Arts funding

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

djpbarry

jimi_t wrote: »

Thats not so much a question as a trap - you wouldn't be asking if you didn't have a counter-retort.

Suffice it to say that I think it's pushing it a bit to suggest that Irish farmers have been "shafted" by the EU, but it's a matter for another thread really...

turgon

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Thats poetry

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Maybe the fact that this education and grant system is so prevalents, and so much can be gotten, a system of complacency is introduced. Its like anything, if there are no goals to be striven towards (for example financial gain), the quality of delivery is lowered.

jimi_t

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

And do you think an open ended system facilitates artists more or less than a commission based system? This is not far off saying that the state now takes on the role of feeding unwed mothers rather than them begging for the scraps from the priests table - a tad faceitious I admit, but surely you can see the duality of your statement?

In an era of so-called postmodernism we no longer have any coherent standards for what is considered "art." So it's not surprising that the selection process is rather random.

Heh, this really reminds me of

Annie Hall wrote:

ALVY
Photography's interesting, 'cause, you
know, it's-it's a new art form, and a,
uh, a set of aesthetic criteria have
not emerged yet.

ANNIE
Aesthetic criteria? You mean, whether
it's, uh, a good photo or not?

Again, while you may think postmodernism is a load of bollacks (which in a lot of cases I'd agree with you, you could say the same thing about Cubism/Impressionism/Insert yer own flavour here.

Moe: It's po-mo! [blank stares from all] Post-modern! [more staring] Yeah, all right -- weird for the sake of weird

The problem there lies in the fact that neither the people controlling the purse strings nor the administrators usually have any art training.

...Quoted for posteriety - art training used as a positive in an thread overwhelmingly geared towards cutting it

That's true. Moreover, they are so afraid of being considered gauche or uncultured that they rubberstamp way more than they should.

Complete nonsense. Having worked and having several family members working in the upper echelons of arts administration, I'd go so far as to say that the last thing an Arts Administrator outside of Dublin/Galway is afraid of is looking 'gauche' or 'uncultured' when sitting on CoCo. with farming administrators and the like.

Censorship is one kind of problem; utter lack of taste, restraint, and formal awareness is another. One frequently sees young artists competing with one another over the shock value of their so-called art, in an effort to earn notoriety and status. Everyone wants to be the next Damien Hirst. It's all become so sad.

'Everyone' wants to be the next Damien Hirst? I'd go so far as to say less than a quarter of recognised artists in this country focus on installations, and maybe 10% of them do stuff that you wouldn't wholeheartedly bring granny along to view.

Without innovation, sensation and the embracing of new mediums, art becomes stagnant. What do you the current world would be like to live in if Baroque era painting and Greco-Roman sculpture remained the mainstay of the art world? 'Art' impacts a lot more than you think

jimi_t

djpbarry wrote: »

Suffice it to say that I think it's pushing it a bit to suggest that Irish farmers have been "shafted" by the EU, but it's a matter for another thread really...

Really not sure how 'farmers' got in there; even my reply just focused on fishing Apologies

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

K4t

Maybe if Cecelia Ahern was made pay taxes the Arts would have some more money to play with

jimi_t

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Are you referring to the arts domestically or internationally? Certainly the concept of the 'arts' in the 50s and 60s in this country is fairly grim and utalitarian

I probably wouldn't make such a statement, personally, because I'd prefer to avoid creating the impression that I believe all experimental art over the past 150 years to be one homogenous morass.

Well its hard to be subjective and find the subtle nuances in statements like

In an era of so-called postmodernism we no longer have any coherent standards for what is considered "art."

to be fair. I can only infer as best I can to facilitate discussion.

Are you familiar with the remainder of Hirst's work?

Fairly extensively - unfortunately in internet forums I tend to see so much of the Daily Mail mentality 'POOR SHARK, DOES IT 'HURST'?'

I personally don't think we've ever seen Greco-Roman sculpture disappear as a mainstay of Western art—do you? And has the influence of Rembrandt, Vermeer, and Caravaggio truly been dissipated by that of Andy Warhol and Tracey Emin?

Mainstay was the wrong word... I was trying to make a point regarding the inherently progressive nature of the arts - I'm not trying to belittle your opinion or prompt anything than further facilitation of what has been a remarkably polite and open ended discussion, but it seems to me that the same arguments about the detrimental nature of post-modernism on modern art have been made about almost every innovative modality within art over the ages.

In relation to your other question, why does new talent and work have to 'dissipate' the established norm? If anything, artists such as Emin or Warhol serve to augment established norms - even by the virtue of revolting against them. There's nothing quite like a nice conformity to kick out against (from the inside) This might only be evident in massively obtuse ways - certainly I can't think of any immediately credible examples - but surely you can see where I'm coming from?

Can you give some examples?

Do I need to? You seem to be perfectly well-versed in cultural matters; we'd only be entering pedantic territory.

Húrin

Hi everyone, I am an art student, graduating next year. Most of the work I do will probably be dependent to some degree on government funding. However this does not justify continuing to fund the arts instead of health education if it must come to that.

To all the people who said that artists need no education, and that they should just rely on their innate talent, I would say: would you expect that people who are born with a great head for maths need no further education to become engineers?

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I don't think that the arts were especially better 40+ years ago. Community art practices didn't exist in Ireland at all. Contemporary art was far more elitist than it is now.

I probably wouldn't make such a statement, personally, because I'd prefer to avoid creating the impression that I believe all experimental art over the past 150 years to be one homogenous morass.

Well most of the last 150 years have not been under the influence of postmodern culture. Remember, postmodernism is not just an art thing. Our entire culture here in Europe is postmodern; however, the art scene is academic enough to openly recognise this fact.

I personally don't think we've ever seen Greco-Roman sculpture disappear as a mainstay of Western art—do you? And has the influence of Rembrandt, Vermeer, and Caravaggio truly been dissipated by that of Andy Warhol and Tracey Emin?

They haven't lost their influence, but they are decidedly history.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Húrin

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yes, almost. I say almost only because it is not mandatory to have an art degree to build a successful art career. However it is much more difficult.

I wouldn't agree that the entire culture in contemporary Europe is postmodern. I see it as having postmodern influences, certainly; but it's quite easy to find traces of modernist and pre-modernist sensibilities. It's easy to find art today that has more in common with nineteenth-century realism than with postimpressionism or the many schools of modern art that followed it.

Of course postmodernism has traces of modernism in it. I see advertising, rock music, as very postmodern indeed these days. They ironise the past as you said, among other characterics of this age, as does much visual art.

djpbarry

Húrin wrote: »

I say almost only because it is not mandatory to have an art degree to build a successful art career. However it is much more difficult.

More difficult than attempting to build a career in engineering without the relevant qualifications?

Húrin

djpbarry wrote: »

More difficult than attempting to build a career in engineering without the relevant qualifications?

No, I think I clearly stated that having an engineering degree is mandatory in order to get anywhere in the field.