First lesson down... Help!

pandamoanium

Hey all! So I had my very first lesson today with Hiberian Driving School, it went OK... Let me give you some background info; My Dad is a very good driver, he has taken Advanced Driving courses in the past, gone to London to do specialist tests etc.. I trust him 100% in the car, more than anyone else - the only reason I'm mentioning this is just in case anyone says that I was picking up bad habits from him - he's a very competent driver and has the certs and trophies from various competitions to certify it etc.. In fact he's even thinking of becoming a Driving Instructor, however that's another story.. Anyways he has given me a few informal lessons - mainly in a carpark/quiet area, with him I was always fine, I could start off no problem, no conking out, I could take corners fine, reverse etc.. everything was going well so I couldn't wait to get started with proper lessons. So cue my first lesson today. For the first half it went fine, we went to a quiet area and did some theory, then I practised the basics stopping and starting, turning, indicating etc.. however I just kept conking out the car! It was embarassing, I went from being able to do something naturally on the first go two weeks ago, to failing and failing, try after try in front of the instructor.. Ok, so I thought no big deal, I'll just practise with my Dad after the lesson. So later on in the evening we went to the same spot as I had with the instructor earlier on and I just couldn't start the car. I kept letting go of the clutch too soon and not pressing down at on the accelorator whilst letting go of the clutch resulting in conking out the engine time after time after time again.. It was too embarassing for words. My Dad was shocked. He couldn't understand how I could go from a keen, budding beginner able to handle the basics to not being able to start the car after an hours proper tuition. He now feels that the instructor has "ruined" me. Ok, I know that sounds harsh, and I'm sure he didn't mean it either, but we were both getting frustrated how I was well able to start before, then after my first lesson can't even get to grips with the basics. I don't know what happened me or why I can't do it anymore.. I felt the instructor was giving me perhaps too many instructions whilst trying to start the car which bamboozled me, well whatever it was, my confidence is completely shot now. In the space of 24 hours I have gone from an enthusiastic, eager to learn, keen, budding wannabe-driver to a self conscious, nervous failure. I know it's only been one lesson, but jeez, I went backwards! I'm half afraid now to get back in the car again in case I'll still be stalling and conking out the engine, I mean, WTF, a few days ago I was raring to go! I'm now also worried that I've been foolish in paying up for 10 lessons in advance incase me and this instructor won't gel and that his style of training perhaps isn't best suited to me.. I don't know if it was nerves or what, but if it was that wouldn't account why I was messing up later on in the day either with my Dad who I'd never feel the need to impress or be nervous around. I guess I'll have to force myself to get into the car tomorrow and practise, practise, practise! Anyone got any tips for starting off? When it begins to bite I take my foot off the clutch too early and don't give it enough gas. I was grand before so don't know why this is affecting me now and I don't want it to turn into a big psychological thing whereby I'll psyche myself up to do and never will be able to! Thanks for reading guys x

Wishbone Ash

It might be more appropriate to break that into paragraphs. I just gave up - too much in one block.

Thoie

I agree that paragraphs might help.

Anyway, try not to worry about it - when I was learning to drive I went through days when I couldn't do anything at all (like start the car), and other days when it all just worked. Everything would be going fine for a few weeks, then one day I'd just keep cutting out.

Blame it on cold ankles or something

2qk4u

Could just be a different car and a bit of nerves.... Stick with it, just take your time and talk to your instructor, remember this is about you. It sounds like you got a bit of false confidence with your dad.
Why did you pick Hibernian for the lessons ?

ronkmonster

sounds like nerves and if you keep worrying it will just make things worse

also making mistakes is part of the learning.

different car is a good point also. i found it hard to adjust to different clutches in first few years and stalled when I'd be grand before

here.from.day.1

I kind of think the standard your dad is at with his certs and advanced courses is playing with your head, as in your feeling a lot of pressure to meet his expectations or to try and drive to his level.

Just try and relax and not feel pressured. I know it’s hard but like everything in life it just takes practice, it will come to you. Maybe try get a lesson off another family member that isn’t quite such an accomplished driver, you may not feel as stressed to be perfect. Good luck!

Niall F

I'd be inclined to practice as soon as I can. It would depend to a certain extent on the car you started in and the car you used with Hibernian. Generally, the smaller the engine the more precise the biting point, making it that bit more difficult to get it right. Best type of car to learn in is a diesel because they are quite hard to conk out (although I used to manage it). It gives you that bit more confidence when the car takes off first time.
If you went from a bigger engine to a smaller engine, this would help you to conk out more often. Then, lack of confidence after a few attempts would bring you right back to square one. You're also less likely to conk out if you put the car in reverse. That might build back up some confidence.

challengemaster

Everyone stalls their car at some stage or another. It's no biggy, especially when you're a beginner. Just as a beginner you tend to panic and make a bigger deal out of it than it is.

My dad who's in his 60's stalled his car last week at traffic lights. He's been driving over 40 years. These things happen.

It's a lot different being in a car with a parent and being in one with a driving instructor. Even if your father is as good as you say, he's still your father. There's not that same relationship with a driving instructor.

And with the thing of not giving it enough gas - That happened to me for a while with me. I'd be fine in the instructors car when taking lessons, would work perfect every time. Tried the exact same thing in my own car and it conked every single time. (they were both fiat puntos!). Every single car is different. Now I just make sure I'm giving it enough gas (and the nose will rise if you're giving it enough in a small car) before I let go of the handbreak. Just make sure you're giving it enough

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Wishbone Ash

pandamoanium wrote: »

but we were both getting frustrated how I was well able to start before, then after my first lesson can't even get to grips with the basics. I don't know what happened me or why I can't do it anymore.

That's quite normal. Don't worry about it. Everyone who tries something new goes through this.

I had been driving cars, buses, rigid trucks and artics for years. I decided to go for the motorcycle lessons as it was the only category I hadn't done. My first lesson was great. Everything went smoothly. I was all geared up thinking that riding bikes was easy. I knew it all.

The second and third lessons were a total disaster. Me with my little 'L' bib stalling at major junctions, selecting the wrong gear, causing chaos everywhere and almost getting killed as I manually 'legged' the bike off the road. I wanted to give up and cry.

But it all came together again and I now have a bike licence .

Stick with it.

Wishbone Ash

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

It might be more appropriate to break that into paragraphs. I just gave up - too much in one block.

Sorry - didn't mean to sound harsh.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

fonpokno

pandamoanium wrote: »

When it begins to bite I take my foot off the clutch too early and don't give it enough gas.

This happened to me for aaaaages learning to drive. What I did (which is probably terrible) is I gave it lots of extra revs when i was starting off. Sounded loud and terrifying but it got me moving and that's what i wanted. Then gradually I was able to lessen the gas and pull away smoothly. The clutch is something I took a good while to get used to, especially since my instructor's car was alot smaller than my mother's.

Also, my first and second lessons went great! Then my third lesson came along and I was stalling during every manoeuvre and at every set of traffic lights. At one point I kept trying to move off in 3rd gear. This stuff happens! You're only starting to drive! Seems to me you're thinking way to hard about it.

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Agree completely with this. My dad took me out driving loads between lessons and anytime he gave me an instruction or advice that conflicted with what my driving instructor had told me I just did what my driving instructor had taught me instead. It p*ssed him off no end and World War 3 broke out in the car regularly (because dads are always right you know) but the way I saw it was that my driving instructor was the one who is actually qualified to teach me to pass the test and I passed first time in November.

Don't be so hard on yourself. It was your first lesson, driving isn't something that immediately comes to you first time you sit in a car. Your first outing may go well but guaranteed, the second you think you're getting good it'll all fall apart!

macroman

OP, it sounds like you're getting way ahead of yourself with regards nerves. Learning with someone you're familiar with (your Dad) and a complete stranger (instructor) can often give two outcomes when you're learning.

For one, you were practising in two different cars - the Corsa's that Hibernian use have a very low-down biting point. Other (older) cars such as Micra's have the biting point quite high up (IMO). It's just a case of listening to the engine tone or feeling the car 'duck' when releasing the clutch. I found when getting lessons from the ISM they were too by the book, the instructor was waffling on about a 'see-saw' action and all sorts of crap - I learned my own way: release until car 'ducks' and hold it, give it some accelerator and release clutch SLOWLY and smoothly. By the sounds of it, you were getting it to the bit and releasing too quick - often when somebody stalls its because they weren't controling the clutch correctly not whether they had enough accelerator (unless it's on a hill etc.).

It will come naturally. You have to get out and teach yourself - get you Dad to bring you to an empty carpark, and to leave you in the car by yourself so you can get to grips with the controls yourself - having somone beside you is ALWAYS distracting (whether they speak or not!). Once you can get the car to pull off smoothly get him to join you again and hit the road!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Alanstrainor

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'd +1 one that too! It's the best way to get the feel of the clutch and of whats going on with the engine. It's not in any way practical for everyday use, but for the purpose of learning it'll teach you a lot. Even to know the feel of the car and the sounds of the engine starting to struggle when you release the clutch too much without any accelerator.
And as others above have said, your experiences are felt by everyone at the early stages of learning. I remember my first two lessons went great, felt i'd be driving and passing a test by lesson 3, then lesson 3 comes around and everything seems to go wrong, i couldn't seem to get the clutch right, i was forgetting to check my mirrors, couldn't change down through the gears, for that 1 hour lesson everything went wrong. But the thing is, you just have to learn from your mistakes and carry on.
Best of luck OP

ha-ya-said-what

the lesson cars are petrol, if your dads was a diesel you were driving there is your problem

Engine size never a problem for me drive a 1.9 or any diesel grand, then get into a little petrol and it can be a nightmare when your learnin.........

friggan petrol cars should be banned!

DancingDaisy

All I can say is don't worry about it. It happens to almost everybody. I had a similar experience in the first couple of weeks when I was learning the basics. My first time out with my dad was great. Could move off and everything, and the next time I went out with him I could do nothing right. It's just one of those things.

You may also find that with an instructor it takes time. Was the instructors car different to the one you practice in with your dad? This could make all the difference, as the clutch and accelerator is different in almost every car, so it can take a while to get used to this.

I know when I first switched from my car, to my instructors car and then back again, I had issues with the clutch.

Just keep plugging away at it. Remember to only start accelerating when you have lifted your foot of the clutch and start to feel the car trying to move, and it is often possible to see the front of the bonnet to rise slightly at the biting point. When you get to the biting point, keep a constant pressure on the accelerator and slowly lift your foot from the clutch. This works for me anyhow.

Hope this helps.

pandamoanium

First of all - sorry about the big squished up mass of unreadable garbage - I didn't post it like that, I posted it with paragraphs, however for some unknown reason it posted without spaces.. when I saw it I went back to edit it, again though it posted like that for some reason.. Sorry!

Thanks everyone for all the replies, you've cheered me all up no end!

Right, bear with me whilst I get back to you all... deep breaths..

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

It might be more appropriate to break that into paragraphs. I just gave up - too much in one block.

Don't worry - I would have done the same also, I couldn't read it either!

Thoie wrote: »

I agree that paragraphs might help.

Anyway, try not to worry about it - when I was learning to drive I went through days when I couldn't do anything at all (like start the car), and other days when it all just worked. Everything would be going fine for a few weeks, then one day I'd just keep cutting out.

Blame it on cold ankles or something

Yeah, I've already put it down to *cough-wimmins-stuff-cough*, I think I was feeling a bit off that day.. anyways, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!! hehe

2qk4u wrote: »

Could just be a different car and a bit of nerves.... Stick with it, just take your time and talk to your instructor, remember this is about you. It sounds like you got a bit of false confidence with your dad.
Why did you pick Hibernian for the lessons ?

Heya! Yeah, I think the different cars didn't help too much, didn't have time really to warm up to it, or get used to it, I'll know better for next time though!

As for Hibernian.. well a few reasons - 1.) They were reasonable cost wise. 2.) There was the option of book 10 and get the 11th free. and 3.) you could get 6 months free insurance as a named driver which was the clincher for me!

Perhaps not the wisest way for choosing a school, however I presumed that a big company like Hibernian who have a reputation to uphold should have well trained, reliable instructors, plus I didn't know of anyone to ask for personal reccommendations sooo.. that's how I ended up with them, I'll let you guys know how I get on.

ronkmonster wrote: »

sounds like nerves and if you keep worrying it will just make things worse

also making mistakes is part of the learning.

different car is a good point also. i found it hard to adjust to different clutches in first few years and stalled when I'd be grand before

Yeah, I think when I made my first mistake that threw me, then the next time I'd be concentrating more and trying not to repeat it, which of course just added nerves which didn't help.. I went for a lesson today with my Dad for 2 hours, and without thinking or focusing at all (Sounds bad, but what I mean is, not overly complicating things for myself) and everything went great, felt like I was back on track again!

here.from.day.1 wrote: »

I kind of think the standard your dad is at with his certs and advanced courses is playing with your head, as in your feeling a lot of pressure to meet his expectations or to try and drive to his level.

Just try and relax and not feel pressured. I know it’s hard but like everything in life it just takes practice, it will come to you. Maybe try get a lesson off another family member that isn’t quite such an accomplished driver, you may not feel as stressed to be perfect. Good luck!

Heya! That's an interesting theory, one which would never actually have entered my head at all! Tbh, I don't think I feel any pressure to meet his standards - definitely not on a conscious level at all anyhow. He's never put pressure on me, in fact he was the one who wanted me to get an instructor to teach me as he'd rather I get proper tuition and not pick up any bad habits or anything even though he'd be well able to teach me the basics at the very least.

He's very supportive so I'm really lucky there. I'm not trying to attain his level of skill, so long as I'm a safe and confident driver I'll be happy, I'm sure I'll always be picking up nuggets of info from him over the years from now on though!

I think next I'll be bugging him to show me how to change a wheel.. yes.. I don't actually know how! :eek:

Niall F wrote: »

I'd be inclined to practice as soon as I can. It would depend to a certain extent on the car you started in and the car you used with Hibernian. Generally, the smaller the engine the more precise the biting point, making it that bit more difficult to get it right. Best type of car to learn in is a diesel because they are quite hard to conk out (although I used to manage it). It gives you that bit more confidence when the car takes off first time.
If you went from a bigger engine to a smaller engine, this would help you to conk out more often. Then, lack of confidence after a few attempts would bring you right back to square one. You're also less likely to conk out if you put the car in reverse. That might build back up some confidence.

Hey Niall! I think you just may have hit the nail on the head with that one! My Dad's car which I was using was a 2.0 Diesel, the instructors was a 1.3 petrol, so that definitely lends weight to your reasoning and sounds like that could have been the problem!

In a way I'm kinda glad I'll be learning on both a bigger and smaller car, hopefully it will mean I'll be able to adapt to different types of cars quicker in the future.

I think driving the Diesel must be easier alright as during a 2 hour session today I didn't conk it out once, everything just went miles better! See, I'm learning stuff already, I had no idea a petrol or diesel engine could make so much of a difference to a beginner!

challengemaster wrote: »

Everyone stalls their car at some stage or another. It's no biggy, especially when you're a beginner. Just as a beginner you tend to panic and make a bigger deal out of it than it is.

My dad who's in his 60's stalled his car last week at traffic lights. He's been driving over 40 years. These things happen.

It's a lot different being in a car with a parent and being in one with a driving instructor. Even if your father is as good as you say, he's still your father. There's not that same relationship with a driving instructor.

And with the thing of not giving it enough gas - That happened to me for a while with me. I'd be fine in the instructors car when taking lessons, would work perfect every time. Tried the exact same thing in my own car and it conked every single time. (they were both fiat puntos!). Every single car is different. Now I just make sure I'm giving it enough gas (and the nose will rise if you're giving it enough in a small car) before I let go of the handbreak. Just make sure you're giving it enough

Thanks for the tips! I'll definitely put them into practice for next time I'm in the car! I think I've actually pin-pointed where I was going wrong today aswell, I was keeping my foot on the clutch and when releasing when taking off, I was just lifting my foot off it, then my Dad suggested to keep my heel on the floor at all times and pivot - this was a major help, everything went so much smoother after that!

I guess the small things can make a big difference when you're starting out!

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Cheers man! I really appreciate you spacing it out for everyone, still don't know why it all clumped together like that when I posted? Anyways, your sterling efforts haven't gone unnoticed!

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

That's quite normal. Don't worry about it. Everyone who tries something new goes through this.

I had been driving cars, buses, rigid trucks and artics for years. I decided to go for the motorcycle lessons as it was the only category I hadn't done. My first lesson was great. Everything went smoothly. I was all geared up thinking that riding bikes was easy. I knew it all.

The second and third lessons were a total disaster. Me with my little 'L' bib stalling at major junctions, selecting the wrong gear, causing chaos everywhere and almost getting killed as I manually 'legged' the bike off the road. I wanted to give up and cry.

But it all came together again and I now have a bike licence .

Stick with it.

Wow! An experienced driver used to buses and trucks etc.. I would have thought a motorcycle would be a breeze for you, just goes to show I guess huh?

Congrats on your multiple vehicle licences btw, you must have quite the collection! hehe

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Hi there!

Thanks for the advice, very helpful! I think you're right about having the two authority figures clashing as inevitably one is going to show me one way of doing something, whilst the other will have a different method of doing the same thing which will end up complicating matters.

In hindsight now, I think I was overly tired that day and I took too much on all at once, in fact I hadn't really slept the night before and I had a lot going on so my concentrations wouldn't have been the best. Add into the equation then two different sized cars, one petrol, one diesel etc.. and well I guess it was a recipe for disaster!

I think I was getting overly confident with my Dad, I was trying to run before I could walk. I know now to take it slow and steady and whilst there might be occasional hiccups, I'll get there!

I totally agree about how getting lessons from a family member can in more cases than not be more trouble than it's worth, and it was in fact my father who egged me on to get professional lessons as opposed to him teaching me, he wanted me to get the best start possible.

I'll leave the teaching now to my instructor, however I will need to have my Dad with me as a qualified driver whilst I'm practising on a quiet road/carpark etc.. I don't think I would make much progress with the lessons without having practice in between to compound the lessons and of course hone in on problem areas and practice getting them right etc..

Btw, I think I solved my clutch problem today! - I need to rest my heel on the floor and pivot on it as opposed to lifting my entire foot off the clutch.. I'll let you know how I get on with my next lesson anyhow!

fonpokno wrote: »

This happened to me for aaaaages learning to drive. What I did (which is probably terrible) is I gave it lots of extra revs when i was starting off. Sounded loud and terrifying but it got me moving and that's what i wanted. Then gradually I was able to lessen the gas and pull away smoothly. The clutch is something I took a good while to get used to, especially since my instructor's car was alot smaller than my mother's.

Also, my first and second lessons went great! Then my third lesson came along and I was stalling during every manoeuvre and at every set of traffic lights. At one point I kept trying to move off in 3rd gear. This stuff happens! You're only starting to drive! Seems to me you're thinking way to hard about it.


Agree completely with this. My dad took me out driving loads between lessons and anytime he gave me an instruction or advice that conflicted with what my driving instructor had told me I just did what my driving instructor had taught me instead. It p*ssed him off no end and World War 3 broke out in the car regularly (because dads are always right you know) but the way I saw it was that my driving instructor was the one who is actually qualified to teach me to pass the test and I passed first time in November.

Don't be so hard on yourself. It was your first lesson, driving isn't something that immediately comes to you first time you sit in a car. Your first outing may go well but guaranteed, the second you think you're getting good it'll all fall apart!

Hey! Congrats on passing your test first time round, that's great!

Awh your poor dad, I'll bet he didn't like the thought of you giving heed to a complete stranger over him, I'm sure his ego was a little bruised after your sessions! Still you did the right thing sticking with your instructors guidelines, and see, it showed, you passed first time round!

macroman wrote: »

OP, it sounds like you're getting way ahead of yourself with regards nerves. Learning with someone you're familiar with (your Dad) and a complete stranger (instructor) can often give two outcomes when you're learning.

For one, you were practising in two different cars - the Corsa's that Hibernian use have a very low-down biting point. Other (older) cars such as Micra's have the biting point quite high up (IMO). It's just a case of listening to the engine tone or feeling the car 'duck' when releasing the clutch. I found when getting lessons from the ISM they were too by the book, the instructor was waffling on about a 'see-saw' action and all sorts of crap - I learned my own way: release until car 'ducks' and hold it, give it some accelerator and release clutch SLOWLY and smoothly. By the sounds of it, you were getting it to the bit and releasing too quick - often when somebody stalls its because they weren't controling the clutch correctly not whether they had enough accelerator (unless it's on a hill etc.).

It will come naturally. You have to get out and teach yourself - get you Dad to bring you to an empty carpark, and to leave you in the car by yourself so you can get to grips with the controls yourself - having somone beside you is ALWAYS distracting (whether they speak or not!). Once you can get the car to pull off smoothly get him to join you again and hit the road!

Now that's a really good idea actually, having to think of all the things by myself firsthand in starting off rather than having someone beside me prompting me (As lets face it, I'd never learn that way!) Thanks! I'll definitely put that into action next time.. I doubt he'll be too impressed though, me turfing him out til I get started in the lashing rain! hehe

I do think I was putting the cart before the horse thinking I'd be grand after a few lessons, I'll have to get a feel for the cars and the engine and biting points etc.. and that only comes with experience.. so lots more practising for me!

I have to say today was great, no nerves at all, and because I wasn't hell bent on getting it right it all came naturally to me. I was even reversing down hills, reversing around corners n stuff.. yeah ok, baby stuff, but for me it was one giant step for man!

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Wow! Thanks for that! That sounds like a really good tip to get me used to the clutch and get to know it better so to speak.. Oh lord the neighbours will think I've morphed into a little girl racer! Oh wells, all in the name of learning!

ha-ya-said-what wrote: »

the lesson cars are petrol, if your dads was a diesel you were driving there is your problem

for me drive a 1.9 or any diesel grand, then get into a little petrol and it c
Engine size never a problem an be a nightmare when your learnin.........

friggan petrol cars should be banned!

Thanks for that! Hearing this has made my day no end as I said before I had no idea that different engines could make so much difference!

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I'd +1 one that too! It's the best way to get the feel of the clutch and of whats going on with the engine. It's not in any way practical for everyday use, but for the purpose of learning it'll teach you a lot. Even to know the feel of the car and the sounds of the engine starting to struggle when you release the clutch too much without any accelerator.
And as others above have said, your experiences are felt by everyone at the early stages of learning. I remember my first two lessons went great, felt i'd be driving and passing a test by lesson 3, then lesson 3 comes around and everything seems to go wrong, i couldn't seem to get the clutch right, i was forgetting to check my mirrors, couldn't change down through the gears, for that 1 hour lesson everything went wrong. But the thing is, you just have to learn from your mistakes and carry on.
Best of luck OP

Thanks for the vote of confidence!

Yeah, I realise now I was expecting too much from myself, I had my standards set too high, I thought I was better than I actually was, then when I found out I wasn't, well my ego took a bit of a battering along the way along with my confidence!

A break away from the car, catching up on the posts on here, and a session today has cured all that though!

I'm more eager than ever now to get to my next lesson and see how I get on and learn new things.

Everything's exciting and new again!

DancingDaisy wrote: »

All I can say is don't worry about it. It happens to almost everybody. I had a similar experience in the first couple of weeks when I was learning the basics. My first time out with my dad was great. Could move off and everything, and the next time I went out with him I could do nothing right. It's just one of those things.

You may also find that with an instructor it takes time. Was the instructors car different to the one you practice in with your dad? This could make all the difference, as the clutch and accelerator is different in almost every car, so it can take a while to get used to this.

I know when I first switched from my car, to my instructors car and then back again, I had issues with the clutch.

Just keep plugging away at it. Remember to only start accelerating when you have lifted your foot of the clutch and start to feel the car trying to move, and it is often possible to see the front of the bonnet to rise slightly at the biting point. When you get to the biting point, keep a constant pressure on the accelerator and slowly lift your foot from the clutch. This works for me anyhow.

Hope this helps.

Thanks so much for the advice Dasiy, yes, it helps lots!

I'll definitely keep your points in mind for next time, I guess each time it'll get easier and become that bit more naturally to me.

Gosh, this is by far the friendliest forum I've come across on Boards! You guys are great!

Sorry for being such a moody mare the last day, I let my ego get the better of me.

Thanks so much to all who replied, your comments were all appreciated and very helpful! Be assured I'm taking all your advise onboard and will put them into action when I next get the chance!

I'll keep you all updated of how I get on.. The ongoing saga chronicles of pandamoanium in her quest to master an automobile!

Thanks guys! x

Alanstrainor

That was one hell of a reply!:eek::eek:
Glad to hear you got on okay, best of luck with everything now!