Benitez not happy with Fergie

Headshot

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

I'm not so sure if this has been posted yet but just to cheer things up a little around here I figured I might as well post it...



Should have a little less hair though!

the amount of times of seen that and its still funney

did someone mention pressure

SlickRic

only1stevo wrote: »

instead of clowning around and messing with the master of mindgames.

hilarious

how anyone buys into this 'master of mindgames' cr*p is beyond me. do you call the guy in work who talks through his behind, but manages to get you frustrated enough to say something to him a genius just because he got the reaction?

he's a moan. benitez possibly shudnt hav said anything until the end of the season, or just said it behind closed doors. but he didn't. its doesn't mean fergie is a master of mind games. because there is no such thing.

it simply means he's had an outstanding team to win things through the years. he's a master coach, manager and developer of football talent. the psychological stuff had little or nothing to do with it. no matter what the newspapers tell you :rolleyes:

SlickRic

herbieflowers wrote: »

you sound surprised, Benitez has been messing about with player selection for quite some time!

again, this is media peddled nonsense

the stats have been brought to this thread before. he rotates the same as the other top managers (bar MON). its just the quality he has had to rotate with has not been up to standard in the past

cournioni

SlickRic wrote: »

hilarious

how anyone buys into this 'master of mindgames' cr*p is beyond me. do you call the guy in work who talks through his behind, but manages to get you frustrated enough to say something to him a genius just because he got the reaction?

he's a moan. benitez possibly shudnt hav said anything until the end of the season, or behind closed doors. but he didn't. its doesn't mean fergie is a master of mind games.

it simply means he's had an outstanding team to win things through the years. he's a master coach, manager and developer of football talent. the psychological stuff had little or nothing to do with it. no matter what the newspapers tell you :rolleyes:

It shows that SAF is getting to Benitez, when Benitez broadcasts this to the world he is showing that cracks are developing and that the pressure is on him.

Fear is the one thing a manager can not show anyone, especially his own players and opposition players.

jesus_thats_gre

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

It shows that SAF is getting to Benitez, when Benitez broadcasts this to the world he is showing that cracks are developing and that the pressure is on him.

Fear is the one thing a manager can not show anyone, especially his own players and opposition players.

Would you agree that AF singling Liverpool out for attention last week suggests that he must be worried about Liverpool? I would argue that in order to declare publicly that Liverpool will crack under the pressure, that he must also be feeling the pressure and is concerned that Rafa could be the one that prevents him achieving his ambition of knocking Liverpool "off their pirch".

Liverpool fans, probably the players too, didn't actually see themselves as title contenders at the start of the season. Up to last week, we still didn't believe that we would win it. AF being worried enough about us to start his mind games decidedly earlier than normal may actually give Liverpool fans and the clubs players that extra bit of self belief that is needed to sustain a genuine challenge..

Thanks Alex...

Jazzy

jesus pornapster, bit late to the party. boggles and ntlbell have already harvested this thread. not about on the weekend no?


hang on, wat are we argueing about here.
oh right, something about FSW meaning Fat Spanish Waiter and that is apparently benitez.
i see all the usual genius' are about and saying that rafa is cracking under pressure. i suppose telling them they are wrong is out the window, they'll just hide behind opinions.... wat to do? ah i dunno, idiots generally have little baring on what actually happens anyway

SlickRic

it does not show he's cracking under pressure, that's what the media will tell you to sell a story.

it simply showed that ferguson's bitchin' annoyed him. doesn't show fragility or whatever else...simply fergie bein a moan had annoyed him.

he should have left it, if only to save us from the 'mind games' talk....

cournioni

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Would you agree that AF singling Liverpool out for attention last week suggests that he must be worried about Liverpool? I would argue that in order to declare publicly that Liverpool will crack under the pressure, that he must also be feeling the pressure and is concerned that Rafa could be the one that prevents him achieving his ambition of knocking Liverpool "off their pirch".

Liverpool fans, probably the players too, didn't actually see themselves as title contenders at the start of the season. Up to last week, we still didn't believe that we would win it. AF being worried enough about us to start his mind games decidedly earlier than normal may actually give Liverpool fans and the clubs players that extra bit of self belief that is needed to sustain a genuine challenge..

Thanks Alex...

Not particularly, SAF has always done it when teams have had the upper hand on United. He is known for it, where as Benitez is known for preferring to talk about Liverpool and Liverpool alone. Ferguson has a proven track record in winding other managers up. Benitez for as far as I can remember tries to avoid it. Instead he got very personal which looks to me that he took the bait.

Maybe SAF saw that Stoke could potentially take something from the Liverpool game seeing as they gave United such a tough time on St Stephens day, and decided to put the boot in then... Which could explain his timing.

To be frank about it, I have never seen SAF worried once this season, and last Friday was the first time I've ever seen Benitez worried. You could see it in his eyes, hear it in his voice and his general demeanor. That is what I believe and alot of other non Liverpool fans believed after seeing Benitez's press conference.

SlickRic

you could easily claim that Ferguson winding everyone up with his 'fixture congestion', 'everyone's against us' talk is a sgn he is worried that this race will be closer than ever.

so its all speculation in the end

imo benitez did not look the least bit 'worried'. he was simply annoyed. it was a clinical press conference. even his reactions afterwards in interviews after stoke suggested calmness rather than worry

and benitez has a track record of saying it as he sees it. look at his drogba talk last season. it backfired when drogba killed us; and in the same way it might backfire again with ferguson becoming more motivated than ever.

thats the only worry tho. its not ferguson being a genius, its benitez just saying it as he sees it imo

cournioni

SlickRic wrote: »

it does not show he's cracking under pressure, that's what the media will tell you to sell a story.

it simply showed that ferguson's bitchin' annoyed him. doesn't show fragility or whatever else...simply fergie bein a moan had annoyed him.

he should have left it, if only to save us from the 'mind games' talk....

If that is what you believe then so be it. All I can tell you is my opinion on the matter, I'm not trying to sway your opinion because I know I can't possibly do that with you or any other Liverpool fan.

We have seen managers crack like this before, prime example being Keegan in 96. We saw it last season with Wenger doing his John Cleese impersonations. We saw the effect that instability like this can cause at a club, even United suffered when Ferguson said he was going to retire...

Fergusons bitching as you call it, may have annoyed Benitez, but why did he rise to the bait. He could and should have just sat back and said it has nothing to do with me. But instead he did the opposite, he must have stayed up all night googling all of SAF's quotes and misdemeanor's. He should have had a nice little rest so he could give training his fullest attention but he didn't. I as a United fan am laughing as a result.

Jazzy

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

AF

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

SAF

hahahahaha


yeah man, it was in his eyes. ive seen them eyes before, back in nam'. and that voice... its like hes talking to the void.


or



he could just be out of hospital. check the fhacts genius.


ah sure, feck it. draw ur own conclusions. ull be happier that way.. who gives a toss about being accurate as long as u feel better

cournioni

Jazzy wrote: »

hahahahaha


yeah man, it was in his eyes. ive seen them eyes before, back in nam'. and that voice... its like hes talking to the void.


or



he could just be out of hospital. check the fhacts genius.


ah sure, feck it. draw ur own conclusions. ull be happier that way.. who gives a toss about being accurate as long as u feel better

Like I said, I am happy that Benitez took his time to worry about what Ferguson has to say rather than talk about his own team.

Whether you or I believe he has cracked is irrelevant as they are only our opinions.

jesus_thats_gre

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Not particularly, SAF has always done it when teams have had the upper hand on United. He is known for it, where as Benitez is known for preferring to talk about Liverpool and Liverpool alone. Ferguson has a proven track record in winding other managers up. Benitez for as far as I can remember tries to avoid it. Instead he got very personal which looks to me that he took the bait..

AF has establised a track record of doing it over 20 odd years. Initially, it was probably misrepresented as him cracking under the pressure too.. It is too easy to look back and say that AF mindgames worked and use the 10 PL titles as proof of this. This is effectively what United supporters are doing and it is as simplistic as you can get. Maybe Rafa has made a conscious decision to start playing the same game - hopefully we can look back at 20 years of examples at the some stage for conclusive proof.

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Maybe SAF saw that Stoke could potentially take something from the Liverpool game seeing as they gave United such a tough time on St Stephens day, and decided to put the boot in then... Which could explain his timing..

You could say that and in hindsight, it is easy to argue that as the results worked in your arguments favour. It doesn't mean it is remotely true however.

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

To be frank about it, I have never seen SAF worried once this season, and last Friday was the first time I've ever seen Benitez worried. You could see it in his eyes, hear it in his voice and his general demeanor. That is what I believe and alot of other non Liverpool fans believed after seeing Benitez's press conference.

I didn't see in his eyes what you did but I would be inclined to put it down to the two operation he has recently undergone - he is going in for his third tomorrow. These things tend to have an effect on the body..

I am sure you will happily continue to believe that AF comments had a more profound effect on him though.

As for hearing it in his voice. While his English is ok, when he speaks for remotely extended periods, he generally always sounds uncomfortable. The fact that English isn't his native tongue and he can't even pronouce the word "facts", I wouldn't read too much into what you think you could hear in his voice.



The fact remains that Rafa met with the senior members of his squad before doing this to tell them what was going to happen - they supported him if that makes any difference. The following day, retired referees came out and commended Rafa for what he had said and basically stated that it was everyone has been thinking for 10 years but were too afraid to say anything. Rafa slated AF but kept it completely about football.. The whole thing was carefully orchestrated..

AF's response was to insult him by basically resorting to name calling. I personally reckon that this is a more significant sign of weakness.

Claiming that AF has won this battle based on the weekends scores is overly simplistic. You won't have a clue as to who came out on top until the end of the season. Even then, if United do win by a few points, can you really attribute it to anything AF or Rafa said?

The Keegan rant can easily be attributed to the Toon's downfall they had a significant lead beforehand and ultimately lost the league shortly after.. This is absolutely, not even in the slightest, nothing like that and anyone who really does think it is, should be embarrassed for themselves.

Jazzy

just as im liking the way Utd fans have completely over reacted and have proved multiple times that they want this to be some sort of pressure cooking rant. it proves that not only is fergie a tad worried about liverpool (something he hasnt been used to in the last 18 years or so) but also that the fans are worried.
if utd win the league then its business as usual... if liverpool win though it will rubbish pretty much anything any utd fan has said about rafa and undermine their knowledge of the game. who has more to lose?

personally, i think that Utd will win the league. Liverpool seem to be putting in a good effort but they dont have the squad utd do. if we do win, i think luck will play a big part

evil_seed

This "mind-games" nonsense is a load of old horse ****. Benitez came out and said what he said as facts. But the main reason behind it is pure genius, It's all to detract attention away from Stevie and his court case. Remember when Chelsea, under Mourinho, were going through a bad spell or were coming up to a high pressuere game. He would ALWAYS stir up some **** about something and the press would grab it and run, thus detracting all the attention away from any player/up coming games. Bentiez has done the exact same thing here with regards to Stevie and his upcoming court case. That is all, plain and simple

Mr Alan

Good article.

YOU have to go back more than 20 years to the last time a Liverpool manager verbally took on Alex Ferguson.

On that occasion, back in April 1988, Kenny Dalglish famously held aloft his baby daughter Lauren and informed members of Her Majesty's press that they would get more sense out of her than the United boss, who was ranting and raving about decisions not going his way at Anfield.

The put down worked. Fergie was stopped in his tracks, Dalglish had shown his ability to get the better of an adversary with a single line and, most importantly, Liverpool finished the season as champions.

Rafa Benitez is an altogether different animal to his Anfield predecessor. Without the language skills or the cutting humour honed on decades of banter in British football's dressing rooms, the Spaniard is only marginally more likely to come out with a telling quip than he is to exchange pleasantries with Jose Mourinho.

But, like Dalglish, he is a fighter and if he feels that putting himself on the line is the best thing for his club that is exactly what he will do.

So, although the timing of Benitez's outburst against Ferguson and his empire may well have been surprising, the fact that he did it was not.

This is a manager, don't forget, who a little over a year ago detonated a bomb under Liverpool's boardroom when he used a press conference to reveal just how bad his relationship had become with owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

This time the setting was exactly the same and the shockwaves from the explosion he caused were just as widespread. The only difference was that the grenade he had chucked landed at Old Trafford, not Anfield.

In the immediate aftermath even seasoned Liverpool observers struggled with what to make of Benitez's sensational eruption.

Was this a manager feeling the pressure? Had he taken Ferguson's bait and put his team and himself at the mercy of United, the reigning champions of England and Europe, let's not forget.

Or was it a moment of inspiration from a street fighter who was prepared to take the battle to Liverpool's great rivals after establishing a position of strength at the top of the Premier League table?

The debate will rage and the final answer will not be known until the season has ended and the final ordering of the league table either makes Benitez look a genius or a fool.

But one thing even his biggest critics have not accused the Liverpool boss of being is wrong. For decades some of English football's leading figures have tip-toed around the elephant in the room that is Fergie's bullying of officialdom.

Finally, someone has had the bottle to call it for what it is and the catalogue of facts that Benitez produced in an attempt to prove his point could have been a whole lot longer had it not dated back only to incidents over the last 12 months.

Benitez has never been afraid to take on the established order and the best example of his refusal to bow down to perceived sacred cows came during his last season in charge of Valencia.

After seeing his team concede a 93rd minute equaliser from the penalty spot against Real Madrid after the fourth official had indicated just a single minute of stoppage time, he launched into a tirade aimed at highlighting the degree of power Spain's regal team held over the rest of La Liga.

"For some people we are too strong a rival and it would obviously be wrong for us to win the league," he said.

"I saw the fourth official's board clearly. Without the extra minutes they would not have blown for a penalty.

"In any 100 other matches, they wouldn't have awarded that penalty. At the Bernabeu, you have to win twice just to get half a result."

Benitez is no novice when it comes to mind games and Kevin Keegan is clearly not the reference point that certain people would have us believe that he is.

For, whereas Keegan blew up in an emotional, spur of the moment reaction, Benitez's outburst was calculated, detailed, measured and had been prepared for some time before the outburst – hence the page full of notes he pulled from his pocket at the outset.

Furthermore, Keegan's eruption came as it became increasingly apparent that his Newcastle team was cracking under the pressure and was about to succumb to United.

Benitez's came with his team on top of the league and at a time when it was finally beginning to be seen as genuine title challengers. It was as if the Reds boss had been emboldened by Liverpool's form and decided to strike while the iron was hot.

There is no doubt, though, that Benitez has reacted to Ferguson's jibes and that is what the Glaswegian is looking for every time he declares psychological warfare.

Like the pub bully who keeps poking you in the chest looking for a reaction, the best answer is usually to refuse to give him what he wants and instead to turn the other cheek.

But sometimes you have to stand up to such antagonism, fight fire with fire, and put the aggressor in his place or face a lifetime of subjugation.

This is the path Benitez has chosen and it should be remembered that the last time he went to the mattresses after taking on a seemingly unbreakable opponent it was the softly spoken Spaniard who inflicted most damage on his adversary.

On that occasion it was Mourinho himself, another apparent master of the dark arts, who yielded as the infinitely superior Chelsea side he had put together with Roman Abramovich's millions was twice dumped out of the Champions League at the semi-final stage by Benitez's Liverpool.

It was only when the special one was removed from the equation that Chelsea were able to find their way past Liverpool in Europe's biggest and most prestigious cup competition.

Benitez is no novice. He knew what he was doing when he launched into a tirade against Ferguson.

The only thing that has surprised him is just how big an impact it has made, with the Reds boss of the belief that the seismic shock it caused stems from the fact that most people in football never imagined that someone would dare put their head above the parapet and speak the truth.

Liverpool have always been the kind of club that does its talking on the pitch. But these are very different media-driven times in which advantages are sought and often gained by using television and newspapers to unsettle and unnerve opponents.

Benitez remains adamant that his verbal attack on a rival manager does not mark any departure from the much fabled Liverpool way, though. To the Spaniard, the Liverpool way is to fight, and that is exactly what he did at Friday's press conference.

The unimpressive draw with Stoke did not help his cause as it gave his critics an instant stick with which to beat him.

But Benitez knows this is a long fight and winners and losers will not be determined in the space of a single weekend.

This battle will go all the way to May and it is likely to become increasingly dirty should Liverpool and United continue to go toe to toe at the top of the Premier League.

Anyone who knows the history and rivalry of the north west's, and perhaps the world's, biggest clubs, knows full well that no quarter will be asked and none will be given, particularly not with United one league title win away from equalling Liverpool's record of 18.

This is a massive season for Benitez but it is also huge for Ferguson because he knows that if he is to fulfil his ambition of knocking Liverpool off their "f***ing perch" this is the best chance he is ever likely to get.

Title success for Liverpool would leave the United boss needing three more of his own for his life's work to be complete and having reached pensionable age two years ago he knows the sands of time are against him.

Like Dalglish, Benitez has decided to take Ferguson on. Now he must hope that like it was for his illustrious predecessor it is the precursor to championship glory in May.

eagle eye

evil_seed wrote: »

This "mind-games" nonsense is a load of old horse ****. Benitez came out and said what he said as facts. But the main reason behind it is pure genius, It's all to detract attention away from Stevie and his court case. Remember when Chelsea, under Mourinho, were going through a bad spell or were coming up to a high pressuere game. He would ALWAYS stir up some **** about something and the press would grab it and run, thus detracting all the attention away from any player/up coming games. Bentiez has done the exact same thing here with regards to Stevie and his upcoming court case. That is all, plain and simple

That souds very plausible indeed.

Mourinho was the king of it. I loved it when he started that, such an intelligent man, I really miss him being in the PL.

ciaran76

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/liverpool/4237781/Liverpool-striker-Fernando-Torres-disagrees-with-Rafael-Benitezs-attack-on-Man-United.html


Liverpool striker Fernando Torres disagrees with Rafael Benitez's attack on Man United !!


Just read this and thought I would add it to the thread. Think the paper is trying to make more of what he said then what he meant to be honest.

Draupnir

Mr Alan wrote: »

Good article.

Good in the sense that it fits your agenda I assume? It is basically pro Liverpool rubbish.

How is this thread still open? Managers in war of words shocker.

Mitch Connor

David Gills response:

David Gill wrote:

"I was elected over the summer by the Premier League clubs. I'm very clear in my role," he told reporters.

"I think it is totally incorrect to assert that," Gill added, referring to the conflict-of-interest accusation.

"It's not how I work. I do not think I would have been elected for the last two years if that was the case... He missed the boat completely."

Mr Alan

Draupnir wrote: »

Good in the sense that it fits your agenda I assume? It is basically pro Liverpool rubbish.

its written by a Liverpool fan, in a Liverpool paper....of course its pro liverpool.

but i think people are missing the point, Rafa didnt say wat he said for some dickhead sitting on his couch in Wigan, or some arsehole cockney reading the telegraph, or for some Utd fan over here in Ireland....he said it for Liverpool FC & its fans.

everything he does is for them, so in reality, its absolutely irrelevant wat anyone else thinks....if Liverpool are happy he said it, which they are, then thats all that matters.

thats my last post in this steaming cesspit of ****e of a thread.

monkey9

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Hey mayord, its just a bit of fun. No need to be so uptight just because your manager is feeling the pressure from United breathing down their necks on their way to a third consecutive title. You're doing ok, you haven't ****ed your entire season up before christmas this time.

Oh but you're wrong, don't you see!!! Sure it's Taggart who's losing the plot and cracking up under the pressure of chasing Liverpool who are top of the league. Sure last week he came out with mad statements about the authorities fixing the league fixtures so that Utd won't win a thing. Then he got all by paranoid by stating that he'd be sending Utd officials to the fixture list meeting to make sure that Utd aren't f*cked over again.
Rafa basically told him to shut the f*ck up!!

monkey9

Mitch Connor wrote: »

David Gills response:

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Gill
"I was elected over the summer by the Premier League clubs. I'm very clear in my role," he told reporters.

"I think it is totally incorrect to assert that," Gill added, referring to the conflict-of-interest accusation.

"It's not how I work. I do not think I would have been elected for the last two years if that was the case... He missed the boat completely."




David Gill responding to Rafa's quotes. Yessss!!!!! Rafa is really getting under the skin of that club. What mind games we play!!!!

monkey9

monkey9 wrote: »

David Gill responding to Rafa's quotes. Yessss!!!!! Rafa is really getting under the skin of that club. What mind games we play!!!!

Tbh when you're in a high profile role like that and someone makes brainless claims, then you are pretty much obligated to respond. This is nothing to do with mind games or football. Gill has nothing to do with what happens on the pitch.

IMO Rafa should be strongly punished for what he said. it's one thing to say that you feel a team will buckle under pressure. It's one thing again to state your "fhacts". It's another thing altogether to question the integrity of a man who was elected to his role by his colleagues and has never used his position unethically. Bang out of order tbh.

monkey9

Deleted User wrote: »

Tbh when you're in a high profile role like that and someone makes brainless claims, then you are pretty much obligated to respond. This is nothing to do with mind games or football. Gill has nothing to do with what happens on the pitch.

IMO Rafa should be strongly punished for what he said. it's one thing to say that you feel a team will buckle under pressure. It's one thing again to state your "fhacts". It's another thing altogether to question the integrity of a man who was elected to his role by his colleagues and has never used his position unethically. Bang out of order tbh.

It's all right when Taggart sh!tes on though, is it??

monkey9

monkey9 wrote: »

It's all right when Taggart sh!tes on though, is it??

When did he question Rafas integrity or imply that he'd abuse his position?

monkey9

Deleted User wrote: »

When did he question Rafas integrity or imply that he'd abuse his position?

Not Rafa, Keith Hackett for example last season though. So if he want's to ****e on, so can Rafa!!

ibh

Deleted User wrote: »

When did he question Rafas integrity or imply that he'd abuse his position?

I’m pretty sure he publicly slated the integrity of the officials of the PL in charge of making the fixture lists.