Greens: The Biggest threat Ireland faces today

jochenstacker

The Greens.
On the announcement that Dell is to cut almost 2000 jobs:
To increase Irelands attractiveness to US investors (too lazy to look in Europe, sadly a disease that has afflicted the government for some time now), Ireland must become greener.
I.e. carbon tax on everything.
Yeah, that'll work.
The Greens have proven themselves to be deluded b*stards who now dance around the flaming ruins of Irelands economy laughing and jeering.
Only once we're back in the 19th century and no one has a car or central heating and the last of the foreign devils (investors) have been chased from our green shores, will they be happy.
We'll be living in straw lined holes in the ground with the only source of energy being our own feces and drive bicycles made from cabbage.
The Greens and FF (and any other party in existence in Ireland today) only care to line their own pockets and their cronies ("consultants").
The government only use the greens to come up with excuses to gouge us for more taxes, without there ever being a tangible return.
So, in short: the government, along with their pawns the greens, are the gravest threat the country faces today, nothing, from oil supplies running out to international terrorism, is anywhere near as dangerous.


This post was written in a bit of a temper. Now I've gathered my thoughts, here is some additional stuff:

Nope, this is not a leftist, communist thread at all.
Running a country should have to have the right balance between socialist agendas (caring for the sick and elderly and generally vulnerable) and hard nosed business.
Problem is that the government seems to be filled with cronies, liars, conmen and people generally concerned only with pulling their friends and relatives on board.
This then results in frankly brain-dead and retarded ideas such as transferring all rail-freight onto the roads because "there's no profit in it".
Not building a rail-link to the airport for the same reason and generally not opening rail lines that are BADLY needed, such as Limerick to Shannon and Galway. (if that one ever opens I will EAT MY SHOES!).
And of course just generally providing public transport that makes sense, links up and has integrated ticketing that serves another purpose than making more cronies rich.
Of course not, there isn't a single country in the free world that makes money on it's public transport or rail freight, these things exist to provide a service to the public and keep millions of tons of freights of our "excellent" roadwork. And, of course, the fact that keeping thousands of people and tons of freight of the road will prevent damage that will cost 4 times as much to fix than it would cost to provide these services in the first place.
Healthcare should be all about prevention in the first place, providing screening for everyone for many diseases that will cost much more later on when it's too late to do anything about them.
Many experts have been screaming it for the past 10 years:
ireland is pricing itself out of the market and all foreign companies will eventually run screaming out of here.
But everyone was too busy gouging as much money for themselves to listen.
It even pains me to say it, but forward planning is not one of the strong points of the government and that means everyone who has been in power for the past 10-15 years or longer.

But what really makes me mad is the fact that IRELAND DESERVES BETTER!
There is no shortage of smart people who could do a better job running this country. Of course, a howlermonkey in the latest stages of insanity brought on by Syphilis could do a better job running this country.
There are bits of potatoe peel floating down the Liffey that could do a better job at running this country.
But more importantly: There are scores of brilliant people that could do an infinitely better job than the current rabble of crooks, liars, thieves and conmen and women. (Where's MY €40k?)

One of my theories is that anyone who was any good had to leave Ireland in the 70's and 80's, leaving behind people whose only skill was to have sufficient pull.
They have created for themselves an ivory tower from which they cannot be expelled.
If we want to save Ireland it is vital to pull down the excisting power structure ENTIRELY and replace the rot with something that has been planned well for a change.
There is hope, but it is not to be found within the government.

And the Greens are the worst, because, like the PD's they have been immediatly absorbed into the FF machine and will end up on the other side
looking like some Greens that have been eaten once already.

Timans

jochenstacker wrote: »

The Greens.
On the announcement that Dell is to cut almost 2000 jobs:
To increase Irelands attractiveness to US investors (too lazy to look in Europe, sadly a disease that has afflicted the government for some time now), Ireland must become greener.
I.e. carbon tax on everything.
Yeah, that'll work.
The Greens have proven themselves to be deluded b*stards who now dance around the flaming ruins of Irelands economy laughing and jeering.
Only once we're back in the 19th century and no one has a car or central heating and the last of the foreign devils (investors) have been chased from our green shores, will they be happy.
We'll be living in straw lined holes in the ground with the only source of energy being our own feces and drive bicycles made from cabbage.
The Greens and FF (and any other party in existence in Ireland today) only care to line their own pockets and their cronies ("consultants").
The government only use the greens to come up with excuses to gouge us for more taxes, without there ever being a tangible return.
So, in short: the government, along with their pawns the greens, are the gravest threat the country faces today, nothing, from oil supplies running out to international terrorism, is anywhere near as dangerous.

I don't agree with anything you have just said but my god, that post was genius.

P Davis

jochenstacker wrote: »

The Greens.
On the announcement that Dell is to cut almost 2000 jobs:
To increase Irelands attractiveness to US investors (too lazy to look in Europe, sadly a disease that has afflicted the government for some time now), Ireland must become greener.
I.e. carbon tax on everything.
Yeah, that'll work.
The Greens have proven themselves to be deluded b*stards who now dance around the flaming ruins of Irelands economy laughing and jeering.
Only once we're back in the 19th century and no one has a car or central heating and the last of the foreign devils (investors) have been chased from our green shores, will they be happy.
We'll be living in straw lined holes in the ground with the only source of energy being our own feces and drive bicycles made from cabbage.
The Greens and FF (and any other party in existence in Ireland today) only care to line their own pockets and their cronies ("consultants").
The government only use the greens to come up with excuses to gouge us for more taxes, without there ever being a tangible return.
So, in short: the government, along with their pawns the greens, are the gravest threat the country faces today, nothing, from oil supplies running out to international terrorism, is anywhere near as dangerous.

here here and bravo to you my good man !

AlekSmart

Bicycles made from cabbage....Thats IT !!!
Have you approached the IDA for a research grant for this...? Cos you better do it quick-sharp before those damn Poles get there first !!!!

Must be a contestant for Post of the Year 2009

ejmaztec

It's the greed agenda not the green agenda that's laid waste to the Irish economy. I think there's been a typo.

piby

Timans wrote: »

I don't agree with anything you have just said but my god, that post was genius.

+1

Nodin

AlekSmart wrote: »

Bicycles made from cabbage....Thats IT !!!
Have you approached the IDA for a research grant for this...? Cos you better do it quick-sharp before those damn Poles get there first !!!!

Must be a contestant for Post of the Year 2009

Cabbage? Whats wrong with the greatest ever Irish invention...the Spud.

ionix5891

Nodin wrote: »

Cabbage? Whats wrong with the greatest ever Irish invention...the Spud.

wasn't potato imported from south America?

Capt'n Midnight

ejmaztec wrote: »

It's the greed agenda not the green agenda that's laid waste to the Irish economy. I think there's been a typo.

agree


have you checked up on Dell to see how green they are ?

we import over 100% of our fuel needs ( if you take into account the NI's crossing over for cheap petrol ) If russia and the ukraine have another hissy fit we're screwed

on the other hand we do have enough wind / wave power and the best climate in europe to grow coppice/other biomass so that we should be an exporter of power , and an interconnector to the UK would mean we could rely on them during the few days a year we get good weather.


every month during the peak of the boom we were importing enough SUV's to offset all the windpower

Économiste Monétaire

Discover Pigouvian taxes.

Nodin

ionix5891 wrote: »

wasn't potato imported from south America?

Revisionist lies.

ionix5891

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

agree


have you checked up on Dell to see how green they are ?

we import over 100% of our fuel needs ( if you take into account the NI's crossing over for cheap petrol ) If russia and the ukraine have another hissy fit we're screwed

on the other hand we do have enough wind / wave power and the best climate in europe to grow coppice/other biomass so that we should be an exporter of power , and an interconnector to the UK would mean we could rely on them during the few days a year we get good weather.


every month during the peak of the boom we were importing enough SUV's to offset all the windpower

theres no interconnector to the UK, its been on the plans since forever


see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_West_Interconnector

and
http://www.interconnector.ie/?


planned capacity of only 500MW, Ireland uses about 10x times that during peak times

I agree we need more windpower but we have no way of storing the energy or transporting it to EU when the wind blows

You cant run a factory or a hospital or a datacenter on windpower as it doesnt provide a reliable baseload and the Grid in Ireland is currently fairly sucky, main problem with windfarms is not building them but connecting them up and wind not blowing when you need it most

Darsad

Great Post agree 110 %
I for one will actively campaign against the Greens in the next local , Eu and general elections. This will include removing and returning all their posters and flyers i can get a hold of, unless of course they are made of recycled cabbage which is what Gormless normally spouts !!CLOWNS !!!

CCCP^

I thought this was some kind of Communist threat from Greenland ffs

Danuogma

Come the next election the Greens will get wiped out like the PDs did. I won't shed a tear. That said, all the other sideshow freaks are every bit as clueless.

Liam Byrne

ejmaztec wrote: »

It's the greed agenda not the green agenda that's laid waste to the Irish economy. I think there's been a typo.

I've no problem with the overal aim to stop us polluting the planet, but I do have a problem with our own "Green Party", who abandon some of their key policies the moment they're in the door, and then introduce other ones that do nothing except raise the cost of living here and line the Government's pockets

e.g. a "green" parking space tax of €200 to discourage people from driving to work.

WE DON'T HAVE A DECENT PUBLIC TRANSPORT INFRASTRUCTURE OUTSIDE OF DUBLIN, FFS! How is the average Joe Soap going to get to work ?

Introduce the alternatives FIRST, and THEN tax people if they don't use them.

And whatever about the pros and cons of private transport, most of the pollution in this country is because cars are stuck in crazy traffic in cities most of the time! Removing the traffic jams and letting people actually drive from A to B would actually IMPROVE matters!

Of course, so would actually building housing estates and business parks near each other, rather than putting massive retail parks on roads that were designed as ring roads, to alleviate traffic, rather than opportunities for landowners and builders and the rest of FF's buddies to make another killing and thereby INCREASE traffic jams! :rolleyes:

Doing it backwards (tax first, THEN implementing alternatives) and worse still, then copping out on providing the alternatives, is just a money-making racket and makes people bitter towards the whole agenda.

Dob74

We may as well be prepared for when oil runs out. Weather it be in 20,50,100 years. Give the greens a chance, at least they stand for something unlike FF&FG

ionix5891

Dob74 wrote: »

We may as well be prepared for when oil runs out. Weather it be in 20,50,100 years. Give the greens a chance, at least they stand for something unlike FF&FG

energy policy is only one of the many things voters worry about...


anyways I dont see them proposing nuclear, so they are not serious about Ireland using clean energy, wind power as a large part of the solution yes but it wont work as a cheap and reliable source of base power, and forget about biomass even if you plant every bit of land in this country with biocrops you still wont meet all the current demands for energy

ejmaztec

It will be interesting to see whether there is a lull in the melting of the polar ice-caps as a result of the global recession. It may finally answer the question as to whether global warming is a man-made, or natural phenomenon.

If the latter is proven, then the Greens will be surplus to requirements (not that many people don't think this anyway).

Capt'n Midnight

ionix5891 wrote:

I agree we need more windpower but we have no way of storing the energy or transporting it to EU when the wind blows

You cant run a factory or a hospital or a datacenter on windpower as it doesnt provide a reliable baseload and the Grid in Ireland is currently fairly sucky, main problem with windfarms is not building them but connecting them up and wind not blowing when you need it most

you can store electricity with pumped storage , we have no shortage of mountains beside the sea along the west coast
biomass can be stored and we have a lot of poor land that would be good for trees
storing compressed air in the kinsale gas fields is probably a no-no not for technical reasons but that we are so dependent on gas that it's better used as gas store

wave and tidal turbines and pumped storage and biomass could contribute much of the base load, the interconnector would be used to export/import wind power

jochenstacker

Alternative energy is vital, but some conventional sources are indispensible too.
The nuclear option will HAVE to be considered.
And don't kid yourselves, here in Ireland you have been using nuclear power from the UK for decades.
Either build a nuclear station or buy more from your friendly neighbours the french and english. You drink their beer, drive their cars and watch their footbal. Don't fool yourself into thinking this is an island.
Nuclear fusion, fuel cells, the list goes on, these things will feature in the energy market in the future.

briainod

great post and thread-title Jochen. Too bad we gave away our gas reserves in the 70's due to gov't incompetence and lack of interest in future generations, the voice of the greens was nowhere as unpopular as it now since they've been embraced by dail eireann. If not the greens, then whom?

monellia

Do you not think that the economic problems facing us at this time call for greener policies so as to prevent a decline in the future? The economic opportunities that can be made possible by investing in low-carbon energy schemes are vast. Besides reducing our dependence on the costly commodity of oil, it would also result in an abundance of new jobs for the struggling construction industry.
The Greens didn't cause this recession. Leave them alone.

jank

The green party the greatest threat to Ireland?
Are you a zanu FF hack, or Eoghan Haris.

The biggest threat to Ireland is lack of leadership begining with FF and those clowns in charge. We will have over 300,000 people out of work in a few months and this is what you are worried about??

ionix5891

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

you can store electricity with pumped storage , we have no shortage of mountains beside the sea along the west coast
biomass can be stored and we have a lot of poor land that would be good for trees
storing compressed air in the kinsale gas fields is probably a no-no not for technical reasons but that we are so dependent on gas that it's better used as gas store

wave and tidal turbines and pumped storage and biomass could contribute much of the base load, the interconnector would be used to export/import wind power

I used to work for ESB Power Generation, and been up to Turlogh Hill, Ireland's only pumped storage station @ about only 300MW, its quite an impressive place (thing big tunnels and cavern and loads of big machines) to say the least and was built back in the 60s

If we build more of these that would be great but unfortunately there are no plans or planning applications for more pumped storage stations, tho there are no shortage of new windmills coming on line

As I said wind power is great (and thanks to government grants financially viable) but its not gonna solve this country's energy needs since as with everything in this country we do things sideways

jochenstacker wrote: »

Alternative energy is vital, but some conventional sources are indispensible too.
The nuclear option will HAVE to be considered.
And don't kid yourselves, here in Ireland you have been using nuclear power from the UK for decades.
Either build a nuclear station or buy more from your friendly neighbours the french and english. You drink their beer, drive their cars and watch their footbal. Don't fool yourself into thinking this is an island.
Nuclear fusion, fuel cells, the list goes on, these things will feature in the energy market in the future.

I completely agree with you, But we the Irish once again made a cockup, by voting No on the Lisbon Treaty and probably the result of the next Lisbon Treaty will be the same No

that would mean Ireland pulls out of the Euroatom research, that includes ITER (fusion research prototype plan)

So once the rest of the world discovers fusion technology good luck trying to get the technology of them for which we didnt contribute in research to or have experienced engineers to work with

The attitude to nuclear in this country is retarded, only if people knew how much radioactive **** goes up the chimneys of the dirty coal and peat and oil plants here in ireland (thats beside the greenhouse gases)

As an engineer i would rather live in a vicinity of a nuclear plant than anywhere near a coal plant

.

Danuogma

jank wrote: »

The green party the greatest threat to Ireland?
Are you a zanu FF hack, or Eoghan Haris.

When the Greens first got into the sack with Zanu FF I thought they were employing the old "if you can't beat them, join them" stratagy. They took it a step further, they didn't just join them, they became them and adopted the same contemptuous demeanor. A Zanu FF hack is not all that different from the average Green in government, they work for the same team.

ismynametoolong

With the snots ratings at an all time low of 2 % hopefully its the start of their demise with this recession I reckon there will be no more comfort votes for them at the polls next time out.

grahamo

I hate the fecking greens!
When are they gonna wake up? I have to go to work every day. If there was decent public transport I would use it. There isn't so I NEED a car and the greens decide to tax the sh*t out of me without any alternative being available.
I wouldn't mind so much if their extra taxes were going towards public transport or renewable energy but there not!

CtrlSource

ismynametoolong wrote: »

With the snots ratings at an all time low of 2 % hopefully its the start of their demise with this recession I reckon there will be no more comfort votes for them at the polls next time out.

Comfort votes?

grahamo wrote: »

I hate the fecking greens!
When are they gonna wake up? I have to go to work every day. If there was decent public transport I would use it. There isn't so I NEED a car and the greens decide to tax the sh*t out of me without any alternative being available.
I wouldn't mind so much if their extra taxes were going towards public transport or renewable energy but there not!

Perhaps you might explain why you think every successive Irish government has marginally increased Road Tax since it was introduced? (i.e. it would always go up marginally regardless of the parties in gov). Did you expect the Green Party in government to reduce tax on your mode of transport? Nobody's taxing the sh1t out of you.

Your point about where the tax is going is a good one, but also applies to a lot of tax revenues that go to central government, not just taxes on transportation. i think you're absolutely right that more tax revenue should be earmarked for specific areas than is currently the practice

BroomBurner

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0113/politics.html

Short story, I know, but at least it's showing the Greens have their heads screwed on. After all, didn't Bertie "create" three new junior ministership positions while in power during the time he was made aware of the worsening economic crisis?

20goto10

Some people miss the point. We need to be self sufficient on energy. Its a bold dream which has to start somewhere and that involves a transitional stage - which is always going to get up peoples noses.

But as a Green myself what I think they are doing wrong is jumping ahead with the Green agenda without having a green strategy in place first. For example, lower VRT and VAT on diesel cars and fuel. I mean encouraging people to drive diesel can hardly be called green!! Do they actually believe being Green is all about lower CO2? They do have their hands tied somewhat because they have to lower CO2 emissions and fast. Another example is light bulbs. Is there such thing as a 40 watt (equvilent) energy saving light bulb? I sure as hell can't find one and anything stonger causes my lamp shade to smell like burning vinyl.

Basically, as a Green I'm really, really disappointed with how they go about implementing their policies of removing pollutants without having anything Green to replace them with. I think getting into bed with Fiana Fail was a really bad idea and has tarnished their name beyond repair.