Supplying own parts for service

blackiebest

Darragh29 wrote: »

or else she'll have to get a hire car @ 30 Euro/Day * 10 days, 300 Euro, so she is worse off overall!!!

If it was a clutch, by your figures, it would pay her to rent a car for 5 days. I got my £130 clutch today, I ordered it Thursday. I did say earlier that I was over the top in "monitoring' your online business, whenever you get it together but you would choose to ignore that, given your nature/level of maturity. You are defending the most stupid logics I have witnessed. Your customers, people like me, to greater and lesser degrees are copping on to the rip off's perpetrated by your industry, we are using this forum to hilight this and its driving you nuts. The hypocrisy in you trying to play both sides of the coin with your "new' business which does not yet exist is hilarious.

The 'armchair' and get off your "arse' bit is a little immature, I suspect the thirteen salaries I must pay of a Friday is a little more than you would give me credit for.

You are a fine example of the perception we, the punters, have of your industry and the people who control it. You cry about how little the mechanics earn and the lack of regulation in your business yet slag off those who observe it.

Again, its a joke and it will end up on you!

blackiebest

peasant wrote: »

smaller brush, less tar please

Point taken.

blackiebest

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

This is obviously a subject you are passionate about, as am I.

I come on here with my real name in my sig, prepared to debate the points. Your post above is frankly insulting and not worthy of the keystrokes to answer it.

If you are prepared to make and support points with reasoned debate then work away. Quoting me out of context and suggesting that I said things I didn’t is a poor substitute for a reasoned argument and does your case no good.

Fair enough, apologies, did not mean to be insulting to you. I am prepared to participate in reasoned debate and do not wish to quote you or anyone else out of context, I dont believe I suggested you said things which you didnt but sorry if I did.

However from my very first post I was misquoted, accused of being stupid etc after posting a 100% honest experience.

The points I have been making however are honest and the blatant hypocricy
relating to hourly rates/parts markup/ mechanics wages and customer experiences is staggering.

If you doubt my 200% difference's I will happily show you.

the_syco

I would think that this is what some people would have an issue with. You are adding a margin to the parts to make a profit. The customer can get the parts for less than you are charging but doesn't have the expertise to fit them.

I have done a few nixers fixing computers. But I don't fix parts that they buy themselves onto the machines. Why? Because if they knew the proper part to get, they'd be able to fix it in themselves.

For example: someone gets a cheap Power Supply Unit, and wants me to fit it into the PC for them. I could have gotten a better PSU from a better brand, which may cost a slight bit more, but they insist I use their cheaper part. One week later their sh|te PSU dies, and takes their hard-drive with it. I'm not going to take resposibility for them buying cheap parts.

Likewise with a garage. Except, unlike a PC, a car can go at 120KPH, so if that cheap part breaks, you could accidently run over a few people who were waiting on the kerb to cross the road. Of course, since the garage put the part in, they may be held liable.

Darragh29

blackiebest wrote: »

If it was a clutch, by your figures, it would pay her to rent a car for 5 days. I got my £130 clutch today, I ordered it Thursday. I did say earlier that I was over the top in "monitoring' your online business, whenever you get it together but you would choose to ignore that, given your nature/level of maturity. You are defending the most stupid logics I have witnessed. Your customers, people like me, to greater and lesser degrees are copping on to the rip off's perpetrated by your industry, we are using this forum to hilight this and its driving you nuts. The hypocrisy in you trying to play both sides of the coin with your "new' business which does not yet exist is hilarious.

The 'armchair' and get off your "arse' bit is a little immature, I suspect the thirteen salaries I must pay of a Friday is a little more than you would give me credit for.

You are a fine example of the perception we, the punters, have of your industry and the people who control it. You cry about how little the mechanics earn and the lack of regulation in your business yet slag off those who observe it.

Again, its a joke and it will end up on you!

I didn't read any words by you to the effect that you had retracted what you had previously said regarding monitoring my business actitives.

What stupid logic am I defending on here??? That I as a business owner must operate within a successful financial model in order to remain in business???

How am I playing "both sides of the same coin" as you put it??? My online parts business is not in fact a new business but is a new business activity of a business that I already own. When this business is launched at the start of February, I will also be offering a mobile mechanic call out service through this website, a mobile car servcing facility, a used vehicle warranty product and a pre-purchase vehicle inspection service.

We have made a policy decision that we will give very firm written assurances with regard to work that we undertake, and parts that we provide. There is is clearly a direct association, in respect of what we do, between parts that are used and the confidence that is necessary in the quality of those parts, to be able to offer a no quibble warranty in respect of what work we are associated with and have been paid to undertake.

It is simply not possible or feasable, to offer a meaningful warranty or fall back posiiton to a customer, when you have let them provide their own parts. As an operational decision, the smartest thing to do is have a policy where we supply the parts, exceptions being absolutely none.

To do it any other way, is to allow the business become occupied, and on the same basis, to become inefficient, by entertaining possibly several daily debates with customers about what parts are OEM quality, what parts their mates have "assured" them are good quality, and so on and so forth.

My experience has been and remains, that customers who start messing with "I'll supply the parts", are customers that are simply not worth having. They are the same customers who inherently don't trust you, who want to bring their mates up to check what advice you might be giving them is true, who basically imply to your face that you are out to "screw" them, despite the fact that you are throwing addded value at them but they are too stupid to see it.

What you don't understand is that there are a sizable minority of people out there who just won't want to pay for anything. I call this the 80-20 Garage rule. 80% of your customers are valued, polite and easy to deal with people. This 80% will take up 20% of your time.

On the otherhand, you have 20% of people who there is just no pleasing and them walking into a garage for some reason is just like them getting a green light to act the complete c*nt with you. These 20% of people will take up 80% of your time. If you are running a garage,(these 20% of people like garages because they can throw their weight around and do what they do best, which is mess people around), you need to very quickly identify these people who fit into this 20% category and prevent them from f*cking up your business.

Darragh29

blackiebest wrote: »

However from my very first post I was misquoted, accused of being stupid etc after posting a 100% honest experience.

blackiebest wrote: »

Now I am not sure why this country is as f**ked as it is but all the above is true, 100%, and at this point I think we as a nation are collectively stupid and accept paying completely stupid prices for parts and what is often shi*e work.

The dealer has agreed to allow me work with the mechanic as I like to learn, want to get a good look under my car and make sure job is executed correctly...

Here is a quote from your first post here. You are not being misquoted, you are simply being pulled up on what is an untirely unreasonable request for any business to be expected to entertain. You still don't understand that this provider is running a business, not a hobby shop and I can't get over the fact that you don't trust him or his staff to do the job to the required standard without you being there to "make sure the job is executed correctly", yet you have the neck to ask the same person to effectively train you how to do the job at the same time!

metricspaces

Darragh29 wrote: »

You don't understand the fundamantals of what is happening here. In Ireland, you are buying in a market of 5,000,000 consumers. That is the same population roughly as Manchester. If you are buying in the UK, you are buying in a market that is closer to 50,000,000 consumers. Of course prices will be lower in a market ten times the size of our market.

Why are you trying to defend the indefensible? You are wasting your time.

Several people have outlined to you how they have sourced parts from the UK at prices that are in some cases 50% cheaper than Irish prices.

There is simply no economic argument for this price difference. It boils down to one simple thing. Main dealers inflate their prices for parts in Ireland because they can\could get away with it.

Car parts are no different to any other goods a consumer may want to purchase. They are goods, simple as that. Why don't we see this massive price difference in other goods between the UK and Ireland?

Darragh29

metricspaces wrote: »

Why are you trying to defend the indefensible? You are wasting your time.

Several people have outlined to you how they have sourced parts from the UK at prices that are in some cases 50% cheaper than Irish prices.

There is simply no economic argument for this price difference. It boils down to one simple thing. Main dealers inflate their prices for parts in Ireland because they can\could get away with it.

Car parts are no different to any other goods a consumer may want to purchase. They are goods, simple as that. Why don't we see this massive price difference in other goods between the UK and Ireland?

That's just a populist agrument to a large degree. Don't forget, I've the biggest problem here with main dealers, a f*cking competitor that I have to buy off because of 1950's restrictive market practices!

As I said, when we were all sitting back nice and smug watching our houses increase by the same amount as our monthly salary each month, this is where the problem started. Because when those houses were increasing at stupid rates, so too was the cost of occupancy for industrial property!

So I can't run with this "you'z are all robbing c*nts", battle cry I hear on this thread! Do you have any idea what it is like with a 50K a year rent bill hanging over your head??? With a County Council that want 10K a year just to pay some f*cking idiot of a pen pusher a salary??? Utility bills that cost hundreds of Euro a month before you've even picked up a phone or turned on a light switch!?!?!

reverandkenjami

metricspaces wrote: »

Why are you trying to defend the indefensible? You are wasting your time.

Several people have outlined to you how they have sourced parts from the UK at prices that are in some cases 50% cheaper than Irish prices.

There is simply no economic argument for this price difference. It boils down to one simple thing. Main dealers inflate their prices for parts in Ireland because they can\could get away with it.

Car parts are no different to any other goods a consumer may want to purchase. They are goods, simple as that. Why don't we see this massive price difference in other goods between the UK and Ireland?

Have you ever heard of higher rent/rates/wages/tax etc etc etc

All goods are dearer in Ireland. It costs more to do business here then in the UK. If you can't see the difference you are blind my friend! Walk into debanhams or any UK retail outlet and look at the price tage. Why does the same piece of clothing cots £12.99 in the UK but €22 in Ireland? I think you are the one who does not understand economics!!

And i'm just gonna throw this out there:

I work for a main dealer.. We buy our parts off the distributor @ x amount and mark up 30%. Nothing worng with that, our trade customers(majority of our sales) get 10-15% discount. We make 15-20% profit on these parts. The problem lies on the fact our UK counterpart can buy the same part off their distrubutor for up to 25% cheaper than we can! How can we compete with that?

metricspaces

Darragh29 wrote: »

That's just a populist agrument to a large degree.

As I said - Car parts are no different to any other goods a consumer may want to purchase. They are goods, simple as that. Why don't we see this massive price difference in other goods between the UK and Ireland?

You seem to be mixing up two things

1) Car parts prices.
2) The rates a mechanic has to charge in order to cover his costs.

Simple solution. Have your rates at a level that allows you cover your costs. There's no reason why you should be making money on car parts.

metricspaces

reverandkenjami wrote: »

Have you ever heard of higher rent/rates/wages/tax etc etc etc

All goods are dearer in Ireland. It costs more to do business here then in the UK.

As I said - Car parts are no different to any other goods a consumer may want to purchase. They are goods, simple as that. Why don't we see this massive price difference in other goods between the UK and Ireland?

I'm sorry but a 100% increase isn't explained by"higher rent/rates/wages/tax etc etc etc".

Darragh29

metricspaces wrote: »

As I said - Car parts are no different to any other goods a consumer may want to purchase. They are goods, simple as that. Why don't we see this massive price difference in other goods between the UK and Ireland?

You seem to be mixing up two things

1) Car parts prices.
2) The rates a mechanic has to charge in order to cover his costs.

Simple solution. Have your rates at a level that allows you cover your costs. There's no reason why you should be making money on car parts.

What planet are you living on, you can't get into f*cking Newry for all the southern cars going up there!!! They aren't all going up there to have their cars serviced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

samsemtex

reverandkenjami wrote: »

Have you ever heard of higher rent/rates/wages/tax etc etc etc

All goods are dearer in Ireland. It costs more to do business here then in the UK. If you can't see the difference you are blind my friend! Walk into debanhams or any UK retail outlet and look at the price tage. Why does the same piece of clothing cots £12.99 in the UK but €22 in Ireland? I think you are the one who does not understand economics!!

And i'm just gonna throw this out there:

I work for a main dealer.. We buy our parts off the distributor @ x amount and mark up 30%. Nothing worng with that, our trade customers(majority of our sales) get 10-15% discount. We make 15-20% profit on these parts. The problem lies on the fact our UK counterpart can buy the same part off their distrubutor for up to 25% cheaper than we can! How can we compete with that?

So you make up for this 25% extra you have to pay over UK dealers by adding another 30% on top of it? Then you charge labour rates ranging from 50% to 100% higher than your UK counterparts despite the real cost of labour being only marginally more expensive here than it is in Britain. Im sorry but your 25% higher price to pay the UK parts distributor seems to have been covered and then some.

Darragh29

samsemtex wrote: »

So you make up for this 25% extra you have to pay over UK dealers by adding another 30% on top of it? Then you charge labour rates ranging from 50% to 100% higher than your UK counterparts despite the real cost of labour being only marginally more expensive here than it is in Britain. Im sorry but your 25% higher price to pay the UK parts distributor seems to have been covered and then some.

Your not facing reality, it's not just your own labour costs that are substantially higher, EVERYTHING cost's substantially more! Your stationary costs more because the guy who does your stationary is paying himself more than his counterpart in NI/UK. The guy who is supplying him with raw materials is paying himself substantially more, so his raw materials are costing him more. The same goes for your ESB, do you think the workers in the electricity industry in the UK are on an average yearly income of 70K???

By the time I give you an invoice, there are around 20-30 odd different suppliers, all overpaying themselves, who themselves are paying way over the odds for their premises and facilities, who's businesses you are making a contribution towards, when you pay my invoice! Things like web design, site hosting, admin supplies, light & heat, telecoms, solicitors, annual accounting and CRO compliance costs, advertising, security, building insurance & maintenance, rent, rates, wages, pensions, water charges, waste disposal, vehicle HP, professional insurance, road risk insurance, etc, etc, etc...

Drummerboy08

All this talk of rates and hourly charges.....

I hear the mechanics in India charge a tenner an hour, even cheaper than the UK!

Why dont you compare the irish market to them?

Or compare it to say, Ughanda, where the labour rate is probably a few cent. Sure you'd get your car serviced for nothing!

Comparing the price of labour in Ireland to the price of labour in the UK or the North is simply not a viable concept -

1 - The minimum wage is a LOT more in Ireland, even taking into account the exchange rate.

2 - Overheads in Ireland are a LOT more expensive than the UK (VAT, Insurance, Tools, Rent, Electricity, Heat)

3 - The cost of living is also higher in Ireland. Like it or not, we are one of the most expensive countries to live in Europe at the moment.

It is two different economies, the point of there being a much larger population in the UK does also make a difference too. Think about it. The more units you can potentially sell, the cheaper it will be.

Unfortunately, it is more expensive to have your car serviced in Ireland, than it is in the UK, like it is more expensive to buy the car, to buy a TV, to buy a loaf of bread.

Darragh29

I used to have a mechanic from Mauritius working for me and I remember everytime he got paid on a Friday, he couldn't understand how come he was getting paid so much. We had a chat one day about how it works back in Mauritius and he said he gets paid more in a month in Ireland than he would see in a year back in Mauritius, and back in his own country, it's up at 6AM, in work for 6:30AM and it's a 12-14 hour day. Also, everyone over there is poor or the vast majority of people are, so they can't afford new parts, everything is about reusing and recycling and taking short cuts, kind of like what used to happen back here in the 80's when nobody had a pot to p*ss into.

We've moved on since then and obviously costs are higher, not just for garages but for everyone, and as I said, the same people on here who are admonishing garages and mechanics, have been relishing the huge rise in the price of their personal property, while almost expecting property prices for businesses to move in the other direction and this unfortunately is not how the world turns...

reverandkenjami

samsemtex wrote: »

So you make up for this 25% extra you have to pay over UK dealers by adding another 30% on top of it? Im sorry but your 25% higher price to pay the UK parts distributor seems to have been covered and then some.

Your reading it as you want to see it! Where did i mention adding an extra 30%???????

UK dealer buys part from distrubutor for £100. Dealer mark up brings the retail price to £130+vat. The £30 is the dealers profit.

Irish dealer buys the same part from same distributor for €150. Dealer mark up brings the part to €195+vat. €45 being irish dealers profit.

Can you see the difference starting to emerge? Don't forget this is before VAT is added and discount if applicable.

With sterling the way it is it would cost you about €60 less to buy it from the UK. Thats not the dealer ripping you off, we make the same as the guys in the UK if we sell the part.

Irish and UK dealers make the same profit margin. The problem is the parts cost price- which is basically the distributor setting a higher price because we are irish!

blackiebest

As I posted earlier, I collected my clutch yesterday. For the purpose of clarity all figures to follow are exclusive of VAT and in Euro at normal ex rates (UK or Irish)

The clutch for my forester cost me €133.00 delivered to Northern Ireland.

I got it delivered there (poste Rente) as it saved me £20 by DHL and I live 22 km from border PO.

The original quotation for the same part from Subaru dealer was €675.00 (Subaru part)

I went into a "Top Part"s retail outlet today to price (spuirous) same and was quoted €330 retail and after bargaining for trade ended uo at €287.00

My part is manufactured with licence from Subaru and comes with 2 year guarantee.

Taking best IR price @ €287.00, I saved myself 115%.

If anyone here thinks a punter like me should pay 115% more for the same part before the toolies mark-up and think it ok they are living on another planet.

It is in-excusable and no amount of bluster can justify such a difference.

I will happily post images of receipt or direct link to supplier to avoid any confusion.

It is a joke to attempt to justify the difference in price. We should NEVER be so un-competitive as a country and the reason we are is a combination of greed and ignorance

Mr.Diagnostic

blackiebest wrote: »

I will happily post images of receipt or direct link to supplier to avoid any confusion.

Its not that I don’t believe you about the price, but I would be interested to see the link.

blackiebest

MR. Diagnostic, The clutch I bought is here http://www.buypartsby.co.uk/clutch_kit_display.php?txtmodel=Forester&Submit=Next&txtmake=Subaru

The HT leads with the free plugs here http://www.justkampers.com/shop/type_2_split/catalogsearch/result/?q=ht+leads&q_store=all&submit.x=0&submit.y=0

The Exhaust system here http://www.justkampers.com/shop/type_2_split/catalogsearch/result/?q=exhaust&q_store=type_25&submit.x=59&submit.y=6

NOTE; Further discounts are available when certain forums are mentioned etc.

Now I assume, from your handle, that you often purchase parts and in my, amateur, experience I have found over 100% savings on all items above most notably the HT leads (over 200%), Leaving VAT out the differences are obvious. I believe the suppliers in this country should not be supported with these differences. Regardless of operating costs and believe me I know all about them in this country, we must strive to be compete and deliver value for money.

Without forums such as this I would never have known where to source parts, find information, get MULTIPLE opinions on problems etc. In the past we, the punters, had to put up with crazy parts prices, often shoddy work which often did not fix the problem and still have to pay through the teeth. I hilighted my experiences here in order to help people who buy parts, both mechanics and joe public. If the people on here were to take the time to source and search for parts, be they mechanics or Joe Public then we would bring about change. Darragh indicated to me that he thought I shouldj be paying €250 for the clutch where as the best, after much haggling I could get from a national parts supplier was €287 ex VAT.

Out of interest how much would you have paid for same had I come to you? And under normal circumstances how much would I have paid you for that part? It is not a loaded question, I am sick of fighting here, but please post what it would have cost.

I do not begrudge anyone making fair profit at all, I just do not want to participate or be expected to in such a rip off market as is the parts industry in this country

Drummerboy08

blackiebest wrote: »

As I posted earlier, I collected my clutch yesterday. For the purpose of clarity all figures to follow are exclusive of VAT and in Euro at normal ex rates (UK or Irish)

The clutch for my forester cost me €133.00 delivered to Northern Ireland.

I got it delivered there (poste Rente) as it saved me £20 by DHL and I live 22 km from border PO.

The original quotation for the same part from Subaru dealer was €675.00 (Subaru part)

I went into a "Top Part"s retail outlet today to price (spuirous) same and was quoted €330 retail and after bargaining for trade ended uo at €287.00

My part is manufactured with licence from Subaru and comes with 2 year guarantee.

Taking best IR price @ €287.00, I saved myself 115%.

If anyone here thinks a punter like me should pay 115% more for the same part before the toolies mark-up and think it ok they are living on another planet.

It is in-excusable and no amount of bluster can justify such a difference.

I will happily post images of receipt or direct link to supplier to avoid any confusion.

It is a joke to attempt to justify the difference in price. We should NEVER be so un-competitive as a country and the reason we are is a combination of greed and ignorance

Thats a good deal right there. Well done sir.

I cant see why there was such a difference in price though, even with the exchange rate at the minute, thats a massive difference!

Well done again.

LoveDucati2

blackiebest wrote: »

A

The clutch for my forester cost me €133.00 delivered to Northern Ireland.

The original quotation for the same part from Subaru dealer was €675.00 (Subaru part)

Jesus Blackie that is some markup. BTW I didn't doubt you about price.

Is that including labour.

Telling a customer that parts are €200 of which €50 is a kickback is lying, the parts are now only €150, this is simply dishonest and is possibly fraud. You are creating a contract with a customer that has fictitious parts pricing on it.

I think we should start a sticky with a breakdown of labour costs per jobs, and costs for certain items so no poor smhuck gets ripped off like this.

Thinking about setting up a website www.ratemygarage or www.ratemymechanic and then we would get some transparency. Anyone interested in showing these ripoff garages up?

LoveDucati2

rebel.ranter wrote: »

Anyone care to take on the challenge of a YouTube 20 minute service? I would like to see a video of a 20 minute service. Even better again if it could be repeated over & over for a full day's work.

Well go on you tube then, they are already there.:)

Darragh29

blackiebest wrote: »

As I posted earlier, I collected my clutch yesterday. For the purpose of clarity all figures to follow are exclusive of VAT and in Euro at normal ex rates (UK or Irish)

The clutch for my forester cost me €133.00 delivered to Northern Ireland.

I got it delivered there (poste Rente) as it saved me £20 by DHL and I live 22 km from border PO.

The original quotation for the same part from Subaru dealer was €675.00 (Subaru part)

I went into a "Top Part"s retail outlet today to price (spuirous) same and was quoted €330 retail and after bargaining for trade ended uo at €287.00

My part is manufactured with licence from Subaru and comes with 2 year guarantee.

Taking best IR price @ €287.00, I saved myself 115%.

If anyone here thinks a punter like me should pay 115% more for the same part before the toolies mark-up and think it ok they are living on another planet.

It is in-excusable and no amount of bluster can justify such a difference.

I will happily post images of receipt or direct link to supplier to avoid any confusion.

It is a joke to attempt to justify the difference in price. We should NEVER be so un-competitive as a country and the reason we are is a combination of greed and ignorance

What manufacturer has made this clutch under licence for your Subara, because to me, £131 sounds a little "too cheap" for this product. Also, when you went into Top Part, what make was the clutch they offered to supply you with for 287 Euro???

Also, I think that as you have offered to, that you should post up evidence of the prices you are providing here, because to be honest, it is not possible at the moment to see if you are comparing like to like here. So my questions are:

Where exactly is the clutch you have acquired for £131 coming from and what brand product is it?

What brand product is the Top Part clutch you have been quoted 287 Euro for...

Most importantly, do you not think that you should go back to Subara and ask them for an explanation with regard to the quote for €675.00 for these parts??? Because you seem to be egging everyone else here to take up arms, so maybe you should be leading from the front on this particular issue instead of being a hurler on the ditch.

Darragh29

I've just priced a Subaru clutch for this car through a supplier in Dublin for 306 Euro Retail. LuK Part no: 623-304-960...

This is the same brand of clutch that this poster can acquire for £133.

The point I'm making is that if this poster wanted this issue resolved immediately, as in had a problem today and wanted his car fixed tomorrow, the price of the clutch in the Irish market is around 300 Euro. This is completely outside the control of any garage in Ireland...

Mr.Diagnostic

blackiebest wrote: »

MR. Diagnostic, The clutch I bought is here http://www.buypartsby.co.uk/clutch_kit_display.php?txtmodel=Forester&Submit=Next&txtmake=Subaru

Thanks for the link. That was a superb price.
I had wondered if it was a recon unit or something but no, excellent value.

I feel there is a lot more to this issue and unfortunately I am too busy now to do the subject justice but I will do an epic post later

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Telling a customer that parts are €200 of which €50 is a kickback is lying, the parts are now only €150, this is simply dishonest and is possibly fraud.

I think it would be more accurate to use the word “profit” instead of “kickback” When a business sells an item and makes a “profit” that is quite honest. To suggest it is dishonest for a business to make a 25% markup on a sale (in your example) but to suggest it is possibly fraudulent is unbelievable.

blackiebest

Darragh29 wrote: »

I've just priced a Subaru clutch for this car through a supplier in Dublin for 306 Euro Retail. LuK Part no: 623-304-960...

This is the same brand of clutch that this poster can acquire for £133.

The point I'm making is that if this poster wanted this issue resolved immediately, as in had a problem today and wanted his car fixed tomorrow, the price of the clutch in the Irish market is around 300 Euro. This is completely outside the control of any garage in Ireland...

Well thats a very different point to the one you made when I orginally posted. The reason I want to supply the parts for the job is because the garage is unable to supply the clutch for less than 100% more than I can get it for them. You mention 306 euro retail, please clarify if this is the best price you, the mechanic, can buy it for or is that Joe Public price and if this 306 is inclusive of VAT or not? I would also be interested to get your opinions on the HT leads and exhaust systems I also linked to, am I off the wall in claiming they too are available for half the price.

Given the DHL is 2/3 days I would feel most punters would be happy enough to wait, given the savings. Very often people need to wait at least 24 hours anyhow in this country before the parts arrive.

If I am the one, who needs to point you, the professionals, to where the same parts can be bought at these discounts then I would assert that as a mechanic you are extremely competant and efficent but that your procurement leaves a lot to be desired and specifically in your case I suggest your attitude towards this subject could do with a "full service".

I am not on here to bust mechanics chops, I am pissed off with paying between 100/200% more for parts before your mark up.

I have never disputed hourly rates NOR markup on parts by the mechanic's. If I had been offered the clutch at €250 I never would have gone and found it at €133. Thats a potential profit of €117 for the likes of you I would have happily paid, and thought I had got a good deal, left my money in a local business etc.

LoveDucati2

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

I think it would be more accurate to use the word “profit” instead of “kickback” When a business sells an item and makes a “profit” that is quite honest. To suggest it is dishonest for a business to make a 25% markup on a sale (in your example) but to suggest it is possibly fraudulent is unbelievable.

It is not profit,

If you quote a price for parts and labour, why don't you tell customer the real price for the parts then, and clearly illustrate the "profit" you are making alongside the Labour charge.

How many people here would be happy to pay then.

Also what price do you pay your VAT on. The price you pay or the fictional price you have quoted to the customer.

Do you pay TAX on the "profit" or just pocket it?

This is wrong, I cannot understand why you cannot see that this is a rip off.

Darragh29

blackiebest wrote: »

Well thats a very different point to the one you made when I orginally posted. The reason I want to supply the parts for the job is because the garage is unable to supply the clutch for less than 100% more than I can get it for them. You mention 306 euro retail, please clarify if this is the best price you, the mechanic, can buy it for or is that Joe Public price and if this 306 is inclusive of VAT or not? I would also be interested to get your opinions on the HT leads and exhaust systems I also linked to, am I off the wall in claiming they too are available for half the price.

Given the DHL is 2/3 days I would feel most punters would be happy enough to wait, given the savings. Very often people need to wait at least 24 hours anyhow in this country before the parts arrive.

If I am the one, who needs to point you, the professionals, to where the same parts can be bought at these discounts then I would assert that as a mechanic you are extremely competant and efficent but that your procurement leaves a lot to be desired and specifically in your case I suggest your attitude towards this subject could do with a "full service".

I am not on here to bust mechanics chops, I am pissed off with paying between 100/200% more for parts before your mark up.

I have never disputed hourly rates NOR markup on parts by the mechanic's. If I had been offered the clutch at €250 I never would have gone and found it at €133. Thats a potential profit of €117 for the likes of you I would have happily paid, and thought I had got a good deal, left my money in a local business etc.

As Mr. D Said, the price of 133 Euro for a 228MM Subaru LuK clutch to me is an extraodrinarily low price for a product such as an LuK replacement clutch that is considered to be at the very very top end of the clutch replacement market in terms of clutch quality.

Again though, I don't think you are correct in stating that people would be prepared to wait around for 2-3 days for their car to be put back on the road. Maybe now that thankfully money is starting to have some value again and people and putting an importance on the value of what they have in their pocket, this might change, but my experience up until now is that you were competing on (1) When you could do the job and (2) How much you can do it for and what guarantee you will give with it.

From my experience, the vast majority of people want a same day service or else leave it in today and get it back tomorrow.

I accept howver that there is clearly a problem when a company in the UK can sell this product to you for £133 and the exact same product in th eexact same box in this country will cost you 306 Euro going my the price I was given.

However, the people behind this are not garages or mechanics. No more than the outrageous costs that are associated with utilities like ESB, Telecoms, etc. There is a problem here, I accept that, but it is not caused by garages or mechanics and the answer is not to run with a situation where customers supply their own parts and mechannics fit these parts. That 133 Euro clutch could have been a reconditioned part that would not be anywhere near the same quality as an LuK clutch for example, and as I said, that 133 Euro price does sound extraordinarily low for this particular clutch...

An interesting exercise would be to start a new thread on this specific topic and pick a particular part number for a part for one car each day and see what difference in price is between Irish suppliers and UK suppliers that can supply through the internet, on a strictly like for like basis...

Darragh29

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

It is not profit,

If you quote a price for parts and labour, why don't you tell customer the real price for the parts then, and clearly illustrate the "profit" you are making alongside the Labour charge.

How many people here would be happy to pay then.

Also what price do you pay your VAT on. The price you pay or the fictional price you have quoted to the customer.

Do you pay TAX on the "profit" or just pocket it?

This is wrong, I cannot understand why you cannot see that this is a rip off.

I just rang a parts supplier on this Suraru clutch and was quoted 306 Euro RETAIL. That is the recommend retail price of that product as rcommended by LuK. I (not you!), get a trade discount on that. If I'm putting 20K into parts a month for customers, I want a return on that 20K! That 20K has to earn money for me, simply because I need it to or I can't pay my overheads at the end of the month!

If putting a reasonable mark up on a product before selling it is a kick-back, then every single business in the world, including the one that you work for by the way, is involved in a scam.

Drummerboy08

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

It is not profit,

If you quote a price for parts and labour, why don't you tell customer the real price for the parts then, and clearly illustrate the "profit" you are making alongside the Labour charge.

How many people here would be happy to pay then.

Also what price do you pay your VAT on. The price you pay or the fictional price you have quoted to the customer.

Do you pay TAX on the "profit" or just pocket it?

This is wrong, I cannot understand why you cannot see that this is a rip off.

The next time you go into the shop to buy a carton of milk, ask the owner what price he buys it at, and then how much profit he makes.

Then tell him you want to buy it at the cost price instead.

See how quickly your landed on the footpath with a kick up the ar*e.

LoveDucati2

Darragh29 wrote: »

Again though, I don't think you are correct in stating that people would be prepared to wait around for 2-3 days for their car to be put back on the road.

Are you mad!

Buy your own clutch and wait 2 days or pay whats below

The original quotation for the same part from Subaru dealer was €675.00 + whatever Labour on top of this

LoveDucati2

Darragh29 wrote: »

I just rang a parts supplier on this Suraru clutch and was quoted 306 Euro RETAIL. That is the recommend retail price of that product as rcommended by LuK. I (not you!), get a trade discount on that. If I'm putting 20K into parts a month for customers, I want a return on that 20K! That 20K has to earn money for me, simply because I need it to or I can't pay my overheads at the end of the month!

If putting a reasonable mark up on a product before selling it is a kick-back, then every single business in the world, including the one that you work for by the way, is involved in a scam.

why don't you tell customer the real price for the parts then, and clearly illustrate the "profit" you are making alongside the Labour charge.

LoveDucati2

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

The next time you go into the shop to buy a carton of milk, ask the owner what price he buys it at, and then how much profit he makes.

Then tell him you want to buy it at the cost price instead.

See how quickly your landed on the footpath with a kick up the ar*e.

But the shop wont be charging 60 quid and hour labour to sell the milk

Drummerboy08

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

But the shop wont be charging 60 quid and hour labour to sell the milk

Yes but the shop will charge you a cost in proportion to the product sold/work taken to sell the product.

Same way, a mechanic will charge you a fee to repair your clutch. It is caleld trade- generally people charge another person for a product/service provided.

In this case its both.

-Chris-

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

It is not profit,

If you quote a price for parts and labour, why don't you tell customer the real price for the parts then, and clearly illustrate the "profit" you are making alongside the Labour charge.

How many people here would be happy to pay then.

Also what price do you pay your VAT on. The price you pay or the fictional price you have quoted to the customer.

Do you pay TAX on the "profit" or just pocket it?

This is wrong, I cannot understand why you cannot see that this is a rip off.

If a plumber comes to my house, I don't ask him how much the pipes he's fitting cost him.
If I contract a builder to build an extension, I don't ask him how much his bricks cost.
If I'm employing the services of a web-designer, I don't ask him how much he's paying the photographer he's contracted in.

I'm aware that when someone is running a business that involves labour, expertise and "parts", if I allow them to source those "parts", then there's every likelihood they'll have a markup in those parts.


If the builder lets me supply my own bricks, and I can get bricks cheaper than he's quoting, then I have to make the decision whether the short-term gain of cheaper blocks weighs up against the long-term risk of (in the case of cracks in the wall or subsidence or something) the builder taking limited responsibility and blaming the issue on my bricks.


I compare suppliers based on their overall price. I go with the one who provides me with best value. I don't care if they make all their money from labour or parts or a combination of both.


I would NEVER suggest that a supplier making a markup on materials supplied was a scam or rip off - where they make their profit, and how they make it, is none of my business.
If I didn't like the way they did things, or didn't think they were giving me value, I wouldn't use their services. It's as simple as that.

Darragh29

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Are you mad!

Buy your own clutch and wait 2 days or pay whats below

The original quotation for the same part from Subaru dealer was €675.00 + whatever Labour on top of this

Look, that 675 Euro price is just a joke. In recent years, dealers have been getting away with this because the mindset of their customer was that if the car was something like a BMW, Merc, Lexus or Subaru, then it was back to the main dealer no matter what they quoted and it's off the back of this nonsense that a price of 675 for a clutch kit has been quoted. The way to deal with this is to go to the dealer & distributor in Ireland for Subaru and ask them what the fu*k is going on with a 675 Euro replacement clutch kit...

Darragh29

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

why don't you tell customer the real price for the parts then, and clearly illustrate the "profit" you are making alongside the Labour charge.

First of all, I've never been asked to do so. I can't imagine I'll see a day when I'll go into Tesco and see on the price display for the potatoes, a figure for the profit that Tesco is making on the bag of potatoes if I put them in my trolley!

Why does the business you work in not give a profit breakdown at the bottom of every invoice issued???

pred racer

Darragh29 wrote: »

An interesting exercise would be to start a new thread on this specific topic and pick a particular part number for a part for one car each day and see what difference in price is between Irish suppliers and UK suppliers that can supply through the internet, on a strictly like for like basis...

good Idea..

Drummerboy08

That is a good idea alright...

blackiebest

Darragh29 wrote: »

What manufacturer has made this clutch under licence for your Subara, because to me, £131 sounds a little "too cheap" for this product. Also, when you went into Top Part, what make was the clutch they offered to supply you with for 287 Euro???

Also, I think that as you have offered to, that you should post up evidence of the prices you are providing here, because to be honest, it is not possible at the moment to see if you are comparing like to like here. So my questions are:

Where exactly is the clutch you have acquired for £131 coming from and what brand product is it?

What brand product is the Top Part clutch you have been quoted 287 Euro for...

Most importantly, do you not think that you should go back to Subara and ask them for an explanation with regard to the quote for €675.00 for these parts??? Because you seem to be egging everyone else here to take up arms, so maybe you should be leading from the front on this particular issue instead of being a hurler on the ditch.

Darragh, I just read this post now. I hope my previously posted links have cleared up your doubts if not your tone.

Can you answer my previously asked questions and please accept that I am not looking for a fight, nor to have a go at anything other than what is obviously wrong in your industry. I am not looking for anyone to take up arms, I am trying to highlight what I see as wrong and wonder as to how anyone, anywhere could attempt to justify the differences. Look at the exhaust kit for the VW. For £191 I got delivered to me the entire system, manifolds etc etc with a haynes manual thrown in. Top Part wanted €300 for the silencer only!

I have better things to be doing than sourcing parts which should be sourced by your industry at these prices. If you were doing what I do then the parts part of your invoice would be far easier on the pocket of your customer.

I have dropped the axe and respectfully ask you to clarify, if the 306euro was best trade, included vat, comment on HT price and exhaust.

I agree that another thread might be worthwhile comparing like for like prices. I think you should concede it is unreasonable to think I am stupid for wanting to supply these parts at these prices to my mechanic especially as I am not trying to take a single penny off his balance sheet, the opposite is the case, I would be happy to increase his profits if he marked up the parts with a bigger margin so long as he purchased them 100/200% cheaper

Darragh, to answer your question re Top Part clutch manufacturer, I dont know but if its important I will find out?

Darragh29

blackiebest wrote: »

I have dropped the axe...

As have I...

blackiebest wrote: »

...And ask you to clarify, if the 306euro was best trade, included vat...

The price of 306 Euro is retail price including VAT. I would expect to get a discount of around 25% on that... As for the exhaust parts, I'm going to have a look at these and see what the story is there and get back to you later on those...

blackiebest wrote: »

I agree that another thread might be worthwhile comparing like for like prices. I think you should concede it is unreasonable to think I am stupid for wanting to supply these parts at these prices to my mechanic especially as I am not trying to take a single penny off his balance sheet, the opposite is the case, I would be happy to increase his profits if he marked up the parts with a bigger margin so long as he purchased them 100/200% cheaper

If it was as simple as you think it would be to allow customers supply their own parts, I'd be all for it. If it could be accommodated in the context of running a professional and efficient business operation, I don't see why it couldn't be done. The problem is that in my experience, once you allow this to happen, you won't always have high quality parts being bought by the customer. In addition to the quality of the parts being open to question, you'll often have the wrong parts being bought, which is hugely disruptive to a garage operation, as you have a car stuck on a lift, which if correct parts have to be ordered from the internet again from the UK, you are looking at what could be a car stuck on a lift for up to a week, with parts being sent back for credit and the correct parts being issued from the UK again.

It also tends to be the thin edge of the wedge in terms of people asking you to depart from your business model. What I've found is that if you allow a customer to supply parts, they'll usually ask you to do better on the labour charge, and it is usually the first of a string of stupid and loss making requests you'll have to entertain, because you've already given them the message that you'll have whatever they are having, in relation to where the parts are coming from.

blackiebest

Darragh29 wrote: »

As have I...



The price of 306 Euro is retail price including VAT. I would expect to get a discount of around 25% on that... As for the exhaust parts, I'm going to have a look at these and see what the story is there and get back to you later on those...



If it was as simple as you think it would be to allow customers supply their own parts, I'd be all for it. If it could be accommodated in the context of running a professional and efficient business operation, I don't see why it couldn't be done. The problem is that in my experience, once you allow this to happen, you won't always have high quality parts being bought by the customer. In addition to the quality of the parts being open to question, you'll often have the wrong parts being bought, which is hugely disruptive to a garage operation, as you have a car stuck on a lift, which if correct parts have to be ordered from the internet again from the UK, you are looking at what could be a car stuck on a lift for up to a week, with parts being sent back for credit and the correct parts being issued from the UK again.

It also tends to be the thin edge of the wedge in terms of people asking you to depart from your business model. What I've found is that if you allow a customer to supply parts, they'll usually ask you to do better on the labour charge, and it is usually the first of a string of stupid and loss making requests you'll have to entertain, because you've already given them the message that you'll have whatever they are having, in relation to where the parts are coming from.

I agree with almost all of the above post;) and hope you see why I feel justified in wanting to buing the quality parts to the mechanic I use. I have stated I have had no issue with hourly rates or mark up on trade price for parts, only price paid for the parts in the first place. I am particular about quality and correctness in terms of part numbers etc and have had to educate myself as to how to ID part numbers I require. I think your generalisation of how a customer like me, who wants to pay fair price to all, would be the thin edge of a slippery slope to doom is wrong. i should not be the one involved in this discussion, it should be the professionals in your industry and you should no accept what your supplier is charging you. I do believe most people can wait, and I dont think it is ten days, In my experience it is 2/3 days and I am in a rural west of Ireland town! But fcuk it we should be able to go and buy or order parts at decent prices in this country. I hate feeling shafted and every time I have left a veichle (I have 4:o) into a mechanic, over the last number of years I have always felt like a complete eejit paying extrodinary prices for what rarely felt like a good job and never felt like value for money. It is for these reasons that I undertake to self teach myself and do the job myself, then it feels great, know the job is done right etc. But I am trying to run another company and do not have the time. If it was not winter and freezing, I would take the Subaru on myself, and slowly do the best job possible, however time and weather dictate this is not possible and the only thing I want to get is a job well done at a FAIR price.

So lets start the comparison thread, I have some great experience in how to find the parts and look forward to partcipating in the challenge:D

Subaru will be done tomorrow and I do not have the time to stay with mechanic so please GOD he does not fcuk it up:)

w123

And now it's time for a group hug.

I must say that I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this topic.

Some points.

In most businesses the mark-up on items supplied goes towards the cost of supplying that item - time to order, store costs, finance costs etc. this is what the mark up pays for.

In the motor trade a lot of these costs do not apply as the customer has to pay the full price when they collect the car and indeed the garage will get credit from their supplier - but they do still have to go to the bother of getting the parts and why should that be free?

In my view most people don't trust garages because they have either been burned - unlikely - or heard anecdotal evidence of others that have been burnt. Regular features in our wonderful media tell of this, what they don't say is that the majority of people have no such horror stories. The modern car is a testement to the advances in engineering over the last 30 years - they are driven longer and faster and yet require less routine maintenance.

Another reason in my view that garages aren't trusted is that for the majority mechanics are like magicians - they can conjour up a problem and for a price make it disappear. With the customer who, rarely understands what happens under the bonnet as mystified as the kids at a majic show.

The solution - as in other EU countries - Germany for one I believe - before a license to drive is issued, ensure that the driver understands the fundamentals of how the internal combustion engine and all of it's ancillary parts works.

I love getting my hands dirty - I have asked when I have had the time can I observe a mechanic - never been allowed - but not been too disappointed. They spent the time learning their trade, and I'd only get in the way.

Darragh, I'd be very interested in your new venture, getting to attempt a job with a mechanic on standby and a full set of workshop tools at my disposal would be an ideal situation.

Blackie, I think that you're dead right in ordering the parts that you can make such substantial savings on - but bear in mind as you said yourself the owner of the garage was a friend - that is why you are allowed to watch/help/hinder. If I had asked I would not have been allowed.

It's not rocket science, but it is a business and that business is repairing/servicing cars not education.

I'm glad that you've made up though.

CPG

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

As I've said before on this forum, would you bring your own steak to a restaurant and ask them to cook it ?? any decent garage should refuse to use customer supplied parts in case of liability problems due to part failure.

Not a fair comparison, OK if we a talking about main dealers, perhaps. However independant garages can and do service cars with rubbish parts. What I do is bring along my own bits and bobs for the service or repair, and when I do book the car in I get asked "are you supplying your parts" My garage only stocks plugs filters, oil etc, And they are also quite happy for me to bring along my own oil.

Darragh29

w123 wrote: »

In the motor trade a lot of these costs do not apply as the customer has to pay the full price when they collect the car and indeed the garage will get credit from their supplier - but they do still have to go to the bother of getting the parts and why should that be free?

This is another issue major issue for indy garages, is people looking for credit. This happens a lot more often than you would think, and if you do not provide it, you risk losing a valued customer or being seen to be acting unreasonably, and if you do provide it, you can be sure that your time is taken up chasing your own money.

w123 wrote: »

Another reason in my view that garages aren't trusted is that for the majority mechanics are like magicians - they can conjour up a problem and for a price make it disappear. With the customer who, rarely understands what happens under the bonnet as mystified as the kids at a majic show.

I don't agree with this as a philosophy. I think your mechanic should be as open and forthcoming as can be possible, but some people are just cynical to the core because they've spent too much time being indoctrinated by bar fly idiots down at the local. I have a policy of ALWAYS showing customers their old parts and offering these to the customer if they want to take them away to show a brother or someone who is a mechanic who can explain what they do, etc.

To be honest, dealing with the public is just hard work, especially in relation to their car. It's not like serving Joe Public at Eurospar, where you you go to the checkout and you pay for your goods and it's thank you and have a nice day. It is very common for someone to bring a car into a garage thinking one thing is wrong with it, only to be told after some investigation, that something completely different is actually the cause of the problem.

If the problem is less costly to resolve that you originally thought, say for example if you thought the clutch was gone and you were expecting an estimate of 550 Euro to sort it out and it just turns out that the clutch cable is gone and you get out of it for 100 Euro, of course you are delighted. I have on many occasions given customers this news and they look at me as if I have ten heads like they are saying, "hang on, where's the catch here, you're not supposed to say that!"... I can recall one case of a guy who wasn't my customer who drove an Audi TT but was recommended to me by someone who was my customer. This Audi driver had to get his car recovered to a garage after the pedal went to the floor at the traffic lights. The recovery truck brought the car to some unknown garage and a quote was quickly done up for 1,200 Euro to replace the clutch. This driver called his mate who was my customer and my customer rang me and I said it sounded unusual that the clutch would just fail like that without warning on an Audi TT as they have a hydraulic clutch, so there was no possibility of a clutch cable snapping. The car was put back up on the truck and brought down to me and it turned out the problem was the clutch pedal (a small bit of metal broke off the pedal), and the whole thing was sorted out for around 150 Euro including new pedal assembly and associated clip and spacers from Audi.

Now on the other hand if I'm replacing a clutch and have to ring a customer to tell them that a crankshaft oil seal is gone and the clutch fork needs to be replaced, and the cost of resolving this issue has now gone up by 140 Euro, it is automatically assumed that I'm trying to put a saddle on that customer and I'm the biggest c*nt in town!

This is what you are dealing with day in and day out and unfortunately when you are dealing with misplaced cynicism, it makes the job unbearable at times. If you are in an authorised dealership, you are insulated from all of this as a mechanic, but if you are in an indy garage, well often you have to wear more than one hat.

w123

My point about magicians being - the general public buys a car to get from a to b - have no understanding about what may or may not go wrong - and are as clueles about what the mechanic says and does to rectify the problem as kids at a magic show - I hear you and wouldn't want to be dealing with the general public day in day out telling them that the car they thought was runnibg fine needs a new bearing somewhere or some other part that generally doesn't go, but then again sometimes does. I think that people have the atitude that if it's newish and clean there is no need for any expensive work to be done.

Alicano

Very educational thread!
I'l start by saying i know nothing important about cars etc.
2 Quick questions though (only asking as theres alot of experience in here).
1) took my bmw to indy garage for routine service.no issue with job-fine.paid 343euro for it.did i get burned?.doesnt matter as its done,just curious?
2) Got a printed invoice and sticker in windscreen but no stamp in my service book.should he have stamped it or is he not allowed to?

Apols if these are dumbass questions but as i said..i was givin looks not mechanics macho man knowledge!:)

Darragh29

w123 wrote: »

My point about magicians being - the general public buys a car to get from a to b - have no understanding about what may or may not go wrong - and are as clueles about what the mechanic says and does to rectify the problem as kids at a magic show - I hear you and wouldn't want to be dealing with the general public day in day out telling them that the car they thought was runnibg fine needs a new bearing somewhere or some other part that generally doesn't go, but then again sometimes does. I think that people have the atitude that if it's newish and clean there is no need for any expensive work to be done.

That's the problem. People think 04/05 cars are still "newish". I honestly don't know any mechanics that deliberately set out to break something on a car for the purposes of generating work for themselves, or of any mechanics that try to set out that something is out of order when it isn't. Any mechanics I know in indy garages, are generally happy to get to the end of the day without any unresolved or messy issues hanging over their heads, like a car that has come in that won't start or something with a problem that cannot be identified, or something that was done last week and is back this week for the same problem.

I'd love to know where this deeply rooted cynicism started out from, because mechanic's I know just want to do work, get paid, for as little hassle as possible.

Alicano wrote: »

Very educational thread!
I'l start by saying i know nothing important about cars etc.
2 Quick questions though (only asking as theres alot of experience in here).
1) took my bmw to indy garage for routine service.no issue with job-fine.paid 343euro for it.did i get burned?.doesnt matter as its done,just curious?
2) Got a printed invoice and sticker in windscreen but no stamp in my service book.should he have stamped it or is he not allowed to?

Apols if these are dumbass questions but as i said..i was givin looks not mechanics macho man knowledge!:)

Well it depends exactly on what he did that formed the basis for charging you 343 Euro??? What exactly is on his invoice???

BavarianCare

Hello all,

I'm butting in here and I don't remember half the posts in the thread but there are a few things I'd like to say...

(Maybe I'm remembering the posts incorrectly but I'll give it a shot).


1. Oil Service (only) in 20 mins?!?!?! Total crap - to fully warm the oil the car has to be driven in 95%+ of cases. Before it's even on the hoist it's 10-20 mins gone...

2. "Full" service including air filter in 20 mins?!?!?!?! Rubbish again - it depends on the car.. Try an Air Filter change on an E53 3.0d (and that's only one example)

3. Workshop equipment and tools for €40k - rubbish again if you're doing it properly... Treble that figure and you might be close (for 1 brand)

4. Parts vs Liability - any workshop/indy etc. is perfectly entitled to use his own supplied parts. If the customer doesn't like it, go elsewhere...

5. A customer watching????? To ensure it's done correctly???? Let him do it himself and not darken the door again. Better off having no work for a year than that crap. If they know that much - let them at it themselves (and some do know - but let them do it)

6. And I repeat - you cannot even do a basic service in 20 mins - yes! you can change the oil and filter... Not properly though...

7. A full service including Oil, Air & Fuel for €199 incl. VAT. Rubbish also. An E60 530d uses over €90 in LL04 oil alone... The oil filter (OE=€26), the Air Filter (OE=43), the Fuel Filter (OE=49), the Microfilters (OE=€52) and so on... (And take 25% off that if you wish.. still doesn't add up) Fcuk it, take 50% off it, unless a new calculator has been invented then it's still crap...

8. Software updates?!?!

9. Suspension checks?

10. Calliper in 10 mins?! Yes, can be done - but not if you include lifting the car, taking off the wheel and nevermind bleeding/flushing the hydraulic system

11. Seized calliper for "2 days" doesn't mean disks are required - rubbish. Unless you don't do it correctly...

I'm just fed up now so I'll leave it.

---

And for the sake of peace I'll leave out a full Dealer Level diagnostic that takes 20 mins on its own... (when there are no problems to diag)

Some amount of rubbish on this thread..

Waiting to be slated
E.


PS: A retail customer of mine highlighted this thread and asked me to post yesterday. He has a BMW and he would not allow a "20 min" Oil Change or accept a €199 "full" service.

PPS: Rubbish posts - most of it.

PPPS: Yes, parts prices vary, hugely but the garages get caught too...