17. Nani

Melion

I have to agree with Des about Anderson. I said it when United signed the 2 of them that Nani would be gone within 3 years an Anderson would hold that midfield together for the next 10 years. He is class, anyone who seen him before United signed him will know that. He is not playing in his proper position and i think once he gets a long run in the team in an attacking role, you will see the best of him.

keane2097

Mr Alan wrote: »

LOL El Rabitos posts in those threads are funny

Is that Eamonn Dunphy's name on boards?

Mr Alan

how many goals has Anderson (this world class attacking talent) scored since he moved to Utd 18 months ago?

none. zero. zip.

keane2097

Mr Alan wrote: »

World player of the year for the next 5-10 years will be contested by the likes of Aguero,Gerrard,Ronaldo,Eto'o,Essien,Torres,Fabregas,Messi.......players who are outstanding NOW.

not stockings of ****e like that Anderson lad.

By that logic you would have said two or so years ago that Ronaldo would have no chance of winning World Player of the Year as well...

Melion

Mr Alan wrote: »

how many goals has Anderson (this world class attacking talent) scored since he moved to Utd 18 months ago?

none. zero. zip.

How many goals has Lucas got for us? We all defend him in the Liverpool thread by saying he's not being played in the right position

Mr Alan

keane2097 wrote: »

By that logic you would have said two or so years ago that Ronaldo would have no chance of winning World Player of the Year as well...

em, no actually i always feared Ronaldo would become the huge talent he is. i always thought it apparent he had the ability.

Melion wrote: »

How many goals has Lucas got for us? We all defend him in the Liverpool thread by saying he's not being played in the right position

he's got a couple. and Lucas is an out & out midfielder imo. I dont view him as ever being a goal machine. nor do i view him as ever going to be the best player in the world. he is a good midfielder at the minute. with the ability to become a VERY good midfielder. never gonna be the best in the world. plus he cost 5m quid compared to Andersons 18 odd million, not that the price is really relevant, just pointing out why he may be cut a little more slack. I'm not saying Anderson doesnt have the ability to be very good, he clearly does, but at the minute, he is a million miles away from that & actually looks poor a lot of the time

_blank_

lol at even mentioning Lucas in comaprison to Anderson.

just lol.

Mr Alan

your little man crush on Anderson is very amusing Des

Frisbee

Have to say I think Anderson will be a very good player once Fergie decides what kind of player he wants him to be.

His shooting is awful though, absolutely abysmal....

keane2097

Mr Alan wrote: »

em, no actually i always feared Ronaldo would become the huge talent he is. i always thought it apparent he had the ability.

Well what you actually said is that the people who will be winning the WPOTY in the next five years are people who are world class players today.

By that logic (i.e. your logic), Ronaldo shouldn't have been able to win the WPOTY this year as he wasn't a world class player 3 years ago.

You can't have it both ways.

shane86

Des wrote: »

Anderson is going to be an absolutely brilliant player.

World Player of The Year inside 5 years.

He is actually a phenomonal talent.

Lol.

His jumping around celebrating at the end of the CL Final was embarassing seeing as he had **** all to do with them having got there. He was chronically cack in pretty much every match leading to it.


And while I havent watched the Brazil qualifier games the fact they are on their arse ould suggest he hasnt shone for them either (along with a few others obviously). As Frisbee said, his shots on goal are jaw droppingly bad. I cant recall if Ive ever seen him force a decent save.

Mr Alan

you seem to be misunderstanding me. I always thought Ronaldo had the ability to be world class. the worlds best.

i dont think Anderson has that ability. not nearly. he can be very good perhaps, but thats worlds away from being being the worlds best. more likely than his career meanders off into mediocricy tbh.

keane2097

Mr Alan wrote: »

you seem to be misunderstanding me. I always thought Ronaldo had the ability to be world class. the worlds best.

i dont think Anderson has that ability. not nearly. he can be very good perhaps, but thats worlds away from being being the worlds best. more likely than his career meanders off into mediocricy tbh.

You should go back to your previous post so and maybe remove the capitalisation on the word "now"!

Spud83

I can't believe people are saying we should be selling Nani in the summer.

Firstly

A)The guy had a promising first season, being involved in a couple of goals and scoring a couple of crackers himself. Remember he wasn't supposed to be used as much as he was last season. He was supposed to be eased in but actually ended playing a a large number of games (41 appearances).

The guy has struggled badly this season but it is hard to make an impact when you are in an out of the side and then when you are in the side you are playing with the reserve team.

C) Currently at United we have Ronaldo, Park, Tosic, and Nani as wingers.

Don't need to say anything about Ronaldo although it took him two/three season before making it at United. I don't want people to start mentioning their ages because its not about age its about maturity and experience.

Park for all his hard work offers very little going forward. Very valuable squad player and perfect for the big games but no great when it comes to breaking down a ten man defense.

We have seen nothing of Tosic yet, and we have no idea how he will settle into the English league. Suggesting it is worth getting rid of Nani because we have Tosic is nonsense.

So IMO if we get rid of Nani we will have to go out and buy another winger. Who are we going to buy? United don't have unlimited cash and without starting the Tevez argument a third striker will need to be signed whether it is Tevez or anyone else.

D) His main problem is that he is trying to be Ronaldo. This isn't exactly his fault as his obviously looks up to Ronaldo. Somebody (i.e Fergie) needs to sit him down and tell him look we don't want you to be Ronaldo we have Ronaldo, you need to concentrate on becoming a more orthodox winger. Work on taking full backs on instead of cutting inside all the time.

E) Again Ronaldo is his problem. Nani is right footed, but is being played on the left the majority of the time because of the lack of left footers at United and obviously Ronaldo has the right wing spot tied down.

IMO this is just another example of people expecting too much from a young talent. The guy needs time and at least another season at united. When you buy young players you are taking a risk, hopefully a calculated risk but you are not expecting a huge return on them straight away. You are hoping that they continue to develop and in three, four years develop into a first team player.

Fickle fans jumping the gun.

SantryRed

Wouldn't blame the United fans getting pissed off with him.

I've never seen him have a good consistent end product and last night was just rediculous. You got to give him time but can only give so much if he isn't showing anything. I don't think he's got a footballing brain though, runs around like a headless chicken.

Mitch Connor

shane86 wrote: »

Lol.

His jumping around celebrating at the end of the CL Final was embarassing seeing as he had **** all to do with them having got there. He was chronically cack in pretty much every match leading to it.

Completely disagree with that - Some of andersons better preformances were in europe for us. First half against Barcelona he was fantastic, then was quite in the second half playing a more restrained role.

Macca07

OK, the first 2 years while Ronaldo was at the club, he was just as useless as Nani is now, give the lad some time. I think some of his performances this season have been shocking, but what UTD player hasn't been this season.
With regards Tosic, i think it'll take him a year to settle in properly, is everyone here gonna say we should sell him at the end of the season as well just becasue he isn't up to UTD standard???
Nani is still young and will be a very good UTD player in the years to come, just as Anderson will be

redout

Des wrote: »

Anderson is going to be an absolutely brilliant player.

World Player of The Year inside 5 years.

He is actually a phenomonal talent.

I cant see that happening to be honest. 60 appearances for United and not a single goal. That is a shocking return for an attack minded midfielder. No one can really spin that any other way. I reckon once he scores his first then we will see a huge improvement from him in a relatively short space of time. Between him and Nani I would say that he has the better chance of going on to be a great player. Nani is screwed in my opinion if Tosic turns out to be a good player. I dont think Fergie will hesitate to sell him if that happens.

Mitch Connor

shane86 wrote: »

E) Again Ronaldo is his problem. Nani is right footed, but is being played on the left the majority of the time because of the lack of left footers at United and obviously Ronaldo has the right wing spot tied down.

This point annoys me, not that you are wrong.

Ronaldo is, imo, better down the left hand side of the pitch, combining with Evra than he is down the right.

Nani generally plays better on the right cause he crosses quicker (doesn't have to cut back).

I don't understand why, when both are playing, Ronaldo doesn't play mainly from the left. Get the best out of the pair that way imo.

NaiveMelodies

Not a chance in hell we will or should sell Nani.
Bar his few stunning strikes and important assists last year he has also taken a couple games by the scruff of the neck and shown what he is capable off.
Everyone is quick to forget his MOM performance in the FA Cup vs. Arsenal last year.
He also consolidated victorty over Liverpool last year after he came on.

Mr Alan

we were dead & buried when Nani came on against us in fairness. If you're citing that as an example of an excellent performance thats laughable tbh

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

we were dead & buried when Nani came on against us in fairness. If you're citing that as an example of an excellent performance thats laughable tbh

It was 1-0, I know Rafa is notorious for throwing in the towel, but a draw was still on the cards.

Mr Alan

we were down to 10 men & were ****ed.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

we were down to 10 men & were ****ed.

There in a nutshell is why Rafa will never win the league.

NaiveMelodies

Mr Alan wrote: »

we were dead & buried when Nani came on against us in fairness. If you're citing that as an example of an excellent performance thats laughable tbh

Ok point taken.
First of all you wernt dead and buried, all it would have taken was a mistake by VDS( e.g. this years calamity) or anyone from that matter to let you back in.
Secondly it was Nani himself who took the game by the scruff of the neck as opposed to any of the other united players.
So yes, it is an example of Nani standing out from the rest and showing his great potential.
I'm not laughing TBH.

Boggles

only1stevo wrote: »

Ok point taken.
First of all you wernt dead and buried, all it would have taken was a mistake by VDS( e.g. this years calamity) or anyone from that matter to let you back in.
Secondly it was Nani himself who took the game by the scruff of the neck as opposed to any of the other united players.
So yes, it is an example of Nani standing out from the rest and showing his great potential.
I'm not laughing TBH.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1190323/manchester_united_3_0_liverpool_fc/

An assist and a cracking goal, scruff of the neck for me TBH.

roryc

I hate Nani... I hate everything he is...

He's worse than a poor man's Ronaldo, he has all the bad points of Ronnie with almost no end product. Pretty much agree with most arguments in this thread, and yes I might be proven wrong, he might turn into a great player... but tbh I hope that if he does we sell him soon after. He has a worse mentality than Ronaldo, always moaning, rarely looking for the right pass... I can only wonder how much more big headed he would get if he had his talent


On a side note, I love Anderson

Loomis

Mr Alan wrote: »

your little man crush on Anderson is very amusing Des

.
.
.
.
World player of the year for the next 5-10 years will be contested by the likes of Aguero,Gerrard,Ronaldo,Eto'o,Essien,Torres,Fabregas,Messi.......players who are regularly outstanding NOW.

A tad out of place there tbh :eek:
Must be more than a crush you have on him to put him in that list.

I'd completely back Des up on that - Anderson will be an incredible player.
Like others said, he's yet to be played in his proper position. But has been impressive anyway. His engine is brilliant and gets round the pitch better than most.

He looks kinda lazy the way he caries himself at times but is deceptively quick when he gets going. Several times I've seen him accelerate and blow by two or three players out of the blue and you think where did that come from? I think it's cause he's very direct along with his very relaxed manner that his runs look kinda strange to me. Some good examples of it here, notably against Villa. here. For his size he's incredibly strong and two examples come to mind where he plowed Terry and Adebayor off the ball last season.

Something we rarely see with him, again I think down to playing out of position, is the level of skill he has; he can do all the tricks that Ronaldo and Ronaldinho throw around which is why he got dubbed the new Ronaldinho when he came onto the scene. Having said that he's quite a different player. He's still only 20 and reckon he's going to be amongst the top top players in a few years. This clip highlights just how good he is at running at people, his finishing and the first bit shows his level of skill. Click me

On topic...I have to say Nani is annoying me. Admittedly he's not being played a huge amount but you have to take your chances when you get them. And he really doesn't. He doesn't seem to care to me; he's far too relaxed and seems to think he's made it since he's at Utd so why kill himself trying. Anyone can hit a bad corner or cross but an example from the Derby match sums him up for me; he took a corner and hit the first man. Luckily for him the ball went out for another corner. He took the corner again and hit the same first man. There's just no defending that; if you mis hit your first corner you make damn sure you cross it right the next time. I'd agree with people that it's not quite fair to compare him to Ronaldo at the same stage in his career. I look at the price they paid for him frankly, and considering they paid a little over 12 for Ronaldo, who was younger, and 14-17 (depending on where you read it) for Nani I think we've made a huge loss on him unless something drastic happens.

UnitedIrishman

shane86 wrote: »

Lol.

His jumping around celebrating at the end of the CL Final was embarassing seeing as he had **** all to do with them having got there. He was chronically cack in pretty much every match leading to it.


And while I havent watched the Brazil qualifier games the fact they are on their arse ould suggest he hasnt shone for them either (along with a few others obviously). As Frisbee said, his shots on goal are jaw droppingly bad. I cant recall if Ive ever seen him force a decent save.

Wouldn't agree with that. He played 9 of the games in last years CL including the semi and had the balls to come on and take a penalty in the final despite not having scored at any stage for us.

Against some sides like Blackburn, Liverpool at Anfield, Villa , last year he was excellent and we didn't feel the loss of the likes of Scholesy at all. He's physically strong and good in the tackle which seems to have resulted in him being dropped further back the field by Fergie in almost a defensive role or just an all-round midfielder. He needs to strengthen positionally but from what I've seen from him in his first year I think he can go a long way to being one of the best midfielders in the world in years to come.

I think he is suffering from second season syndrome, a bit like Nani, and it just happens when other midfielders wise up to what they are like. Next year we'll really see what they are like. What is infuriating about Nani I think is that we know he has buckets of talent, but he seems to be intent on trying impossible passes, flicks, or rolling around. If he kept it simple and focussed on his distribution then he would be a far better player for it. It may or may not happen but it's up to the player himself what route he goes down.

Mr Alan

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

A tad out of place there tbh :eek:

not really imo, a lot think of him among the best in the world as it is & he has fared quite well in the award a couple of times already iirc.

keane2097

roryc wrote: »

I hate Nani... I hate everything he is...

He's worse than a poor man's Ronaldo, he has all the bad points of Ronnie with almost no end product. Pretty much agree with most arguments in this thread, and yes I might be proven wrong, he might turn into a great player... but tbh I hope that if he does we sell him soon after. He has a worse mentality than Ronaldo, always moaning, rarely looking for the right pass... I can only wonder how much more big headed he would get if he had his talent


On a side note, I love Anderson

Ah lad - will you relax!

Mr.Nice Guy

I think Nani has been an utter waste of space this season and I hope SAF offloads him soon. I also feel Anderson has underperformed. It's embarrassing if you ask me to hear fans singing how Anderson "sh*ts on Fabregas" when he clearly doesn't.

The best United midfielder this season has been Michael Carrick and he's probably one of the most underrated and overlooked players in the squad, yet he goes about and does his business really well and when he hasn't played the team has looked lost.

PHB

You gotta give kids time. End of next season he doesn't step it up, fine. Until then, get off his back and give him some encouragement.

Mr Alan

"kids" is a little much, he turns 23 this year.

Loomis

Mr Alan wrote: »

not really imo, a lot think of him among the best in the world as it is & he has fared quite well in the award a couple of times already iirc.

He might be in the top 10 or something but that doesn't mean he'll "be contesting" the top spot. That's why he's out of place. Or you just didn't phrase what you meant very well.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

"kids" is a little much, he turns 23 this year.

True, but he nearly has a year to get to 23 as he just turned 22.

Mr Alan

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

He might be in the top 10 or something but that doesn't mean he'll "be contesting" the top spot. That's why he's out of place. Or you just didn't phrase what you meant very well.

pretty sure he came like 2nd or 3rd a few years ago, he is coming into his peak now & has been really outstanding this year again.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

pretty sure he came like 2nd or 3rd a few years ago,

Non!

Spud83

Mitch Connor wrote: »

This point annoys me, not that you are wrong.

Ronaldo is, imo, better down the left hand side of the pitch, combining with Evra than he is down the right.

Nani generally plays better on the right cause he crosses quicker (doesn't have to cut back).

I don't understand why, when both are playing, Ronaldo doesn't play mainly from the left. Get the best out of the pair that way imo.

Thought you were arguing for a second. Your first line threw me, plus the fact you quoted my post under someone else name.

roryc wrote: »

I hate Nani... I hate everything he is...

He's worse than a poor man's Ronaldo, he has all the bad points of Ronnie with almost no end product.

So Ronaldo two/three season ago?

keane2097

Boggles wrote: »

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1190323/manchester_united_3_0_liverpool_fc/

An assist and a cracking goal, scruff of the neck for me TBH.

Just watched that video - I'd forgotten that game, he really did do well in it. Looked a proper player.

He's capable alright - he's just lost his way a bit.

Same with Ronaldo when he first came - I think he came off the bench against Bolton or someone and looked incredible, then started to look like an awful prat for a good while, but we know how it turned out.

This thread has actually made me much more optimistic about Nani than I was yesterday!

Spud83

Age doesn't matter maturity does. He has only a year and half of top flight football under his belt in and out of the team I will add. Maturity comes with experience, not by birthdays.

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

Non!

again pretty sure him & Lampard featured 2nd & 3rd a few years ago...could be mistaken though, if i am, meh.

roryc

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

So Ronaldo two/three season ago?

No... because Ronaldo has always been trying to improve. I get the idea that Nani thinks he has already made it at United and therefore doesn't need to improve further. It actually wouldn't surprise me if Nani actually thought he was the best player at United.

As I said already, I might be proven wrong, but I don't think so. I would love if Nani went at the end of the season, more because of his attitude than his abilities. Same reason it wouldn't bother me too much if Ronaldo went. IMO if either of these players had the same attitude and mentality as players like Park/Vidic etc, they would be much, much better players.

Mr Alan

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Age doesn't matter maturity does. He has only a year and half of top flight football under his belt in and out of the team I will add. Maturity comes with experience, not by birthdays.

played with Sporting since 2005 incl games in the CL in 2006, surely thats top flight football?

Nani has played about 100 top flight matches with nearly 20 in Europe....and was bought for a lot of money....he is not some fresh face scamp from the academy

James Forde

Just a quick note regards Anderson, don't forget he played the olympics this year aswell, and showed ALOT of potential last season.

To have Gerrard and Fabregas in your back pocket in your first season isn't bad imo, deserves alot more time!

keane2097

Mr Alan wrote: »

again pretty sure him & Lampard featured 2nd & 3rd a few years ago...could be mistaken though, if i am, meh.

Wikipedia wrote:

List of male winners

2007
1st Kaká Brazil A.C. Milan
2nd Lionel Messi Argentina Barcelona
3rd Cristiano Ronaldo Portugal Manchester United

2006
1st Fabio Cannavaro Italy Real Madrid Juventus
2nd Zinedine Zidane France Real Madrid
3rd Ronaldinho Brazil Barcelona

2005
1st Ronaldinho Brazil Barcelona
2nd Frank Lampard England Chelsea
3rd Samuel Eto'o Cameroon Barcelona

2004
1st Ronaldinho Brazil Barcelona
2nd Thierry Henry France Arsenal
3rd Andriy Shevchenko Ukraine Milan

2003
1st Zinedine Zidane France Real Madrid
2nd Thierry Henry France Arsenal
3rd Ronaldo Brazil Real Madrid

2002
1st Ronaldo Brazil Real MadridInternazionale
2nd Oliver Kahn Germany Bayern Munich
3rd Zinedine Zidane France Real Madrid

2001
1st Luís Figo Portugal Real Madrid
2nd David Beckham England Manchester United
3rd Raúl Spain Real Madrid

2000
1st Zinedine Zidane France Juventus
2nd Luís Figo Portugal Real Madrid Barcelona
3rd Rivaldo Brazil Barcelona

FYI

No results from last year for some reason - must be compiled by a Liverpool fan :pac:

Mr Alan

at no point has Anderson had Gerrard in any ****ing pocket :rolleyes:

we were the better team against Utd in Anfield last year, just as we were against them this year and the year before last.

Smegball

For Christ sakes, give the lads some time, everybody has dips in form. Look at Xabi Alonso, first season was absolutely amazing, last couple of seasons very very dissapointing and people wanted him out for Barry, this season? Back to his best.

Give the lads some time.

eagle eye

Boggles wrote: »

Why is he running out of time?

He has played nearly exclusively in the 3 cup competitions this season, 3 competitions United are still in.

His last 5 matches have yielded 2 goals and 1 assist?

Honestly you are intolerable at times.

Nani has been very poor in general at United. He loses the ball way too much and is far too greedy also. Defending what he has done so far for United is just ridiculous. Its easy to have those stats at United with all the attacking prowess around him, it does not mean that he is playing well. His overall general play at United so far could be easily described as headless, greedy and lacking vision.

However I would be in the camp that believes that he is a future superstar when he gains more experience.

I do believe that the best thing United could do is to buy someone to compete with him for his position. I think that would fastrack his development as he does seem ultra competitive.

keane2097

roryc wrote: »

No... because Ronaldo has always been trying to improve. I get the idea that Nani thinks he has already made it at United and therefore doesn't need to improve further. It actually wouldn't surprise me if Nani actually thought he was the best player at United.

As I said already, I might be proven wrong, but I don't think so. I would love if Nani went at the end of the season, more because of his attitude than his abilities. Same reason it wouldn't bother me too much if Ronaldo went. IMO if either of these players had the same attitude and mentality as players like Park/Vidic etc, they would be much, much better players.

Sure you can't use any of that as an argument - you just made it up in your brain.

"I'd say Nani thinks he's the man - get rid of him"

Give me a break :rolleyes: