Is it time the polish went home

The Corinthian

hayyman wrote: »

So i could go to another eu country work for a year or so then get there social benefits come home and keep claiming benefits from that country

No. In the case of SW payments, what you can transfer is your unemployment insurance (PRSI) credits, so that if you worked for three years in, say, Germany and returned to Ireland you would be eligible for jobseekers benefit rather than allowance - however you would receive the equivalent SW payments (and conditions) from, and paid by, Ireland rather than transferring the German ones.

If you are in receipt of a German state civil service pension, then the German government still pays that even if you're in Ireland. However if you are in receipt of non-contributory pension, you will get whatever is the going rate in the country you're moving to.

Naturally, not all SW benefits are harmonised, so there are both winners and losers moving from one system to another. Some EU states are more strict about accepting jobs offered, and another difference is that some pay much higher unemployment benefit if you've paid your insurance - but for a finite period (such as 18 months). Personally I prefer this as the current system is a bit of a joke in Ireland - outside of avoiding the paperwork of assessment, you really get bugger all extra for all your PRSI payments.

Finally, there is the question of habitual residence, and this too will affect someone's ability to claim.

Volthar

drakshug wrote: »

Well.........If Ryanair are still doing the cheap flights.............

Cheap flight means about €150 for return ticket (yes tickets to Poland are quite pricy as these are busy routes) and you need to get some sort of accommodation for 2-3 nights. Doing it weekly defeats the purpose. Please do some research before you post anything else

Serenity Now!

hayyman wrote: »

I dont owe anything, i work for my living

It was a referral to those lovely structural loans that Ireland has received since joining the EU and singe european currency.

The Corinthian

Volthar wrote: »

Cheap flight means about €150 for return ticket (yes tickets to Poland are quite pricy as these are busy routes) and you need to get some sort of accommodation for 2-3 nights. Doing it weekly defeats the purpose. Please do some research before you post anything else

This was an issue with people working, in particular with the building trade, when the Dole was transferred into the recipient's bank account. People would sign on in Ireland and work on sites in the UK. The origins of this practice pre-date the bulk of immigration and it was actually Irish citizens who first found this loophole, from what I've been told.

As bank transfers have been discontinued (at least for new applicants) and you have to physically pick up your Dole now, it's no longer viable - unless you have free accommodation in Ireland, and even then, after time and travel costs, it would hardly be worth the bother, TBH.

drakshug

Volthar wrote: »

Cheap flight means about €150 for return ticket (yes tickets to Poland are quite pricy as these are busy routes) and you need to get some sort of accommodation for 2-3 nights. Doing it weekly defeats the purpose. Please do some research before you post anything else

Get an irony or a humour transplant Volthar and don't tell me when or what to post.
As for your point. Don't you think that people who have gone home have friends still here? As far as I know it isn't a weekly sign on and if you are on full benefit and getting it straight to your account, that still means a nice sum left when translated to zloty, lats or litas. When I worked in Lithuania my monthly take home was 400 Euros and I could and still can get a flight in advance for about 100 lats . Do the sums.

The Corinthian

drakshug wrote: »

As far as I know it isn't a weekly sign on and if you are on full benefit and getting it straight to your account, that still means a nice sum left when translated to zloty, lats or litas.

As I pointed out already, the practice of getting the Dole put into your account was discontinued a while back. So they would have to come back to collect it at a post office once a week, which is not really viable - especially if they are working full time.

drakshug

The Corinthian wrote: »

As I pointed out already, the practice of getting the Dole put into your account was discontinued a while back. So they would have to come back to collect it at a post office once a week, which is not really viable - especially if they are working full time.

I stand corrected.
Not really worth it really.

Volthar

drakshug wrote: »

Get an irony or a humour transplant Volthar and don't tell me when or what to post.
As for your point. Don't you think that people who have gone home have friends still here? As far as I know it isn't a weekly sign on and if you are on full benefit and getting it straight to your account, that still means a nice sum left when translated to zloty, lats or litas. When I worked in Lithuania my monthly take home was 400 Euros and I could and still can get a flight in advance for about 100 lats . Do the sums.

Looks like i really need a humor implant Reading it again I do not remember what was my point hehehe Anyway I am not telling you what to post I merely suggested that you support it with some facts. Thanks for giving me an example. However The Corinthian seems to know the system and he claims that it does not go straight to your account but you have to physically pick up your Dole. And true:when you get a cheap flight and stay at your friends there will be still few Euros left to take home...

TBH if I lost my job and for some reason had to move back to Poland I would do everything possible to keep the benefits. After all I paid taxes and PRSI for nearly 7 year. Not mentioning rent, motortax, insurance, Bupa, tv license, broadband, digital tv and so on... (this was to comment o the first post that started this thread). I think I have contributed to the Irish economy enough :P and I do not plan to stop any soon. I think I will stay here for good.

The Corinthian

Volthar wrote: »

Thanks for giving me an example. However The Corinthian seems to know the system and he claims that it does not go straight to your account but you have to physically pick up your Dole.

Well, that's what I've been told, however AFAIK this does not necessarily apply to long term claims (I know one chap, Irish, who has been on the Dole for about 12 years and he still gets it direct to his account) where this was already in place, only with newer ones.

I think I will stay here for good.

Oh dear... you'll upset O'Morris...

drakshug

Volthar wrote: »

Looks like i really need a humor implant Reading it again I do not remember what was my point hehehe Anyway I am not telling you what to post I merely suggested that you support it with some facts. Thanks for giving me an example. However The Corinthian seems to know the system and he claims that it does not go straight to your account but you have to physically pick up your Dole. And true:when you get a cheap flight and stay at your friends there will be still few Euros left to take home...

TBH if I lost my job and for some reason had to move back to Poland I would do everything possible to keep the benefits. After all I paid taxes and PRSI for nearly 7 year. Not mentioning rent, motortax, insurance, Bupa, tv license, broadband, digital tv and so on... (this was to comment o the first post that started this thread). I think I have contributed to the Irish economy enough :P and I do not plan to stop any soon. I think I will stay here for good.

Yeah I was a bit hasty too.

Afetr 7 years here it would be quite a change to up and start all over again. After 12 years abroad, I felt that going back home wasn't really an option - too much had changed. So I came to Ireland. If I had to leave here I'd be well pissed off at losing what I've put in so far. Losing what I'd put in to Lithuania didn't really equate into tangible money.

nortal

drakshug wrote: »

Quite frankly, after reading through this whole thread it is all your own fault.
The Irish have become lazy, used to easy money.
Show me any ****e job where there was an Irish person working? Nope, better off on the social.
I spent 12 years in the Baltics (where they give Scots and Irish jobs) before coming here. Within a few weeks I'd got a job, within a year promotion and I'm in charge of Native Irish who sit on their arse avoiding work and dreaming of Friday. They don't seem to realise it is back to the eighties time.
They all slag off the Poles, Lithuanians and Latvians who work their butts off and they enjoy having a good shot at UK citizens (yup there are more of us than Poles) but it is the immigrants who are climbing up and doing the job and actually telling the Irish what to do at work because a hard working nation has become soft.
And, The Irish did exactly the same wherever they emigrated and took the same ****.
Get off your arses and actually do the bloody work instead of the tiger wannabe ****e. And don't start blaming the immigrants for the problems you made yourselves.
The Poles didn't vote in your Government. You did that.

As I am in an airport passing time I thought I would give a more balanced response to a very angry post. Not everything is black and white in life; it would be much easier if it were. Every nationality has a % of workers who are not interested or motivated in the job they do, that does not make all Irish people lazy, tbh that remark is disrespectful. I am not sure what business you work in, but the majoirty of workers in other business are still Irish they creted the boom, using a bit of cop on and funding that has to be a positive thing, larger E.U. countires for all their powers and size didn't, if they are so bad just leave, i have left.

The Irish have as pointed out received structural funds southern Italy and Spain also received approximately the same level of funding, the Irish were the most resourceful in using this money, that is not a population of lazy people,

There not perfect but what race is, they are a lot more switched on than that.

I am a non national and I also was in charge of an extensive Irish no of workers BIG DEAL, all of my staff worked 11 hours a day minimum, with no complaints and the majority were Irish. I could list professions where the majority are Irish and they work at least 50 hours a week

Your post on being a TD is also disrespectable no matter how bad you thing they are.

If we were to change Irish in your post to UK polish of another nationality the board would light up with Reponses, and I do think that is a double standard, lets laugh at the last greed paddy an when he criticise us we will tell him he is racist, to give back the money we gave in funds Irish people are in other countries so you can’t say things like that etc.

Ireland is not an imperial power; Ireland owes ME and YOU NOTHING. I don’t want to hear about the EU . I too was in Ireland for 7 years, I paid tax top rate, paid for insurance, car. Food etc etc. I got more than I gave, taxes have to be paid in every country, when I left I don’t plan and making sure that every penny I paid in PAYE PRSI is got back that imho is taking the pisss, trying to bleed a country of eve thing is not right and that is why Irish people thing SOME immigrants are here for what they can get, it gives US all a bad name, I don’t think Irish are blaming the world wide recession on immigrants, the majority of post are in favour of immigration and the anti side want restrictions on labour arriving in a country where unemployment is raising the majority being Irish who are loosing there jobs telling them they are lazy is not understanding the bigger picture an minimum wage will not feed family and pay a mortgage the latter the majority of shot term workers won’t have

Your post seems very angery, if you are not happy with Irish people then life somewhere where you will be happy, life is too short.

blue4ever

Dragous wrote: »

Is it time the polish went home. all they've done is taken their wages and spent them at home. they've contributed nothing to the economy. And they are robbing our social welfare scheme. there are a few working with me here in limerick part time and they say that they won't leave now that dell has left as they can work a few hours here and then draw the dole. I don't mean to offend anyone with this thread. has the problem not been that ireland was too relaxed with out migration laws as enforced by the eu

Is it time the Irish left the UK/Germany/Spain/France.......

pepsicokeacola

amen brother. have a good flight


but ye someone said a while back immigrants liven the place up a bit. eh ye totally. i want a bit of vibrancy ffs. let them in i say.

sure the population is gonna decrease something mad now and its not like we have no room.

Volthar

blue4ever wrote: »

Is it time the Irish left the UK/Germany/Spain/France.......

Looks like we are going a little bit off topic. The initial question was "Is it time the polish went home." and it was supported by some reason why the poster thinks so. My final answer to this question is: for Many Poles, myself included, Ireland is home. So YES I am going home at 4.30pm

As an answer to your post I can only say - YES! And bring some of your money to Ireland to give a boost to the economy :P
To drakshug: got my implant yesterday!

JStand

I think we should be more concerned with the 2billion we've spent on refugees in the last six years:o

P. Breathnach

JStand wrote: »

I think we should be more concerned with the 2billion we've spent on refugees in the last six years:o

Do we simply repossess the cars we gave them? Those cars are worth far less now than when they were issued.

Volthar

I have another thought on the topic. What is going to happen with all these houses and apartments that immigrants rent? If all immigrants left, many housholds would simply go bankrupt not being able to pay their mortgages anymore. Sure there will be few more jobs available but for many house owners it will be clearly a disaster. Looks like the problem is a little bit more complicated. Some Irish people would be happy to carry a "Poles go home" banner (and I fully understand reasons behind it) but at the same time other Irish would like to keep Poles here for as long as possible. Anyway it looks like the first faction is going to get what they want as there are more and more houses and apartments available via Daft and prices are also much lower. Looks like many immigrants are already moving out...

Volthar

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Do we simply repossess the cars we gave them? Those cars are worth far less now than when they were issued.

Are you for real? It is hard to believe SW would give anyone (refugees included) a free car. Can post any proof?

drakshug

@nortal
Yes, it was an angry post after Reading the whole thread and the anti immigrant comments made. Those comments did not distinguish between nation and individuals either.
You seem to have glossed over those posts, maybe as you are going for a flight.
As for the TD comment, there are those that have earned respect. For the others my comment stands. You are entitled to your opinion but so am I and if this place keeps going down the swannee and the opinions put forward on this thread become more widespread then I may have to reconsider if failte still exists and move on for the sake of my family.

luckat

Pfft, if we're going to send anyone out of the country, what about the people who are now sacking their Eastern European workers and hiring Chinese, who are willing to work for well under the minimum wage.

P. Breathnach

Volthar wrote: »

Are you for real? It is hard to believe SW would give anyone (refugees included) a free car. Can post any proof?

Irony, my friend, irony.

Volthar

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Irony, my friend, irony.

LOL looks like now i need to upgrade my humor and irony implant

nortal

drakshug wrote: »

@nortal
Yes, it was an angry post after Reading the whole thread and the anti immigrant comments made. Those comments did not distinguish between nation and individuals either.
You seem to have glossed over those posts, maybe as you are going for a flight.
As for the TD comment, there are those that have earned respect. For the others my comment stands. You are entitled to your opinion but so am I and if this place keeps going down the swannee and the opinions put forward on this thread become more widespread then I may have to reconsider if failte still exists and move on for the sake of my family.

This tread would frustrate anyone - however I see the thread as pro immigration the majority of anti are looking at restrictions to the numbers given the economic climate in the developed world I can't disagree with someone raising that question - I still don't think it is racism or 100% completely anti immigration.
Is Ireland a racist place – no, are there racist in Ireland - yes a tiny % like all countries including accession EU countries. These threads make me angry as they present Irish in a poor light Ireland is not perfect but where is,

it is more liberal than many of the counties anti Irish posters originated from.

e.g. I and work college went to Poland for a weekend break last summer - beautiful building and architecture, however I thought most customer service was poor and fairly unfriendly, yet I would not presume that all polish people are like that - that is what is happening on this and other similar threads all of Ireland is being tarred with the one brush and it is acceptable that no non national seems to stand up for a country generous enough to allow us work and make money here, where our own countries are not able to provide that, if someone disagrees there are right wing.

I have left Ireland - as my personnel circumstances have changed I would gladly stay put but such is life.

There are huge cultural differences between countries across Europe - a piece of paper will not strike this out over night, France is different from Ireland Ireland form Spain etc etc. it is not good enough for immigrant workers to arrive and sit back and expect Irish people to integrate them into society. It is their country EU or not.

Posters say we are in the EU so we can stay are 100000% correct however that reads to me like I am entitled to be here now **** Off, which is I think a little co frontal. It is a simple case of I owe Ireland nothing not even respect for its citizens

I have experienced racism and its not when someone don't say hello to you in a shop, its when you will starve because you are not accepted, Ireland is a long way of that but integration needs to be discussed Irish people are entitled to that as are any other nation, ignore it like the rest of Europe and the inevitable will happen

For those who post negative things about Ireland (i don't mean you)you are welcome to leave and find somewhere you are more comfortable. In my case Ireland owes me nothing

Polka

Hello, at the beggining of my post I would like to apologize you all for my poor english, I've came here with just few words in my mouth, now i know much more...enough to understand this topic...:(
I am from Poland, and I'm pretty sad reading all of this...
I understand that lots of you are frustrated and blaiming polish for this BAD TIME, but believe me- it is not our fault...The recession has started in USA and goes around all of the world...We live here as well and the recession has touched us too...we have no work, no money, no friends, no family or anybody who could help us here...it's a very difficult time...few years ago everything was just fine, we all had a work, money, we could get a car, rent a nice house and have an easy life...everything was perfect it was our IRISH DREAM our PARADISE ...until now...
I've lost my job when I was pregnant, in my company they left only irish people with permanent positions, I've been working there for almost 2 years all the time on temporary contract...I even didn't realised that my wage is much less then their payments...they've never told anything about their payslips...now I know, that I've been working for a minimum but I was happy that I have any money to survive... I've been there anytime they needed me, I've tooked all overtimes, when my irish "friends" where at their homes sick after party...maybe it was the reason they didn't like me, but I've came here to work not for holidays, and I have to care about my self more then them, cause I can't count on my parents or familly when I need them..
It was a really lonely time for me, I was trying to intergrate with the others but it wasn't easy...I still heard them talking about me behind my back...it wasn't nice at all...they all kept together in small groups and I was on my own...
Now I'm unemployed and sitting at home with my baby, but my husband is self-employed, so we've quite good life, I'm getting jobseeker benefit ( why not?) but I'm not gonna get any other help from social, cause I simply don't need it... I'm looking for a work, cause I'm here to save some money and I wish to come back to Poland some day, if I wont get any job I'm gonna open my own bussines...but at the moment I'm trying to get something for a part time-because of baby...And believe me, we didn't came here because of your social welfare system, we don't making a kids for money ( like any other nations do ). We have a normal life here, we're paying rents, buying foods, clothes, cars, paying bills etc.etc.etc...We wanna live like you all do, it's not my fault that I was born in Poland
I'm just really sorry for all polish immigrants who came here and making a noise ( especially in pubs and clubs ) lots of them should stay in polish prisons, but they have no problems with getting a tickets and passing succesfully all the controls at the airports...this is a huge hole in our security system...
And please don't blaim us for all this situation...

Volthar

nortal wrote: »

These threads make me angry as they present Irish in a poor light Ireland is not perfect but where is, it is more liberal than many of the counties anti Irish posters originated from.
e.g. I and work college went to Poland for a weekend break last summer - beautiful building and architecture, however I thought most customer service was poor and fairly unfriendly

This is why I chose to live in Ireland. Friendly, smiling people and great customer services wherever you go (yes, even dealing with the tax office is not bad at all). I hope Polish shop assistants, bartenders etc. have learned a lesson and they will take the good experience back to Poland. Frankly whenever I am going to Poland I am afraid to say "Hi, how are you doing" to a shop assistant as they may think I am only nice because I am" taking a hit" on her (or him which is worse). People over there are ... too stiff and serious... Unfortunately this also applies to me. My total lack of sense of humor, sarcasm and irony was already pointed twice! ...in this thread alone.

pepsicokeacola

eh not a lot of us are blaming polish people for the situation we're in here in ireland. you'd have to be an idiot to blame polish people for the global recession and the faults of the goverment here

MassDeb8r

Ah the Poles are harmless, they are for the most part very nice, decent and hardworking people from my experiences in dealing with them.
Some cracking birds too, one or two you would definetely bring home to Mammy :pac:

karen3212

Polka wrote: »

we don't making a kids for money ( like any other nations do ). .

don't worry all Irish people don't blame people from other countries for what's happening.

I liked your post. I wish all people in Ireland well, and I hope those that feel hatred toward people from different countries get it out of their systems on boards like this, and realize that we are all in a similar position Polish, Irish etc people everywhere.

However the bit above. Some people may have kids for money, but they are not from any one nation. That worries me, it's called scapegoating.

Volthar

karen3212 wrote: »

don't worry all Irish people don't blame people from other countries for what's happening.

I liked your post. I wish all people in Ireland well, and I hope those that feel hatred toward people from different countries get it out of their systems on boards like this, and realize that we are all in a similar position Polish, Irish etc people everywhere.

I also think we are all in it. We have lived and worked in Ireland together in times of "boom" and now we have to survive through more difficult times and try to do our best to not let it happen again (and this is the difficult part).

karen3212 wrote: »

However the bit above. Some people may have kids for money, but they are not from any one nation. That worries me, it's called scapegoating.

Totally agree! We can not point the nation as whole for wrong doing of individuals. I bet you will find similar percentage of descent people amongst Irish, Polish, Czech, Nigerians etc. but also similar percentage of "not so descent" ones.

drakshug

nortal wrote: »

This tread would frustrate anyone - however I see the thread as pro immigration the majority of anti are looking at restrictions to the numbers given the economic climate in the developed world I can't disagree with someone raising that question - I still don't think it is racism or 100% completely anti immigration.
Is Ireland a racist place – no, are there racist in Ireland - yes a tiny % like all countries including accession EU countries. These threads make me angry as they present Irish in a poor light Ireland is not perfect but where is,

it is more liberal than many of the counties anti Irish posters originated from.

e.g. I and work college went to Poland for a weekend break last summer - beautiful building and architecture, however I thought most customer service was poor and fairly unfriendly, yet I would not presume that all polish people are like that - that is what is happening on this and other similar threads all of Ireland is being tarred with the one brush and it is acceptable that no non national seems to stand up for a country generous enough to allow us work and make money here, where our own countries are not able to provide that, if someone disagrees there are right wing.

I have left Ireland - as my personnel circumstances have changed I would gladly stay put but such is life.

There are huge cultural differences between countries across Europe - a piece of paper will not strike this out over night, France is different from Ireland Ireland form Spain etc etc. it is not good enough for immigrant workers to arrive and sit back and expect Irish people to integrate them into society. It is their country EU or not.

Posters say we are in the EU so we can stay are 100000% correct however that reads to me like I am entitled to be here now **** Off, which is I think a little co frontal. It is a simple case of I owe Ireland nothing not even respect for its citizens

I have experienced racism and its not when someone don't say hello to you in a shop, its when you will starve because you are not accepted, Ireland is a long way of that but integration needs to be discussed Irish people are entitled to that as are any other nation, ignore it like the rest of Europe and the inevitable will happen

For those who post negative things about Ireland (i don't mean you)you are welcome to leave and find somewhere you are more comfortable. In my case Ireland owes me nothing

Intelligent and well thought out comment.
Yes, my own experience of Lithuania, Latvia and Poland showed customer service as lacking - a hang up from Soviet times.
Yes, the people posting anti posts here are a small vocal minority but it does seem to be growing.
Integration is very important and it frustrates me to speak to people who have been here for years but haven't learnt English (or Irish for that matter )
However, a lot of us have been on the receiving end of the two faced stuff - nice to your face then give it behind your back and as it is a myth to say that all are racist, it is also a myth to say that everyone welcomes immigrants and the more unemployment there is, the more resentment will rise.
Yes we all owe something to Ireland for letting us work here even though it is probably the EU laws that ultimately let us but Ireland and the Irish also have to realise that by working here we have contributed to Ireland's past success and those who advocate shipping non irish out (Leo Varadkar?) and are letting off steam here on the boards should realise it is churlish to let people work for Ireland and Irish employers and then, when it gets tight, tell em to eff off.
We live in an age of mobility. No place is exempt from foreigners coming in to work. The posts that moan about Poles sending money home forget about the money sent back from the UK and The States by Irish immigrants. Those same immigrants became an important and dynamic part of those countries after a period of integration. Give the newcomers here time to integrate and they will. It doesn't happen in a decade. It happens in a generation and is already happening in Irish schools.