Is this site being over moderated

echosound

Is there a possibility to perhaps change the thread title to reflect that the OP is talking specifically about the Waterford City Board? Or perhaps to set up a new poll as this current poll will have been skewed greatly by people voting on the site moderation as a whole rather than themoderation on the particular forum the OP originally posted this thread in and was referring to...

In general, I don't think that Boards.ie overall is overly/heavily moderated, but when talking about a specific forum, namely the Waterford City forum, I would tend to think it is.

It doesn't - IMO - seem to allow for much banter between posters, and I think it's become a lot quieter as a result of the perception that it's more heavily moderated than many other fora, hence posters tend to not bother posting there unless it's a request for specific info (eg how much does a meal in x restaurant cost, where could I find a house to rent at short notice, gym prices in Waterford, etc).

It seems to have turned into a forum to seek basic info, rather than a board which promotes discussion or debate on various topics. I'm not the only one who feels this way either, as I know a few boardsies IRL who have all said the same.

I personally post on a number of other fora, both predominantly-Irish-based, and international, some which are medium sized in terms of community size, some which are sprawlingly huge, and I've only come across one other (interestingly enough Irish-based) site that seems to me to be more heavily moderated than the Waterford board.

JMO though. It's just a vibe that the Waterford City forum has become a little stilted and strained in terms of open discussion for fear of being hit with the ban stick. And by open discussion, I don't mean slandering businesses or slamming various minority groups, I just mean people expressing their opinion on a topic.

Sully

echosound: Can you give an example? We were asked a while back to allow more chit-chat in threads by some of the users which we have done once it doesnt get to off topic. We tried an off topic thread but nobody really ever used it.

Im happy to allow off topic posts within reason as I think most of us are.

Any suggestions/ideas are welcome. There has been very very little bans handed out to the forum regulars in recent months - only spammers have been getting the boot.

echosound

Hey Sully, this is all just my own perspective on things, and as such it's all subjective rather than objective - but I know that often I have typed out a reply to a topic, previewed it, then not bothered to submit it at all, mainly due to the fact that I don't want to have to qualify every opinion I offer with disclaimers, or labouriously pointing out that I am not making a sweeping statement of fact about one particular person/group/business etc. I don't have specific examples as, well, I didn't post them;), and that's down to a feeling that it would be easier not to bother posting in case the thread veers off into a lock if one poster comes in and starts hassle, as I have seen happen in the past, so I toddle off to an entirely different site completely to have the same discussion.

It's not that I am thinking of posting up something horrifically controversial or inflammatory that could start a sh1tstorm for Boards.ie in terms of legal ramifications; just that even mild opinions I might offer up could be taken up wrongly by people (not mods particularly, mind, but some posters make a virtue of taking a stance of trembling outrage over the most tenuous/flimsy of causes) and I don't fancy getting an infraction/warning/banning slapped on my relatively clear (to date ) user account if the thread takes a flaming turn in response to what is merely an opinion expressed in the midst of a valid discussion, and for that discussion to end in a lock.

As for suggestions? Well, one thing that I personally would like to see are more "general" discussion threads, that are allowed to develop more fluidly rather than sticking slavishly to the topic at hand. (obviously I don't mean a quantum leap in terms of the general thrust of the thread).

What I mean by that is that while I acknowledge it's a forum dedicated to things pertaining only to Waterford, it's always nice to get a flavour of localised perspectives or regional variations of opinions on wider topics also. Often interesting to see if perhaps living in/being from a particular area will colour your opinion on something that has a wider scope.

What normally happens (due to forum rules) is if a more general topic that is not strictly pertaining to the city proper is opened, it's often shunted off to another forum. For the most part, that's grand, but say, for e.g. (just off the top of my head - a boring topic that in fairness has been done to death in AH) if someone started a thread about "the recession and how it's affecting you", it might be nice to leave such a thread there to see how it's affecting Waterford people in particular, as it might become apparent from discussion that it might be hitting harder (or not as hard) locally than in other pockets of the population.
Or a discussion about various habits/preferences/hobbies/trends/career paths/goals/philosophies in life/whatever, that again might show that people from a particular area are all influenced (or not!) by having similar backgrounds and reference points etc. I know they're rubbish suggestions for actual topics :pac:, but I hope you get the gist of what I mean? Dunno if I'm making myself clear here as I'm prone to a bit of waffling once I get going

What I'm saying in a very longwinded fashion is that it might be nice if it could be a bit more relaxed as to what qualifies as a strictly "Waterford" discussion, and slightly more general conversations among a group of geographical peers could be tolerated, even for just a trial period to see how it pans out in terms of how easy/difficult it is to moderate such discussions.

Dunno if other posters on the Waterford board would like the above or not, but as I said, that's just my 2 cent's worth of a suggestion.

Sully

echosound wrote: »

Hey Sully, this is all just my own perspective on things, and as such it's all subjective rather than objective - but I know that often I have typed out a reply to a topic, previewed it, then not bothered to submit it at all, mainly due to the fact that I don't want to have to qualify every opinion I offer with disclaimers, or labouriously pointing out that I am not making a sweeping statement of fact about one particular person/group/business etc. I don't have specific examples as, well, I didn't post them;), and that's down to a feeling that it would be easier not to bother posting in case the thread veers off into a lock if one poster comes in and starts hassle, as I have seen happen in the past, so I toddle off to an entirely different site completely to have the same discussion.

Well firstly - Thanks for coming here and being so open. Your the first to give proper, constructive Feedback. Its much appreciated.

I see the point you are making but I cant say I have noticed it happen much. That is, I haven't seen many people misunderstand people and result in a flame war etc. If there has been, apologises for not being able to recall. If you find an example or two, send them my way and ill see where it went wrong and what can be done to prevent a repeat.

I suppose we might be a bit to quick locking threads when it veers completely off topic, isn't going anywhere at all and nobody will listen to us when we ask can we get back to the OPs original comment. Take for example the last thread locked there a few days back. Started of fine but one user kept ignoring us and others joined in. muffler had no choice but to lock it. This method didnt result in many bans or infractions then if we got stricter to cut off the nonsense when it goes over a certain level and ban/infract those who insist on ignoring us after a few warnings.

Which method, in your opinion, would you prefer in terms of dealing with it? I absolutely *hate* when some idiot spoils a thread and we have to close it.

It's not that I am thinking of posting up something horrifically controversial or inflammatory that could start a sh1tstorm for Boards.ie in terms of legal ramifications; just that even mild opinions I might offer up could be taken up wrongly by people (not mods particularly, mind, but some posters make a virtue of taking a stance of trembling outrage over the most tenuous/flimsy of causes) and I don't fancy getting an infraction/warning/banning slapped on my relatively clear (to date ) user account if the thread takes a flaming turn in response to what is merely an opinion expressed in the midst of a valid discussion, and for that discussion to end in a lock.

Not much we can do there if people are picking you up wrong. Kinda outside our remit as mods. Best thing to do is, if a user is being a gob****e report it or PM one of the mods. We can then step in and try clear up any problems and get the thread back on topic. The rest boils down to what I said earlier about how we should deal with persistent users ignoring us.

Id hate to think users are afraid to post because of how certain users are reacting. So, let us know if there is a problem. Sometimes we might not notice it!

As for suggestions? Well, one thing that I personally would like to see are more "general" discussion threads, that are allowed to develop more fluidly rather than sticking slavishly to the topic at hand. (obviously I don't mean a quantum leap in terms of the general thrust of the thread).

What I mean by that is that while I acknowledge it's a forum dedicated to things pertaining only to Waterford, it's always nice to get a flavour of localised perspectives or regional variations of opinions on wider topics also. Often interesting to see if perhaps living in/being from a particular area will colour your opinion on something that has a wider scope.

What normally happens (due to forum rules) is if a more general topic that is not strictly pertaining to the city proper is opened, it's often shunted off to another forum.

This is something we might have been a bit quick on before but are trying to allow a small bit of room for not specific issues but more Waterford related discussions. Problem is where we draw the line as its a discussion site that has forums for other topics and more random topics. For example; we have a Sports forum, a Motors forum, a Music forum etc. so we would prefer to move these generic ones to their related forum unless they are Waterford related.

I had hoped this was working!

For the most part, that's grand, but say, for e.g. (just off the top of my head - a boring topic that in fairness has been done to death in AH) if someone started a thread about "the recession and how it's affecting you", it might be nice to leave such a thread there to see how it's affecting Waterford people in particular, as it might become apparent from discussion that it might be hitting harder (or not as hard) locally than in other pockets of the population.

Or a discussion about various habits/preferences/hobbies/trends/career paths/goals/philosophies in life/whatever, that again might show that people from a particular area are all influenced (or not!) by having similar backgrounds and reference points etc. I know they're rubbish suggestions for actual topics :pac:, but I hope you get the gist of what I mean? Dunno if I'm making myself clear here as I'm prone to a bit of waffling once I get going

Agreed. I think I covered that a good bit above. We do have local recession based threads btw. Just in case you didnt see them. But I do see your point and hopefully I covered it above.

What I'm saying in a very longwinded fashion is that it might be nice if it could be a bit more relaxed as to what qualifies as a strictly "Waterford" discussion, and slightly more general conversations among a group of geographical peers could be tolerated, even for just a trial period to see how it pans out in terms of how easy/difficult it is to moderate such discussions.

Dunno if other posters on the Waterford board would like the above or not, but as I said, that's just my 2 cent's worth of a suggestion.

Thanks again for the Feedback. Hopefully I have covered it well earlier in the post. Let me know what you think

muffler

I just had a look at the front page of the Waterford City forum and there are 20 threads listed. One of them is locked, another has been moved (this one) and that leaves 18. Out of those 18 threads there is only one that contains a deleted post and that was a duplicate post that was removed by the poster.

Again referring to the full 20 threads I have posted in one of them only and that is the one that is locked. So to say the forum is over moderated is way wide of the mark completely. The evidence is there if people wish to view it without rose tinted glasses.

Not The Real Scarecrow

I don't really have an opinion of the mods either way, however I have noticed that the type of posting has changed dramatically on the waterford boards over the last few months.I used to check out the waterford boards the whole time to get the gossip going around the town as I hardly ever venture into waterford or hear much about whats going on.It was great for that.That type of post has almost disappeared from the board, and has been replaced with what echo was saying about, just the asking prices or wheres the best restaurant posts.Now either nothing has been happening around the town or there is a reason why people aren't posting.I'm not saying that it has to do with the mods but it could be a possibility going on the general posts recently.These posts also explain why none of the 20 posts on the front page are locked as the majority of them are just people asking simple questions and aren't exactly great topics for discussion,where people could possibly post something to incur banning or locking etc.
Its a great shame that posting has changed so much, I used to love checking in and getting a bit of news about the town before it appeared on the radio or newspaper, or even the stuff that wasn't reported.Example being of the coverage given to downes when it went up in flames.Heard more about it on boards than anywhere else and saw some interesting pics and stuff.
At the end of the day though, I think some people take it way too seriously.So what if you get banned or warned, it's more than likely nothing personal.At the worst its an over enthusiastic mod.And at the end of the day , while boards can be interesting at times , its not as if its the best thing online , the majority of the posts are mundane, stupid rants or intellectual black holes(just as the majority of my posts are).If people aren't happy with it, just don't use boards anymore.Set up your own forum or do something constructive.

brendansmith

In short, yes.

Sully

brendansmith wrote: »

In short, yes.

After that disaster of a Feedback thread you gave, I wouldn't pay much attention to your comments on the site. You dont understand basic internet forum rules. /shrrugs

Sully

Meatwad wrote: »

I don't really have an opinion of the mods either way, however I have noticed that the type of posting has changed dramatically on the waterford boards over the last few months.I used to check out the waterford boards the whole time to get the gossip going around the town as I hardly ever venture into waterford or hear much about whats going on.It was great for that.That type of post has almost disappeared from the board, and has been replaced with what echo was saying about, just the asking prices or wheres the best restaurant posts.Now either nothing has been happening around the town or there is a reason why people aren't posting.I'm not saying that it has to do with the mods but it could be a possibility going on the general posts recently.These posts also explain why none of the 20 posts on the front page are locked as the majority of them are just people asking simple questions and aren't exactly great topics for discussion,where people could possibly post something to incur banning or locking etc.

I agree its quietened down. If we could work together to try kick start a few interesting discussion topics then maybe we can draw people back in? I have a feeling some users are peeved at the way we handled the traveller threads and not allowing people to rant and rave and do what they want. I was initially heavy handed but I think we loosened the ropes a bit on how to deal with it since muffler and takola came (Fajitas! included but hes stepped down now).

We do our best to allow room for a bit more freedom in threads going off topic a tad but only within reason. When it was becoming an issue, we created the off topic thread which wasn't used.

Its a great shame that posting has changed so much, I used to love checking in and getting a bit of news about the town before it appeared on the radio or newspaper, or even the stuff that wasn't reported.Example being of the coverage given to downes when it went up in flames.Heard more about it on boards than anywhere else and saw some interesting pics and stuff.

Wasn't that long ago though.

At the end of the day though, I think some people take it way too seriously.So what if you get banned or warned, it's more than likely nothing personal.At the worst its an over enthusiastic mod.

Iv had a fair share of abuse from people when they are banned or infracted for clear breach of rules. Some go as far as making death threats. :rolleyes: Only a very very small few mind.

And at the end of the day , while boards can be interesting at times , its not as if its the best thing online , the majority of the posts are mundane, stupid rants or intellectual black holes(just as the majority of my posts are).If people aren't happy with it, just don't use boards anymore.Set up your own forum or do something constructive.

A lot of people would disagree with the above. Maybe you should look around a bit more - Boards has *plenty* of non-rant/boring/black hole posts. Some great discussions to be had on Boards, serious ones.

brendansmith

Sully wrote: »

After that disaster of a Feedback thread you gave, I wouldn't pay much attention to your comments on the site. You dont understand basic internet forum rules. /shrrugs

What are you talking about?

Dragan

Houseswap1 wrote: »

Juat a general question to the members, In a recent thrend out of 25 posts 10 were from moderaters backing each other up,

This is a great site with great information, but its getting very quite lately.

I cant help but feel people wont post because they feel they cant air there views and opinions without being moderated. I understand certain things have to be deleted due to legal reasons and all that but its seems like a dictatorship latly.

As a side note i wonder how long this thrent will last!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Look, everything about this post says "fight the powah!". You might not mean it too, but it does. It basically looks like you have no real interest in boards.ie outside of proving whatever point you have, no matter how wrong, about how boards is run.

We are all aware of the system, Mods look after Forums, CMod look after entire Catagories, SMods look after everything and then you have the Admins, what we like to call "the big dicks".

They have an a plan for boards.ie, a way that they want to the community to be run and the normally do a pretty fantastic job of sending the message down the line as to how they want Forums and boards.ie overall to be ran.

They have a serious vested financial interest in this, so anyone who thinks they are not keeping a close eye on it is a fool.

Now then, what you need to do is appreciated that boards.ie is run in a certain manner and you may simply be posting in a way that goes against that manner.

I don't buy the whole "complaints fall on deaf ears". They don't, you PM a Mod, get no reply? Take it to Feedback of the Helpdesk. I never see one of these threads that is actually WORTH the response without something from Dev, Seamus, Gordon or all three in it. People are available to deal with your issues and to answers your questions, you simply need to appreciate that in the way that boards.ie is being run....you may just be the problem.

I don't find that people get banned for nothing. Sure, sometimes punishments are harsh and are rethought, but that is simply because Mods are human and chances are the person who is dealing with you is also trying to deal with their own life as well.

I remember when i first started i was banned from PI from Gordon. I thought it was a bull**** ban so i PM'd him and he explained the why to me and i thought "****, he is right, i'm a cock" and i started to post differently in PI.

On boards.ie, from Forum to Forum, you will find a different style of Moderator and it is normally based on what THAT forum needs to run as smoothly as possible.

There are things that we don't allow to be posted on boards, if these are posted you get banned. There are ways we do not allow people to act on boards, if you act in this way you get banned.

It's really that simple. It's not a problem with boards.ie , it's an issue with your interpretation of the rules and inability to act like you should.

99% of the time, this is the case.

WhoWhenWhere?

Dragan wrote: »

99% of the time, this is the case.

Of what time?

trout

WhoWhenWhere? wrote: »

Of what time?

Those thankfully rare enough times where mods take an action like warning, infraction, or banning a user who doesn't follow the rules.

A little courtesy goes a long way. Welcome to boards.

Dragan

WhoWhenWhere? wrote: »

Of what time?

"the time", a generic turn of phrase to imply....well....all the time.;)

Look, the simply fact of the matter is that the vast majority of user posts made on boards will never need to be moderated. A very small percentage will be, and within that percentage there will also be a very small percentage of Moderator error.

It's not a bad thing, it's a case of "everyone makes mistakes". And before people jump on that i have seen that very SAME argument applied to posters when it has been decided to make punishments less severe than they originally would have been.

Most forums have very few rules within the charters and i will happily say that the vast majority of the time, in my honest opinion, the people who shout loudest in feed back about poor Moderation, or the state of boards, or the fact that the rest of the world are facists bastards...are normally the same people who , for whatever reasons of their own, feel that the RULES are wrong and THEY are right.

The simply truth is, rules are rules.

electron

Houseswap1 wrote: »

Also would like to note this is where the mods answers questions about boards.ie so hence there would be alot of mods in this section as they would be regular posters in the waterford section. Hence the reason for the current result poll at the moment.
I wonder would you get the same result if you let the poll run in the waterford section where it would be seing by posters of whom its directed at. Just a tought

+1 (Y)

i suggest each forum should have it's own feedback subforum.
and to get this particular poll right, i think the best bet would be placing it up at the top of the boards and asking everyone.

Sully

electron wrote: »

+1 (Y)

i suggest each forum should have it's own feedback subforum.
and to get this particular poll right, i think the best bet would be placing it up at the top of the boards and asking everyone.

A Feedback sub forum would be a disaster and mess. There are many advantages to having a "one for all" feedback thread.

As for the generic poll - the site admin has already indicated (not in this thread but in another) that this is not the appropriate way to carry out such a poll. Best thing would to be analysis statistics over a period of time and see if there has been growth or a decline in membership/posting. It would seem a growth has occurred and the recent winning of awards would seem to backup this. Furthermore, 9/10 mods indicate when posters complain in the forum that the Feedback forum is for such Feedback and they can PM them. So, the users are aware of such a forum to air any grievances. In my experience, a very very select few do this. When they do its usually a small percentage of people with genuine and civil Feedback who have their issues addressed immediately. Then you have a large percentage, like the cases mentioned in this thread, where the moderator was indeed correct in his actions not just because the site admins want it that way but because its how it *has* to be run for a site with such large volume.

Problem with a large site like boards is you are always going to get groups of users who are not happy. If the site was as bad as they are making out, the outcry would be far far worse.

Overheal

electron wrote: »

i suggest each forum should have it's own feedback subforum.

That sounds like a major headache, both from a site development standpoint and getting any attention. Also sounds very needless; feedback isnt overwhelmed or anything.

Only a few forums frequently seem to require feedback threads (politics, soccer, etc) and those can happily be held here. If you need to draw attention to a thread here the mod of a forum can always place a sticky saying "hey read this thread over in feedback please"... and they do.

sceptre

electron wrote: »

i suggest each forum should have it's own feedback subforum.

There are two logistical problems with that. Firstly, it would mean doubling the amount of forums, which would mean a massive increase in the amount of monitoring that would need to take place. Secondly, if each feedback forum was a subforum of what it was providing feedback on, it would remove the right of people who had been banned from the forum to contribute or put their case forward (user-rights travel downwards and while people could be specifically added to give them rights to the feedback subforum after they had been banned, that could create a nightmare for moderators). It's as important for banned users, particularly the temp-banned, to be able to give feedback as it is for the ones who haven't.

I can see where you're coming from (I think) but from a logistical point of view, I reckon that's a non-starter.

Most forum charters clearly mention that all Feedback goes in the Feedback forum. They all should do, or at least clearly mention its existence and purpose. Additionally, usually when I'm warning or banning someone from the forums I moderate I mention in the PM sent that the Feedback forum is available if they want to complain, for accountability and a right of appeal if nothing else.

corkstudent

It's perhaps not so much being overmoderated as poorly moderated. The main problem is that the members as a whole are far too complacent and just want to get along, and don't pay much heed to how poorly the place is run.

I do not understand why there are twice as many people thinking that this board is not strict or could be stricter than not.

Have these people ever been to any other forums? The way boards does things is very authoritarian compared to other forums - and even other forums can be very bad for overmoderation.

Kiera

corkstudent wrote: »

It's perhaps not so much being overmoderated as poorly moderated. The main problem is that the members as a whole are far too complacent and just want to get along, and don't pay much heed to how poorly the place is run.

I do not understand why there are twice as many people thinking that this board is not strict or could be stricter than not.

Have these people ever been to any other forums? The way boards does things is very authoritarian compared to other forums - and even other forums can be very bad for overmoderation.

Oh look its Ranty McRanterson again. Give it up and ride out your ban ffs.

electron

corkstudent wrote: »

The main problem is that the members as a whole are far too complacent and just want to get along, and don't pay much heed to how poorly the place is run.

I do not understand why there are twice as many people thinking that this board is not strict or could be stricter than not.

Have these people ever been to any other forums? The way boards does things is very authoritarian compared to other forums - and even other forums can be very bad for overmoderation.

quite true, as a matter of fact.
there's way too many things you're not allowed to mention on the boards. questions you can't ask. etc

EDIT: im not saying the place is being poorly moderated. (deleted that part of the quote.) it's rather just the set of rules in place.