Film? Ptah!

paudie · 09-01-2009 2:08pm #1

So I got my Holga for Christmas from my lovely lady.

I took my time reading the instructions, loading up the film.
I thought about each shot before I took it, making sure framing was correct and that I liked what I saw.

Finished the roll the other morning and dropped it into a place in town, went back to collect it today and...

Blank, nothing on the film at all.

I hate stupid film. Digital FTW.

Quick question if my roll of colour 120 was see through does that mean over exposure or no exposure at all?

Calina · 09-01-2009 2:13pm

I'm back shooting film for the moment. I look forward to those days where you discover the film didn't wind on properly and that's 36 shots gone.

DaireQuinlan · 09-01-2009 2:46pm

paudie wrote: »

So I got my Holga for Christmas from my lovely lady.

I took my time reading the instructions, loading up the film.
I thought about each shot before I took it, making sure framing was correct and that I liked what I saw.

Finished the roll the other morning and dropped it into a place in town, went back to collect it today and...

Blank, nothing on the film at all.

I hate stupid film. Digital FTW.

Quick question if my roll of colour 120 was see through does that mean over exposure or no exposure at all?

Completely transparent means that nothing was exposed on the film.
Discounting screwups in processing (are the edge markings present ?) then there's two possibilities.

1. your holga isn't working properly. IE the shutter never opens.
2. you loaded the film back to front. 120 has black backing paper, if thats loaded to the front then it'll do its intended job and protect that film from ever getting exposed. I don't know if the holga has a red window for counting exposures or anything. If it does, and there's no big long streak on the film then its probably not it either.

actually, THREE options, 3 just occured to me.

3. When you were done with the roll, and opened the back, was the film all nicely rolled up on the takeup spool ? The one at the other side of the holga from the side you put the loaded roll ...

DaireQuinlan · 09-01-2009 2:49pm

Calina wrote: »

I'm back shooting film for the moment. I look forward to those days where you discover the film didn't wind on properly and that's 36 shots gone.

Honestly, I've never understood this. I've shot a vast array of 35mm and medium format cameras and I've never loaded a 35mm cassette incorrectly so it never gets taken up, or loaded a roll of 120 so that it never gets wound, or put a roll in upside down or back to front or whatever. The only screwup I've ever had was with my bronica when I went through a phase of forgetting to reset the multiple exposure lever after using my pola back, and getting the next 5 or 6 shots all on the same bit of film. And that was my fault for not checking the film counter.

melekalikimaka · 09-01-2009 2:53pm

You have clearly never tried load a limo fisheye, utter nightmare

trishw78 · 09-01-2009 3:02pm

DaireQuinlan wrote:

Honestly, I've never understood this. I've shot a vast array of 35mm and medium format cameras and I've never loaded a 35mm cassette incorrectly so it never gets taken up, or loaded a roll of 120 so that it never gets wound, or put a roll in upside down or back to front or whatever.

It happened once on a completely manual slr the winding mechanism was slightly stiff and I ended up taking all 36 shots in one frame. Ah! them were the days. touch wood hasn't happened since.

paudie · 09-01-2009 3:29pm

Well the film wound on properly and was on the right hand spool at the end.
I watched all the numbers go by as I was spooling on, so I presume it was the right way around.
Before I loaded the film I clicked the shutter a few times and saw it open.

There was nothing on the roll at all apart from some weird smudges at one end. I didn't look at it in that much detail and the girl at the shop just said she'd through it in the bin.

Maybe I put in the square mask thing.

Surely some of the film should have been exposed due to light leaks and me not doing the loading and unloading in black out conditions?

Guess I'll try again, any recommendations where to get film and what type to get?

Fajitas! · 09-01-2009 3:53pm

Right, you gotta remember, the holga lens is about f/11, and shoots somewhere between 1/160th and 1/200th of a second. What ISO film did you put in there?

It sounds like you were shooting in way too dark conditions, but tbh, I'm suprised it picked nothing up.

Did you give it to a developer that knows the story with 120? I've seen a few messups with people not developing it properly.

DaireQuinlan · 09-01-2009 3:55pm

paudie wrote: »

There was nothing on the roll at all apart from some weird smudges at one end. I didn't look at it in that much detail and the girl at the shop just said she'd through it in the bin.

Nothing on the roll at all ? Where did you get it developed ? If it went all the way through the holga without getting any exposure for whatever reason, and was developed properly, then there ought to be edge markings on the film (the film type, manufacturer fuji/kodak/etc etc or whatever). If there isn't any then that strongly suggests that it was dumped into fixer before being developed, or the developer was exhausted or something. Was it B&W ? Colour ?

Rojo · 09-01-2009 4:02pm

or the person who developed it ****ed up and put a blank roll through...?

but the smudge.. hmm... perplexing!

DaireQuinlan · 09-01-2009 4:05pm

Rojo wrote: »

or the person who developed it ****ed up and put a blank roll through...?

but the smudge.. hmm... perplexing!

Yeah, or that. I'm curious as to where he got it developed. Not many places do 120 over the counter. I'm pretty sure Gunns wouldn't screw it up for example, or if they did I'm sure they'd be up front about it.

Smudge. Yes, wierd

the plot thickens !

Fajitas! · 09-01-2009 4:06pm

You know who this is a job for...?

/que seven camera angles around 120 film spool...

paudie · 09-01-2009 4:09pm

Well it's my first roll of 120 (colour by the way) so maybe there were markings on it but I just didn't know what to look for.

I shot with the flash on a few occasions Al so I'm sure it would have picked up something.

I'm going to blame the developer (Fuji shop on Oliver Plunkett St in Cork, the yellow one with all the second hand Nikon stuff)

So what type of film should I get next and where?

DaireQuinlan · 09-01-2009 4:09pm

Nah, I'd go with Miami any day, if only because I shoot the entire thing with some crazy purple graduated filter over the lens. And also because I'd get to pretend to be ... Horatio .... Cain ... of course.

Looks like YOU'LL be developing your next roll of film .... IN JAIL !

paudie · 09-01-2009 4:12pm

Denis MacSweenys is the place I think.

duffarama · 09-01-2009 4:13pm

I remember when I started using film, 3 or 4 rolls all blank, was my own fault as I wasn't loading the film correctly. I had to be shown by John Gunn himself... my previous film camera would auto wind

On the upside though, I'm thankful as the 4 blank rolls caused me to slow down and think of each shot. I may well have missed some great photos though!

Fajitas! · 09-01-2009 4:18pm

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

Nah, I'd go with Miami any day, if only because I shoot the entire thing with some crazy purple graduated filter over the lens. And also because I'd get to pretend to be ... Horatio .... Cain ... of course.

Looks like YOU'LL be developing your next roll of film .... IN JAIL !

Ah now, Grisham is the man...

paudie wrote: »

Well it's my first roll of 120 (colour by the way) so maybe there were markings on it but I just didn't know what to look for.

I shot with the flash on a few occasions Al so I'm sure it would have picked up something.

I'm going to blame the developer (Fuji shop on Oliver Plunkett St in Cork, the yellow one with all the second hand Nikon stuff)

So what type of film should I get next and where?

You'd have seen the markings if they were on it, without a doubt, and if you had used flash, you certainly would have picked up something, even if it was complete overexposure...

paudie wrote: »

Denis MacSweenys is the place I think.

I always thought they had a good rep... It does seem like the blame lies with them though.

DaireQuinlan · 09-01-2009 4:19pm

I'm going to err on the side of caution here and (sorry paudie) Blame Paudie !

If there was a smudge then it was probably a light leak from when you were loading it or something, and there -might- have been edge markings so I'm going to presume the fuji place did their job correctly. So I reckon you might have loaded it backward.

Try and load another roll, and stop when you get to the point where you have the backing paper on the takeup spool, about to close the back and wind to the first exposure (but don't ACTUALLY do that yet). If the paper facing out (toward the back of the camera) is black then you've loaded the film the wrong way 'round.

This is all academic if the holga has a red window. No-one answered my question about that yet !

We'll get to the bottom of this yet, team. (It'll turn out to be someone we hadn't even considered yet, who'll confess when presented with the flimsiest of evidence)

Fajitas! · 09-01-2009 4:27pm

Yep, the Holga has a red window, it's generally not the cause of too many problems though, at most, a window sized white mark through the image, rather than a whole roll.

Tbh, I blame Challengemaster, he's young, angsty, ginger, and worst of all, looks like Rick Astley, that's all the motive one needs. :pac:

DaireQuinlan · 09-01-2009 4:31pm

Fajitas! wrote: »

Yep, the Holga has a red window, it's generally not the cause of too many problems though, at most, a window sized white mark through the image, rather than a whole roll.

Oh right, Rules out loading the film backward though. If he had actually done that then there'd be a big streak all the way through because the film would be pressed directly up against the window.

Tbh, I blame Challengemaster, he's young, angsty, ginger, and worst of all, looks like Rick Astley, that's all the motive one needs. :pac:

Very well, having been forced into a humiliating backdown and come to the conclusion that we can't blame paudie, then ChallengeMaster certainly sounds like a suitable scapegoat. Now where are my hounds ...

Fajitas! · 09-01-2009 4:34pm

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

Oh right, Rules out loading the film backward though. If he had actually done that then there'd be a big streak all the way through because the film would be pressed directly up against the window.

Yep, it'd be getting a bit worrying when you're trying to find the numbers too...

Very well, having been forced into a humiliating backdown and come to the conclusion that we can't blame paudie, then ChallengeMaster certainly sounds like a suitable scapegoat. Now where are my hounds ...

Fantastic. I'll alert The Sun, The Star and The Guardian.

DaireQuinlan · 09-01-2009 4:42pm

Fajitas! wrote: »

Fantastic. I'll alert The Sun, The Star and The Guardian.

Splendid ! All the bottom feeding tabloids.

Might I point out however that we're not victimising CM because of his shock of fiery red hair. I myself hold my distinguished auburn locks in the highest of regard. However, he is also young and antsy, and I have become old and tired and bitter*. So on with the scapegoating !

*And also the sole daytime custodian of a 11 month old baby who I have just discovered will, if given a plate of neatly chopped nectarine and grape pieces, try and stuff as many of them as humanly possible into his mouth, and then eat the plate. Amazing !

CabanSail · 09-01-2009 5:10pm

I think that you should put another film through it. Just shoot anything as a test.

Get it developed at another place & see how you go. If it's not exposed again then it will most likely lie with the camera/technique (keep the negs this time)

DaireQuinlan · 09-01-2009 5:16pm

paudie wrote: »

Surely some of the film should have been exposed due to light leaks and me not doing the loading and unloading in black out conditions?

Incidentally, whatever about the light leaks, as long as you're careful about direct sunlight you can load and unload pretty much wherever. Just keep it shaded as much as possible when you're loading, and don't leave unwrapped rolls (either exposed or unexposed) hanging around. I wrap mine in tinfoil when I'm done with them :-)

paudie · 09-01-2009 5:26pm

Ok will just try again.

I'm pretty sure that I did load it properly as I could see the numbers counting from 1 to 12 through the little red window and I presume they're on the back of the film?

DaireQuinlan · 09-01-2009 5:36pm

paudie wrote: »

Ok will just try again.

I'm pretty sure that I did load it properly as I could see the numbers counting from 1 to 12 through the little red window and I presume they're on the back of the film?

Yeah, if you saw them then it was loaded and winding correctly. I just wasn't sure whether or not the holga had one of those little windows or some sort of mechanical counter.

ThOnda · 09-01-2009 5:51pm

Light leaks? The film is blank, after developing, therefore there was not enough light falling onto the film. I think.
If there was a light leak, the film would be dark.

Or am I completely wrong (again)?

DaireQuinlan · 09-01-2009 5:56pm

ThOnda wrote: »

Light leaks? The film is blank, after developing, therefore there was not enough light falling onto the film. I think.
If there was a light leak, the film would be dark.

Or am I completely wrong (again)?

no, you're right, for once

We haven't managed to establish whether or not there were edge markings though (which, if there were, would put the blame firmly in paudies camp), and there's still the matter of the unexplained 'smudge' that paudie reckons might have been a light leak of some description from loading or unloading the film (possible with 120 if you're a bit blase about it)

melekalikimaka · 09-01-2009 5:58pm

how much is 120 film, got myself a diane and its 120... how does self development differ from 35mm? i assume you need diff spools... is that it? aside from dev times etc

DaireQuinlan · 09-01-2009 6:01pm

melekalikimaka wrote: »

how much is 120 film, got myself a diane and its 120... how does self development differ from 35mm? i assume you need diff spools... is that it? aside from dev times etc

Dev times should be the same. You might be able to develop in the same tank and using the same spools, I have a tank that can take a roll of 120, and the spool for it telescopes out to fit 35mm or 120. You'll probably need more solution though, that same tank above needs 550ml to cover a roll which is a complete PITA.

ThOnda · 09-01-2009 6:57pm

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

no, you're right, for once

Brilliant! I do nominate that post as a Post of the day for the main menu on Boards.ie!

Fajitas! · 09-01-2009 7:01pm

To be very honest though, I reckon the first few rolls of 120 are probably the ones you're most careful with... I remember do my damndest to make sure nothing could go wrong.

DaireQuinlan · 09-01-2009 7:06pm

Fajitas! wrote: »

To be very honest though, I reckon the first few rolls of 120 are probably the ones you're most careful with... I remember do my damndest to make sure nothing could go wrong.

Careful ? I put my first roll of 120 through an old folding pocket kodak from 1920 and then developed it in coffee :-)

paudie · 09-01-2009 7:09pm

Could someone post an example of these edge markings, see if it jogs my memory a bit.

Anouilh · 09-01-2009 7:12pm

Most film works.

Your post reminds me to take care.

Also, don't offer to share your film camera while travelling, as I once did. The other person opened the camera back by mistake. Not too much was lost, but it was a pity.

I can understand how frustrating your experience was.
Better luck in future.

Fajitas! · 09-01-2009 7:15pm

http://www.flickr.com/photos/greenboy/2370981755/

Something like that, except inverted

DaireQuinlan · 09-01-2009 7:18pm

paudie wrote: »

Could someone post an example of these edge markings, see if it jogs my memory a bit.

They'll look something similar to the borders of this shot (this is in B&W)

-edit- although it DOES look as though I scanned that back to front. Doh ! -edit-

ThOnda · 09-01-2009 7:23pm

This one would not be so discrete, me thinks...

Fajitas! · 09-01-2009 7:25pm

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

Doh ! -edit-

Quick! Flip & rotate!!!!

paudie · 09-01-2009 7:27pm

Pretty sure that stuff wasn't on it.

It was just the film I got in the Holga box so maybe it was that?

I'm off to ebay to order a few rolls anyway, since nobody wants to recommend film I'm blaming all of you if the next lot don't come out.

melekalikimaka · 09-01-2009 7:28pm

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

Dev times should be the same. You might be able to develop in the same tank and using the same spools, I have a tank that can take a roll of 120, and the spool for it telescopes out to fit 35mm or 120. You'll probably need more solution though, that same tank above needs 550ml to cover a roll which is a complete PITA.

whats the size difference in negs between the two?

and whats the deal with sticky bits on the film??? stupid 120... why cant 35mm fit in my diane

DaireQuinlan · 09-01-2009 7:28pm

ThOnda wrote: »

This one would not be so discrete, me thinks...

Ah , a Russian FKD, unless I'm very much mistaken :-)

DaireQuinlan · 09-01-2009 7:30pm

paudie wrote: »

Pretty sure that stuff wasn't on it.

It was just the film I got in the Holga box so maybe it was that?

I'm off to ebay to order a few rolls anyway, since nobody wants to recommend film I'm blaming all of you if the next lot don't come out.

oh wait, you put the PRACTICE ROLL into the camera ??!?

Fajitas! · 09-01-2009 7:42pm

You can fit 35mm in your Diana... Jaysis, Mele, you should know these things

paudie wrote: »

I'm off to ebay to order a few rolls anyway, since nobody wants to recommend film I'm blaming all of you if the next lot don't come out.

BW or Col?

Get a few rolls of Ilford HP5, Delta 3200, Portra 800 (On Daire's recommendation), And some 400 Sensia for cross processing... about 8 rolls in total, should give you plenty of fun!

ThOnda · 09-01-2009 7:42pm

I don't know the make of the camera, but I know one thing - it is for sale in .cz

paudie · 09-01-2009 7:42pm

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

oh wait, you put the PRACTICE ROLL into the camera ??!?

You're kidding me?

Why would they give me a dud film?

Fajitas! · 09-01-2009 7:46pm

Nope, it shouldn't be a dud, at least, mine wasn't!

DaireQuinlan · 09-01-2009 7:49pm

paudie wrote: »

You're kidding me?

Why would they give me a dud film?

I was just joking

paudie · 09-01-2009 8:58pm

Ok guys please please direct me towards some nice 120 film?
Please?

i_am_dogboy · 09-01-2009 9:50pm

It might end up pretty expensive, but shooting slide and cross processing is very popular with toy camera types, gives great results apparently, though I've yet to try that one out myself-waiting for my next box of films to arrive in the post before I can. I'm also of no help when it comes to b&w, that too will be corrected in the package mentioned above though...

My own favourite for the holga and my ****ty cheap tlr is fuji 160C, but it absolutely has to be bright to justify using it, bright colours, nice contrast. There's a type of kodak film that gives similarly colourful results in 35mm, but I'm not sure if it's available in 120 format, 200UC I think it is. I've also had some success with fuji 800Z.

DaireQuinlan · 09-01-2009 10:51pm

paudie wrote: »

Ok guys please please direct me towards some nice 120 film?
Please?

For B&W I'd recommend tri-x, bunch of rolls. I've never tried the HP5 that fajitas recommends above but I do love my tri-x in 35mm and in 120. Color negative anything kodak portra related. Colour slide I'd steer clear of unless you're shooting x-pro. If thats the case I'd try and pick up expired stuff or something. Slide is generally a little more expensive.

Once you get your tri-x you'll obviously want to get a development tank and chemicals aswell to start dev'ing it yourself at home :-)

incidentally, 7dayshop.co.uk is the place to go for film, or at least the cheapest that I've found. Postage is 7 sterling though, so its only good for big orders ...

Film? Ptah!

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