17. Nani

Carroller16

As a United fan I have lost my patience with Nani. I feel he has been underperforming in recent weeks and last night v Derby was the final straw... Nearly every single ball he put into the area floated over everyone's head and back out the other side.

There was much hype surrounding him when he first came to United. He scored one or two crackers notably against M'boro & Spurs at OT but since then has looked awful on the left side of midfield and after giving him chance after chance my mind is finally made up, he has to go. JSP is currently our best option here and Tosic should be ready in a month.

/rant over

So do you think it's Nani should go at the end of the season??

leninbenjamin

a month for Tosic? lol...

remember it took Evra and Vidic 6 months before they were up to the job, and they were already pretty experienced at that stage.

_blank_

There's a dedicated Manchester United thread tbh.

spockety

Who's we? The entire soccer forum of boards.ie?

Mitch Connor

Des wrote: »

There's a dedicated Manchester United thread tbh.

Can you explain how to put polls into threads like the United one please? Would love to be able to do it, but didn't think it was possible.

astrofool

Oh noes, a thread that doesn't conform to the strict guidelines permeating the soccer forum, whatever shall we do...

On Nani, fans are fickle, he'll find his feet soon enough, he's still young enough to keep on learning, and he'll weigh in with a few crucial goals between now and the end of the season, he'll have another couple of years at OT before they make their mind up long term with him. Second season syndrome, which he'll get over.

Boggles

Carroller16 wrote: »

As a United fan I have lost my patience with Nani. I feel he has been underperforming in recent weeks and last night v Derby was the final straw...

He has played only 19 minutes of league football in 8 games, the last time he started a match was November 1st, against Hull where he actually was very good, putting in some dangerous crosses and setting up Ronaldo for his second.

That leaves 4 games

Aab - United weren't interested.
Blackburn - He scored
Southampton - Thought he was one of the better United players, he scored

and last night, where he was bad but there were about 8 ahead of him.

You looking for a scapegoat by any chance?

redout

astrofool wrote: »

Oh noes, a thread that doesn't conform to the strict guidelines permeating the soccer forum, whatever shall we do...

On Nani, fans are fickle, he'll find his feet soon enough, he's still young enough to keep on learning, and he'll weigh in with a few crucial goals between now and the end of the season, he'll have another couple of years at OT before they make their mind up long term with him. Second season syndrome, which he'll get over.

I thought that was only applicable if you had a good first season !

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

You looking for a scapegoat by any chance?

in fairness, Utd fans were very split of him before last night.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

in fairness, Utd fans were very split of him before last night.

The OP lost patience in the past few weeks, I pointed out he hasn't been playing and when he has it has been in meaningless or cup matches, where he has actually done quite well.

Quint

IT seems to me that every time he gets the ball, he either takes a shot looses possession. Surprised fergie hasn't given him the hairdryer treatment a few times with the amount of times he gives the ball away

Iago

The problem with Nani is his total lack of a football brain. I submitted a post months ago saying that I didn't think he was good enough for United, and I still hold to that opinion.

When he's on the ball he consistently picks the wrong option open to him, I would go so far as to pluck a number of out the air and say he does it at least 80% of the time when in a critical attacking position. If you compare him to say a Beckham, Giggs or Scholes at the same age and with the same experience (remember he had two seasons at Sporting prior to United) then you can see he's miles off where he should be. To put it another way both Ronaldo and Rooney are only a year older than him, but are a good 5-6 years ahead of him in a footballing sense.

As I see it the biggest problem United have is that most of these things either come naturally or you don't get them. Knowing when to pick a pass or when to drive at a full-back, when to cut inside and when to fire an early cross over. Being aware of the options around you as soon as you get the ball etc... far too often when Nani gets the ball he's only lifting his head after he's controlled it, and he won't get that kind of space in the premier league.

Regardless of anything else, when he's playing against the likes of Hull and Derby (with all due respect to both sets of players) he should be absoultely destroying them without a huge amount of effort. If he can't do that then I don't believe he's good enough for United.

At the same time it took Ronaldo a few years to settle in as well, so maybe he'll come good yet. His problem is that he started a lot later.


btw: Although I voted yes to the poll I'm not really sure we should sell him at the end of the season. Moreso becuase we'd be lucky to get 5 million for him given his performances over the last season and a bit.

Melion

He's awful, United should get rid of him this summer.

Boggles

Iago wrote: »

The problem with Nani is his total lack of a football brain. I submitted a post months ago saying that I didn't think he was good enough for United, and I still hold to that opinion.

When he's on the ball he consistently picks the wrong option open to him, I would go so far as to pluck a number of out the air and say he does it at least 80% of the time when in a critical attacking position. If you compare him to say a Beckham, Giggs or Scholes at the same age and with the same experience (remember he had two seasons at Sporting prior to United) then you can see he's miles off where he should be. To put it another way both Ronaldo and Rooney are only a year older than him, but are a good 5-6 years ahead of him in a footballing sense.

As I see it the biggest problem United have is that most of these things either come naturally or you don't get them. Knowing when to pick a pass or when to drive at a full-back, when to cut inside and when to fire an early cross over. Being aware of the options around you as soon as you get the ball etc... far too often when Nani gets the ball he's only lifting his head after he's controlled it, and he won't get that kind of space in the premier league.

Regardless of anything else, when he's playing against the likes of Hull and Derby (with all due respect to both sets of players) he should be absoultely destroying them without a huge amount of effort. If he can't do that then I don't believe he's good enough for United.

At the same time it took Ronaldo a few years to settle in as well, so maybe he'll come good yet. His problem is that he started a lot later.


btw: Although I voted yes to the poll I'm not really sure we should sell him at the end of the season. Moreso becuase we'd be lucky to get 5 million for him given his performances over the last season and a bit.

Out of 25 starts last season he had 4 goals and 11 assists hardly awful.

He has started only 2 league games this season, 1 goal 2 assists, hardly awful.

We were lucky enough to get Ronaldo young, but there were fans chirping when he was 18 months through his long term contract that he should go.

Nani is infuriating at times, and does do the wrong thing an awful lot of times, but he does good as well and that can't be overlooked, he strikes me as immature for his age and quite stupid, but he does have a great first touch, pace to burn and can be deadly from set pieces, something United need badly. Ferguson didn't get this far by writing off youth and talent especially so early into their United careers.

Nani was an investment for the future (Fergusons own words) you don't write investments off without giving them a fair crack of the whip.

If United sold him now, they wouldn't see a return, no harm keeping him and see how he develops, I'd be more worried about Anderson to be honest, as we will become more exposed in the centre in the next year or 2.

keane2097

I wouldn't sell him this season because he might improve yet and we'd probably get ****e all money for him at this stage anyway...

Royale with Cheese

Melion wrote: »

He's awful, United should get rid of him this summer.

+1. One of the biggest wastes of money in recent years.

deisedevil

Iago wrote: »

When he's on the ball he consistently picks the wrong option open to him

That's exactly his problem. I have been saying it since he came to the club, he rarely picks the right option and he's selfish, along with being a bit of a brat, but i wouldn't care about that if he started to play well. At the beginning I was defending him saying he needed time but now I'm starting to wonder if it's just time he needs or if he's ever going to start doing the right thing at the right time.

Boggles

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

+1. One of the biggest wastes of money in recent years.

What absolute twaddle.

His first season he contributed his bit to a side that won the Prem League and European cup.

eZe^

Patience I say, he hasn't even been in the squad for two seasons, and he is still very young, he is still learning, reserve judgement until this time next season...

Boggles

eZe^ wrote: »

Patience I say, he hasn't even been in the squad for two seasons, and he is still very young, he is still learning, reserve judgement until this time next season...

Thats the problem with some fans eZe, I know there are people on here that would gladly see the back of Tevez, it baffles me at times.

Royale with Cheese

Boggles wrote: »

What absolute twaddle.

His first season he contributed his bit to a side that won the Prem League and European cup.

Keep telling yourself that. £15m of shíte.

Boggles

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Keep telling yourself that. £15m of shíte.

Don't need to keep saying it to myself, he is here on my desktop with the rest of the team beside both trophies.

eZe^

Boggles wrote: »

Thats the problem with some fans eZe, I know there are people on here that would gladly see the back of Tevez, it baffles me at times.

I think the most important thing to see with Nani is he has all the raw materials to be one of the best wingers in Europe. He is quick, can cross the ball, has a powerful shot and is a good dribbler. I actually think he'll be more like an Arjen Robben than Ronaldo.

Decision making seems to be what most people here are giving out about and want him excommunicated for. Well, decision making is something that he will learn in time from being around experienced players like Scholes, Ferdinand, VDS and Ronaldo. He hasn't even reached his second season in one of the big world leagues and people are writing him off, at 22? Didn't he contribute to about 12 goals last year, whether through goals or assists, he has shown more than enough promise to warrant at least another season before people cast him out of Manchester.

I would be much more concerned if he had good decision making but none of the raw skills, as it is much harder to develop your game in that form.

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

His first season he contributed his bit to a side that won the Prem League and European cup.

now hold on, you cant use that silly logic for everything.

if Utd had paid 20million for JOS last season would that have meant he was worth it?

If you say "yes", you should be arrested.

eZe^

Mr Alan wrote: »

now hold on, you cant use that silly logic for everything.

if Utd had paid 20million for JOS last season would that have meant he was worth it?

If you say "yes", you should be arrested.

I don't think Boggles is trying to say that Nani deserves a little slack because he was a part of a title winning squad. More like he deserves extra time because he was a very important part of that title winning squad. He contributed some important goals and assists last season, and given his age and relative n00b status he should be cut a little bit of slack.

Melion

Boggles wrote: »

What absolute twaddle.

His first season he contributed his bit to a side that won the Prem League and European cup.

Stupid reasoning

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

now hold on, you cant use that silly logic for everything.

if Utd had paid 20million for JOS last season would that have meant he was worth it?

If you say "yes", you should be arrested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJqs4OFsiKA

Iago

Boggles wrote: »

Out of 25 starts last season he had 4 goals and 11 assists hardly awful.

He has started only 2 league games this season, 1 goal 2 assists, hardly awful.

We were lucky enough to get Ronaldo young, but there were fans chirping when he was 18 months through his long term contract that he should go.

Nani is infuriating at times, and does do the wrong thing an awful lot of times, but he does good as well and that can't be overlooked, he strikes me as immature for his age and quite stupid, but he does have a great first touch, pace to burn and can be deadly from set pieces, something United need badly. Ferguson didn't get this far by writing off youth and talent especially so early into their United careers.

Nani was an investment for the future (Fergusons own words) you don't write investments off without giving them a fair crack of the whip.

If United sold him now, they wouldn't see a return, no harm keeping him and see how he develops, I'd be more worried about Anderson to be honest, as we will become more exposed in the centre in the next year or 2.

I didn't say he was awful, I said the exact same thing you did. The fact is that at his current level of delivery he isn't good enough for United, and he's rapidly running out of time to chnage peoples minds. I also stated that maybe he'll come good, but I think he's struggling to cope with being in Ronaldos shadow and the lack of time and space he gets in the premier league. That is something he has to overcome himself and change his game, but to date he has seemed incapable of it.

eZe^

Iago wrote: »

I didn't say he was awful, I said the exact same thing you did. The fact is that at his current level of delivery he isn't good enough for United, and he's rapidly running out of time to chnage peoples minds. I also stated that maybe he'll come good, but I think he's struggling to cope with being in Ronaldos shadow and the lack of time and space he gets in the premier league. That is something he has to overcome himself and change his game, but to date he has seemed incapable of it.

It took Ronaldo 3 seasons to climatise to the premier league, Nani has barely been given 1.5. I guarantee in time if you persevere with Nani it'll pay off.

Boggles

Iago wrote: »

and he's rapidly running out of time to chnage peoples minds.

Why is he running out of time?

He has played nearly exclusively in the 3 cup competitions this season, 3 competitions United are still in.

His last 5 matches have yielded 2 goals and 1 assist?

Mr Alan

eZe^ wrote: »

I don't think Boggles is trying to say that Nani deserves a little slack because he was a part of a title winning squad. More like he deserves extra time because he was a very important part of that title winning squad. He contributed some important goals and assists last season, and given his age and relative n00b status he should be cut a little bit of slack.

Nah Eze, Boggles comes out with this crazy logic occassionally. players being great/worth their fee cause of stuff they've won etc, even if they had a small part to play in it. (minuscule even) Yes Nani was involved in goals for Utd last year, i'd imagine any winger/corner specialist signed for that amount of money would be involved in goals.

note i am not saying i think Utd should sell him. But he has been poor.

Boggles wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJqs4OFsiKA

can't see that vid in work so dont know wat it is.

thank god.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

Nah Eze, Boggles comes out with this crazy logic occassionally. players being great/worth their fee cause of stuff they've won etc, even if they had a small part to play in it. (minuscule even) Yes Nani was involved in goals for Utd last year, i'd imagine any winger/corner specialist signed for that amount of money would be involved in goals.

note i am not saying i think Utd should sell him. But he has been poor.

Not crazy logic, replied to some genius stating he was the worst signing in recent years, something yourself disagree on.

Mr Alan wrote: »

can't see that vid in work so dont know wat it is.

thank god.

Have a look later, you will love it.

keane2097

I guess at United we've been very spoiled with the way our young players in the last few years settled in and became big time players so quickly.

I think people forget that the likes of Rooney, Ronaldo, Fabregas and young guys like that are talented to a point of almost being generational freaks.

Sure Nani is not very much younger than Rooney and Ronaldo, but maybe that means he'll just turn into a very good player instead of a freakishly good one...

Boggles

keane2097 wrote: »

I guess at United we've been very spoiled with the way our young players in the last few years settled in and became big time players so quickly.

I think people forget that the likes of Rooney, Ronaldo, Fabregas and young guys like that are talented to a point of almost being generational freaks.

Sure Nani is not very much younger than Rooney and Ronaldo, but maybe that means he'll just turn into a very good player instead of a freakishly good one...

Exactly, I don't think the Yardstick should be Fabragas or Ronaldo, because like you said they are freaks.

Mr Alan

dont wanna get Ot, but Rooney is not freakishly good.

only thing freakish about him is his head.

accept you point about Ronaldo & Fabregas though, its not fair to judge players by comparing them to those two.

Boggles

Thanks to Archimedes for these links.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...hlight=Ronaldo

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...hlight=Ronaldo

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...hlight=Ronaldo

"People are idiots, and most of them havent a clue what potential is."

Melion

I dont understand the point of you showing us those threads

Boggles

Melion wrote: »

I dont understand the point of you showing us those threads

That doesn't surprise me. :pac:

FutureGuy

eZe^ wrote: »

It took Ronaldo 3 seasons to climatise to the premier league, Nani has barely been given 1.5. I guarantee in time if you persevere with Nani it'll pay off.

Exactly. 1.5 years into Ronaldos OT days, I was calling for him to be dropped for the same reasons as stated before...picking the wrong option and putting in less-than-stellar performances.

The problem is, I cannot seem him getting a consistent run in the side with Park and Tosic in the same position. Therefore, I don't think we will ever see the best of him.

Mr Alan

LOL El Rabitos posts in those threads are funny

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

LOL El Rabitos posts in those threads are funny

el rabitos wrote: »

thats fine, just dont expect man utd to be winning any significant trophy with him in their side.

to win matches u need the ball, and if u lose it in a big european game, ur lucky to get it back for long periods of time

eZe^

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Watch Messi's development over the past 5 seasons. His first two he would try to dribble every player on the pitch and score a goal. In his first three seasons he had a total of 7 assits. Last season and half of this season he has 22. Now he realises passing can be more effective than dribbling, he had all the raw talent at his disposal but his decision making improved due to experience and playing around Xavi, Eto'o, Ronaldinho, etc.

shane86

eZe^ wrote: »

It took Ronaldo 3 seasons to climatise to the premier league, Nani has barely been given 1.5. I guarantee in time if you persevere with Nani it'll pay off.

Indeed. Nani will be a class act in time.


If I were a red Id be more concerned about getting rid of that lump of spuds Anderson.

Mr Alan

i'd be more concerned about Anderson too tbh if i was a Utd fan.

_blank_

Mr Alan wrote: »

i'd be more concerned about Anderson too tbh if i was a Utd fan.

Anderson is going to be an absolutely brilliant player.

World Player of The Year inside 5 years.

He is actually a phenomonal talent.

Mr Alan

you're a nut Des.

he was good for 6 months when he came. he has been a stocking of ****e since.

World player of the year for the next 5-10 years will be contested by the likes of Aguero,Gerrard,Ronaldo,Eto'o,Essien,Torres,Fabregas,Messi.......players who are regularly outstanding NOW.

not stockings of ****e like that Anderson lad.

eZe^

Des wrote: »

World Player of The Year inside 5 years.

Want to make a wager on that? There's a huge difference between being a brilliant player and being a WPOTY...

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

_blank_

Mr Alan wrote: »

you're a nut Des.

he was good for 6 months when he came. he has been a stocking of ****e since.

World player of the year for the next 5-10 years will be contested by the likes of Aguero,Gerrard,Ronaldo,Eto'o,Essien,Torres,Fabregas,Messi.......players who are outstanding NOW.

not stockings of ****e like that Anderson lad.

Torres will never win the award.

You mark my words.

Never.

Xavi6

Des wrote: »

Torres will never win the award.

You mark my words.

Never.

More of a chance than Anderson anyway.