Impact rules out public sector pay cuts

murphaph · 24-09-2009 3:18pm

ardmacha wrote: »

Typical inaccurate jimmmy hyperbole. Why bother with facts on the forum?

It must be way up there though.

jimmmy · 24-09-2009 3:34pm

ardmacha wrote: »

Typical inaccurate jimmmy hyperbole. Why bother with facts on the forum?

Ok, lets stick with Europe so. ( rather than some little island in the Carribean or totally Banana republic ). Quote " Under the Constitution of Ireland there must never be fewer than one TD for every thirty thousand of the population, nor more than one for every twenty thousand. In the 29th Dáil there was one TD for every 21,000 citizens, one of the most generous such ratios anywhere in the world. With the adoption of the current constitution in 1937 the membership of the Dáil was reduced from 153 to 138, but in the 1960s the number was increased, only to be increased more substantially in 1981 to the current figure of 166".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1il_%C3%89ireann#Number_of_members

Those facts enough for you ?

NewDubliner · 24-09-2009 5:17pm

the_syco wrote: »

Less money to the banks equals less chance a new business will get a loan to start.

Or, more likely, less money to their shareholders, the people who just made a killing on recent share price gains, and less bonuses and gold-plated/copper-fastened pensions for their executives and directors.

Also means that the banks won't call in the under-secured loans made to property developers & that property prices will be sustained at artificially high levels, instead of allowing the market to rule. Strange how private sector pundits want to use market rules in employment but not in property.

But, I suppose we should all make sacriifices to keep the banksters and property tycoons in the style they've become accustomed to.

jimmmy · 24-09-2009 5:30pm

NewDubliner wrote: »

Or, more likely, less money to their shareholders, the people who just made a killing on recent share price gains,

Most shareholders did not. Far more money was lost on bank shares than was ever made in recent years, given market falls.
Have a look at pension funds too : their returns suffered...even most of the professional investors did not make a killing. Very few people are "banksters and property tycoons" as you so call them. Blaming them for everything is deflecting the blame from those whose job was to make and implement the rules ( politicians, central bank, regulator etc ). There are not 300,000 plus "banksters and property tycoons" sucking the country dry from public borrowings.;).

Teacherman · 24-09-2009 8:06pm

irish_bob wrote: »

our education system is not ran on a shoestring , the problem is, the vast bulk of expenditure goes towards teachers wages , teachers in ireland are paid 75% more than in france and 55% more than in finland , finland comes 3rd in a list of best education systems , ireland is not even in the top 20 , teachers in ireland like guards and nurses need a 25% pay cut spread over the next three years , this would bring them closer in line with thier counterparts in the uk which i also might add is a richer country than us

the property boom which supllied the revenue which allowed this country claim the title of europes highest paid ps is gone , that era is a whole other country

Here is the perfect example of pure bull=in every education system-wages make up a considerable if not majority of expenditure. Education mainly occurs in classrooms-does not require heavy machinery! Ireland is in the top 20 on various categories (Oecd) EDUCATION REPORT 2009) Youre other facts which you provide no sources for are pure fantasy. Could you just not buy a DAn Brown BOOK?

murphaph · 24-09-2009 8:20pm

Teacherman wrote: »

Here is the perfect example of pure bull=in every education system-wages make up a considerable if not majority of expenditure. Education mainly occurs in classrooms-does not require heavy machinery! Ireland is in the top 20 on various categories (Oecd)EDUCATION REPORT 2009) Youre other facts which you provide no sources for are pure fantasy. Could you just not buy a DAn Brown BOOK?

I'm not a grammar Nazi and almost never make any reference to someone's spelling/grammar etc. because I know my own can be flawed, but coming from a teacher that is truly appaling! I hope you're not a primary or english teacher!

irish_bob · 24-09-2009 8:26pm

jimmmy wrote: »

Most shareholders did not. Far more money was lost on bank shares than was ever made in recent years, given market falls.
Have a look at pension funds too : their returns suffered...even most of the professional investors did not make a killing. Very few people are "banksters and property tycoons" as you so call them. Blaming them for everything is deflecting the blame from those whose job was to make and implement the rules ( politicians, central bank, regulator etc ). There are not 300,000 plus "banksters and property tycoons" sucking the country dry from public borrowings.;).

while few in the private sector benefited hugely from the shenanegans of property developers , throwing up gaffs in every one horse town in ireland , everyone in the public sector benefited ( and many a whole lot ) and as bad as the property devlopers were , our teachers , nurses , guards , consultants and administrators could never have held the title of europes highest paid ps without theese chancers , i know if i was a ps worker , id be longing for the return of theese spivs as thier isnt any other revenue generator which can make irelands current ps wage bill sustainable

Teacherman · 24-09-2009 9:21pm

murphaph wrote: »

I'm not a grammar Nazi and almost never make any reference to someone's spelling/grammar etc. because I know my own can be flawed, but coming from a teacher that is truly appaling! I hope you're not a primary or english teacher!

Play the ball not the man-obviously an error. Let me peruse your posts and see what we turn up. Any chance you have anything of substance or are you just being pedantic??!

Teacherman · 24-09-2009 9:24pm

irish_bob wrote: »

while few in the private sector benefited hugely from the shenanegans of property developers , throwing up gaffs in every one horse town in ireland , everyone in the public sector benefited ( and many a whole lot ) and as bad as the property devlopers were , our teachers , nurses , guards , consultants and administrators could never have held the title of europes highest paid ps without theese chancers , i know if i was a ps worker , id be longing for the return of theese spivs as thier isnt any other revenue generator which can make irelands current ps wage bill sustainable

More tripe-we all benefited. Lower taxes,more schools,hospitals,better roads etc A Lot of this was built on financial sand but please don't pretend that you didn't benefit. Even if you were on welfare you benefited! Though, given your level of argument, I surmise you spent much of the boom watching Jeremy Kyle or such nonsense.

murphaph · 24-09-2009 9:28pm

Teacherman wrote: »

Play the ball not the man-obviously an error. Let me peruse your posts and see what we turn up. Any chance you have anything of substance or are you just being a pedantic??!

You mean a pedant? I already said I make mistakes but I'm not responsible for educating the next generation and bemoaning a pay cut at the same time.

irish_bob · 24-09-2009 10:01pm

Teacherman wrote: »

More tripe-we all benefited. Lower taxes,more schools,hospitals,better roads etc A Lot of this was built on financial sand but please don't pretend that you didn't benefit. Even if you were on welfare you benefited! Though, given your level of argument, I surmise you spent much of the boom watching Jeremy Kyle or such nonsense.

well you being a teacher , most certainly benefited , you are paid more than 25% what you would be paid in the uk , 55% more than what you would get in finland , both those countries are richer than ireland

fifth · 24-09-2009 10:14pm

If the public sector get pay cuts, and they're not happy.. then I'll happily switch jobs with any one of them!

NewDubliner · 25-09-2009 8:01am

jimmmy wrote: »

There are not 300,000 plus "banksters and property tycoons" sucking the country dry from public borrowings.;).

True, the numbers benefiting from the bank bailout, is much, much less. It's a small number of privileged, elite people.

gurramok · 25-09-2009 8:15am

So, the general secretary of the IMPACT trade union who happens also to be the FAS chairman involved in an expense & pension scandal rules out public sector pay cuts.

Anyone see the own goal here?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/chairman-will--resign-in-wake-of-wasteful-spend-1896424.html
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0925/fas.html

Nodin · 25-09-2009 9:49am

jimmmy wrote: »

Ok, (................)for you ?

And thus having been exposed for his lack of knowledge once more, Jimmy shifts to another line in the same vein.....

jimmmy wrote: »

Very few people are "banksters and property tycoons" as you so call them

'Hmmm, Caesar was only one guy. Must have had no influence at all'.

Astounding logic there Jimmy.

Nodin · 25-09-2009 9:51am

Martyr wrote: »

Nodin, are you working today? :rolleyes:

Were you?

What relevance might that have one way or the other?

jimmmy · 25-09-2009 10:35am

Could you please attempt to at least answer some of the questions you were asked Nodin ....why always evade them ?

N.B Nodin..... I did not write "You (........)employees ?" as you claim in post no. 112, and it is dishonest of you to claim someone posted certain words when they did not..

Nodin · 25-09-2009 2:25pm

jimmmy wrote: »

Could you please attempt to at least answer some of the questions you were asked Nodin ....why always evade them ?..

You're not very good at this Jimmy, are you? You're the one who made various statements. Trying to put the onus on me to cover your own lack of an answer is hardly going to work when the previous content of the thread is there to be read.

Now - Explain to us how the housing bubble, the local occurrence of the worldwide phenomena of excessive credit, and Banks overinvesting in the property market are related to trade unionism and the public service, given your contention that "yes, trade unionism has ruined the country."

If you don't understand the question, please say so and I'll spell it out for you differently.

O, and by the way?

Jimmy wrote:

The head of the Bank of England gets € 283,564 per year

Since when has Britain adopted the Euro Jimmy?

jimmmy wrote: »

N.B (..............)not..

I've explained what I did Jimmy. Add it to your list of "Things I don't Understand", or report the post. Either way, stop using it to evade questions and/or change the subject.

murphaph · 25-09-2009 2:43pm

Nodin wrote: »

Now - Explain to us how the housing bubble, the local occurrence of the worldwide phenomena of excessive credit, and Banks overinvesting in the property market are related to trade unionism and the public service, given your contention that "yes, trade unionism has ruined the country."

Trade unionism (irish style) has certainly help ruin the economy and has done very little for any workers outside the civil service, public sector and semi-state sector. Remember the DART fiasco when the drivers wanted more money for driving trains that were 33% longer, and their unions supported their stupid (greedy) claim? That's the sort of BS that makes people in the private sector HATE irish unions!

Nodin wrote: »

Since when has Britain adopted the Euro Jimmy?

News flash: You can change sterling figures into Euro and vice versa.

Teacherman · 25-09-2009 5:33pm

irish_bob wrote: »

well you being a teacher , most certainly benefited , you are paid more than 25% what you would be paid in the uk , 55% more than what you would get in finland , both those countries are richer than ireland

Irish salaries as a whole are higher. Get over the huge chip on your shoulder about teachers. As for your figures-they have no sources and are exaggerated. The English education System is in constant disarray and if you knew anything about International Education Systems (bar probably one article you read) you would know teachers in the UK are leaving in droves. Key in Teachers leaving profession UK and read the many,many articles it throws up. God-you spend your day teaching manners and information to the masses and come home to deal with more ignorance.

Kids have their age as an excuse-what's yours??!

Teacherman · 25-09-2009 5:37pm

murphaph wrote: »

I'm not a grammar Nazi and almost never make any reference to someone's spelling/grammar etc. because I know my own can be flawed, but coming from a teacher that is truly appaling! I hope you're not a primary or english teacher!

Any chance you could learn to spell then? As for Pedant, that was corrected. I said stop being pedantic. I would not elevate you to pedant. Anyway-I know you have no life, so you can spend hours pouring over posts for errors but most of us dash off comments and sometimes make mistakes-like the one your mother made! Now-before you tie your knickers in a twist-have a sense of humour!:rolleyes:

murphaph · 25-09-2009 5:45pm

Teacherman wrote: »

Any chance you could learn to spell then? As for Pedant, that was corrected. I said stop being pedantic. I would not elevate you to pedant. Anyway-I know you have no life so you can spend hours pouring over posts for errors but most of us dash off comments and sometimes make mistakes-like the one your mother made! Now-before you tie your knickers in a twist-have a sense of humour!:rolleyes:

You're the one trawling boards for my other posts mate, otherwise how would you know about my mother's mistake? You don't capitalise nouns in the english language btw (maybe you're a german teacher?? lol!)

I am not charged with teaching kids, so it's no big problem for me to make the odd mistake. Your post was riddled with errors however and your private message was most unbecoming (and NOT repeatable here) too. I'd be pretty peeved if you were teaching my kids that sort of foul language

Teacherman · 25-09-2009 5:49pm

murphaph wrote: »

You're the one trawling boards for my other posts mate, otherwise how would you know about my mother's mistake? You don't capitalise nouns in the english language btw (maybe you're a german teacher?? lol!)

I am not charged with teaching kids, so it's no big problem for me to make the odd mistake. Your post was riddled with errors however and your private message was most unbecoming (and NOT repeatable here) too. I'd be pretty peeved if you were teaching my kids that sort of foul language

Whatever!! I'm sure your kids have enough burdens without me-they have you. LOL Riddled??-now thats an example of hyperbole if ever I saw one! Anyway-look up UK GOLD. You might develop a sense of humour and Im sorry for the experience of school that warped you into such a fuss pot. Its internet posting/texting not a formal composition! Its the English language!

dizzywizlw · 25-09-2009 5:51pm

I used to work in the public sector and to be perfectly honest we had 8 people doing the work of 3 people, we got a total of 2 hours break per 8 hours work day and the lowest wage (apart from mine) was 25 euro per hour.

Aside from the overly generous pay and conditions I found that the system within the job (i.e. filing etc.) was more 1987 than 2007. Sending fiels by post between offices without copies, some were at least 2 foot thick held on by bungie cords, the office did not even have the internet let alone e-mail.

I think Impact and its members should be glad that they have jobs and stop being so greedy.

Teacherman · 25-09-2009 5:53pm

murphaph wrote: »

You're the one trawling boards for my other posts mate, otherwise how would you know about my mother's mistake? You don't capitalise nouns in the english language btw (maybe you're a german teacher?? lol!)

I am not charged with teaching kids, so it's no big problem for me to make the odd mistake. Your post was riddled with errors however and your private message was most unbecoming (and NOT repeatable here) too. I'd be pretty peeved if you were teaching my kids that sort of foul language

Its not a big problem not "no big problem" Got to go-its been pointless as I thought this was a quick fire debate and not test your grammar!

Naz_st · 25-09-2009 5:58pm

Teacherman wrote: »

As for your figures-they have no sources and are exaggerated.

There's was a comparison of teacher payscales in the Eurozone done a while back in a blog post by Ronan Lyons here.

Main points from it were:

"In Ireland, a teacher in the job 15 years, single with no kids, earns more after tax than his or her counterparts do BEFORE they’ve been taxed in most other eurozone members"

"In Finland, prices are just 2% below Irish prices, but an Irish teacher enjoys a wage that is 54% higher than a Finnish counterpart"

"Teachers – particularly secondary school teachers – work less days on average than almost all their eurozone counterparts."

Teacherman · 25-09-2009 6:04pm

Naz_st wrote: »

There's was a comparison of teacher payscales in the Eurozone done a while back in a blog post by Ronan Lyons here.

Main points from it were:

"In Ireland, a teacher in the job 15 years, single with no kids, earns more after tax than his or her counterparts do BEFORE they’ve been taxed in most other eurozone members"

"In Finland, prices are just 2% below Irish prices, but an Irish teacher enjoys a wage that is 54% higher than a Finnish counterpart"

"Teachers – particularly secondary school teachers – work less days on average than almost all their eurozone counterparts."

That study does not take into account hours worked. Do you know how many hours a year we work compared to the Finns? I dont. I came across it in another thread because it makes a difference. The hourly rate. We might do less hours but our rates are smaller so if we did more hours it would bridge difference. Something like that. I have no prob with longer school, year-parents cant discipline their own kids so I have no prob doing it for them!

Leave it with me. Anyway-in all fairness they have a much better health service and standard of living than we do. I have to pay VHI to for very obvious reasons.

jimmmy · 25-09-2009 6:09pm

Teacherman wrote: »

I would not elevate you to pedant. Anyway-I know you have no life, so you can spend hours pouring over posts for errors but most of us dash off comments and sometimes make mistakes-like the one your mother made!

If Teacherman really is a teacher, I hope he never teaches my kids. Its bad enough to be contributing in some small part towards his excessive wages.

murphaph · 25-09-2009 6:17pm

Teacherman wrote: »

Whatever!! I'm sure your kids have enough burdens without me-they have you. LOL Riddled??-now thats an example of hyperbole if ever I saw one! Anyway-look up UK GOLD. You might develop a sense of humour and Im sorry for the experience of school that warped you into such a fuss pot. Its internet posting/texting not a formal composition! Its the English language!

It's. it's. it's. Back to school for you. My sense of humour evaporated when I realised I was paying tax for this sort of education system

Teacherman · 25-09-2009 6:23pm

Anyway,ignoring the Pedants/Humourless-I will get back to you all about Teacher pay comparatives. That Paul Lyons survey was centred around pay per day rather than pay per hour. Get back to you on it.

Impact rules out public sector pay cuts

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