Benitez not happy with Fergie

Thanx 4 The Fish

eddiehead wrote: »

The following statement has just been released to SSN on behalf of Sir Alex Ferguson..........


Seriously though, I just seen it on Sky Sports1 and thought in all fairness what he said needed to be said but saying it when he did could certainly be seen as "rising to the bait" considering Ferguson's comments earlier in the week.

My 2c

:rolleyes:

jank

In fairness fergie has been doing this stuff for years. Refs will always be careful around him. So it is a valid complaint.

Anyway its all a **** storm by sky and co.

podge018

piece on it...

Alex Ferguson? Rafa Benitez knows what he is doing...


I’ve read and heard a few commentators refer to Rafa Benitez’ comments about Sir Alex Ferguson yesterday as the Liverpool manager’s ‘Keegan moment.’ Nothing could be further from the truth.

Back in the 1995/96 season, Keegan's side looked set to finally land the title after opening up a 12-point gap at the top of the table, and the Newcastle coach famously lost control of his emotions.

Rafa Benitez is a coach who is methodical in his approach to the game, and yesterday was no different. He walked in to that press conference fully prepared for what he was about to say. He produced a sheet of paper from which he read a series of longstanding complaints about Ferguson and, in particular, his attitude to referees and gripes about the fixture list; Rafa was calm and assured in his delivery.

Some have said that Benitez should not have let Ferguson get under his skin, yet this was not a man flailing wildly at his adversary, but a man in control who had prepared the terrain upon which he was about to do battle: so typically Rafa.


So why did he do it?

Well, Sir Alex Ferguson had openly criticised the Liverpool players in midweek. With Liverpool seven points in front of third-placed United, who have two games in hand, Ferguson stated that Liverpool’s inexperience will cost them. “There's no doubt in the second half of the season they will get nervous,” said the United manager.

Sir Alex was inferring that he and his players are more experienced and mentally tougher than the Liverpool players. From Rafa’s point of view, no manager has the right to insult his player’s capabilities and he was right to come out and defend them. For the sake of the dressing room, it was important that he is seen to be standing up for his team.

Remember, this was not an instant reaction to Ferguson’s comments. Benitez had bided his time and spoken with his dressing room. He had ensured that his players were totally unfazed by what the United boss had said about them, fully assessed the situation – as he always does – and concluded that to have not reacted would have been seen as a loss of authority.



And because of that, what Benitez cannot afford to do is be seen to agree with Ferguson – as Wenger did recently over the football calendar – because the United boss will be seen as leading the agenda, as the man in control who can say what he wants - when he wants; with his contemporaries following his lead. Rather than agreeing with Ferguson, Benitez made the United coach sound like a whinger: Rafa said “Then he (Ferguson) was talking about the fixtures. Two years ago we were playing a lot of early kick-offs away on Saturdays when United were playing on Sundays. And we didn't say anything.


"Now he is complaining about everything, that everybody is against United. But the second half of the season will see them playing at home against all the teams at the top of the table, it is a fantastic advantage.


"But at Christmas, United played on the 29th and the rest of the teams played on the 28th. We were away against Newcastle two days after playing Bolton. They were playing about 40 hours later, they were not complaining then.”


And when it came down to United’s treatment of referees, Benitez was letting it be known that not only do other managers share his opinions, but that this is a matter he has been prepared to tackle head on with the FA : as he did at the meeting in Manchester which he referred to yesterday. Benitez said “You can see every single week how they put (referees) under pressure, we know this. We have seen it before. We have seen players sent off at Old Trafford and we do not see our opponents sent off. It is part of the game. But to complain and to always have an advantage is not fair.”

"We had a meeting in Manchester with managers and FA about the Respect campaign. And I was very clear, forget the campaign because Mr Ferguson was killing the referees, killing Mr Atkinson, killing Mr Hackett.”

Ferguson had not got under his skin; Rafa was sending a message to the most important people of all: his players in the dressing room, letting them know that he is there to stand up for them and will put himself in the firing line if need be. All of which leads on to the final reason why he did it.


He has deflected the attention from his players and turned it upon himself. The focus no longer on the Liverpool dressing room and Ferguson’s opinion of it; it is now all about what Rafa Benitez thinks of Alex Ferguson.


Kenny Dalglish urged Liverpool “to forget about these mind games and concentrate solely on what's going on around their own club.” But, in stepping in to the firing line, Benitez had ensured that if Liverpool slip up at Stoke in the wake of Ferguson’s comments, it will be all about Benitez and less about his players. And if they win? Well then Rafa got it spot on, and the message to Ferguson is unequivocal: 'say what you like about us, we know what we’re doing.'


I have also read that this was most out of character for Rafa Benitez. Not so.
Because, aside from this being so ‘very Rafa’ to have delivered his comments armed with his meticulously researched arguments laid out in bullet points on an A4 sheet of paper, the Liverpool coach has done this before.


Following a successful title winning season at Valencia, his players felt the full force of his wrath in a disappointing second season at the club. And when Valencia lifted the La Liga title the following year, Benítez confronted Jesus Garcia Pitarch, the club's director of sport, over control of new signings and the club's failure to reinforce the squad with the players he wanted – and Benitez told the world, in no uncertain terms, what he thought of the men in suits at the Mestalla.


In England too, Benitez has previous form. Remember when he stood up to Mourinho? After their first group match ended in another goalless draw in September 2005, the Liverpool manager said the following month: "To me, Arsenal played much better football two or three years ago. They won matches and were exciting to watch. Barcelona and Milan too. They create excitement so how can you say Chelsea are the best in the world?" He did not shy away from telling Mourinho that his success was down to Abramovich’s millions either.

The point is, unlike Keegan before him, Rafa Benitez is not some novice manager confronted with a situation like this for the first time in his career. When Ferguson tries to attack someone for their inexperience, he would do well to remember that there is a world outside the Premier League and I would wager that two Spanish league titles and a Champions League trophy have taught Benitez a thing or two about coping with pressure.

Ferguson has found himself a new adversary: he knows he is in a fight for the title race now, and I fully expect the United coach to react; while Benitez, who has seen off the likes of Real Madrid and Barcelona in the past, will put his piece of paper back in his pocket, and smile whenever the word ‘Fergie’ gets a mention over the next few weeks.

I wonder which one of them is really under the skin of the other...

jesus_thats_gre

It is amazing how it seems to be just opposing fans on forums and sky that think Rafa has lost it and was completely wrong..

LuckyLloyd

lol, this stuff is much more irrelevant than the media or you lot make out. Who gives a **** what the managers say in pre match press conferences?

ntlbell

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

lol, this stuff is much more irrelevant than the media or you lot make out. Who gives a **** what the managers say in pre match press conferences?

Rafa obviously does hence him retorting Alex's comments?

ntlbell

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

It is amazing how it seems to be just opposing fans on forums and sky that think Rafa has lost it and was completely wrong..

Liverpool fans in supporting their own manager shocker...:eek::eek::eek:

it's not about if he was right or wrong he looked and sounded like a 12yr old mumbling child...

podge018

a bald 12 year old with a goatee.

Dub13

ntlbell wrote: »

it's not about if he was right or wrong he looked and sounded like a 12yr old mumbling child...

All the top managers go on like kids from time to time,not just Rafa.

copacetic

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

It is amazing how it seems to be just opposing fans on forums and sky that think Rafa has lost it and was completely wrong..

from what I have seen on sky they are playing up the 'rant' as a story but also actually examining the substance, showing the clips of fergies rants etc and on soccer saturday today all the panel except Merson thought that all Rafas points were valid and that it was about time someone had the courage to stand up to his bullying attempts.

Hobart

ntlbell wrote: »

Rafa obviously does hence him retorting Alex's comments?

Rafa did not "retort" to Fergie's comments. He was asked a question by a reporter, and actually did not address the question, instead taking the opportunity to have a go at
Fergie and Fergie's antics.

For too long the Press, Fans and media in general, have passed off Fergie's rants as "mind games" (with a knowing look in thier eye) and have let Fergie use the press and the time afforded him, as an opportunity to have a go at Managers, Refs, Fans, Pitches and the colour of the shirts his players wear.

Rafa pointed out to the reporter, and the media at large yesterday, that while Fergie might be up to his "mind games" as usual, lets not forget that this guy has a history of trying to mess around with other peoples heads. The press normally ignore it, and so is he. If you want to talk about Fergie, lets talk about him praising the Respect campaign, while on the other hand undermining and slagging off refs and other officials. He also pointed out the fact that he gets away with it most of the time. In other words, Fergie is a total hyprocrite, when it comes to certain matters. Now print that lads.

I, for one, admire the balls of him.

Mr. Presentable

ntlbell wrote: »

Liverpool fans in supporting their own manager shocker...:eek::eek::eek:

it's not about if he was right or wrong he looked and sounded like a 12yr old mumbling child...

English is not his first language though, is it? If I said Ferguson slurs his way through interviews like a drunk I'd most likely get an infraction

But it is about whether he is right or not. As a neutral I can see he is right generally, even if one or two specifics are wrong, and should be applauded for having the balls to stand up and be counted.

Interestingly, this is similar to the start of the witch-hunt in Italy that led to Juventus, Lazio, Fiorentina being demoted. It was also started by a club who'd been in lean times domestically for years.

themont85

Wenger and Benitiez always come accross as complete children in these sorts of situations whether its moaning about refs or other managers. Fergie is just like the pissed of dad nobody wants to upset. Jose was Jose.

I personally thought it was rather pathetic that he came up with a dossier about Fergie. He lacks the quick wit or the ability to brush of comments without making a huge fuss about them.

themont85

Hobart wrote: »

Rafa did not "retort" to Fergie's comments. He was asked a question by a reporter, and actually did not address the question, instead taking the opportunity to have a go at
Fergie and Fergie's antics.

For too long the Press, Fans and media in general, have passed off Fergie's rants as "mind games" (with a knowing look in thier eye) and have let Fergie use the press and the time afforded him, as an opportunity to have a go at Managers, Refs, Fans, Pitches and the colour of the shirts his players wear.

Rafa pointed out to the reporter, and the media at large yesterday, that while Fergie might be up to his "mind games" as usual, lets not forget that this guy has a history of trying to mess around with other peoples heads. The press normally ignore it, and so is he. If you want to talk about Fergie, lets talk about him praising the Respect campaign, while on the other hand undermining and slagging off refs and other officials. He also pointed out the fact that he gets away with it most of the time. In other words, Fergie is a total hyprocrite, when it comes to certain matters. Now print that lads.

I, for one, admire the balls of him.

I've heard every single football manager do this in the premier league. Rafa is just as bad at moaning after games about refs ect, he's generally very sarcastic about it though.

IMHO, Rafa has set himself up for a massive fall in this instince.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

jesus_thats_gre

copacetic wrote: »

from what I have seen on sky they are playing up the 'rant' as a story but also actually examining the substance, showing the clips of fergies rants etc and on soccer saturday today all the panel except Merson thought that all Rafas points were valid and that it was about time someone had the courage to stand up to his bullying attempts.

I watched that just there alright. I am surprised that it was only Merson that disagreed with it. Matt seemed to be quite pleased with it, Thommo was delighted and even Charlie Nicholas (I think it was him) was impressed by it.

I was extremely surprised by most stances except Thommo's obviously.

Draupnir

It's mad that the wheels are coming off at Liverpool already, even before they start inevitably sliding down to their rightful place in third.

Benitez and his rant just highlights who the big club now is, just in the same way that Ferguson's rant in 1988 (in a very similar vein) proved exactly who the big club was then. It also tells us what we already know, if Benitez doesn't win the league this year he is getting sacked.

I for one just hope the tide doesn't swing wildly as it did after 1988....

Unearthly

nipplenuts wrote: »

Interestingly, this is similar to the start of the witch-hunt in Italy that led to Juventus, Lazio, Fiorentina being demoted. I was also started by a club who'd been in lean times domestically for years.

Jail Fergie, relegate Man Utd

Dub13

Draupnir wrote: »

It also tells us what we already know, if Benitez doesn't win the league this year he is getting sacked

The above is so far from the truth its laughable.

Draupnir

Dub13 wrote: »

The above is so far from the truth its laughable.

Do you think so? I think that Benitez has had more than enough time to build a title winning side, and certainly enough money. If United win the league this year, they will catch Liverpool in the overall number of titles won.

Will you want Benitez there next year if you haven't won the league again? I mean, what the hell is he going to do differently in this summer that convinces you next year might be the year!

Melion

Draupnir wrote: »

It's mad that the wheels are coming off at Liverpool already, even before they start inevitably sliding down to their rightful place in third.

Benitez and his rant just highlights who the big club now is, just in the same way that Ferguson's rant in 1988 (in a very similar vein) proved exactly who the big club was then. It also tells us what we already know, if Benitez doesn't win the league this year he is getting sacked.

I for one just hope the tide doesn't swing wildly as it did after 1988....

You're a day too late for trolling im afraid

Melion

Draupnir wrote: »

Do you think so? I think that Benitez has had more than enough time to build a title winning side, and certainly enough money. If United win the league this year, they will catch Liverpool in the overall number of titles won.

Will you want Benitez there next year if you haven't won the league again? I mean, what the hell is he going to do differently in this summer that convinces you next year might be the year!

And has he not built a title challenging side? Thats all any Liverpool fan wanted this season.

~Rebel~

Draupnir wrote: »

It's mad that the wheels are coming off at Liverpool already, even before they start inevitably sliding down to their rightful place in third.

Benitez and his rant just highlights who the big club now is, just in the same way that Ferguson's rant in 1988 (in a very similar vein) proved exactly who the big club was then. It also tells us what we already know, if Benitez doesn't win the league this year he is getting sacked.

I for one just hope the tide doesn't swing wildly as it did after 1988....

Guy, i really hope you're taking the piss! Wheels coming off? Christ...

As for it pointing out who the big club is, thats the Entire point of what rafa is saying, that Alex gets away with everything because of his stature while other managers would be punished.


Im in 2 minds about whether the level of somewhat trollish comments is rising, or the intelligence level is falling of late..

jesus_thats_gre

Draupnir wrote: »

It's mad that the wheels are coming off at Liverpool already, even before they start inevitably sliding down to their rightful place in third.

Benitez and his rant just highlights who the big club now is, just in the same way that Ferguson's rant in 1988 (in a very similar vein) proved exactly who the big club was then. It also tells us what we already know, if Benitez doesn't win the league this year he is getting sacked.

I for one just hope the tide doesn't swing wildly as it did after 1988....

Woah..

Draupnir

Melion wrote: »

You're a day too late for trolling im afraid

Trolling? How?

Do you not agree that Ferguson was only making the EXACT same point in 1988 because he was jealous of the Liverpool success at the time and needed to attack the obviously bigger club at that time? It's just a simple role reversal now.

Either way, Liverpool won't win the league this year in my opinion as they are not good enough.

Melion

Draupnir wrote: »

Trolling? How?

Do you not agree that Ferguson was only making the EXACT same point in 1988 because he was jealous of the Liverpool success at the time and needed to attack the obviously bigger club at that time? It's just a simple role reversal now.

Either way, Liverpool won't win the league this year in my opinion as they are not good enough.

Well you know what they say about opinions.

Draupnir

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Guy, i really hope you're taking the piss! Wheels coming off? Christ...

As for it pointing out who the big club is, thats the Entire point of what rafa is saying, that Alex gets away with everything because of his stature while other managers would be punished.


Im in 2 minds about whether the level of somewhat trollish comments is rising, or the intelligence level is falling of late..

The wheels have been coming off since virtually day one of the season, Liverpool are clinging to the top spot because no other side has excelled yet, not because of anything they have done.

Melion

Draupnir wrote: »

The wheels have been coming off since virtually day one of the season, Liverpool are clinging to the top spot because no other side has excelled yet, not because of anything they have done.

So we're only top because the other 3 haven't played well?

Dub13

Draupnir wrote: »

Do you think so? I think that Benitez has had more than enough time to build a title winning side, and certainly enough money. If United win the league this year, they will catch Liverpool in the overall number of titles won.

Will you want Benitez there next year if you haven't won the league again? I mean, what the hell is he going to do differently in this summer that convinces you next year might be the year!

How long did Sir Alex have..?Liverpool give there managers time Rafa has spent a bit of cash but not loads when you add up what he has sold.If United equal our number of titles won this season it will have absolutely no bearing on Rafa's position,why should it..?

Of course I want Rafa there next season he is heading in the right direction,if you need proof of this just look at the table and then have a look at the table this time last season.We don't do knee jerk reactions.

Draupnir

~Rebel~ wrote: »

As for it pointing out who the big club is, thats the Entire point of what rafa is saying, that Alex gets away with everything because of his stature while other managers would be punished.

Im in 2 minds about whether the level of somewhat trollish comments is rising, or the intelligence level is falling of late..

But Ferguson does get punished, very regularly and more than any off Wenger, Benitez and Mourinho ever have in the last few years. Why don't you go and total the fines and ban time they have each spent and then, when you realise the facts, you can admit you are wrong and bow to my intelligence and superiority in the form of a bullet pointed rant on an A4 sheet.

Deal?

Melion

Draupnir wrote: »

But Ferguson does get punished, very regularly and more than any off Wenger, Benitez and Mourinho ever have in the last few years. Why don't you go and total the fines and ban time they have each spent and then, when you realise the facts, you can admit you are wrong and bow to my intelligence and superiority in the form of a bullet pointed rant on an A4 sheet.

Deal?

Ever occur to you that he gets punished more than those 3 because he acts the cúnt more than the other 3?

Draupnir

Dub13 wrote: »

How long did Sir Alex have..?Liverpool give there managers time Rafa has spent a bit of cash but not loads who you add up what he has sold.If United equal our number of titles won this season it will have absolutely no bearing on Rafa's position,why should it..?

Of course I want Rafa there next season he is heading in the right direction,if you need proof of this just look at the table and then have a look at the table this time last season.We don't do knee jerk reactions.

That's fair enough, I can't argue with you.

Draupnir

Melion wrote: »

Ever occur to you that he gets punished more than those 3 because he acts the cúnt more than the other 3?

But how is that relevant? If Benitez is making the point that Ferguson never gets punished, are you saying Benitez is wrong? I think so.

Melion

Melion wrote: »

Ever occur to you that he gets punished more than those 3 because he acts the cúnt more than the other 3?

They're all very adept at moaning, don't kid yourself.

Melion

Not really.

Ferguson acts the cúnt 5 times, gets punished once or maybe twice.

Melion

Deleted User wrote: »

They're all very adept at moaning, don't kid yourself.

Oh i know they are but he does it a lot more than most, either that or gets his assistant to do it.

Draupnir

Melion wrote: »

Oh i know they are but he does it a lot more than most, either that or gets his assistant to do it.

Do you keep a count? Ridiculous.

jesus_thats_gre

Melion wrote: »

So we're only top because the other 3 haven't played well?

Yup, Liverpool are basically on top as a result of them being better so far this season than the other teams in the league.

Melion

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Yup, Liverpool are basically on top as a result of them being better so far this season than the other teams in the league.

Shocking

Draupnir

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Yup, Liverpool are basically on top as a result of them being better so far this season than the other teams in the league.

That's looking at it from the most self serving and abstract point of view though. That viewpoint ignores the fact that you are not the best team in the league and that, since medals aren't given out at Christmas, being top now wins you nothing.

Melion

Draupnir wrote: »

That's looking at it from the most self serving and abstract point of view though. That viewpoint ignores the fact that you are not the best team in the league and that, since medals aren't given out at Christmas, being top now wins you nothing.

Why are we top?

ntlbell

Hobart wrote: »

Rafa did not "retort" to Fergie's comments. He was asked a question by a reporter, and actually did not address the question, instead taking the opportunity to have a go at
Fergie and Fergie's antics..

oh a random question from a reporter

and he pulls out a here's one i prepared earlier sheet?

yes very random...

Draupnir

Melion wrote: »

Why are we top?

Neither United or Chelsea have started yet. Fact.

Melion

Draupnir wrote: »

Neither United or Chelsea have started yet. Fact.

I'd argue that either have Liverpool

ntlbell

Melion wrote: »

I'd argue that either have Liverpool

which is the norm...

Draupnir

Melion wrote: »

I'd argue that either have Liverpool

I'm sure you would, but past form doesn't give us any indication that Liverpool are any better than they've been this season. That is not the case with United or Chelsea.

Melion

Draupnir wrote: »

I'm sure you would, but past form doesn't give us any indication that Liverpool are any better than they've been this season. That is not the case with United or Chelsea.

And what happens if its the same situation in May? We only won the title because United and Chelsea couldnt be arsed this year

~Rebel~

Draupnir wrote: »

That's looking at it from the most self serving and abstract point of view though. That viewpoint ignores the fact that you are not the best team in the league and that, since medals aren't given out at Christmas, being top now wins you nothing.

On games played and results gotten thus far, liverpool are the best team in the league. Nothing matters beyond points, and pool have more then anyone else. We'll see if this is still true in a few months time, but as for now, the wheels have Not come off.

Ntlbell, did you not read what you quoted? It says a reporter asked a random question which rafa Did Not answer, instead saying everything he had planned to say.

ntlbell

Melion wrote: »

And what happens if its the same situation in May? We only won the title because United and Chelsea couldnt be arsed this year

well it's the only realistic hope liverpool have

Draupnir

No, that wouldn't be fair to say, at that point everyone would have to admit that Liverpool were the best side in the league this season. It is the reason that clubs value leagues so highly, you HAVE to be the best to win them, you don't have to be the best to be top at Christmas though.

It's like the 10,000m at the Olympics, there is always some headless cabbage setting the pace until the last few laps. He doesn't get a medal though.