Is this site being over moderated

Cabaal

Houseswap1 wrote: »

Go and have a look at the waterford city forum and you'll see in majority of thrends the mods are constanly editing or deleting posts. I understand they are times when they need to but not as often as they are.
Posters are getting banned for stupid reasons that dont warrent any action at all. IMO Part of the reason the forum is so quite is people wont bother posting ans they feel hey cant have there say.
There is one mod in peticular who seems to be using his powers to get back at socity or something. You have to be imparsial to be a mod no???

Rightly so that these threads are edited or deleted, many of them leave boards open to legal action due to downright stupid comments about various community's.

Dispite numerous warnings from mods on this issue a number of extremely thick users have continued to comment in the same way which has led them to be banned, in addition mods have told users that if they have a problem with modding posting in waterford forum is not the place and instead it should be taken to helpdesk or PM, again thick users have not listened to this and got themselfs banned.

All in all its down to people not listening to simple warnings

Cabaal

Houseswap1 wrote: »

other sites in the locality like www.upthedeise.com are flying. plrnty ochat and facts and a welth of information about waterford.

If your so unhappy with boards before you apparently reged for the first time then why did you even bother reg?
Why not continue to post on other sites where apparently you can say what you want without mods carrying?

muffler

I think Cabaal has summarised this whole issue very concisely and eloquently. I find it very strange also that someone who has just become a new member yesterday and who has never posted in the Waterford forum should see fit to start a debate on the moderation of the forum.

Sully has also outlined our position both here and in the Waterford forum and which doesnt really need any further comment.

Houseswap1 you linked to one thread and I shall now explain to you what happened there as I will do for any other examples you wish to bring here. The thread was started a by a user who outlined how he had been mistakenly identified as a drugs dealer at a particular premises. Others offered their opinions as to what he should do about it until we had a user - meldrew - who stated that the OP should name and shame.

Sully warned of the consequences for boards.ie if names were mentioned and I followed that up with a warning that people would be banned if the named the premises concerned. So far so good - standard moderation practices.

meldrew then derailed the thread by questioning the modding of not only that thread but the "site" in general and was asked to stay on topic. He refused and continued to derail the topic and in response to Sully's warning that Boards.ie could be sued for slanderous remarks he had this to say

Seriously people get a life its only an internet discussion site ffs who cares if something happens to it

He got infracted and I posted a public warning that there was to be no further debate on moderation as the the thread had gone pear shaped at this stage. But people wouldn't heed that warning and proceeded to drag it further off topic (those posts are now deleted) so they got banned.

Now where in all of that can you point out bad or poor moderation? I have a care of duty towards Boards.ie which includes removing any material that may be deemed libelous and also to keep control of the various threads. That I have done and that I will continue to do. If someone wants to name and shame then they can get their own little soap box and roar to their heart's content.

If you have anything else you wish to discuss with me personally then PM and it will be dealt with.

Terry

Houseswap1 wrote: »

Look at the thrend i posted a link to and that is a example of what goes on a regulat basis, Have seen it a load of times. Just look at any travellar thrend and you'll see the heavy hand approach of the mods. Im not going to post links to all forms that this has happened. Read through them and you'll see.

Id like to see how the poll would do if it was left in the waterford forumn.

Im a poster on a few discussion sites and the mods on this are by far the worst

Right, so it's travellers you have a beef with.
Fair enough. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
The thing is, boards is equal opportunities and doesn't cater specifically to people who just have a problem with travellers, whether they are an ethnic group or not.

We get a lot of people here who have an agenda towards some cause or another.
The waterford forum tends to have a lot of trouble with people ranting about travellers and the mods there have to be impartial.
I see the same crap in After Hours too.

For every person defending the rights of travellers, we get twenty others saying they are the scum of the earth and should be exterminated.

The Waterford mods don't get to voice their own opinions really. They are there to keep the debates on whatever subjet civilised and when it comes to travellers, that's not an easy job.

Put yourself in their shoes for a minute. Think of how they feel.

I'm going to use Suly as an example.
Let's say that Sully hates travellers and want's to rid the planet of them.
He can't say that because he's a moderator.
So along comes [insert name] and [insert name] feels the same.
Sully has to ban that person because of their extremist views.
Sully then has to listen to a load of crap via private message and then the thread ends up here.

Do you honestly think any of us enjoy this part of the moderating process?
We don't.
This is the crappy part and all we can do is sit back and make jokes about it to ourselves (not to be read as jokes between each other).

We do this because we enjoy the site. We do it to help keep the site running smoothly and to help ensure it doesn't end up falling foul of the fact that Irish based sites are liable for the content postd on them.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castlebar#Web_Site for reference to these laws.

wikipedia wrote:

The Web Site for the region can be found at www.castlebar.ie

As of 3rd June 2008 the Web site is shut down due to a threat of legal action by Tony Geraghty, editor of the local free paper Mayo Echo following comments posted (and subsequently removed at Mr Geraghty's request) following a controversial article printed in the paper.

Since publication of the original article, the debate has moved onto national radio, and groups have been formed on Facebook and Myspace in support of the Web site. There is also a campaign site with a link to a petition.

Believe me, your beloved Deise website could just as easily fall foul of the same crap.


Edit: I have no idea about Sully's views on travellers. He was just used as an example.

Dudess

Houseswap1 wrote: »

In a recent thrend out of 25 posts 10 were from moderaters backing each other up

Again, could you give a link to that thread?

Houseswap1 wrote: »

Stay on topic

That seemed perfectly on-topic...

Houseswap1 wrote: »

The whole site is turning into a dictorship.

No Discussions

No debate.

Are you serious?

Sully

Dudess wrote: »

Again, could you give a link to that thread?

Just to be helpful..

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055455679

I counted 6 mod replies, all warnings bar the last which was closing of the thread. 8 if you count Cabaal (as a mod of another forum) reply and takolas thanks.

Tom Dunne

Here's an outsider's perspective. I don't read the Waterford forum, I don't know the Waterford mods, only having met one of them briefly (and he was asleep at the time, long story) and I haven't been to Waterford itself in a few years.

It is interesting to see a number of relatively new posters with such strong convictions on how Boards.ie should be run. Especially since they don't seem to venture outside of the Waterford forums. They seem to have extreme difficulty with the fact that "the site" is not just the Waterford forum, but the whole of Boards.ie. They also seem to have trouble with the concept that there is no free speech on Boards.ie. They seem oblivious to the fact that Boards.ie can be held accountable for everything they say and that if they post up slander (or libelling, I can never remember which is which) a local business it's not them that gets in trouble, it's Boards.ie.

When pulled up and slandering somebody, or posting bigoted comments, they cry foul and claim the moderators are using heavy handed techniques and stifling debate.

To me, this reeeks of narrow-minded tribalism. Get out of the Waterford forum, open your mind, see that there is way more to Boards.ie than just Waterford. See how the rest of the site is run, see the fun that is had, the friendships that are made, the people that are helped. And when you do see that this is a great site and that yes, the moderators do give a damn about what happens to it, then, and maybe then, you might actually be able to make a worthwhile contribution to the site.

Overheal

lets be clear on the libel/slander thing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation#Defenses

I dont like it when something gets locked and snipped for telling the truth, particularly.

Saibh

Houseswap1 wrote: »

Long time reading the posts but only recently signed up

Houseswap1 wrote: »

The whole site is turning into a dictorship.

Did you come to this conclusion that it is turning into a dictatorship as a long time reader or after you posted on Boards?

Terry

meldrew wrote:

Thats exactly what I'm getting at and then they get their cronies to back them up ! Seriously people get a life its only an internet discussion site ffs who cares if something happens to it , theres a lot more things to worry about out in the real world , its only a bit of craic just dont be going overboard on the power trips !

Had someone posted that in AH, I would have banned them instantly.
If you don't care about the site, then why use it in the first place?

muffler

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I don't know the Waterford mods, only having met one of them briefly (and he was asleep at the time, long story)

I knew if I waited long enough I'd find out the name of the bollix that took advantage of me in my bed :cool:

Dudess

I notice the whingers don't seem capable of addressing questions that may be asked of them, or valid points that might refute some of what they're saying.

There are some arrogant, aggressive moderators AND regular users (because there are some arrogant, aggressive people)... and Sully and muffler don't fit into either category - they are two of the nicest Boards members I've ever encountered, especially Sully (only saying that as I have more interaction with him than with muffler ). They are approachable, friendly and warm... and crucially, I've seen Sully actually standing up for users from time to time here.

So it appears you've misjudged them. Maybe put yourselves in their shoes, read the charter which they have to comply with... oh and perhaps question your own behaviour.

Tom Dunne

Dudess wrote: »

I notice the whingers don't seem capable of addressing questions that may be asked of them, or valid points that might refute some of what they're saying.

Exactly. They seem quite capable of throwing their toys out of the pram and wailing, but are not willing to open their minds.

Whingeing is the best they can do.

Beruthiel

Beruthiel wrote: »

Considering that you have four posts, all of them in this thread, can you explain to me how and where your point of view was disregarded exactly?

I'm still waiting for answer to the above question....

trout

Beruthiel wrote: »

I'm still waiting for answer to the above question....

Do you feel you are being disregarded ?


/on topic

I don't know Sully ... or any of the Waterford mods.
I went to college in Waterford back when it was an RTC, so I occasionally drop into the City forum for a lurk. It strikes me as a well moderated forum, with a lot of activity, and a few personalities.

I see no evidence of any Waterford mod doing anything less than a stellar job of work.

If the OP, or any supporters of the OP's point of view, would like to link to any threads/posts/actions in the Waterford forums that may be questionable ... I'm sure the truth will out. It always does.

Brian Capture

muffler wrote: »

I have a care of duty towards Boards.ie which includes removing any material that may be deemed libelous

hang on

what if the statements contained in the material are true?

"I was called a drug dealer in XXX pub".

Don't see the problem in naming XXX pub if that's what took place.

Zaph

Brian Capture wrote: »

hang on

what if the statements contained in the material are true?

"I was called a drug dealer in XXX pub".

Don't see the problem in naming XXX pub if that's what took place.

Yeah, but the difference there is that the pub is just the location. Calling you a drug dealer is the libellous part of the act, the location is incidental. If however you posted something like "I was told that I was a drug dealer, just like all the other fcukers in XXX pub" then you start to run into problems.

muffler

Brian Capture wrote: »

hang on

what if the statements contained in the material are true?

"I was called a drug dealer in XXX pub".

Don't see the problem in naming XXX pub if that's what took place.

Oh dear. That just about sums up peoples ignorance of the laws of this country.

Brian Capture

muffler wrote: »

Oh dear. That just about sums up peoples ignorance of the laws of this country.

ok let me simplify it.

"I was ripped off in ZZZ shop"

surely we are allowed post about a negative experience we had in a retail outlet?

The posts about being incorrectly labelled as a drug dealer in XXX pub essentially detail another negative experience - this time it took place in a pub.

If it happened and if the OP can prove it happened then what is the problem?

Steve

Brian Capture wrote: »

ok let me simplify it.

"I was ripped off in ZZZ shop"

surely we are allowed post about a negative experience we had in a retail outlet?

The posts about being incorrectly labelled as a drug dealer in XXX pub essentially detail another negative experience - this time it took place in a pub.

If it happened and if the OP can prove it happened then what is the problem?

I give up..

Please tell me you can tell the difference between the two examples you just gave.

If not then remove the kettle and do everyone a favour and GTFO of boards.

Overheal

Zaph wrote: »

Yeah, but the difference there is that the pub is just the location. Calling you a drug dealer is the libellous part of the act, the location is incidental. If however you posted something like "I was told that I was a drug dealer, just like all the other fcukers in XXX pub" then you start to run into problems.

or if it was someone in the employ of the pub that called you the drug dealer.

smashey

Oh how you make me laugh OP, signing up and immediatley spouting crap about over moderation.

If boards.ie is so over moderated, how come we have well over 100,000 members while other less moderated sites have considerably fewer members?

Maybe the fact that the moderators here keep the whole place running smoothly actually encourages people to sign up safe in the knowledge that if they abide by the rules, they can debate issues, have a bit of crack or find some solution to any problems they have without getting abuse hurled at them.

hullaballoo

Overheal wrote: »

lets be clear on the libel/slander thing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation#Defenses

I dont like it when something gets locked and snipped for telling the truth, particularly.

Look, I don't want to be a prick, I just am one.

If you don't fully understand the intricacies of the legal system, you really shouldn't profess to be an oracle on the matter. Truth is a defence to a claim of defamation. That just means that if/when the case gets to court, if the defendant can prove the truth of his statement, he has a defence. The costs of getting the case that far alone would be enough to make anyone feel queasy - proving truth in the context of defamation is far more difficult than just asserting the truthfulness of your statement.

For those reasons, we are (as a nation) minded to watch what we say in public because once it's defamatory (ie lowers the subject in the minds of right-thinking members of society), the plaintiff has a case that he will probably win unless the defendant can prove his case under one of the defences.

DublinWriter

Houseswap1 wrote: »

I cant help but feel people wont post because they feel they cant air there views and opinions without being moderated. I understand certain things have to be deleted due to legal reasons and all that but its seems like a dictatorship latly.

Remember that this site isn't a government agency set up for the public good.

It's their club, their rules, and ultimately their Google adsense revenue.

The laws regarding slander and libel in Ireland and the UK as applied to an online context still remain very much a legal grey area with little case-law on the books. Considering the recent case against UK online site The Motely Fool, mods are quite right to be trigger happy when contentious issues arise.

That being said, while mods give muchly of their time and remain financially unrewarded for their duties, there does remain a certain impoliteness and disregard for the n00b that goes well into the boundaries of cliquedom; this is especially evident in the Feedback forum.

Remember that we were all n00bs once at some time.

Sites like this live and die by the revenue they receive from Google and as such, boards.ie reached critical mass a long time ago.

However, new blood is always needed. It takes a hell of a lot of personal time to moderate even one forum. People can't do it forever.

I think it would be helpful if initial errors of etiquette on the part of n00bs weren't met initially with the capitol punishment of sitebans.

Sully

DublinWriter wrote: »

I think it would be helpful if initial errors of etiquette on the part of n00bs weren't met initially with the capitol punishment of sitebans.

Nice post.

Im curious tho as to what cliquette you see and also what siteban for newbs you dislike? The only thing iv notice in that area would be Adverts.ie but I never took much notice as I dont use it and its not Boards.ie.

pirelli

<3BeingIN6th wrote: »

This is a privately owned site.
Irish internet laws are quite strict when it comes to slander, libel and such.

The moderators are here to ensure that anything that could potentially land the site in trouble (read court) is removed.

Example: In other parts of the world you could get away with calling John down the road a complete wanker who abuses kids and get away with it. Do that here and John could sue the owners of the site.

Your example really sums it up.

It's ironic that boards.ie are always the most likely to distribute disturbing
and nauseating information . Isn't John the name of one the owner's of boards.ie. I hope thats not an innuendo. Like the OP said are "some" moderators more trouble than they are worth.

Steve

DublinWriter wrote: »

Sites like this live and die by the revenue they receive from Google and as such, boards.ie reached critical mass a long time ago.

I find that comment hard to stomach. To me, boards.ie has always been about the users and not about the revenue generated by ads. If that were true then I (and I hope a lot of others) would not still be posting here.

Yes we were all noobs once, I take pride in the fact that I'm able to help them out the odd time and point them to whatever part of boards will answer their needs.

Time Magazine

Économiste Monétaire wrote: »

I chose: 'Not enough'. I assume that means the fora which we frequent are under-moderated, to some extent.

Banned :pac:

watty

Millions of years ago there was NTTP aka usenet aka news servers (the days BEFORE binary news groups googlegroups or YahooGroups, heck, hardly anyone had a web browser).

You needed cast iron suit and asbestoes underware.

Here you can wear ordinary clothes. Thus the Moderation is a GOOD THING.

The number of posts and people happy and people thanking for help tells me this is by FAR the best Web 2.0 site in Ireland.

One UK Site I used to go to had to make it Verfied Real Names only to even log in and read!

The Moderators do NOT get paid, (or even hookers and coke), wanting to be one, acting the maggot or showing signs of power mad control freakness is a sure way of never becoming one. So the Mods are here to make the site a good experience for all.

I'd for sure not bother coming back if trouble makers, shills and such did not get nuked.

Économiste Monétaire

The Economist wrote: »

Banned :pac:

Damn you and your Keynesian moderation! I recede, bring back laissez-faire...