Impact rules out public sector pay cuts

Nodin

murphaph wrote: »

That's the sort of BS that makes people in the private sector HATE irish unions! .

I'm in the private sector. I don't "HATE" Irish unions.

murphaph wrote: »

News flash: You can change sterling figures into Euro and vice versa.

Then you might ask him why he didn't quote the Euro figure, because as it is, he just put the sterling figure there with a Euro sign in front of it. Some would say that was trying to make the gap between wages look even bigger...........

murphaph

Make sure you take account of the mega long summer holidays for Irish teachers. Work out how many hours per year are worked. Remember to account for all those "free periods" and holy days that the rest of the workforce don't get off.

Teachers are clearly overpaid, along with the bulk of the PS. The state simply can't afford it.

murphaph

Nodin wrote: »

Then you might ask him why he didn't quote the Euro figure, because as it is, he just put the sterling figure there with a Euro sign in front of it. Some would say that was trying to make the gap between wages look even bigger...........

Whatever, the fact is that the governorship of the Bank of England is a damed sight more important a job than that of the Central Bank of Ireland (who have no direct control over interest rates and who showed they are not much good at regulation either).

I don't think he needs to exaggerate anything to show that the Irish public sector is in general bloated, inefficient and overpaid.

Nodin

murphaph wrote: »

Whatever, (.....)overpaid.

Then again one must ask why he's doing it.

jimmmy

Nodin wrote: »

Then again one must ask why he's doing it.

Because I am a citizen, a taxpayer and have an interest in the financial well being of the country. I do not personally know any of the heads of the Central Bank worldwide. Maybe you Nodin can justify the pay and behaviour of our Central bank, financial regulator + Taoiseach ; I personally think they have a lot to answer for.

I will repeat a post I made earlier

"The role of the Central Bank is simple. The Central Bank is responsible for the management of the financial system...and should ensure the banks operate sensibly, and do not create inflation or property bubbles. Why did it stand idly by and let it happen ? Its not that the people in Dame Street, Dublin are not well paid. John Hurley, the retiring head of the Irish Central Bank, is the highest paid central banker in the world, getting € 368,703 per year. The head of the Bank of England gets € 283,564 per year, the head of the European Central bank gets € 345,252 per year and the head of the US federal reserve Bank gets € 186,600. Why no word of apology from our Central Bank, why are the people there still paid as much as ever, and those retiring get their usual fat cat government pensions....which will have to be repaid with interest by our children and grandchildren ?"

dresden8

jimmmy wrote: »

I do not personally know any of the heads of the Central Bank worldwide.

That makes a change jimmmy.

I suppose this means you won't be telling us a story about how you were talking to two heads of central banks, one in Ireland and one in GB and how much better off the Irish one was.

That ban changed you man.

I miss the old jimmmy.

jimmmy

dresden8 wrote: »

That makes a change jimmmy.

Smart, and no need to be personal.

dresden8 wrote: »

I suppose this means you won't be telling us a story about how you were talking to two heads of central banks, one in Ireland and one in GB and how much better off the Irish one was.

Statistics on the pay of the several heads of Central banks are in the public domain and are easily compared. You obviously do not like to see comparisons made between workers salaries in the p.s. in Ireland with what their counterparts make in other European countries ( or across the border for example.) Wonder why that is ?:D

badlyparkedmerc

Perhaps an interesting article in the Times today - arguments will continue as both sides are intransigent but for what it's worth.

Work time for teachers 'one of lowest in OECD'

SECOND-LEVEL teachers in Ireland spend much less time in their schools than their counterparts in virtually every other OECD state, according to a confidential Department of Education memorandum

gerry28

I've had a good think over the last few days about paycuts in the public service. I've decided that i am not willing to take a cut - a pay freeze for a few years OK. But not a pay cut.

We are giving money to the banks to bail them out, yet the bank of ireland staff got a pay rise a few months ago. Take 5 or 10% of their wages and put it in the NAMA purse, before coming looking for us to take cuts.

Things are about to get really tough for ordinary mortgage holders in the coming months/years with rising interest rates. I'm not going to hold my hand up and say - yeah cut my wages some Mr Lenihan - only to find I cant meet my mortgage payments a year down the line.

jimmmy

gerry28 wrote: »

I've had a good think over the last few days about paycuts in the public service. I've decided that i am not willing to take a cut - a pay freeze for a few years OK. But not a pay cut.

You can take one...it does not matter if you are "willing" or not. The country cannot afford you any more.

murphaph

badlyparkedmerc wrote: »

Perhaps an interesting article in the Times today - arguments will continue as both sides are intransigent but for what it's worth.

Work time for teachers 'one of lowest in OECD'

Expect a heap of excuses from a certain teacher man!

Good find. The public need to know just how little they get for their money especially from the Departments of Health Education seeing as they are the 2 hungriest.

The HSE I think is well known about. The secondary school system (and third level two I would imagine) less so. Seems primary teachers are close enough to the OECD average, just get paid too much.

NewDubliner

jimmmy wrote: »

You can take one...it does not matter if you are "willing" or not. The country cannot afford you any more.

Nor can we afford to prop up badly-run private sector banks or shore up under-performing property investments.

If you want the market to rule public-sector jobs, why not also have it rule the banks and property market?

gerry28

You can take one...it does not matter if you are "willing" or not.

We'll cross that bridge if or when it comes.

jahalpin

Where do people think that the government get the money to pay the vastly inflated wages for the public sector?

The money comes from taxes raised in the private sector through PAYE and Corporation Tax etc.. When the private sector is doing badly there is less tax collected and therefore less money is avaliable for public services etc.

If there is less money avalbiable then cuts have to be made. Some of the cuts that certain public bodies have made in an effort to save their jobs eg asking suppliers to pay a retrospecive discount of around 8% are laughable.

A lot of civil servants will have you believe that they are doing the job for the good of the country and, if this is the case they should be willing to actually work for less than private sector workers rather that the 25% extra that they currently recieve.

As for the people that say that the lower grades are badly paid, a lot of private sector workers doing similar non-skilled administration work are paid minimum wage which is a lot less than the 22k a year that clerical officers start at.

This country is in a very dangerous financial state and is almost bankrupt, it's time the civil SERVICE unions realised this and actually realised that serious cuts must be made to the civil service wage bill

jahalpin

gerry28 wrote: »

I've had a good think over the last few days about paycuts in the public service. I've decided that i am not willing to take a cut - a pay freeze for a few years OK. But not a pay cut.

We are giving money to the banks to bail them out, yet the bank of ireland staff got a pay rise a few months ago. Take 5 or 10% of their wages and put it in the NAMA purse, before coming looking for us to take cuts.

Things are about to get really tough for ordinary mortgage holders in the coming months/years with rising interest rates. I'm not going to hold my hand up and say - yeah cut my wages some Mr Lenihan - only to find I cant meet my mortgage payments a year down the line.

If your mortgage payments are so high that an increase in interest would have that much of an effect on you then you are as guilty as the banks in that you have obviously borrowed more than you can actually afford to.

I think you'll find that the staff in Bank of Ireland that got the pay rise were on a lot less than the average civil servant and your idea is actuallly pretty laughable.

In the company I work in, our pensions have been reduced, the amount of work has been increased and there are talks of pay cuts.

One of the major problems with the civil service is that the staff are so inflexible that they will not accept any change to the work that they do, even stupid things like the time of their breaks and the introduction of new procedures.

gerry28

In the company I work in, our pensions have been reduced, the amount of work has been increased and there are talks of pay cuts.

So no actual paycuts??? just talk of them and you want me to take one?

My work load has been increased too because of temporary staff being let go and my pension contributions have also increased.

NewDubliner

jahalpin wrote: »

One of the major problems with the civil service is that the staff are so inflexible that they will not accept any change to the work that they do, even stupid things like the time of their breaks and the introduction of new procedures.

Link please?

jimmmy

NewDubliner wrote: »

Nor can we afford to prop up badly-run private sector banks or shore up under-performing property investments.

Why did the central bank / financial regulator / government stand idly by and let ( if not encourage, through extending the section 23 / section 27 and section 50 tax deadlines ) the property market bubble so ?

No property investor will receive nama money or nama property, so to claim we " shore up under-performing property investments " is misleadling.

jimmmy

jahalpin wrote: »

One of the major problems with the civil service is that the staff are so inflexible that they will not accept any change to the work that they do, even stupid things like the time of their breaks and the introduction of new procedures.

not to mention some ( not all ) still getting paid for half an hour to cash their pay cheques, even though they are now paid by direct debit !;)

NewDubliner

jimmmy wrote: »

Why did the central bank / financial regulator / government stand idly by and let ( if not encourage, through extending the section 23 / section 27 and section 50 tax deadlines ) the property market bubble so ?

Did he have the power to over-rule the government?

More to the point, what salary cuts do you propose for the public servants who will be tasked with running NAMA?

Nodin

jimmmy wrote: »

Because I am a citizen, a taxpayer and have an interest in the financial well being of the country. I do not personally know any of the heads of the Central Bank worldwide. Maybe you Nodin can justify the pay and behaviour of our Central bank, financial regulator + Taoiseach ; I personally think they have a lot to answer for.

Thats why you put a Euro sign in front of a Sterling amount?

jimmmy wrote: »

I will repeat a post I made earlier

"The role of (........)and grandchildren ?"

Because having nothing new to say, you prefer to spam your own posts. Yes, we know.

You still haven't answered the questions put to you here.....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62242641&postcount=110

NewDubliner

jimmmy wrote: »

No property investor will receive nama money or nama property, so to claim we " shore up under-performing property investments " is misleadling.

You don't understand what NAMA is about.

It's designed to prevent a a drop in property prices that would come about if the banks foreclosed on under-performing or under-secured loans and the market was flooded with property. It's designed to save the banks from making losses on having to settle for less than was borrowed. It's designed to protect the investments of property developers.

In other words, it's a mechanism to interfere with the normal course of the market.

To do this the government has to borrow huge amounts of money and divert large chunks of tax revenue to service the debts.

SerialComplaint

badlyparkedmerc wrote: »

Perhaps an interesting article in the Times today - arguments will continue as both sides are intransigent but for what it's worth.

Work time for teachers 'one of lowest in OECD'

Just a tad selective in your quoting there, merc driver. I'm wondering why you didn't quote this bit of the IT article;

The working time required of primary teachers in Ireland (1,036 hours) is also close to the OECD average (1,185).

The department points out that the actual teaching time of Irish teachers (ie the time spent in class) is relatively high by international standards.

The net teaching time at both primary (915 hours) and second level (735 hours) is actually above the OECD average.

murphaph

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Just a tad selective in your quoting there, merc driver. I'm wondering why you didn't quote this bit of the IT article;

It just says that Irish primary teachers work 'acceptable' hours. It doesn't compare their pay scales with other OECD states though.

ardmacha

There are plenty of comparision of class size, which is a measure of "productivity", this was the second largest in Europe and is probably now the largest.

Relative to GDP, Irish primary school teacher pay was below the OECD average in 2006 and was absolutely lower than places like Germany.

murphaph

But Germany can afford to pay its teachers. Ireland is going broke (20 BILLION a year short!).

ardmacha

murphaph wrote: »

But Germany can afford to pay its teachers. Ireland is going broke (20 BILLION a year short!).

Perhaps we need a German style tax system then.

efb

ardmacha wrote: »

Perhaps we need a German style tax system then.

Or a German work ethic???

irish_bob

or german wages

consultants in germany are paid half of what they recieve here , teachers , guards and nurses earn considerably less aswell despite paying higher taxes

Dozen Wicked Words

irish_bob wrote: »

or german wages

consultants in germany are paid half of what they recieve here , teachers , guards and nurses earn considerably less aswell despite paying higher taxes

Bob, for a bit of disclosure, I don't tend to agree with most of your posts, however, I am fairly sure you are right that Nurses here are paid more, but for my own interest I am trying to find some figures. I would be genuinely grateful if you could give me a few links for Nurses wages for other European countries. Cheers.