as I've the battery located on the other side.

I'll give it a wash out with some diesel and then try and get the correct grade of oil (and probably end up sticking tractor universal into it) then figure out the quadrant and get it all back together.

Hopefully

JohnBoy

the quadrant is the problem.

played some more with it this evening and the quadrant has to be shoved down to the last to move the fork back just a little bit.

I took the quadrant off and strpped it down, there was acres of play and a felt washer missing. I didnt have any felt washers so I put in a disc of 2mm thick PVC and replaced 2 worn pins with M8 bolts and nylocs

There's a fair bit of wear on the internal part of the quadrant, there's nothing I can do about that, but the quadrant has slotted holes that allow it to be moved forward which will compensate for the wear.

I've no oil in the back end to test it with, but i can actually feel the lever acting on the control linkage.

now I'll give it all a wash out with some diesel and then refill it with new oil and cross everything

JohnBoy

I'm 90% of the way there.



Its going up and down now as it should following the repairs to the quadrant. but it's still not going down as far as it should. I'd say the lift arm ends still have another 4 inches to drop as compared to my ford 2600, that used drop to 2 inches below the holes in the transport box and this is only dropping to 2 inches above. (which made yoking up the box a bit of a struggle by myself)


I'm gonna get some weight into it at the weekend and see if it'll drop some more, but I'm not sure it will.......

grey peril

I think the argument about arms has been clouded, TE 20 arms are smaller in section than the 35 arms and flex more. I have a pair on a MF 35 which i know are wrong. My FE 35 has its original arms. The FE 35 arms are bigger profile but still one hole for the drop link which is in common with the MF 35 which i also have. The MF 135 is the one with three drop link holes and has a deeper profile through the arm than the MF 35. 135 arms are the same length but deeper profile, if you plug the extra holes and grind the arm down to size, it should be ok, unless the outer eyes are interhangable for different sized pins which was a MF 135 optional extra. The eyes were held in by a rather big spring clip, But allowed the different three point linkge sizes to be utilised.
Hope this is useful to someone.

JohnBoy

grey peril wrote: »

I think the argument about arms has been clouded, TE 20 arms are smaller in section than the 35 arms and flex more. I have a pair on a MF 35 which i know are wrong. My FE 35 has its original arms. The FE 35 arms are bigger profile but still one hole for the drop link which is in common with the MF 35 which i also have. The MF 135 is the one with three drop link holes and has a deeper profile through the arm than the MF 35. 135 arms are the same length but deeper profile, if you plug the extra holes and grind the arm down to size, it should be ok, unless the outer eyes are interhangable for different sized pins which was a MF 135 optional extra. The eyes were held in by a rather big spring clip, But allowed the different three point linkge sizes to be utilised.
Hope this is useful to someone.

there's an argument about the arms????

they're the same length, have a lift arm hole in the same place as the originals and are heavier duty. It's a win win situation to me.

What difference would plugging the holes and grinding the arms down to size make?




By way of an update I took two steps forward and one step back.... The whole thing was going up and down fine, just not dropping fully. I consulted with the manual and it said I needed to adjust the control spring as it had 25 times more play in it than it should have. Unfortunately the eye on the end of the rod is seized and I think I damaged the inner end of the rod in the process of trying to open it.

Now it goes up in fits and spurts, and really struggles at times, then gets to a certain point and shoots up the rest of the way.

I need to do the one thing I really didnt want to do. Take off the top cover. Then I'll be able to remove the whole control spring assembly and strip it on the bench.

powerfarmer

I'm not very familiar with the T20 but from what I remember of later tractors 35 and 135 , under the top cover there are some little rollers and linkages that have a tendency to fly off or drop down into the axle casing on removal of the top cover beware!

This is a link to a good T20 forum, its American based so some detail may be different
http://www.ytmag.com/ferg/wwwboard1.html

JohnBoy

powerfarmer wrote: »

I'm not very familiar with the T20 but from what I remember of later tractors 35 and 135 , under the top cover there are some little rollers and linkages that have a tendency to fly off or drop down into the axle casing on removal of the top cover beware!

This is a link to a good T20 forum, its American based so some detail may be different
http://www.ytmag.com/ferg/wwwboard1.html

aye it's a bit more involved seemingly on the later ones, but on the 20 it looks fairly straightforward.

The engine crane and workshop manual will be swinging into action first thing saturday morning methinks.

for anyone working on a 20 I'd reccomend this forum too http://www.greyfergie.po.gs/phpBB3/

JohnBoy

I bit the bullet today and took the top cover off.

Started first thing in the morning getting setup with a temporary bench and the nose down to let the oil run forward. I still had to drain some oil, even with the wheels off which makes me think I might have had too much oil in there.




Lots of fighting to take out the lift rod pins and every single bolt head was rough too. spent more time hammering sockets on and off than actually opening them, also had a minor moment when i was lifting and hadnt actually freed the fork off. I thought the two little bolts I removed were all I needed to do, dont think I did any damage as I think I noticed it's angle changing before it was under pressure.




Flipped it over on my bench and started with the heat and soaking




But it was all in vain Even afterwards when I had the end in the vice it still took a couple of feet of pipe on a stilson to open it off, I havent had a battle with a screw like it in years, I'll be sore tomorrow I reckon.




At least when it was broken I could progress the job, it still took a long battle to get the remaining bit out of the fork as I was trying to avoid removing the cylinder, which it turns out is essential to remove the fork anyway, D'Oh!! I shortened the rod a bit so I wouldnt have to thread it back on to the really tight part of the thread and I didnt know how wise it was to be re-welding the fatigued steel. Welded it back together with the mig and put as much heat as possible into it.




I decided when I'd come so far I may as well try and take some more of the play out of the whole system. the two pins that join the draft control fork to the main fork were quite worn, and the holes on one side of the main fork had gone oval. The holes were a snug fit for some M10s (well the round ones were snug) so I used them along with some nylocs instead of the orignial pins. I welded some M10 washers in place over the oval holes too, should make everything work just a little bit better.




Then I put it all back on and closed up the inspection holes.



9 hours that took me, most of it spent fighting with rusted bolts and pins. tiredy now

Sam Kade

You should use hexagonal sockets not the multi grip sockets, as they are way better for removing stubborn bolts. They won't round the heads of bolts either.

JohnBoy

I did. and a hammer

JohnBoy

Well I put the lift arms and stuff back on this morning.

All went well until it came to trying to setup the quadrant, I couldnt seem to get it right. eventually I figured out what was wrong. one of those M10 nylocs was catching in the quadrant.

I was able to make up a spacer with some PVC which will also act as a gasket.

Then all was well with the world.

I need to figure out how to set the plough up and how to use it, but this is a definite improvement, there's definitely a distinct sod been turned over.

JohnBoy

I went out last night and started the tractor and went to move it, the plough was still in mid air after sunday's exploits. As soon as i moved off the plough came down with a bang, and wont go back up at all.

Its not even trying to pick it at all. I took off the quadrant which normally causes it to lift itself up to no effect.

The pto is still turning and my welded lift rod has failed.

Where to from here folks?

This is so annoying as it was perfect on sunday, up and down a dozen times with no fuss or drama and now nothing.

I need to get this sorted as I've spuds that should really be planted by now.

JohnBoy

The lift cylinder is broken!!!




at least that explains why it dropped of such a shot.

now I need to know what caused this and what parts do I need to buy?


Obviously I need a cylinder, I assume my piston is re-useable, are all these the same size?

do I also need a relief valve, or could this failure just have been caused by 53 years of metal fatigue?

JohnBoy

Sometimes a picture paints a thousand words....



Put it all back together today and apart from some problems finding splitpins everything flew together.

Didnt even need to adjust the quadrant, got everything spot on first time.

Many thanks to my man with the parts


Now I just need to sort my harrow out

Figerty

That was a very strange failure on the Cylinder, did you find out what caused it to break?

JohnBoy

I honestly dont know.

theoretically it could have been the releif valve failing.

or it could just have been 53 years of metal fatigue. all the shock loadings from mounted implements are transferred eventually down to the end of that cylinder.

my guess is fatigue