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Is it time the polish went home

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    #452
    WooPeeA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭WooPeeA


    Volthar wrote: »
    I have another thought on the topic. What is going to happen with all these houses and apartments that immigrants rent? If all immigrants left, many housholds would simply go bankrupt not being able to pay their mortgages anymore.
    It's not only about rents, but whole economy would be ruined. It's like you would like to deport 100.000 Irish. For economy nationality doesn't make any difference, it's just a human nonsense.
    Looks like many immigrants are already moving out...
    Would you stay if you read in the medias and internet how unwelcome you are in the place everyday? :P


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    #453
    Volthar
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭Volthar


    WooPeeA wrote: »
    Would you stay if you read in the medias and internet how unwelcome you are in the place everyday? :P

    I do not think they are leaving because they feel unwelcome. Majority does not give a damn as they do not mix socially, do not speak the language etc. I think some of immigrants are moving other countries like Norway, Denmark and Germany are more attractive for many as it is much closer to Poland, Czech Republic. Also loosing a job in construction is a real disaster for these who do not speak good English or do not have any other skill.


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    #454
    drakshug
    Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭drakshug


    Volthar wrote: »
    I do not think they are leaving because they feel unwelcome. Majority does not give a damn as they do not mix socially, do not speak the language etc. I think some of immigrants are moving other countries like Norway, Denmark and Germany are more attractive for many as it is much closer to Poland, Czech Republic. Also loosing a job in construction is a real disaster for these who do not speak good English or do not have any other skill.

    Yeah. That is what I've found. Most of my friends who were in building have gone. Those working in other professions are staying and they are the ones with the language skills. However they are also the ones who read Irish newspapers and threads such as these. I don't know any who are intending going home. Many have bought their own houses, started businesses or are climbing the career ladder. Some are studying part time. All have put down roots here and won't be going back as home is here.
    They do notice that some sectors of Ireland resent them and they also feel that some Irish treat them as stupid when most of them are highly qualified in their home countries. Most of them have two foreign languages, a degree but are working at a lower level than they would at home. Still they seem happy enough. It just comes up in conversations sometimes.


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    #455
    Serenity Now!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    Ffs...where to start...
    Volthar wrote: »
    I do not think they are leaving because they feel unwelcome. Majority does not give a damn as they do not mix socially, do not speak the language etc
    Nice generalising there. When you take this poll (no pun intended)?
    Volthar wrote: »
    I think some of immigrants are moving other countries like Norway, Denmark and Germany are more attractive for many as it is much closer to Poland, Czech Republic
    So proximity is the reason, is it? They all come by road or rail?
    Volthar wrote: »
    Also loosing a job in construction is a real disaster for these who do not speak good English or do not have any other skill.
    Hva med 'Norsk' eller 'Dansk' språkene?? :rolleyes:


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    #456
    Volthar
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭Volthar


    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    Nice generalising there. When you take this poll (no pun intended)?
    Based on what you can find on Polish community forum
    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    So proximity is the reason, is it? They all come by road or rail?
    Yes! When working in Germany or Denmark one can drive home every odd weekend but also take more "supplies" on their way back to wherever they work. But let's wait until May when Germany is supposed to open their labor market.
    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    Hva med 'Norsk' eller 'Dansk' språkene?? :rolleyes:
    No they do not. Most of Polish builders also do not speak English. For these workers it does not make any difference what other language they DO NOT speak for as long as they have Polish supervisor on site.


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    #457
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    jimmmy wrote: »
    You say what many Irish people have said to me in private. The massive influx of them has not beneffited the country. During the boom years they were paid well to build houses for themselves to rent / live in in Ireland, and the Irish people are now left carrying empty houses.

    Eh I'm pretty sure you'll find that most of the people you are talking about are renting property from IRISH landlords. You make it sound like they generated much of the demand, but there would have been no demand for their services had there not been a demand for houses. You didn't really spend much time thinking about that one then... :rolleyes:


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    #458
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    drakshug wrote: »
    Yeah. That is what I've found. Most of my friends who were in building have gone. Those working in other professions are staying and they are the ones with the language skills. However they are also the ones who read Irish newspapers and threads such as these. I don't know any who are intending going home. Many have bought their own houses, started businesses or are climbing the career ladder. Some are studying part time. All have put down roots here and won't be going back as home is here.
    They do notice that some sectors of Ireland resent them and they also feel that some Irish treat them as stupid when most of them are highly qualified in their home countries. Most of them have two foreign languages, a degree but are working at a lower level than they would at home. Still they seem happy enough. It just comes up in conversations sometimes.

    Its a sad reflection on those Irish people that resent others who are working, paying taxes and living what is essentially the same life the rest of us are. There are plenty of Irish that don't even do that! My experience has been that the most likely person to do the whole "You're coming over here and robing our jobs" thing is the least likely to actually have a job or even want one.

    Some Irish people do the whole pigeon English thing a lot too which, if anything, makes them look stupid, but can also come across as very condescending.

    At the end of the day though we benefited from the short term employment of non-nationals in the building sector and we as a people are just as likely to emigrate permanently to other countries as others are to come here. If we can do it so can they. And so long as they are like those you've described in your post, i.e. willing to work, pay taxes and obey our laws, they are more than welcome in my book. The last thing we need though is more scroungers. There's plenty of home-grown "talent" in that area already!


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    #459
    Serenity Now!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    Volthar wrote: »
    Based on what you can find on Polish community forum
    That hardly of a high enough representation. An internet forum lol :rolleyes:
    Volthar wrote: »
    Yes! When working in Germany or Denmark one can drive home every odd weekend but also take more "supplies" on their way back to wherever they work. But let's wait until May when Germany is supposed to open their labor market
    So why did you include Norway there? Oslo to Warsaw, for example, is hardly a handy journey. Or even how about Bergen or Stavanger? I know Polish people living in Oslo. They have settled and integrate just fine. The building sites were were they started off to get their 'foot in the door' and now they work all in sectors of industry they are educated in or have experience in.

    Volthar wrote: »
    No they do not. Most of Polish builders also do not speak English. For these workers it does not make any difference what other language they DO NOT speak for as long as they have Polish supervisor on site.
    Again, with the generalisms such as "most of"...


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    #460
    Volthar
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭Volthar


    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    That hardly of a high enough representation. An internet forum lol :rolleyes:
    It is some sort of representation. Same as our discussion on this forum. You can make whatever you want from this whole thread (Irish love/hate immigrants)
    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    So why did you include Norway there? Oslo to Warsaw, for example, is hardly a handy journey. Or even how about Bergen or Stavanger?
    My bad. Different reason for going to Norway. I Can't tell you why it is such a popular destination. Maybe you can ask your friends who live there. I am just curious: have they learned Norwegian before or after they moved to Norway?
    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    Again, with the generalisms such as "most of"...
    "Most off" does not mean "all". According to survey by "Polskie Centrum Informacji i Kultury in Dublin" only 30% of Polish in Ireland have "communicative or better" level of English = most can not communicate in English. I half-expect you to say that PCIK does not know how to perform a proper survey.


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    #461
    Serenity Now!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    Volthar wrote: »
    It is some sort of representation. Same as our discussion on this forum. You can make whatever you want from this whole thread (Irish love/hate immigrants)
    A drop in the ocean. I do make whatever I want from this thread and that is there are some fairly illogically xenophobic folk posting in it (no, I'm not referring to you, by the way).
    Volthar wrote: »
    My bad. Different reason for going to Norway. I Can't tell you why it is such a popular destination. Maybe you can ask your friends who live there. I am just curious: have they learned Norwegian before or after they moved to Norway?
    I lived there for five years. Took me a couple of years to master the language. One of the Polish I mentioned actually moved to Norway but couldn't get into a language class because they taught in English. So he went to the English class, learnt that language and then enrolled in a Norwegian class (the govt provides these classes free to 'innevandere).
    Volthar wrote: »
    "Most off" does not mean "all". According to survey by "Polskie Centrum Informacji i Kultury in Dublin" only 30% of Polish in Ireland have "communicative or better" level of English = most can not communicate in English. I half-expect you to say that PCIK does not know how to perform a proper survey.
    I can show you a poll that says India had a problem with the invasion of Iraq. Based on what? 1000 respondents. Thats 1000 out of how many? 1 billion??? lol
    I can also show you a poll used by both the Pro-Lisbon and Anti-Lisbon Treatyites. The very same poll.
    My point is that polls can be and are constructed to get the results the commissioner of that poll wants to achieve. If you are quoting an entire demographic then nothing less than referenda will do, in my opinon. Polls are weak. About as nuch solid proof as a Wiki.


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    #462
    pepsicokeacola
    Closed Accounts Posts: 309 ✭✭pepsicokeacola


    why did u pick this thread? :P

    i think history and heritage forum might be better but I replied anyway.


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    #463
    WooPeeA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭WooPeeA


    Volthar wrote: »
    Yes! When working in Germany or Denmark one can drive home every odd weekend but also take more "supplies" on their way back to wherever they work. But let's wait until May when Germany is supposed to open their labor market.
    Not exactly, distance doesn't matter here much. Imagine you're Polish and living in Gdansk or Warsaw and you work in Berlin, which is in fact pretty close to Polish border. Using a train or car it's more or less, a day long trip home.

    Using a plane (which in fact most of people chose) to get to/from Ireland it's just an 1h or 1,5h longer than departure form Berlin to get you home.

    The thing why they chose other cities/countries to live in is an economical decision. It's like you move from some small town you live in to Dublin for better job and money. Poles are travelers and I think they see the world that way.


    Same with mentioned by someone before houses, nothing more but economical decision.. People claim that they don't buy houses here... But honestly, who the heck will spend over half a million for a house in the middle of nowhere while for the same price you can have a nice mansion with a swimming pool and big garden in Spain just 100m from the beach??

    You can call it betray or whatever you want, I rather think they just make a good deals in life moving from place to another.


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    #464
    WooPeeA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭WooPeeA


    Volthar wrote: »
    My bad. Different reason for going to Norway. I Can't tell you why it is such a popular destination. Maybe you can ask your friends who live there. I am just curious: have they learned Norwegian before or after they moved to Norway?
    Come on Volthar, and how many Irish who moved to Spain, France or Germany can speak fluent German or Spanish? I don't try to excuse the Poles but it's just the way it is and always be. There will be always some group of people who won't speak the language or won't like to socialize with the locals. The majority of them can speak English here. I know about 10 Poles in Galway where I live and only 1 can't speak English at all, 2 of them speak weak English and 7 of them have really good English. It's still not a bad score. Would you say the same about Irish in Spain or Germany?


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    #465
    pepsicokeacola
    Closed Accounts Posts: 309 ✭✭pepsicokeacola


    i agree.


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    #466
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Karina_Germany wrote: »
    Thank you for your comment and for answering the questionnaire! I didn't know the history thread and I thought this is a good thread because here are many views ;-) but now I wrote it into the other thread, too! Thank you!

    Please restrict yourself to one link to your survey in one thread in one forum. I've deleted it the one here since it's utterly off-topic.


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    #467
    Volthar
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭Volthar


    WooPeeA wrote: »
    Come on Volthar, and how many Irish who moved to Spain, France or Germany can speak fluent German or Spanish? I don't try to excuse the Poles but it's just the way it is and always be. There will be always some group of people who won't speak the language or won't like to socialize with the locals. The majority of them can speak English here. I know about 10 Poles in Galway where I live and only 1 can't speak English at all, 2 of them speak weak English and 7 of them have really good English.

    I also know about 20 Polish and all speak very good English. Honestly I do not know a single Polish who lives in Dublin and does not know English. However all these I know work in highly specialized environment and they would not get the job if not their education and language skills. By the way I am Polish too :) I have mentioned it somewhere in this thread.

    The point I tried to make is that average "general operative" who does not speak good English can move to Denmark, Norway or Germany and be in exactly same situation as long as his/her supervisor is Polish.


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    #468
    Volthar
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭Volthar


    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    I lived there for five years. Took me a couple of years to master the language. One of the Polish I mentioned actually moved to Norway but couldn't get into a language class because they taught in English. So he went to the English class, learnt that language and then enrolled in a Norwegian class (the govt provides these classes free to 'innevandere).
    This is exactly what I meant.

    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    I can show you a poll that says India had a problem with the invasion of Iraq. Based on what? 1000 respondents. Thats 1000 out of how many? 1 billion??? lol
    I can also show you a poll used by both the Pro-Lisbon and Anti-Lisbon Treatyites. The very same poll.
    My point is that polls can be and are constructed to get the results the commissioner of that poll wants to achieve. If you are quoting an entire demographic then nothing less than referenda will do, in my opinon. Polls are weak. About as nuch solid proof as a Wiki.

    True. It depends on who prepared the poll and questionnaire and then of course on who counted votes :P
    I used one example to show that only 30% of Polish in Ireland can speak good English. Please can you prove me wrong by giving me an example? I would be extremely happy to know that 100% of my natives can communicate in English. From what I know this is not the case.

    Anyway, we are going off topic here. The original question was "Is it time the polish went home" and I have already answered it. I am Polish and I am going home every day after work. Here is my home so is for many other immigrants.


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    #469
    WooPeeA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭WooPeeA


    Volthar wrote: »
    I also know about 20 Polish and all speak very good English. Honestly I do not know a single Polish who lives in Dublin and does not know English. However all these I know work in highly specialized environment and they would not get the job if not their education and language skills. By the way I am Polish too :) I have mentioned it somewhere in this thread.

    The point I tried to make is that average "general operative" who does not speak good English can move to Denmark, Norway or Germany and be in exactly same situation as long as his/her supervisor is Polish.
    I agree with you then. ;)


    ---

    I just found a short report made by RTE1 about Poles working in the construction and how does it affect them today:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAWN0TqnWhw


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    #470
    Volthar
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭Volthar


    WooPeeA wrote: »
    I just found a short report made by RTE1 about Poles working in the construction and how does it affect them today:

    Nice1. It kind of supports my point.


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    #471
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    My experience of polish people where I work is pretty positive, they seem to have a dedication to self improvement that a lot of their Irish colleagues seem to lack. From what I can see the country benefits from their presence


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    #472
    chrisde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭chrisde


    Free Movement is rubbish Germany told me i had to earn at least € 400 a month to stay there. Even though I am Irish and E.U citizen. The problem is there was only €400 job available at the time. Ireland and the U.K play by the rules of the E.U, the rest don't.


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    #473
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    The Polish in my town look very much at home to me...:confused:


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    #474
    lukasbasic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭lukasbasic


    dude you do not know the polish mentality, they will suck your blood till the very very end....:)
    Dragous wrote: »
    Is it time the polish went home. all they've done is taken their wages and spent them at home. they've contributed nothing to the economy. And they are robbing our social welfare scheme. there are a few working with me here in limerick part time and they say that they won't leave now that dell has left as they can work a few hours here and then draw the dole. I don't mean to offend anyone with this thread. has the problem not been that ireland was too relaxed with out migration laws as enforced by the eu


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    #475
    enniscorthy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭enniscorthy


    no definately not keep them here have 1 girl working in our shop delighted beautiful amazing only know 2 polish girls no lads hehehehe keep the ladies here


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    #476
    bigeasyeah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭bigeasyeah


    Is this want they call a troll?


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    #477
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    I work in a profession where there are no Poles so I have no real opinion on them from that prospective.

    I have dated a few Polish girls and I found them very hard work. Nice but hard work.

    They were always looking for angles and trying to find out what ways I could help them. It was all take take take...I even ended up being talked into giving Irish grinds...FFS..plus they never never put their hands in their pockets and always expected me to do the running. Just got sick of it and ditched them...but at least they can take a hint...:D

    TBH..I never stuck around to find out what they were like in bed..


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    #478
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Dragging up an old thread can sometimes be a worthwhile exercise. In this case, I can't see it happening.


This discussion has been closed.
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