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Is it time the polish went home

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    #392
    drakshug
    Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭drakshug


    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    Including Thatcherites...
    I hope you aren't calling me a Thatcherite? I was on the receiving end of Thatcherism. She didn't show much mercy to Scotland. Being on the dole and having to hang on to a job showed me the values of hard work, not Toryism. Don't get the wrong end of the stick. When that bitch dies I'll gladly dance on her grave but she did show us that jobs aren't for life.


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    #393
    Serenity Now!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    drakshug wrote: »
    I hope you aren't calling me a Thatcherite?
    Erm...no, I'm not.


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    #394
    drakshug
    Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭drakshug


    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    Erm...no, I'm not.
    :)
    Tht's ok then:p
    And the whole of the Baltics have kamikaze drivers but Polish roads are the scariest.


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    #395
    Serenity Now!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    drakshug wrote: »
    Polish roads are the scariest.

    I think Ireland beats it hands down. I've never seen so many friggin idiots behind the wheel as in this country.


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    #396
    _Nuno_
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭_Nuno_


    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    I think Ireland beats it hands down. I've never seen so many friggin idiots behind the wheel as in this country.

    You should try driving in Portugal :)

    Greece and Italy are supposed to be "fun" as well.


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    #397
    Serenity Now!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    _Nuno_ wrote: »
    You should try driving in Portugal :)

    Greece and Italy are supposed to be "fun" as well.
    Greece I've done for sure. Nowhere in Athens compares to Westmoreland St in Dublin or the outskirts of Limerick on a friday evening :D

    Sorry for sidetrack. One of my pet peeves about coming back here is the sad state of road worthiness of Irish drivers.

    I'll get me coat...


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    #398
    drakshug
    Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭drakshug


    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    I think Ireland beats it hands down. I've never seen so many friggin idiots behind the wheel as in this country.
    It aint exactly the drivers in Poland, it's the state of the roads.
    As for here. I think it has got better after the L plate ruling. Still, a lot of drivers on the road here don't seem to judge their speed by conditions. I still feel safer here than in Lithuania, they all think they are schumachers.


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    #399
    Geogregor
    Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭Geogregor


    drakshug wrote: »
    :)
    Tht's ok then:p
    And the whole of the Baltics have kamikaze drivers but Polish roads are the scariest.

    I have to agree. I'm honestly scarred when I have to drive in my country ;)
    I did drive on crazy LA freeways, I managed to drive safely among the NYC taxis and London black cabs, I survived mountain driving in Spain and encountered rude French drivers, but whenever I hit rural road in Poland I need special mental preparation.
    It is like a lottery. You never know what is waiting around the corner. Speeding truck on the narrow lane, drunk cyclist, pothole size of the football pitch, driver who thinks he is Schumacher but has abilities of my parrot or even a flying piano
    Ok I exaggerate a bit,
    you rarely encounter a piano ;)


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    #400
    eoin5
    Registered Users Posts: 2,141 ✭✭✭eoin5


    Geogregor wrote: »
    I have to agree. I'm honestly scarred when I have to drive in my country ;)
    I did drive on crazy LA freeways, I managed to drive safely among the NYC taxis and London black cabs, I survived mountain driving in Spain and encountered rude French drivers, but whenever I hit rural road in Poland I need special mental preparation.
    It is like a lottery. You never know what is waiting around the corner. Speeding truck on the narrow lane, drunk cyclist, pothole size of the football pitch, driver who thinks he is Schumacher but has abilities of my parrot or even a flying piano
    Ok I exaggerate a bit,
    you rarely encounter a piano ;)

    Once we had a Polish friend of my uncles stay with us for a few days. This was in east clare in the Sliabh Aughty mts so no matter how bad the roads are there they cant be any worse than those. We let him drive once, I can honestly say I've never see such dangerous driving. My uncle ended up shouting at him in polish to stop. If everyone over there drives like him it must be a lot fun getting from A to B :D


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    #401
    Volthar
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭Volthar


    BroomBurner wrote: »
    Hold on a second there, we're not allowed to generalise about other nationalities, but we can generalise about the Irish by calling us all lazy?

    Remarkable double standard.

    Good point BroomBurner! We should be talking about individuals and not about whole nationalities.

    I personally think the Irish who built this economy 20 years ago and worked their asses off 12 hours a day lost their edge somewhere... and especially some of their children became a bit too laid back. I think it was just much easier to hire some eastern European to do the dirty work while they enjoyed brand new convertibles, houses in Spain and all the package that came with the Celtic Tiger. I hope these businessman are still able to recover what is left of their businesses so we all (Irish and immigrants) will have a future in this country.

    On a final note i would like to mention something that is only my own observation as employer. Sadly "Monday sickness", timekeeping issues and general lack of interest in work apply mostly to my Irish staff. Brits, Germans, Poles and even Spanish that work with me are much more disciplined... Why?


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    #402
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Volthar wrote: »
    On a final note i would like to mention something that is only my own observation as employer. Sadly "Monday sickness", timekeeping issues and general lack of interest in work apply mostly to my Irish staff. Brits, Germans, Poles and even Spanish that work with me are much more disciplined... Why?
    When you're on your home turf you are far less worried about losing your job. Anyone who's lived and worked abroad is acutely aware of the fact that you don't have the same social support network, family and connections you had back home. You may not even be eligible for social welfare. So you take greater care to stay employed.

    You get the "our people are spoilt and lazy" discussion in every country you go to, TBH.


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    #403
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    do not know about that.

    Many Irish who have kids + mortgages are trying very hard to hold on to their jobs - many of these who are self employed are seeing their pay cut drastically this last 6 months or so. I know one who will not shop now anywhere that employs polish people in the town he lives in. He went through hard times before the polish came here + has worked hard for decades.


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    #404
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    jimmmy wrote: »
    Many Irish who have kids + mortgages are trying very hard to hold on to their jobs - many of these who are self employed are seeing their pay cut drastically this last 6 months or so. I know one who will not shop now anywhere that employs polish people in the town he lives in. He went through hard times before the polish came here + has worked hard for decades.
    That makes no sense. Or he's just not very bright.

    If he's self employed, it is at worst his self-employed competition who he should be sore at, not employees of a shop. And even then, if he's been undercut by competition (foreign or otherwise), that's business and he really should accept that like a grown up and become more competitive.


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    #405
    drakshug
    Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭drakshug


    jimmmy wrote: »
    do not know about that.

    Many Irish who have kids + mortgages are trying very hard to hold on to their jobs - many of these who are self employed are seeing their pay cut drastically this last 6 months or so. I know one who will not shop now anywhere that employs polish people in the town he lives in. He went through hard times before the polish came here + has worked hard for decades.

    He must find it hard to buy anything then. Petrol, food, papers, a meal..... At the end of the day such a practice is probably harming the Irish retailer more.


    As for the Monday sickness points. I see a lot of that amongst a sector, the younger age group, but that happens in every country. Immigrants do tend to take less time off. They are starting from scratch and feel they have more to prove. They have less of a support network, no roots. I haven't had a day sick since I came here, haven't claimed anything and spend all my money here. I buy Irish where possible and so do the others I know from the Uk, Lithuania and Poland. Most of them aren't going back, they have settled here and contribute as much as their Irish neighbours. Those that were here for the money have gone home or to Norway and Spain.


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    #406
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    That makes no sense. Or he's just not very bright.

    If he's self employed, it is at worst his self-employed competition who he should be sore at, not employees of a shop. And even then, if he's been undercut by competition (foreign or otherwise), that's business and he really should accept that like a grown up and become more competitive.

    He is actually quite bright, well above average, and is well educated.

    His self-employed competition / everyone in his industry is feeling the pinch " big time" as well. He is as "competitive" as can be in fact ....and is finding it very difficult to make ends meet. He will not shop in a shop that employs polish people ...I think some Polish people let him down rather than a Polish person displacing an Irish friend of his out of a job.


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    #407
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,786 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    jimmmy wrote: »
    He is actually quite bright, well above average, and is well educated.

    His self-employed competition / everyone in his industry is feeling the pinch " big time" as well. He is as "competitive" as can be in fact ....and is finding it very difficult to make ends meet. He will not shop in a shop that employs polish people ...I think some Polish people let him down rather than a Polish person displacing an Irish friend of his out of a job.

    What does he do, case every shop for foreigners? So he's sore at a few individuals of a particular nationality and decides to take his pain out on others. Those shops he boycotts are probably owned by Irish and employ Irish too as well as other nationalities. They buy goods and services from businesses who are probably owned by Irish and also employ Irish. He's only one person so I doubt he'll have a noticable impact but I hope he soon awakes to the futility of his principles.


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    #408
    hayyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭hayyman


    Dragous wrote: »
    Is it time the polish went home. all they've done is taken their wages and spent them at home. they've contributed nothing to the economy. And they are robbing our social welfare scheme. there are a few working with me here in limerick part time and they say that they won't leave now that dell has left as they can work a few hours here and then draw the dole. I don't mean to offend anyone with this thread. has the problem not been that ireland was too relaxed with out migration laws as enforced by the eu
    The idea was to let people in from the eu countries to work in the jobs that Irish people were supposed to not want to do but all that happened was Irish people lost there jobs to cheaper labour.Although does people did spend some of there money in this country now that there is no jobs and no money in this country should this country have to support them and pay them social welfare.


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    #409
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    jimmmy wrote: »
    He will not shop in a shop that employs polish people ...I think some Polish people let him down...
    Let's hope he is never "let down" by an Irish person...


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    #410
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    hayyman wrote: »
    The idea was to let people in from the eu countries to work in the jobs that Irish people were supposed to not want to do but all that happened was Irish people lost there jobs to cheaper labour.
    Not true. At a time when we had record highs of immigration, we also had a record number of people in employment.
    hayyman wrote: »
    Although does people did spend some of there money in this country now that there is no jobs and no money in this country should this country have to support them and pay them social welfare.
    Yes - they're entitled to it.


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    #411
    drakshug
    Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭drakshug


    hayyman wrote: »
    The idea was to let people in from the eu countries to work in the jobs that Irish people were supposed to not want to do but all that happened was Irish people lost there jobs to cheaper labour.Although does people did spend some of there money in this country now that there is no jobs and no money in this country should this country have to support them and pay them social welfare.

    Am I wrong in saying there is a minimum wage agreement in force? If you lost your job to cheaper labour, why didn't you work at that lower price? They could live on minimum but native Irish can't???
    That whole immigrant stealing jobs argument is a fallacy. As the previous poster pointed out, there was low unemployment. Ireland needed the immigrants due to a labour shortage.
    As for social welfare - All EU citizens are entitled to claim social welfare in any EU state when they satisfy that states requirements. They paid the stamp so they get the welfare. Maybe we should stop Irish in the UK and western Europe having the chance to do likewise because that is what would happen. You stop reciprocal payments and then your own citizens suffer and there are a lot of Irish abroad in the EU....not a bad idea in these economic climes. Of course there aren't that many Irish in Poland.
    Anyway you'll find that a lot of these immigrants have to wait months for benefit whilst the social check back with their home countries. I've been waiting over a year for child benefit for two kids.
    It all seems to be a case of finding a scapegoat now that times are getting tougher. Poles don't have the right to vote in Dail elections. You brought this upon yourselves.


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    #412
    Geogregor
    Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭Geogregor


    drakshug wrote: »
    Am I wrong in saying there is a minimum wage agreement in force? If you lost your job to cheaper labour, why didn't you work at that lower price? They could live on minimum but native Irish can't???

    In fact very few immigrants work for national minimum. It would be probably just enough to survive. Not to have decent life for what many of us came over here.
    Only Poles which I know here in London who work for minimum wages are students working here over summer for pocket money or people who get tips (like barmans), or maybe few unlucky cleaners.
    I don't know any construction worker who works for wages even remotely close to the minimum. They get way, way more. I mean they got until yhey had job. Immigrants are usually first to loose job.
    So if you say cheap competition you should know that it might be cheaper, but it is not dirt cheap labour.


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    #413
    drakshug
    Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭drakshug


    Geogregor wrote: »
    In fact very few immigrants work for national minimum. It would be probably just enough to survive. Not to have decent life for what many of us came over here.
    Only Poles which I know here in London who work for minimum wages are students working here over summer for pocket money or people who get tips (like barmans), or maybe few unlucky cleaners.
    I don't know any construction worker who works for wages even remotely close to the minimum. They get way, way more. I mean they got until yhey had job. Immigrants are usually first to loose job.
    So if you say cheap competition you should know that it might be cheaper, but it is not dirt cheap labour.
    Hmm, most of the females I know are working restaurants, cafes and shops and that is on minimum and there are some guys doing that too. Small town Ireland doesn't have high paying jobs unless you travel to the larger towns or cities.


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    #414
    Serenity Now!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    hayyman wrote: »
    The idea was to let people in from the eu countries to work in the jobs that Irish people were supposed to not want to do but all that happened was Irish people lost there jobs to cheaper labour.Although does people did spend some of there money in this country now that there is no jobs and no money in this country should this country have to support them and pay them social welfare.
    Very wrong.
    The "idea" is that if you want something from the EU, you subscribe to its conditions. One of these conditions that you sign up to when you want the benefits of EU membership is freedom of mobility of labour and all taxpayers qualify for what the State offers in benefits be they tax breaks, social benefit etc.
    If you don't want that, then its a case "build yer own f**kin' infrastructure yourself and pay back what you owe".


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    #415
    hayyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭hayyman


    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    Very wrong.
    The "idea" is that if you want something from the EU, you subscribe to its conditions. One of these conditions that you sign up to when you want the benefits of EU membership is freedom of mobility of labour and all taxpayers qualify for what the State offers in benefits be they tax breaks, social benefit etc.
    If you don't want that, then its a case "build yer own f**kin' infrastructure yourself and pay back what you owe".
    I dont owe anything, i work for my living


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    #416
    hayyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭hayyman


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Not true. At a time when we had record highs of immigration, we also had a record number of people in employment.
    Yes - they're entitled to it.
    Even the ones that are back in there own country


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    #417
    hayyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭hayyman


    hayyman wrote: »
    Even the ones that are back in there own country
    So i could go to another eu country work for a year or so then get there social benefits come home and keep claiming benefits from that country


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    #418
    Volthar
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭Volthar


    hayyman wrote: »
    Even the ones that are back in there own country

    They will sure try and it is up to authorities to prevent it. As far as I know one has to turn up in the dole office every few weeks or they will stop payments. I am not sure how about all other benefits but I guess it is similar. The only benefit that you can keep even if you leave the country is your pension. Many German pensioners live now in Spain, Greece and even Ireland. I do not think that any of "post 2004" immigrants have earned Irish pensions yet :)


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    #419
    drakshug
    Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭drakshug


    Volthar wrote: »
    They will sure try and it is up to authorities to prevent it. As far as I know one has to turn up in the dole office every few weeks or they will stop payments. I am not sure how about all other benefits but I guess it is similar. The only benefit that you can keep even if you leave the country is your pension. Many German pensioners live now in Spain, Greece and even Ireland. I do not think that any of "post 2004" immigrants have earned Irish pensions yet :)

    Well.........If Ryanair are still doing the cheap flights.............


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    #420
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    hayyman wrote: »
    Even the ones that are back in there own country
    No.


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    #421
    Geogregor
    Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭Geogregor


    hayyman wrote: »
    Even the ones that are back in there own country

    They get benefits for unemployed which are paid by their local job centres or whatever it is called in each country.
    They have to proved they worked in any EU country minimum for a year. They also have to be ready to accept any job which job centre offers them. Otherwise they loose benefits.
    I'm not sure if money ultimately comes from country where they live or where they worked.
    In fact registrations of people coming back from UK and Ireland are rising sharply in recent weeks.


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