Palm Pre - does everything the iPhone doesn't

sTuMbLeD

I've been considering getting an iPhone for yonks, but keep resisting coz while I think it works great as a media player and wifi browser, i didn't dig the touchscreen for typing sms, or needing to use iTunes to transfer stuff, the lack of removable memory and the useless camera.

I'm happy I waited as it looks like Palm has sorted all those annoyances and squeezed in a lot of fresh, innovative features too.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/01/08/palm_launches_pre/

Loads of pics in the endgadget galleries
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/08/the-palm-pre/

Hardware features:
wireless charging :eek:
touchscreen area bigger than viewable screen
sd card slot
micro-usb
LED flash
removable battery

Software features:
multiple open apps easily controllable with gestures
apps interact to share info and avoid duplication
apps can be created using only HTML/Javascript/CSS:D

Only catch I can think of is probably the price, which aint been mentioned anywhere yet, and initially only released in the US

sTuMbLeD

ahh, only CDMA at launch. Could be a wait for UTMS

Tom Dunne

Palm Pre - does everything the iPhone doesn't. Except make phonecalls in Europe. And Asia. And Africa.....

bk

The OS on the device looks great, it looks like they took all the best features of the iPhone and then took it to the last logical level.

This is good as hopefully it will drive Apple to do better.

However from the demo videos the keypad looks awful, I can type on the iphone way faster then what I saw on this demo. Full size qwerty keyboards on such small devices are overrated IMO, the iphone has it right.

Rsaeire

The wireless charging device is an additional device you have to pay for.

To be honest, it does look like a great handset, but I doubt it will sell anywhere near the amount of the other handsets it's trying to compete with; even if it did offer GSM and UMTS frequencys.

sTuMbLeD

yep, I got a bit too excited there

I'd guess Palm are prioritising the CDMA launch so they can partner with one of the several networks in the US that are CDMA-only. afaik iPhone doesn't support CDMA and is only available on AT&Ts UTMS network.

ozymandius

No you're right to be excited. It's CDMA on Sprint to start with, then UMTS shortly afterwards.

From palm_inc on twitter - "there are plans for a world-ready (UMTS) version of Pre. More info as we get closer to availability."

Details are still a bit sketchy - the hardware and software are still being tweaked and will be up to release in May/June. It definitely a big step forward for Palm though.

@bk - regarding the keyboard - wait until you actually try one. The similar kbd on the Centro and Palm Pro works very well. Much better than the screen-board of the iPhone, which I can't get used to. In most of the demo videos the Palm rep wouldn't let go of the demo device - which makes typing a bit awkward.

This is a paradigm changer - the whole concept is of connnectedness. iPhone fans shouldn't be so closed as to think that it their device can't be improved upon. The UI dissolves the distinction of separate apps - it's just data/info being presented from wherever.

Can't wait.

No one has seen any sign of SD slot yet.

strecker

UMTS version for Europe etc will be out 1st half of '09!

Initial unlocked/sim-free price around $500!
http://forums.ixplora.com/index.php?showtopic=4517

It is one hot phone
Loads of pics and - further along the thread - videos of the UI!
http://forums.ixplora.com/index.php?showtopic=4478

mobius42

I'm amazed that Palm of all companies released this. Their product lines have been stagnating for years! They also seem to be more open about letting developers access the phone's functionality; hopefully this might encourage Apple to loosen up a bit too. This is also a much more impressive phone than the G1. The wireless charging system is very interesting, too.
That been said, I don't think this phone is revolutionary and I think that most of the excitement is because people are really surprised that it's made by Palm! Also, the UI looks incredibly tacky and those rounded edges are ridiculous (In the web browser, they cut off part of the web page!). It's supposed to be pretty bulky too but that's hard to judge in pictures.

bk

ozymandius wrote: »

@bk - regarding the keyboard - wait until you actually try one. The similar kbd on the Centro and Palm Pro works very well. Much better than the screen-board of the iPhone, which I can't get used to. In most of the demo videos the Palm rep wouldn't let go of the demo device - which makes typing a bit awkward.

I've tried them, I can actually type faster on my iPhone. A friend in the US has a Centro, we tried competing writing the same text message, I was always able to send it faster.

After about a week of using the iPhone you get really fast with the keypad and it becomes a non issue, I write very long emails and posts with it all the time, it is really only an issue in the minds of people who don't own iPhones.

One thing to watch it for with Palm, all my Palm owning friends in the US complain that Palm support is awful and they rarely update the software or fix bugs once the phone is released. I mentioned the Pre to one of them and he said he didn't care, he had gotten burned by Palm too many times and his next phone is an iPhone.

But as you say, the UI looks excellent, a big step up from the iPhone, I wonder how Apple will respond. I've heard rumours that a major iPhone OS and UI update is on the way.

strecker

bk wrote: »

I've tried them, I can actually type faster on my iPhone. A friend in the US has a Centro, we tried competing writing the same text message, I was always able to send it faster.

After about a week of using the iPhone you get really fast with the keypad and it becomes a non issue, I write very long emails and posts with it all the time, it is really only an issue in the minds of people who don't own iPhones.

One thing to watch it for with Palm, all my Palm owning friends in the US complain that Palm support is awful and they rarely update the software or fix bugs once the phone is released. I mentioned the Pre to one of them and he said he didn't care, he had gotten burned by Palm too many times and his next phone is an iPhone.

But as you say, the UI looks excellent, a big step up from the iPhone, I wonder how Apple will respond. I've heard rumours that a major iPhone OS and UI update is on the way.

so you can type one-handed on your iphone faster than on a palm?
you don't quite 'get' what palm devices are designed for :P
Also, did your friend challenge you to a copy/paste contest :P Can s/he type?

strecker

bk wrote: »

One thing to watch it for with Palm, all my Palm owning friends in the US complain that Palm support is awful and they rarely update the software or fix bugs once the phone is released. I mentioned the Pre to one of them and he said he didn't care, he had gotten burned by Palm too many times and his next phone is an iPhone.

I'm sorry for replying twice to the same post, but that is just plain nonsense!!! You are making that up or your friends have no sims in their Palms...

strecker

first ad:

ozymandius

bk wrote: »

After about a week of using the iPhone you get really fast with the keypad and it becomes a non issue, I write very long emails and posts with it all the time, it is really only an issue in the minds of people who don't own iPhones.

Ditto the Palm thumb-board - after a week you be flying. Brother-in-law has an iPhone. He's comical with it, plink, plink instead of tappity-tap. Too proud to get rid of it.

My experience is that the business market don't like iPhones - for various reasons. BB the king there. Pre has Exchange support out of the box. Plenty of opportunity for Palm in that sector and well as with the well-heeled consumer.

bk wrote: »

One thing to watch it for with Palm, all my Palm owning friends in the US complain that Palm support is awful and they rarely update the software or fix bugs once the phone is released. I mentioned the Pre to one of them and he said he didn't care, he had gotten burned by Palm too many times and his next phone is an iPhone.

Not really true. They usually don't upgrade the complete OS like Apple because the device is pretty much right to start with. How many people re-flash Nokias or Samsungs etc. Go to the Palm support website. You'll see plenty of updates and enhancments for the various devices. Also there support is bad compared to who's? After many years of Palm devices I only needed one contact with support and it was fine. Good or bad as any other company's CS. There are horror stories of Apple's CS too and their devices' reliability. Pal of mine is onto his second 3G iPhone already - no phone for a couple of weeks. Another is on to his third or fourth MacBook (or fifth?) - hates Apple CS now - but would still buy another???.

Sorry if I come across as a Palm fanboy - but I am

strecker

At least you don't pretend!
And they actually have innovated in the past:
When the 750 came out it was the first treo with internal antenna, and no probs with loudspeakers nor cam! Plus it now had windows, and was still more stable than most wm devices! Than just recently the pro brought wifi, and it works a treat...it's little things. It's things that work(like the volume switch)! And with Palm's strong links to the linux community I have no doubt we'll see some good apps as well... Even more useful apps than iFart if you can imagine...

bk

strecker wrote: »

so you can type one-handed on your iphone faster than on a palm?
you don't quite 'get' what palm devices are designed for :P
Also, did your friend challenge you to a copy/paste contest :P Can s/he type?

Yes, I can, in fact I'm typing this post on my iPhone right now, how about you?

Of course I get what a Palm devices are designed for. Doesn't change that I can type very fast on the iPhone, the trick is to trust it to correct the spelling automatically when you hit the wrong key.

Copy/paste not a big deal, would be nice but iPhone designed in such a way that it isn't really important.

bk

ozymandius wrote: »

Ditto the Palm thumb-board - after a week you be flying. Brother-in-law has an iPhone. He's comical with it, plink, plink instead of tappity-tap. Too proud to get rid of it.

He hasn't learned how to use the iPhone keypad so, he needs to learn to trust that the iPhone will correct the spelling, he will be very fast then.

Basically it sounds like he is trying to pick out the precise location of the key, rather then just quickly hitting the general area of the key and trusting the apple software to correct mistakes.

ozymandius wrote: »

My experience is that the business market don't like iPhones - for various reasons. BB the king there. Pre has Exchange support out of the box. Plenty of opportunity for Palm in that sector and well as with the well-heeled consumer.

Firstly Exchange works very well on the iPhone also, I'm using an exchange server for mail, calendar and contacts sync on the iPhone myself.

You are right, the Crackberry is king in business however in my own experience (major US multinational IT company) everyone in my company is replacing their crackberries with iPhones, at least up to director level.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting down the Pre, it looks like an exciting new device with a great UI and I look forward to the competition it finally brings to the iPhone.

All I'm saying is that I'm excited by the Pre's OS and UI, the hardware looks only ok and I'm not bothered about the keypad, I think it is a non issue.

strecker

bk wrote: »

Yes, I can, in fact I'm typing this post on my iPhone right now, how about you?

Of course I get what a Palm devices are designed for. Doesn't change that I can type very fast on the iPhone, the trick is to trust it to correct the spelling automatically when you hit the wrong key.

Copy/paste not a big deal, would be nice but iPhone designed in such a way that it isn't really important.

You ought to be as correct in your logic as in your typing! The iPhone is NOT designed in such a way that copy/paste isn't an issue. It's your demand of a phone that is such that it's not an issue!!! Big difference! I'm doing a lot of my work stuff on a mobile while on the go, and I'm modding 2 sites/forums, often while on the go! Not being able to copy/paste between apps is just a big NO NO! NOT BEING ABLE TO INSERT images, links, quotes into posts?!
I am not saying the iPhone is bad. And I have friends who use phones in a different way to how I have to use mine. They are happy with their iPhones and I appreciate that and why! But talking the iPhone's 'weaknesses' into positives is just nonsense! And do you not think the treo pro and or pre have spell correction?
Or nokias s60? I can quite literally type this blind on my E71 without even using spell check, and if I wanted I could paste in comments from many many professionals who loved the idea of an iphone as a business device but eventually dropped it for a smartphone.
People have different uses for their gadgets and devices, different needs! My lady loves her ipod touch! I need my Samsung P2 cause I can answer my phone through the P2 when paired with my E71. She has a different job, and it's not an issue for her!
A lot of smartphone users DO need copy/paste and multitask and tethering and plug'n'play. It's essential! They do not have to love an iphone!

bk

strecker wrote: »

Or nokias s60? I can quite literally type this blind on my E71 without even using spell check,

I can do the same on the iPhone also, that is all I'm saying. You don't look at the spell checker on the iPhone, it just works automatically, quickly correcting any mistakes you make.

I was just watching the Palm Pre conference, the guy (head of Palm User Interface Design) was demoing the Pre and he was using the keypad and I'd be at least twice as fast as that on my iPhone!!

Conference video here:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/10/palm-pres-new-ness-event-video-now-viewable/

The funny thing is that before I got the iPhone, I was concerned about the keypad not being good enough, I was wrong and now I actually think that a physical keypad would actually slow me down!!

BTW watching the demo, the Pre looks like it has an outstanding UI and OS, in fact far better then the iPhone, all I'm saying is that I'm not convinced the physical keypad is better.

Sherifu

It has had a great effect on the palm share price. Investors seem to think palm are onto a winner here. Could save the company.

Will keep an eye on this for my next phone anyway.

godskitchen

I am really hoping that this phone turns out to live up to the hype.

I got myself an iphone in October of last year, and I am pretty sure a little bit of my soul died that day.

I never liked Apple, well thats not all ture, I never liked the people who buy Apple products and defend them like its their first born child. I espachally do not like people looking at me when I use the iphone, looking at me knowingly as if to say "it just works and you just get it....ONE OF US, ONE OF US!!!"

I cant wait to get rid of it. While it does some things extremely well, like mobile browsing and the ipod function, there are just some things about it that are just not finished. Plain and simple.

Its also now just too popular, go on the tube in London and its like one giant advert for Apple, they are every where. It also kills me to think that 90% of them are not jailbroken and the people using them are doing just as Apple want them to do.........obey!

I for one welcome the Pre and if its as good as it looks right now, my iphone will be on adverts.ie faster than the texting part of the iphone opens after you touch the icon...............so about 3-10 seconds.

bk

Sherifu wrote: »

It has had a great effect on the palm share price. Investors seem to think palm are onto a winner here. Could save the company.

Interestingly Elevation Partners, owned by Bono and the other lads in U2, own 40% of Palm, so they will be very happy.

strecker

bk wrote: »

I can do the same on the iPhone also, that is all I'm saying. You don't look at the spell checker on the iPhone, it just works automatically, quickly correcting any mistakes you make.

I was just watching the Palm Pre conference, the guy (head of Palm User Interface Design) was demoing the Pre and he was using the keypad and I'd be at least twice as fast as that on my iPhone!!

Conference video here:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/10/palm-pres-new-ness-event-video-now-viewable/

The funny thing is that before I got the iPhone, I was concerned about the keypad not being good enough, I was wrong and now I actually think that a physical keypad would actually slow me down!!

BTW watching the demo, the Pre looks like it has an outstanding UI and OS, in fact far better then the iPhone, all I'm saying is that I'm not convinced the physical keypad is better.

Just 2 things before I let you win this:
The guy was typing at a presentation!!! Heard of nerves? Not wanting to screw up in front of a hall of vultures?

And: I have an iphone btw! AND IMHO it is the best onscreen kb - not counting touchpal for wm which wipes the floor with apples kb - on any ts device. Still...

See, you win.
Doesn't mean Apple's not an evil cult hahaha...

Villain

This device looks nice really nice it looks like then have taken the Iphone and gone further with it the concept.

The only thing I would say they may have a problem breaking into the consumer market, I have used Palm's in the past and there were always good devices but always a business device first and foremost and then a phone.

I used to test new handheld devices in a previous job I went through Palm's, Blackberry's, Imate Jam's and just anything else and the they all in their own way were great devices but they all concentrated on email and connectivity but were often weak as a phone, i.e. sending a text or making a call were not as simple as they should be so a lot of people ended up with a blackberry and a phone.

Then Apple brought about the Iphone, and this phone had appeal real appeal it looked cool and it did cool things and most importantly is was pretty easy to use and even more important it followed their IPods in design and functionality and we know how many people have IPods so they had a ready market waiting to grab the device.

Then Apple go and add Exchange Active Sync and now the device as well as being cool works well and it is useful to the business user they can get email, calendar and taks all to sync onto their phone directly from exchange, so the Blackberry and Phone user was now tempted so now Apple have a market where the IPod user is hooked, the gadget lover is hooked and the business user is starting to show interest and the result is Apple can't supply enough devices.

Palm will no doubt have an audience of Business users who have used Palm's in the past and the Gadget lovers will be hooked but will the general IPod phone user be so quick to run and buy a Palm, I don't think so but it may well happen

mobius42

With everything tied into cloud services, will these come with an unlimited data plan?
Also, all the apps for it are going to be web apps. Hasn't Apple already shown that web apps are crap? Remember the howls of derision when they announced web apps first?
This phone does a lot of interesting things (the multitasking particularly), but I don't understand why people are going so crazy about it. People were crazy over the Blackberry Storm too, but look what happened there.
Here's hoping that it might encourage Apple to start filling the gaps in the iPhone's functionality. However, I don't think Apple have been sitting on their hands in the last six months. What happened to that push notification system that was supposed to be released in September? I think we'll be hearing an announcement about that and more soon.
Still, I'm impressed that Palm has managed to pull itself out of the doldrums and generate this much excitement.

strecker

mobius42 wrote: »

With everything tied into cloud services, will these come with an unlimited data plan?
Also, all the apps for it are going to be web apps. Hasn't Apple already shown that web apps are crap? Remember the howls of derision when they announced web apps first?
This phone does a lot of interesting things (the multitasking particularly), but I don't understand why people are going so crazy about it. People were crazy over the Blackberry Storm too, but look what happened there.
Here's hoping that it might encourage Apple to start filling the gaps in the iPhone's functionality. However, I don't think Apple have been sitting on their hands in the last six months. What happened to that push notification system that was supposed to be released in September? I think we'll be hearing an announcement about that and more soon.
Still, I'm impressed that Palm has managed to pull itself out of the doldrums and generate this much excitement.

that IS actually my concern, too. kovacz over at www.ixplora.com pointed that out and scared me hahaha aargh. I have no interest in BB-type subscriptions...
then again, they do say the European versions WILL be 3g AND sim-free!

bk

Excellent post Villain, it very accurately describes the market.

The question I have is how will Apple respond?

They could do nothing, even with the Pre around Apple could just sit back and continue to dominate due to it's name, advertising, iTunes, App store and outstanding iPod and game integration. The iPhone will likely remain unchallenged in the consumer market for a long time to come.

However I think Apple also want a big chunk of the business market and the Pre would definitely hurt it there. I don't believe for a moment that Apple engineers aren't busily working away on big improvements to the iPhone OS and UI. After all by the time the Pre launches, the iPone will be three years old!! Time for a refresh.

Apple always knew that someone would eventually come up with a phone that would challenge their dominance, either Nokia or RIM or Palm or MS, eventually someone was going to come up with a competitive phone and I'd be shocked if they don't have a plan on how to fight it.

I hope and expect many of the Pre's features will come to the iPhone.

[QUOTE=mobius42[]Also, all the apps for it are going to be web apps. Hasn't Apple already shown that web apps are crap? Remember the howls of derision when they announced web apps first?[/QUOTE]

Palms approach is different and much better then the iPhones original approach. Apple originally just wanted you to make web apps in the browser and the apps had no access to the functionality or API's of the iPhone.

Palms approach is that all apps on the phone are written in HTML, Javascript and CSS, that they are first class citizens (they look like native apps, they aren't just in the browser) and that they have full access to many of the phones features (such as phone book, accelerometer, etc.) through the API.

The only disadvantage of this approach is that it will make advanced games impossible unlike on the iPhone, you really need direct access to the OpenGL drivers and a C type language to make advanced games.

This ties in to what Villain said above about Palm being more business oriented then consumer oriented. I'm sure Palm will eventually allow the access needed for advanced games, but you might be waiting a year (just like with the original iPhone).

mobius42

I'm skeptical about the pre being attractive to the business market. Judging from their demo, it seemed that they were going more towards the social networking crowd. They emphasied all the web 2.0 site integration. Would businesses like their employees having facebook integrated into their phones? I don't think so, as most businesses block access to these sites!

BostonB

Personally I don't like the palm/blackberry keypads. I find the iPhone much easier. The iPhone has had less features than other phones since it launched. Hasn't made any difference to its sales. you either like the interface or you don't. I can't see the Palm Pre making that much of a difference to palm sales. Its just not slick enough to appeal to most people. Apples never chased the business market that much with its products. Don't see why this time will be any different.

long_b

I'm sure Palm will be delighted to get my official Thumbs Up on the new UI.

Have you ever seen a nicer way to manage your running apps ?

Which networks would be most likely to get this little fella - (based, I suppose, on carrying previous Palm offerings ?)

Draupnir

Why wont this device succeed? 2 words, App Store. Apple have created a unique selling point which is the real killer in the iPhone experience, unless Palm offer a valid alternative and get as many people involved as Apple have, I think Apple have created an almost unbeatable eco-system.