Stupid Smart Women

giddybootz

shellyboo wrote: »

Smart does not equal interested in current affairs. Like I say, I read a lot of newspapers, I'm a journalist, I have to. But once I get out of the office I don't watch a tap of news because not only have I been doing it all day, but... snore. I have more interesting things to think about and talk to people about. I'm not running down current affairs as boring, I'm just personally more passionate about my friends and talking with them, about them, what's happening in their lives, other people's lives... things that are real to me, close to home, as opposed to the big wide world.

Are you my twin?

i am the exact same. used to do a radio show about current affairs and we had to come up with a section to keep me interested coz all the doom and gloom and snore of the papers.....Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

but i would still consider myself a smart woman who has plenty to say on topics of interest.

Permabear

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Nuravictus

shellyboo wrote: »

Meh, I happen to agree with you, but we grammar nazis have a bad enough name with out preying on innocent bystanders

Anyone who wants to point my terrible grammar out will have to deal with Shellyboo my defender now

Go get them champ :P

donegalfella wrote: »

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How so, I have been bad at the written word all my life. We all have our weak & strong points. My main issue my mind rushs ahead when I type & I put the wrong word or something totally wrong in. I came here to have a conversation on this topic to get people thinking about it. There has been many woman who agree & disagree with me. Whether the context or grammar I used is correct it doesnt matter because the topic is still valid.

Permabear

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Snowie

leave the god dam grammer out of it not everyone is great at it..

Also buy the way the op worded things The asomption could be he's froma nother country...
eather way its unfair to attack peopels a blity to use ,,,, and .... and''''' and -... I can't spell that well at all but i do make the effort...

People who point out things and only these things should be banned from boards ....

partyguinness

donegalfella wrote: »

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Bad grammer in real life is unacceptable and it drives me mad. But on the internet there has to be some allowances for the fact most of us are probably at work and writting quickly This does not allow much time for spelling checks.

Taking issue with bad grammer etc on a forum is just petty (and anally retentive) when it does not alter the point being made by the poster.

Get over it.:rolleyes:

stovelid

shellyboo wrote: »

Meh, I happen to agree with you, but we grammar nazis have a bad enough name without preying on innocent bystanders

You do indeed.

/edit: I only do this to grammar Nazis

Dudess

Nuravictus wrote: »

My social circle or rather people I know & meet consists of many doctors & engineers. They are woman and they are very smart because most of them hold an Honours Degree. The issue comes with the fact if I asked them some point of common knowledge on something goings on in the world, I get the Smile of despair, where they laugh the question off as if it wasn’t a question at all. I wouldn’t worry if it was one or two woman but it’s all of them.

However there is a good way to get woman into a debate on matters of abortion, you all go mad when that comes up but the other topics like religion, politics & general goings on in the world woman in general seem to think it’s better to be ignorance of these things. I know thats a very large generalisation but it is true to my experience.

And mine frankly. I rarely have conversations with females about politics etc, whereas I regularly have them with males. And yeah, those females are smart and educated.

Nuravictus

Anyhow lets get this back on subject.

gogglebok

monkeyfudge wrote: »

I do come across smart women who dumb themselves down a lot though. It's usually so they can fit into a certain social grouping where they're surrounded by dumb people who only discuss soaps and reality TV shows.

Intelligent conversation is based on the nature of the the talk rather than its subject, surely? An intelligent conversation about soap or reality tv is more intelligent than a dumb chat about Gaza.

Is it possible that men will value a loud rant about politics more than whatever "ordinary" conversation they interrupted with it?

I also think a lot of the silence of women during heated conversations is because they're used to not getting a word in. Men are gobsmackingly rude to women in conversation, as a matter of routine. Or, to put that more neutrally, men and women have different types of conversational etiquette which can result in male monopoly of the discussion.

stovelid

Maybe it's an age thing, as well as gender. I read about politics and current affairs a lot, but it's mostly a private matter for my own understanding and pleasure. The exception to this rule is probably online discussion. I always associate intense politcial debates in social situations with being in my early/mid twenties or being a student. I still consider the issues and keep abreast of them, but I don't feel the need to 'debate' (read: project) my views in social situations as much.

For example, my primary degree was in English, and several of my close friends are academics, some well known in their field. Despite being interested in literature and theory, we rarely discuss it socially amongst ourselves. I'd rather talk more interpersonally with them when we do meet up.

Galvasean

Nuravictus wrote: »

We all have our weak & strong points.

Like current affairs, history and politics?

brianthebard

donegalfella wrote: »

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I'd like to split your compound hur hur hur....

Permabear

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spinandscribble

Why is there never a thread like this on men? Are smart women suppose to be knowledgeable in everything?

Permabear

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g'em

brianthebard wrote: »

I'd like to split your compound hur hur hur....

donegalfella wrote: »

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tLL' own Beavis and Butthead. Hilarious. And yet I'm not laughing.

Can we quit the grammar Nazi quibbling and stay on topic please?

Nuravictus

g'em wrote: »

tLL' own Beavis and Butthead. Hilarious. And yet I'm not laughing.

Were does that make me

LolaLuv

spinandscribble wrote: »

Why is there never a thread like this on men? Are smart women suppose to be knowledgeable in everything?

Ha, I thought the same thing when I first read this. There are plenty of men who have no common sense at all, but no one accuses them of doing it for attention or anything.

Anyway, I'm probably one of these women. I'm smart but I hate the news and all that and like having fun too much to always go around trying to start intellectual debates. Also, I'm far too secure in my intelligence to need to go around proving it all the time. Perhaps this is something you should think about?

Nuravictus

PillyPen wrote: »

Ha, I thought the same thing when I first read this. There are plenty of men who have no common sense at all, but no one accuses them of doing it for attention or anything.

Anyway, I'm probably one of these women. I'm smart but I hate the news and all that and like having fun too much to always go around trying to start intellectual debates. Also, I'm far too secure in my intelligence to need to go around proving it all the time. Perhaps this is something you should think about?

I like having fun too but maybe debate encourages new views & prospectives. Why do people have forums, its because we want to exchange idea's concepts & viewpoints. Whether it be on the points I stated or on working out, clubbing or sex. Debate is something humans do.

LolaLuv

Nuravictus wrote: »

I like having fun too but maybe debate encourages new views & prospectives. Why do people have forums, its because we want to exchange idea's concepts & viewpoints. Whether it be on the points I stated or on working out, clubbing or sex. Debate is something humans do.

I agree, but it seems like you're judging people pretty harshly on whether or not they'll debate with you. Maybe that's why they won't do it. Debates are much nicer when they're spontaneous and respectful, not an obvious attempt to gauge the opposition's intellectual capacity.

partyguinness

OP- as you said your friends are highly educated etc..but to be honest they probably want to switch off when out socialising..not everybody wants to debate the Islamic fundamentalism in the pub on a Froday night and that does not make them "stupid".

Nuravictus

PillyPen wrote: »

I agree, but it seems like you're judging people pretty harshly on whether or not they'll debate with you. Maybe that's why they won't do it. Debates are much nicer when they're spontaneous and respectful, not an obvious attempt to gauge the opposition's intellectual capacity.

I don't always start the debates, I might be sitting on the sidelines as well listening before I say anything. Sometimes I can't get a word in. Most of the time when woman are there they never say anything.

LolaLuv

Nuravictus wrote: »

I don't always start the debates, I might be sitting on the sidelines as well listening before I say anything. Sometimes I can't get a word in. Most of the time when woman are there they never say anything.

That's odd. Maybe it's the men you hang out with. I will say, I have a harder time getting women to debate with me than men. I think a lot of it is the way we're socialized. (Waiting to be dragged over the coals for that! :pac:)

Nuravictus

PillyPen wrote: »

That's odd. Maybe it's the men you hang out with. I will say, I have a harder time getting women to debate with me than men. I think a lot of it is the way we're socialized. (Waiting to be dragged over the coals for that! :pac:)

Well I can agree with you, debate doesnt really have a place when you can be doing more fun things but it can be fun & interesting thou.

I don't go clubbing & start talking about something out of the blue because thats not normal. I have a chat & a laugh then go dance or get a drink.

Permabear

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LolaLuv

donegalfella wrote: »

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I think you have a point there in your last paragraph, could be true. And I don't think debates aren't fun, but they can be awfully intense. Sometimes intense isn't as good a time. Nothing brings down the mood faster than two people getting their panties in a bunch over something completely inconsequential to the evening at hand...not my idea of fun. Disagreements in general aren't fun to me, and it's exceedingly rare to come across someone who can debate without being a douchebag.

Nuravictus

donegalfella wrote: »

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I used to be like that but I realised it was my duty to get informed so I know the whole deal now from the 2006 war & all the history.

Permabear

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spinandscribble

PillyPen wrote: »

Ha, I thought the same thing when I first read this. There are plenty of men who have no common sense at all, but no one accuses them of doing it for attention or anything.

Anyway, I'm probably one of these women. I'm smart but I hate the news and all that and like having fun too much to always go around trying to start intellectual debates. Also, I'm far too secure in my intelligence to need to go around proving it all the time. Perhaps this is something you should think about?

i'll have to rub my own back and agree with you. I have plenty of things i'd like to discuss but very few people i've met like to discuss the same topics that get my back arched. I don't think its just women and although i rarely pull out my feminism card (its pink with glitter btw) i think its required here.

thanked donegalfella for the point about some men being more likely then women to claim expertise, i've noticed that too. not to say women don't do so as well but men seem to have the market covered in that front.

LolaLuv

donegalfella wrote: »

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Yep, that's why I usually don't get into debates. I love to exchange ideas and learn about how other people think. That's probably my #1 favorite thing in life right now, but generally debates are the worst way to go about that, because they become competitions as opposed to exchanges.

I don't do small talk, either, but it's isn't as though the choice is between solving cold fusion or discussing the weather. Asking people about themselves is guaranteed to keep their interest, and (if they're fascinating enough), yours as well. Even if they're boring fecks, getting a glimpse into someone else's thought process is always a great time. There are very few people I can't have a conversation with. The trick is to let them guide it and do most of the talking.

spinandscribble wrote: »

i'll have to rub my own back and agree with you. I have plenty of things i'd like to discuss but very few people i've met like to discuss the same topics that get my back arched. I don't think its just women and although i rarely pull out my feminism card (its pink with glitter btw) i think its required here.

thanked donegalfella for the point about some men being more likely then women to claim expertise, i've noticed that too. not to say women don't do so as well but men seem to have the market covered in that front.

Mine's pink with glitter, too!

Permabear

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Monkey61

I think it comes down to people's personal interests really. For those who are intensely interested in current affairs and politics, it seems unbelievable that anybody wouldn't be. Ditto those who are obsessed with music/ sport etcetera.

I used to work with a girl who was absolutely obsessed with history and politics, in the middle of her PhD on 19th century Russian travel literature and could discourse and debate endlessly on any political subject. Yet she had absolutely no interest in music, had never owned a CD, listened to music on the radio or on television. To me that seemed absolutely ridiculous. Music is one of the most important things in my life and I can't imagine somebody not finding it interesting - but she just didn't.

So it is very possible that many people you meet, quite validly, just don't have an interest in that area. Perhaps all the educated and professional women you meet would rather discuss croquet, racing cars, science fiction novels or the plight of Spanish donkeys. Perhaps your conversation on current affairs just holds no interest for them - bizarre as that may seem because it's an enthusiastic interest of yours.

Interestingly though, I have met very few men with an interest in history and politics and always would have found it more women's interest - purely going by the people I have met. Bizarre.

shellyboo

donegalfella wrote: »

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Excellent point, donegalfella. All to often you'll be in the middle of one of these debates and half the people are just spouting utter nonsense. To turn around and go, 'actually the facts are xyz so that completely invalidates your point' makes you look like a pretentious knob, though.

PillyPen wrote: »

I think you have a point there in your last paragraph, could be true. And I don't think debates aren't fun, but they can be awfully intense. Sometimes intense isn't as good a time. Nothing brings down the mood faster than two people getting their panties in a bunch over something completely inconsequential to the evening at hand...not my idea of fun. Disagreements in general aren't fun to me, and it's exceedingly rare to come across someone who can debate without being a douchebag.

My sentiments exactly. I personally get quite invested in debates and arguments, I get genuinely worked up if I think someone is wrong or not taking my point - so that's another reason I avoid topical debate, because I can't walk away from it not caring, as I see others doing.

donegalfella wrote: »

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I hate making small talk too - but worse than that is small town talk I'm from rural Donegal as well, living in Dublin, and I'd far rather have to prattle to someone down here about the news than listen to Biddy in teh butcher's telling Paddy that isn't it wile that there's so many people from their road dead and where does the time go and did you see such and a wan didn't go to mass this morning and her sister in law's aunt up in the hospital and all. :rolleyes:

Permabear

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shellyboo

donegalfella wrote: »

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Next time it happens to me I'm going to ask them about the Israeli Crisis

partyguinness

Rural Donegal...christ shellyboo man I am sorry..you should have said earlier..:eek: we would have cut you some slack

Permabear

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CeilingCat

donegalfella wrote: »

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+1
Very valid point. I'd be the kind to keep my mouth shut if I wasn't 100% sure I had my facts straight.... damn sure I'd go home and google it, but I wouldn't just wade in there uninformed - and that's because women tend to get slated for daring to enter a conversation about something they know *nothing* about.

shellyboo wrote: »

Excellent point, donegalfella. All to often you'll be in the middle of one of these debates and half the people are just spouting utter nonsense. To turn around and go, 'actually the facts are xyz so that completely invalidates your point' makes you look like a pretentious knob, though.

+1 again... have you found that men don't take as kindly to a woman actually being well informed as they do to a man being well informed? This has been my experience. So, they don't like it when you do know what you're talking about and they'll slate you if you don't. No pleasing them at all at all... :P

I don't know about the Look Of Despair - maybe the Look Of 'ah jaysus tell me he's not going to start a ranty discussion about politics on my night off from my very demanding and intellectually challenging job when all I want to do is talk about ordinary stuff....' :eek:

tech77

donegalfella wrote: »

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^QFT.
That's a large part of it tbh.

A good part is a male cultural "need" to be seen to be knowledgeable about world events as much as anything else.
Women, i'd guess are less affected by this need.

The Sweeper

I don't dumb down my conversation for anyone.

But in a relaxed social setting, I generally find that men don't want to hear anything I have to contribute on any current affairs topic. They're not interested in my thoughts on deep and meaningful subject matter. They don't care for any parallels I would draw between current and past conflicts, current and past economic crises or current and past world leaders.

They want me to look pretty and shut up so they can stare at my tits without having to repeatedly look at my face while I try to engage them in something more than 'nice shoes, are you single'.

If I'm a stupid smart woman, it's only because I persist in trying to hold conversations of substance with disinterested men.

Nevyn

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

I don't dumb down my conversation for anyone.

Same here.

LolaLuv

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

But in a relaxed social setting, I generally find that men don't want to hear anything I have to contribute on any current affairs topic. They're not interested in my thoughts on deep and meaningful subject matter. They don't care for any parallels I would draw between current and past conflicts, current and past economic crises or current and past world leaders.

I agree with this, to a certain extent. There are some men like that, but there are plenty of women who don't want to hear what I have to say, either. In my experience, if a guy thinks I'm pretty then finding out I'm smart is almost always a bonus in his eyes. That applies to quality guys. I wouldn't waste a whole lot of time on guys who felt otherwise.

It seems like sort of an unfair generalization to say that men don't want to hear what you have to say simply because you're female, when clearly all men can't possibly be turned off by an intellectual woman. It probably has more to do with the setting.

Stheno

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

I don't dumb down my conversation for anyone.

But in a relaxed social setting, I generally find that men don't want to hear anything I have to contribute on any current affairs topic. They're not interested in my thoughts on deep and meaningful subject matter. They don't care for any parallels I would draw between current and past conflicts, current and past economic crises or current and past world leaders.

They want me to look pretty and shut up so they can stare at my tits without having to repeatedly look at my face while I try to engage them in something more than 'nice shoes, are you single'.

If I'm a stupid smart woman, it's only because I persist in trying to hold conversations of substance with disinterested men.

+1 I had the most peculiar experience at one social occasion, where my ex partners friends, not having seen him at the time, asked what he was working at, then turned to me, and asked the same.

Upon being told that I did x in company y, a look of horror came across said man, and he replied (without thinking), "but, but, don't y have a reputation for hiring bright people?"

I gave up and went back to smiling vacuously for the day, admiring the other ladies outfits, shoes, accessories, and handbags, sharing makeup and cosmetics tips, googoo gahgahing at the babies present *shudder* and discussing the merits of various hairdressers.

I also find that having finished working, I've no real interest in sitting down and engaging my brain having conversations about subjects that don't really interest me. As part of being prepared for work, and social occasions which arise from work, I do keep up with current affairs, business and technology developments, but don't try and engage me on those subjects when I'm out having a few drinks or a relaxing dinner I've done my forty plus hours, thanks very much It's not so much a dumbing down on my part, more that I know associate having that knowledge/info as part of work, and I want to spend my free time relaxing

And one small thing that I have noted on a couple of occasions, is that often those who seem to feel the need to discuss current affairs/politics/business etc in a relaxed social setting are those who for some reason feel the need to display a greater "intellectual/knowledgable" ability than many others around them.

That is just mho

fits

So which came first, the chicken or the egg?

I agree with Pillypen, I dont think I'd be interested in engaging in conversation with a person in the first place, who would discount my opinion because of my gender.

dfx-

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

I don't dumb down my conversation for anyone.

But in a relaxed social setting, I generally find that men don't want to hear anything I have to contribute on any current affairs topic. They're not interested in my thoughts on deep and meaningful subject matter. They don't care for any parallels I would draw between current and past conflicts, current and past economic crises or current and past world leaders.

They want me to look pretty and shut up so they can stare at my tits without having to repeatedly look at my face while I try to engage them in something more than 'nice shoes, are you single'.

If I'm a stupid smart woman, it's only because I persist in trying to hold conversations of substance with disinterested men.

*smile of despair*

Dimitri

cuckoo wrote: »

I think the OP does have a point....not about the 'look of despair' though.

*ducks*

No, really. It saddens me, and angers me, when i sometimes find myself doing it. Somehow i have less of a belief in my opinions and worldview than the majority of men that i know. I'll still argue my case, ask questions and hold forth, but i'm not as sure of my views as men of my acquaintance.

Maybe i'm just being drowned out by their louder, deeper voices. Or, maybe they're more comfortable with turning it into a battlefield and fighting their corner.

/pulls on Hat of Generalisation

When current affairs are being discussed my experience has been that men are more likely to use the phrase "no, you're wrong", and women are more likely to attack the opinion, eg, "no, that's the wrong way of looking at it".

I have to note that this would be far more in line with what i experience, now this is generalisation on a massive scale but when i've been involved in a current affairs/political/religious discussion and a wmoen or women are also involved they tend not to put forward their own views or opinions. On the occasions that they do it tends to be more of a point/counter arguement phrased as a question rather than phrased outright. I've never taken this to be ignorance i just assumed that the people who didn't speak either had no interest or little knowledge on the subject and were content to listen as i am on certain topics, however those who ventured a point raised as a question i always took to be politeness, raising their point without belittleing your point of view. I feel the op's post is a bit random is assuming women are shutting up because he is there!

Dimitri

But in a relaxed social setting, I generally find that men don't want to hear anything I have to contribute on any current affairs topic. They're not interested in my thoughts on deep and meaningful subject matter. They don't care for any parallels I would draw between current and past conflicts, current and past economic crises or current and past world leaders.

I wouldn't say its because your a woman thats saying it but because whenever anyone links a current affairs problem with a parrallel historical problem properly it becomes pretty obvious we should've seen it coming. People like to convince themselves that they were completely blindsided by something (especially when its an economic problem) when in fact they just ignored the warning signs at their peril. I reckon their dismissing your opinion not because your a womwn but because your right.

Blush_01

There are varying degrees of the "stupid smart woman" phenomenon. Smart women often dumb themselves down pretty substantially for other women too.

Stheno

Blush_01 wrote: »

There are varying degrees of the "stupid smart woman" phenomenon. Smart women often dumb themselves down pretty substantially for other women too.

Hmm I work with a few incredibly smart women, depends on what you mean by dumbing down I suppose, but I respect them as colleagues and people with sharp minds.

Doesn't stop any of them from enjoying things like shoes/clothes/a giggle about male colleagues/whatever.

Doesn't stop me from respecting them either