Geordan and Johne Murphy

wixfjord

Geordan imo has to be one of the unluckiest men in Irish rugby, that mistake in Croker against France will define his Irish career I feel.. The more I see of him the more I think hes a genius. Great hands good step very intelligent and he seems to glide over the pitch. What a pity he isnt a better tackler. Would love to see him get a run at fb but not going to happen with kearney around. Playing some wondeful stuff for Leicester this year.

Johne on the other hand has never been given the chance to make a mistake. Hes been scoring tries left right and center for the past year and a half and (correct me if im wrong) never even made a matchday 22 for Ireland. The game at Twickers against quins lately underlined how good he is. He scored a try and made one for croft. Surely deserves a chance.

zAbbo

wixfjord wrote: »

The game at Twickers against quins lately underlined how good he is. He scored a try and made one for croft. Surely deserves a chance.

Which try was it which was scored with the Quins player running through both Murphy's tackles.

Agree that Geordon is quality

Podge_irl

Geordan Murphy has had extended runs at 15 for Ireland. The man has almost 60 caps for god's sake. He's just kept losing his place due to unbelievable ****ness in an Irish jersey.

barnesd

Podge_irl wrote: »

Geordan Murphy has had extended runs at 15 for Ireland. The man has almost 60 caps for god's sake. He's just kept losing his place due to unbelievable ****ness in an Irish jersey.

This is true. He constantly underperforms for Ireland.

wixfjord

Podge_irl wrote: »

Geordan Murphy has had extended runs at 15 for Ireland. The man has almost 60 caps for god's sake. He's just kept losing his place due to unbelievable ****ness in an Irish jersey.

Not disputing that fact, just feel that he has been unlucky to be the brunt of errors and to have been around during the o sullivan era aswell. If he was french he would be revered. Compared to others like horan, o callaghan, stringer and currently heaslip who have consistently underperformed and kept their place, he has been unlucky.

barnesd

wixfjord wrote: »

Not disputing that fact, just feel that he has been unlucky to be the brunt of errors and to have been around during the o sullivan era aswell. If he was french he would be revered. Compared to others like horan, o callaghan, stringer and currently heaslip who have consistently underperformed and kept their place, he has been unlucky.

There have been no viable alternatives to Horan and DOC for years, Stringer got dumped out of the team a good while ago and Heaslip has about 10 caps. None are like-for-like comparisons.

wixfjord

barnesd wrote: »

There have been no viable alternatives to Horan and DOC for years, Stringer got dumped out of the team a good while ago and Heaslip has about 10 caps. None are like-for-like comparisons.

I think you miss my point all Im saying is that these guys have played very poorly in numerous games in a row but have been given second chances, while Geordan Murphy has sometimes been thrown in, expected to perform, made a high profile mistake and been taken out again. Re: your point on alternatives, fair enough on horan, (although there are now) but DOC has been very lucky through the years that Bob Casey, Leo Cullen or even MOD havent taken his place. Stringer too that Boss and Reddan didnt get in sooner.

wixfjord

zAbbo wrote: »

Which try was it which was scored with the Quins player running through both Murphy's tackles.

Agree that Geordon is quality

I dont think that happened in the game im referring to anyway. One quins try was by brown who went through moody and the other was by monye who went through varndell I think

wixfjord

wixfjord wrote: »

Geordan imo has to be one of the unluckiest men in Irish rugby, that mistake in Croker against France will define his Irish career I feel.. The more I see of him the more I think hes a genius. Great hands good step very intelligent and he seems to glide over the pitch. What a pity he isnt a better tackler. Would love to see him get a run at fb but not going to happen with kearney around. Playing some wondeful stuff for Leicester this year.

Johne on the other hand has never been given the chance to make a mistake. Hes been scoring tries left right and center for the past year and a half and (correct me if im wrong) never even made a matchday 22 for Ireland. The game at Twickers against quins lately underlined how good he is. He scored a try and made one for croft. Surely deserves a chance.

I think Johne will get included this time around and in fairness he is only really properly making a name for himself for the second half last season and this season.

Does anyone have any info about Johne?
How did he end up playing for Leicester,did he play for an Irish province?

barnesd

wixfjord wrote: »

I think you miss my point all Im saying is that these guys have played very poorly in numerous games in a row but have been given second chances, while Geordan Murphy has sometimes been thrown in, expected to perform, made a high profile mistake and been taken out again. Re: your point on alternatives, fair enough on horan, (although there are now) but DOC has been very lucky through the years that Bob Casey, Leo Cullen or even MOD havent taken his place. Stringer too that Boss and Reddan didnt get in sooner.

Murphy started games in the AIs, the '08 6N, the RWC, the '07 6N, the '06 AIs, etc. How on earth has he not been given a chance?

wixfjord

barnesd wrote: »

Murphy started games in the AIs, the '08 6N, the RWC, the '07 6N, the '06 AIs, etc. How on earth has he not been given a chance?

Once again, I am not disputing that he hasnt been given chances, I was merely inferring that others who have hidden in games have had extended runs while he has been drafted out on the back of a high profile error, just feel its unfair is all.

barnesd

wixfjord wrote: »

Once again, I am not disputing that he hasnt been given chances, I was merely inferring that others who have hidden in games have had extended runs while he has been drafted out on the back of a high profile error, just feel its unfair is all.

That is just a flat out strange argument then.

Climate Expert

barnesd wrote: »

This is true. He constantly underperforms for Ireland.

If you constantly underperform that just means he performs at his talent limit. He can look better playing club rugby at a lower level.

wixfjord

It is unfair that Geordan Murphy has been blamed for high profile mistakes, even though he has played well otherwise, and dropped, whereas players such as horan stringer O Callaghan and heaslip have been dead losses and hidden in big games. I dont think thats a strange agrument.

barnesd

wixfjord wrote: »

It is unfair that Geordan Murphy has been blamed for high profile mistakes, even though he has played well otherwise, and dropped, whereas players such as horan stringer O Callaghan and heaslip have been dead losses and hidden in big games. I dont think thats a strange agrument.

Of for **** sake.

Stringer was dropped.

DOC has never lost Ireland a game, and even at that there isn't the same depth in the 2nd row as there is in the back 3. MOKs last outings for Ireland haven't been great, and I'm a Leinster fan.

Heaslip has been completely unfairly maligned, the majority of his time on the pitch for Ireland is spent at the bottom of a ruck or tackling. In about 3 of his small number of caps he's been Ireland's top tackler. He does hard, unspectacular work for Ireland, while Wallace makes the carries. On top of that with Leamy out, Ferris out for long periods and only finding his best for recently, and Jennings in mixed form he's been in at 8 by default.

Your argument makes no sense.

Doc is ****e and should have been dropped.

barnesd

Jason Repulsive Robin wrote: »

Doc is ****e and should have been dropped.

When and for who?

barnesd

barnesd wrote: »

When and for who?

For ireland and for a long time.

He should have been ousted years ago.Its a bloody joke that players like Big Bob and Cullen havent been given a shot when this one trick pony continuously underperformes for ireland.
I bet Big Bob would be an animal in the national shirt but alas his time will probably pass him by before he gets a shot.

Alot of Munster fans say they dont want their players playing for Ireland,well he is one they can keep.

Stev_o

Jason Repulsive Robin wrote: »

I think Johne will get included this time around and in fairness he is only really properly making a name for himself for the second half last season and this season.

Does anyone have any info about Johne?
How did he end up playing for Leicester,did he play for an Irish province?

Went to Naas same as Geordan, played for Landsdowne in the AIL got recommended to Leicester where he was used mainly during internationals. 07 saw him as the best Tigers player in the whole squad for the whole season the guy couldnt do anything wrong while alot of his team mates went in and out of form very quickly, pretty much was the only positive thing for Leicester when they played Ospreys in the EDF final where he didnt lay a finger wrong at FB. Won the player of the year award over there (Thats a huge award coming from such a mega big) and then started scoring tries for fun this year. He's tigers top try scorer with 5 tries from 10 matches which is extremely good considering they are playing a fairly lethargic game at the moment for 60 minutes.

Stev_o

Stev_o wrote: »

Went to Naas same as Geordan, played for Landsdowne in the AIL got recommended to Leicester where he was used mainly during internationals. 07 saw him as the best Tigers player in the whole squad for the whole season the guy couldnt do anything wrong while alot of his team mates went in and out of form very quickly, pretty much was the only positive thing for Leicester when they played Ospreys in the EDF final where he didnt lay a finger wrong at FB. Won the player of the year award over there (Thats a huge award coming from such a mega big) and then started scoring tries for fun this year. He's tigers top try scorer with 5 tries from 10 matches which is extremely good considering they are playing a fairly lethargic game at the moment for 60 minutes.

Thanks for the info.
How did the Leinster miss him??
He deserves a bench spot at the least I would say and maybe a starting spot against Italy.

Stev_o

Jason Repulsive Robin wrote: »

Thanks for the info.
How did the Leinster miss him??
He deserves a bench spot at the least I would say and maybe a starting spot against Italy.

Probably didnt go to high end enough school or some b0llox like that

barnesd

Stev_o wrote: »

Probably didnt go to high end enough school or some b0llox like that

Stupid post, he went to Newbridge and not all the players in Leinster came through schools anyway. Some players just slip through the net, it happens.

Heroditas

Jason Repulsive Robin wrote: »

Its a bloody joke that players like Big Bob and Cullen havent been given a shot when this one trick pony continuously underperformes for ireland.
I bet Big Bob would be an animal in the national shirt but alas his time will probably pass him by before he gets a shot.

Casey was badly off the pace in the Churchill Cup. He's far too slow for international level and his penchant for leaning on rucks means he's a liability.
Anway, the London Irish lineout hasn't been performing to its usual high levels this season.
There's a reason Casey left Leinster - Cullen ousted him. Cullen is a very decent HEC/ML player but lacks that critical 1-2% to play top flight international rugby.

Heroditas

Heroditas wrote: »

Casey was badly off the pace in the Churchill Cup. He's far too slow for international level and his penchant for leaning on rucks means he's a liability.
Anway, the London Irish lineout hasn't been performing to its usual high levels this season.
There's a reason Casey left Leinster - Cullen ousted him. Cullen is a very decent HEC/ML player but lacks that critical 1-2% to play top flight international rugby.

Before his injury Cullen was playing better than Doc and if he gets up to that standard again he should replace him.

Doc is nowhere near as special a player as Poc and thus shouldnt automatically be down to play.

wixfjord

barnesd wrote: »

Stupid post, he went to Newbridge and not all the players in Leinster came through schools anyway. Some players just slip through the net, it happens.

Jaysus mate your in a pissy mood tonight! :P

barnesd

wixfjord wrote: »

Jaysus mate your in a pissy mood tonight! :P

I am, sorry.

burnedfaceman

Johne played leinster 21s and would not have got near the leinster side as a pro, players like ross mccarron would have been rated above him at the time from what i can remember,suppose this example demonstrates the benefits of young irish players plying their trade outside of irish provinces in order to gain first team experience elsewhere as johne murphy has shown

Podge_irl

Johne played in one of the A games last season, so he was/is not completely off the radar. He was rather poor in the A game from what I recall though.

Chucky the tree

barnesd wrote: »

Stupid post, he went to Newbridge and not all the players in Leinster came through schools anyway. Some players just slip through the net, it happens.

Brian blaney - Terenure
Gary Brown - Blackrock
Felipi Contepomi - Not Irish
Leo Cullen - blackrock
gordon D'arcy - Clongowes
Girvan Dempsey - Terenure
Rock Elsom - Not Irish
Jamie Heaslip - Newbridge
Luke fitzgerald - Blackrock
John Fogarty - Rockwell
Cian healey - Belvo
Trevor Hogan - CBS Nenagh
Shane Horgan - St. Marys Drogheda
Bernard Jackman - Newbridge
Shane Jennings - St. Marys Rathmines
Cameron Jowit - Not Irish
Chris Keane - Belvo
Rob Kearney - Clongowes
Simon Keogh - St. Michaels
Stephen Keogh - St. Munchins
Stephen Knoop - South African
Ronan McCormack - St. Marys
Fergus McFadden - Clongowes
Kevin Mcloughlin - Gonzaga
Isa Newca - Not irish
Sean O'Brien - Tullow community school
Brian O'Driscoll- blackrock
Malcolm O'kelly - templeogue
Eoin O'Malley - Belvo
Johnny Sexton - St. Marys Rathmines
Devin Toner - Castleknock college
Cj van der linde - Not irish
Chris Whitaker - not irish
Stan Wright - not Irish


So nearly all irish leinster players went to a big rugby school, certainly all the first teamers. The reason Johne doesnt get any game time is because he is playing in the GPL. If he was on Munster or leinster everyone would be creaming there pants over him.

Amazotheamazing

In relation to DOC, he's often Ireland's top tackler, does a huge amount of tackling for a second row. You mightn't like him personally, but he's a vital player for Ireland.

In relation to J. Murphy, he's a little like Dowling in that he mightn't have had the talent to get into Leinster underage squads, but he has the attitude to make it at the top level. Amazing how so many guys that were considered better prospects that both Dowling and J. Murphy have ended up not making it.

G. Murphy suffers from being in the same Irish team as BOD, imo. If we had our usual type of uncreative centres playing, we'd need a creative talent like Murphy playing fullback. However, in BOD we've one of the greatest players of the pro era and instead we needed a "safe as houses" fullback like Dempsey to give BOD the platform to be creative. Another problem was that Murphy was considered too good to drop so he had to be played somewhere, and ended up as a wing for Ireland. He hasn't been a good wing since he broke his leg, imo. It's the same raw deal Kearney is getting, shunted onto the wing when he really isn't one.

twinytwo

barnesd wrote: »

This is true. He constantly underperforms for Ireland.

hell the whole team has been doing that since 6 mins into the first game of the world cup

dub_skav

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Another problem was that Murphy was considered too good to drop so he had to be played somewhere, and ended up as a wing for Ireland. He hasn't been a good wing since he broke his leg, imo. It's the same raw deal Kearney is getting, shunted onto the wing when he really isn't one.

Same thing happened to Dempsey when he was breaking through, played on the wing to get game time. He didn't like the position but was happy to play for Ireland. He then established himself as the best defensive fullback we have (possibly ever had) and is now being allowed to show his speed and express himself a bit more. Kearney's time will come but he still has to show that he has all the qualities required of a full back before he will completely oust Dempsey.

As for Murphy, managers still give him an Ireland call up occasionally due to form in the GP/media pressure, but he doesn't have the consistency that Ireland seem to want from a fullback.

Eoin

Amazotheamazing wrote:

However, in BOD we've one of the greatest players of the pro era and instead we needed a "safe as houses" fullback like Dempsey to give BOD the platform to be creative.

I don't know if this is the point you are making, but to dismiss Dempsey as just a safe fullback is doing him a disservice. OK, he's not as good in attack as Murphy, but he is not just a defensive player. He runs excellent lines, beats first up tacklers pretty often and is deceptively fast.

I know I make this point a lot, but I really don't think Dempsey gets the recognition he deserves.

sm.org

eoin wrote: »

I don't know if this is the point you are making, but to dismiss Dempsey as just a safe fullback is doing him a disservice. OK, he's not as good in attack as Murphy, but he is not just a defensive player. He runs excellent lines, beats first up tacklers pretty often and is deceptively fast.

I know I make this point a lot, but I really don't think Dempsey gets the recognition he deserves.

Seeing as he has about 70 odd caps now, I'd say its safe to say anyone who watchs him regularly knows his game is more then up an unders.

Eoin

sm.org wrote: »

Seeing as he has about 70 odd caps now, I'd say its safe to say anyone who watchs him regularly knows his game is more then up an unders.

Not judging by some of the comments I've read here before.

LeeroyJones

it really annoys me when people say G Murphy underperforms in an Irish shirt, he doesnt play to the same level as he does at Leicester because hes been put out on the wing far too many times by Ireland...... hes a fullback and thats all. And a quality full-back at that, his running from deep and intelligence is matched by very few in todays game, you cant blame him if hes been selected in position that he isn't!

As for Johne Murphy-definatly should be given a call, hes been consistently good for Leicester-whether or not he can make the next step up is to be seen but from what I have seen he's ready to be given the chance

Podge_irl

LeeroyJones wrote: »

it really annoys me when people say G Murphy underperforms in an Irish shirt, he doesnt play to the same level as he does at Leicester because hes been put out on the wing far too many times by Ireland...... hes a fullback and thats all. And a quality full-back at that, his running from deep and intelligence is matched by very few in todays game, you cant blame him if hes been selected in position that he isn't!

Most of his monumental cock-ups were while he was playing at full back. In fact, for some reason after France 2005 it was the winger and not Murphy who was dropped (I would have dropped him off a cliff after that performance).

Luckycharm

I see the Sky hype machine is working over here - Geordan murphy is the most overrated overhyped player to play for Ireland since Conor Shea. Since he unluckily broke his leg against Scotland he has been pretty much awful for Ireland against DECENT Opposition. Yes he looks good against Japan, scotland but gets shown up against TOP 5 teams.
His defence is a complete joke - it is cowardly he actually missed 2 tackles in the build up to that French try, missed tackle on Latham in Oz match. His recent turnstyle effort against Perpignan. The french actually target him especially Rougerie who loves to run through him.
His lack of basics has been woeful for Ireland as well twice I have seen him mess up a simple 2-1 5 that have prevented certain tries one to Tommy bowe.
He also had a propensity to throw intercepts when he threw passes without looking.
His physical presence is an embarrassement for someone who is playing pro rugby over 10 years. Anyone else remember playing against the Argies in RWC and running slowing into the Argies and getting continously turned over- one thing that rarely happens to Girv. I would rather have Girv, Kearney, FItz, earls playing 15 for Ireland before Turnstyles.

Johnny murphy he is pretty average he was very average during the churchill cup - he is a poor mans Ian Dowling.

DOC has mainly been incumbent due to no real pressure- I am hoping young Donnacha ryan will get a chance soon. Bob casey is just too slow and cumbersome for international rugby- no one remember his game for Ireland against England in Twickers where we 30pts plus down by halftime!!

remus808

Luckycharm wrote: »

he is a poor mans Ian Dowling.

Jesus, that's damning praise. :eek:

In fairness, although there may be too much hype surrounding Geordan, it's undeniable that he is a quality player. He may not have the all round game that Dempsey has, but his attacking prowess and work under the high ball are renowned for a reason.

Sparky14

karmabass wrote: »

Jesus, that's damning praise. :eek:

In fairness, although there may be too much hype surrounding Geordan, it's undeniable that he is a quality player. He may not have the all round game that Dempsey has, but his attacking prowess and work under the high ball are renowned for a reason.

He was referring to Johne Murphy, not Geordan.

Luckycharm

karmabass wrote: »

Jesus, that's damning praise. :eek:

In fairness, although there may be too much hype surrounding Geordan, it's undeniable that he is a quality player. He may not have the all round game that Dempsey has, but his attacking prowess and work under the high ball are renowned for a reason.

I was referring to Johney murphy with the Dowling reference.

Is Geordan any better under under the high ball then Dempsey- Kearney is better then both IMHO. Geordan is the Irish equivalent of Newcastle united under King Kev in the early days- they might look good going forward but there were terrible in Defence. Sky always highlight the odd good run but never show his bad moments. It would be very interesting to compare Girvs and Geordan try scoring stats and also against who they have scored their tries. Geordan has done very little for Ireland in quite a while and been a liability on more then one occasion- that time we were nearly 40pts behind at half time in Paris he was involved in nearly every single french try between missing tackles, falling over, throwing intercepts - Please point me out 2 times in Girvs 80 plus caps mistakes he has made that have led directly to tries for the opposition?
Anyway I really hope Kearney starts 15 in the 6ns he really has the making to be a great 15 and is not making as many brainfarts as he used to. His defence at times though is not what it should be but the rest are class.

wixfjord

Luckycharm wrote: »

. I would rather have Girv, Kearney, FItz, earls playing 15 for Ireland before Turnstyles.

Johnny murphy he is pretty average he was very average during the churchill cup - he is a poor mans Ian Dowling.

So you would rather see fitzgerald or earls, neither fullbacks and both very mediocre tacklers, play instead of one of the best fullbacks in the gp?

A poor mans ian dowling wouldnt be holding down a place on a strong leicester team and scoring tries in one of the best leagues in the world (something which dowling does not do)

Luckycharm

wixfjord wrote: »

So you would rather see fitzgerald or earls, neither fullbacks and both very mediocre tacklers, play instead of one of the best fullbacks in the gp?

A poor mans ian dowling wouldnt be holding down a place on a strong leicester team and scoring tries in one of the best leagues in the world (something which dowling does not do)

Sky must love you Fitzgearld has been capped by Ireland at fullback and give me examples of his weak tackling? Earls has alot of potential, one bad missed tackle in the HEC but is generally ok plus both are still young and are the future which Turnstyles isn't.

Why do you rate the GP in any comp the GP competed with Magniers league teams last year- ML teams won. Sky hype english players playing in the GP - how did those same english players get on in the AI's just gone???

Leicester are not that strong anymore they did not even make the Quarters last year in the HEC, they got thrashed by the Ospreys in the Anglo welsh rubbish plus got thrashed by Wasps in the GP final- they are barely making the top 4 of an average GP this year- so why are you saying they are strong? These same tigers signed Eoin Finnegan after he failed with leinster :mad:

Let me guess you are quite new to rugby aren't you? There have been plenty of Irish players who have done well over in the GP who couldn't make with the provinces Eoin Hickey Leinster and Munster reject, Downey at Saints.
Give J murphy a go in the A team and see how he does- I would put him behind Dowling - dowling does not score many tries but he does everything else well- I don't murphy would create much for himself at the highest but would be happy to be proved wrong :P

wixfjord

Luckycharm wrote: »

Let me guess you are quite new to rugby aren't you?

Ive been a Leinster season ticket holder for years and regularly attend ail games. Ive also played to a good level. Please dont come on here to patronise.


I didnt say I personally rated the gp, I said its one of the best leagues in the world. The top of the magners league is better than the gp I would agree.

Leciester failed to get out of a group containing Leinster tolouse and edinburgh, not a massive failiure is it? They are a quality team and I wouldnt back against them against anyone at welford road. You say they are barely making the top 4 in the gp, look where cardiff, rated as fourth favourites for the hc are in the magners league.

Back ot, I rate kearney as Irelands best fullback without question, I do think that geordan murphy could still do a job for Ireland given a chance, has had some very awesone games this season.

Ian Dowling isnt international standard. Johne Murphy might be, lets give him a chance.

wixfjord

wixfjord wrote: »

So you would rather see fitzgerald or earls, neither fullbacks

Tbh Fitzgerald is a natural fullback and played 90% of his school rugby there,its by far his best position.


I agree with you on the rest

Luckycharm wrote: »

I was referring to Johney murphy with the Dowling reference.

A poor mans Ian Dowling has to be a joke.Ian Dowling is one the the worst most average players I have ever seen.

Whereas Johne Murphy starts regularly for one of the best 5 teams in europe and is their top try scorer.

Stev_o

Luckycharm wrote: »

Johnny murphy he is pretty average he was very average during the churchill cup - he is a poor mans Ian Dowling.

He wasnt at the Churchill cup:rolleyes:

handsomecake

Jason Repulsive Robin wrote: »

I think Johne will get included this time around and in fairness he is only really properly making a name for himself for the second half last season and this season.

Does anyone have any info about Johne?
How did he end up playing for Leicester,did he play for an Irish province?

he is from kildare town. used to play for cill dara as a nipper.i played for naas and we regularly played each other. then he went to newbridge college and was a year behind heaslip in school. think he went to leicester from there.

as an aside he was on an rte show called the x-files a few years back where you were set up with your x missus for dates and his was that model pippa o connor who is with your man brian ormond now.

Luckycharm

Stev_o wrote: »

He wasnt at the Churchill cup:rolleyes:

Apologies I believe he played against the England Saxons in an A game during the 6ns last year. Is that fixture on this year- if so he should be given a chance. I am no fan of dowling and was one of his worst critics but to be fair he has improved especially his defence and his work rate is excellent, plus he is fearless and makes hard yards. He would be too slow for international rugby and does not score enough tries but to fair he has made the most of his abilities and is not as niggley as he used to be.

Luckycharm

wixfjord wrote: »

Ive been a Leinster season ticket holder for years and regularly attend ail games. Ive also played to a good level. Please dont come on here to patronise.


I didnt say I personally rated the gp, I said its one of the best leagues in the world. The top of the magners league is better than the gp I would agree.

Leciester failed to get out of a group containing Leinster tolouse and edinburgh, not a massive failiure is it? They are a quality team and I wouldnt back against them against anyone at welford road. You say they are barely making the top 4 in the gp, look where cardiff, rated as fourth favourites for the hc are in the magners league.

Back ot, I rate kearney as Irelands best fullback without question, I do think that geordan murphy could still do a job for Ireland given a chance, has had some very awesone games this season.

Ian Dowling isnt international standard. Johne Murphy might be, lets give him a chance.

Sorry if I sounded patronising. Leicester is traditionally the biggest club in England with a huge home support for them not to make the quarters of the HEC is a DISASTER same way it would be for Leinster and especially Munster. They lost all their away matches including away to Edinburgh (we know that feeling)

Unfortunately alot of the Welsh teams don't take the ML seriously and with no relegation and gauranteed entry into the HEC- they don't have to. Also teams like cardiff are involved in that waste of time Anglo welsh cup so their playing resources get too strectched in order to put out full teams each week in the ML- then again who does. One thing the GP has over the ML is that every game matters whether it is to avoid Relegation or to get into the HEC so the intensity can often be higher.

conman78

Think it would be pretty dire if Kidney doesnt include Johne Murphy, considering the other v average guys that get selected.

Am a huge Geordan fan and think some of the slack he has got has been most unfair..particularly when the French game from 2 years ago is constantly brought up.

Anyway remember the RTE documentary at the end of the 07 6 Nations, the most honourable ROG kept going thru G Murphy saying not exceptible to make such mistakes at this level. Ibanez try was soft, should have made a better hit alright but when you've the bull on your inside out of position in the defence line it makes life hazardous to those outside (fatties to the inside, faster players out wide). And if that plonker Steve Walsh had played advantage in the 2nd half when Murphy interecepted and then blew the whistle after he was clear away he'd have been the hero as we'd have won the match adn that elusive Grand Slam!

So harsh criticism I think but good talking points, ROG is a bit of a snake...easy to forget your own horrors eg, Lions (both tours) & almost every game v NZ...makes Charlie Hodgson look like a great tackler!!!

Anyway as of now, Kearney has to be 15. G Murphy on the bench or wing at best!

RugbyFanatic

conman78 wrote: »

Think it would be pretty dire if Kidney doesnt include Johne Murphy, considering the other v average guys that get selected.

Am a huge Geordan fan and think some of the slack he has got has been most unfair..particularly when the French game from 2 years ago is constantly brought up.

Anyway remember the RTE documentary at the end of the 07 6 Nations, the most honourable ROG kept going thru G Murphy saying not exceptible to make such mistakes at this level. Ibanez try was soft, should have made a better hit alright but when you've the bull on your inside out of position in the defence line it makes life hazardous to those outside (fatties to the inside, faster players out wide). And if that plonker Steve Walsh had played advantage in the 2nd half when Murphy interecepted and then blew the whistle after he was clear away he'd have been the hero as we'd have won the match adn that elusive Grand Slam!

So harsh criticism I think but good talking points, ROG is a bit of a snake...easy to forget your own horrors eg, Lions (both tours) & almost every game v NZ...makes Charlie Hodgson look like a great tackler!!!

Anyway as of now, Kearney has to be 15. G Murphy on the bench or wing at best!

I couldn't have put it better. I would like to add my own opinions on a certain Irish player who criticised another as mentioned above but unfortunately I am not allowed.