Is it time the polish went home

pepsicokeacola

..and they could all mostly speak english.

the new york example is ace though. its so not integrated its not even funny.

brian ireland

pepsicokeacola wrote: »

its what i do

Brilliant

O'Morris

brian ireland wrote:

if they never came to this country we would have been Doomed.

Why would we have been doomed?

herya wrote:

TBH I find the idea that new immigrants will make up for emigrants highly unbelievable.

I suppose we'll just have to sit back and hope for the best. Either that or we could take action to reduce the number of people coming in. That would nearly guarantee that we'll have significantly fewer people entering the country than leaving.

herya wrote:

I've no sources to quote but having friends I stay in touch with in many countries I know that Ireland is the last place to go to now.

I don't think so. The East Europeans don't have many options besides Ireland as they don't have the same level of access to many other EU countries. Most other EU countries still have restrictions on them and so Ireland will still have a higher place on the list of attractive locations than those other EU countries.

Regardless of how many jobs we'll be able to create this year, the fact that our wage levels are still much higher than they are in Eastern Europe and the we have granted them complete access to our labour market means that we can expect to see far more immigrants than our economy needs in 2009.

herya

O'Morris wrote: »

I don't think so. The East Europeans don't have many options besides Ireland as they don't have the same level of access to many other EU countries. Most other EU countries still have restrictions on them and so Ireland will still have a higher place on the list of attractive locations than those other EU countries.

Not really, France and Germany are open for these workers now (I think, or will be early this year?), Scandinavia is open as is Spain. These are all big markets with much better press than Ireland has. Even if English speaking countries might be more attractive due to English being the most popular language anybody with an ounce of reason would choose UK over Ireland now to look for a job.

Edit: I checked it for you. France is open for Eastern Europeans since last year and Germany will open in May. I guess Ireland drops a good couple of places down the list now - you can't drive home for the weekend after all.

brian ireland

O'Morris wrote: »

Why would we have been doomed?







R

They Came They Worked and They Went Home. NO ONE want to do these jobs. I know first Hand I am An employer.

Gael23

The reality is that no irish person would do the jobs they are willing to do.

mikemac

ryanf1 wrote: »

The reality is that no irish person would do the jobs they are willing to do.

Like what?
Farm labourer?
Hotel porter involving carrying heavy suitcases and mopping toilets?
Kitchen porter which is probably worst job of all?

If you're a kitchen porter you'd kill for a shop assistant job earning the same wage - minimum wage!

I've done them all, now tell me which job Irish people aren't willing to do.

Danuogma

mikemac wrote: »

Like what?
Farm labourer?
Hotel porter involving carrying heavy suitcases and mopping toilets?
Kitchen porter which is probably worst job of all?

If you're a kitchen porter you'd kill for a shop assistant job earning the same wage - minimum wage!

I've done them all, now tell me which job Irish people aren't willing to do.

When I was in collage I worked in a s*it job to make money, I couldn't afford to be too picky. The person who says that Irish people aren't willing to do certain jobs hasn't a clue what he is talking about.

K-9

O'Morris wrote: »

From an economic point of view it would help things if there were fewer people in the country competing for a shrinking number of available jobs. According to this article in the economist, if 20,000 people left the country we could see unemployment fall by a percentage point.

O'Morris wrote: »

That's good news then as it might make it easier for the people who are out of work in this country to get back into employment.

The figure of 1,300 Poles leaving each week is not really of much use on its own as we would need to subtract the number of people entering the country to arrive at the net difference. It's unlikely that there more Poles entering the country than are leaving but it would interesting to find out if the latter is significantly higher than the former.

Do you know how many Poles and other non-nationals are expected to enter the country this year?

Seanies32 wrote: »

Apologies if it wasn't your good self. I'll do a search in a half an hour after I get my booze. Nearly sure NET Emigration is being predicted.

From http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=58328394&highlight=Net+emigration#post58328394

Eurosceptic2008 wrote:

I wonder is that true. The available data indicates that for every 141 Poles leaving per day, 94 are arriving. Also evidence of Irish emigration up to last September or so in the UK suggested it hasn't really risen more than the usual 10,000 per annum. Maybe the social-welfare system will keep a ceiling on emigration this time in a way it wouldn't have in the past. You also have to remember that unlike the 1980's, there is no obvious escape route from what is a global recession.

Seanies32 wrote:

That would be roughly 17,000 Net leaving every year and also more from other countries.

I wouldn't go on figures to September for Irish emigration. Could be well into 09 before you see the real figures. People generally don't want to be on welfare, especially graduates, plumbers, electricians etc. who are going to Australia were there is demand.

It seems the 20,000 leaving the country is indeed happening.

Also with France's borders fully open and Germany's in May, if things aren't good here, those immigrants will move swiftly onwards.

That's the thing about immigration, it isn't racist or recognises borders.

the_god_swan

professore wrote: »

If you want to blame someone for Dell then blame the government - however slapping computers together was never going to stay in Ireland with our costs here, most of which are the governments fault. But I'm sure you still drool when that muppet Bertie comes on TV. His policies are what caused this. Cowen is just left holding the baby and is clueless now that it's puking all over him.

A lot of them have already?

They contributed nothing to the economy here? Sure they slept on the street, ate weeds and grass off the side of the road, convinced their bosses to pay no tax or prsi for them, so they spent zero in this country.

By the way that dole plan is what lots of Irish have been doing for years. The only way to do this is to pull out of the EU - then our currency will collapse completely along with all our banks, the remaining multinationals will pull out, our exports to the EU will be taxed and we will be eating grass and weeds off the side of the road for real and begging the UK for help again.

The most spot on post in all of this madness thread so far...

K-9

mikemac wrote: »

Like what?
Farm labourer?
Hotel porter involving carrying heavy suitcases and mopping toilets?
Kitchen porter which is probably worst job of all?

If you're a kitchen porter you'd kill for a shop assistant job earning the same wage - minimum wage!

I've done them all, now tell me which job Irish people aren't willing to do.

Danuogma wrote: »

When I was in collage I worked in a s*it job to make money, I couldn't afford to be too picky. The person who says that Irish people aren't willing to do certain jobs hasn't a clue what he is talking about.

Don't think they are talking about you two specifically!:rolleyes:

In general, yes, some sectors are nearly totally reliant on immigrants for Labour. The catering sector being a prime example.

It often isn't necessarily Irish people turning their noses up at jobs, it's just the wages are too low to finance the high cost of living here.

damnyanks

jmayo wrote: »

Change a few terms in your post and low and behold, we could have an Englishman talking about lazy drunken sponging paddies and sending them back to their spuds in Eire :rolleyes:

For someone that doesn't mean to offend anyone you sure do a good job
If every nation adopted this policy of sending those damm foreigners, who contribute nothing, home then how many Irish people would be back here from US, UK, Australia, Germany, etc etc.

Actually my friend the English have a variety of political parties with that exact view. They are even elected members of parliment or on the council of cities.

BNP being hte most obvious.

_Nuno_

kingofglantine wrote: »

I hope you realise that a HUGE amount of them shop in thier own polish shops which have been set up here by poles, selling am, polish products...
Yes they have been taking money out of our economy and have been putting as little as possible back in..

That's what you say. They buy most of their stuff in ALDI and Lidl, and some items in their Polish shops. They pay rent, they use petrol, they buy groceries, just like everyone else. Sure some money is bound to go away but that is not the reason this country's economy has gone to S***. That is just due to plain old greed. And guess who was greedy? It sure wasn't the Polish....

slimjimmc

_Nuno_ wrote: »

That's what you say. They buy most of their stuff in ALDI and Lidl, and some items in their Polish shops. They pay rent, they use petrol, they buy groceries, just like everyone else. Sure some money is bound to go away but that is not the reason this country's economy has gone to S***. That is just due to plain old greed. And guess who was greedy? It sure wasn't the Polish....

+1
Spot on _Nuno_

They also go to off-licenses and buy airline tickets.

jmayo

mikemac wrote: »

Imagine you are a college student and you are looking for a job, any job!
Any minimum wage job will do for the summer, it might be a waiter/waitress, barman or shop assistant.
...
What if you want to get cheap rental accommodation. So decent accommodation at a fair price but you are in Galway and you find thousands of immigrants every summer willing to drive the rent upwards. Are you glad and certain that immigration was a fantastic thing for Ireland?
...
The landlord classes, employers and our elite will brand you a xenophobe if you dare open your mouth to ask why we did what we did when other countries in the EU didn't.

*awaits the flaming from people who never struggled for a job in their lives*

There were a hell of a lot of our students fecking off for holidays in Spain etc rather than working.
Yes there were some who actually were working.
Oh and what about all the Irish students that go to the States on J1s, what about thebones that use to go to UK or Germany for the summer working, are they not taking jobs some poor local kid might want ?

Ohh this mythical landlord class ?
Do you know who are the biggest landlords I personnally know ?
They are in fact builders, plumbers, carpenters that have handfulls of houses.
Normally Ibet you would have these as fine working class put upon people.
In the old days they would have 7 students in a 4 bed house and let me tell you half of them they never paid any tax.
Then they discovered they could screw even more money out of Eastern Europeans or Chinese workers.

PS I have also struggled for jobs and have known what it is like to be made redundant with only statutory redundancy, there was no golden handshake or redundancy capped at 52 weeks.

trailerparkboy wrote: »

Irish people are being made unemployed by the tens of thousands yet we have thousands of immigrants arriving every day, people are getting very angry over this, its the single bigest issue in this country right now and yet not one T.D will speak out, the time is now rype for a new political party to form in Ireland that advocates the deportation of all illegal immigrants and limiting social welfare benifits to immigrants to a max of 6 months. This is our country, Irish jobs for Irish people first.

Where do I start ?
Rules and fear of the all seeing OB prevent me from saying what I would like :mad:

Herya summed it up best, oh what an apt nickname :rolleyes:
PS do you work ?

damnyanks wrote: »

Actually my friend the English have a variety of political parties with that exact view. They are even elected members of parliment or on the council of cities.

BNP being hte most obvious.

Yes I know they exist but does that mean we have to emmulate them ?
I would lay money on it a lot of the ones cripping about bloody foreigners are the very ones that read the Sun and subscribe to Sky Sports to "support" their team Liverpool, Man Utd or whoever :rolleyes:

Serenity Now!

kingofglantine wrote: »

I hope you realise that a HUGE amount of them shop in thier own polish shops which have been set up here by poles, selling am, polish products...
Yes they have been taking money out of our economy and have been putting as little as possible back in..

Since you're going to generalise like this, me l'il amnesiac, it would be fair for 'them' to say that a Cork man moaning about other people's money wouldn't be a surprise, wouldn't it? :rolleyes:

Pigeon-holing an entire demographic comprised of nationals from several countries to prove they're a 'problem'! Priceless. Really priceless. LOL

coolwater

Apparently on a lot of building sites in Poland they have signs up saying " No Irish Need Apply" - disgraceful . enough is enough , I know alot of Polish people living here that have children back in Poland & are claiming Childrens allowence here . It disgusts me!

mikemac

jmayo wrote: »

Ohh this mythical landlord class ?
Do you know who are the biggest landlords I personnally know ?
They are in fact builders, plumbers, carpenters that have handfulls of houses.
Normally Ibet you would have these as fine working class put upon people.
In the old days they would have 7 students in a 4 bed house and let me tell you half of them they never paid any tax.
Then they discovered they could screw even more money out of Eastern Europeans or Chinese workers.

You qouted me so I'll reply. I agree with you on the examples you've given on who are typical lanlords these day.

I just posted "landlord class", I could have said group or sector or something else. And I don't buy into this dividing people by class and I think you read my post as some sort of oppresion of working people.
Not at all, you are reading too much into it, calm down

AlekSmart

Spot on jmayo +1.

One of the most compelling examples of this may well still be in the Travel Agents window in Dublins North Earl St.

It went up before after the Leaving/Junior results and extolls customers to BOOK NOW for their post Leaving Cert celebrations in Aya Napa or some such exotic locale.

At what point in this country`s existance did we suddenly find it necessary to engage in such levels of "celebration" for passing a statutory grading examination ?

At what point did we drop the EXPECTATION that our young students should pass these exams and replace this with some form of "sweets for the babby" IF they graced us with a pass ?

The knock on effects of this lunacy are now being experienced as "our" young college educated population find themselves being sidelined by an Eastern European and Asian people who saw this studying and accquisition of knowledge as an opportunity for advancement rather than a way of gettin to ingest vast amounts of sangria on a sunny beach !

Happily,this recession/depression look like being SO severe that much of this codology will have to disappear asap.....

Next target............ the stretched Pink Hummer :eek:

johndaman66

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Since you're going to generalise like this, me l'il amnesiac, it would be fair for 'them' to say that a Cork man moaning about other people's money wouldn't be a surprise, wouldn't it? :rolleyes:

Pigeon-holing an entire demographic comprised of nationals from several countries to prove they're a 'problem'! Priceless. Really priceless. LOL

Do such personal attacks really serve any purpose for the thread? I don't think so. The poster you quote may/ may not be right in the points he makes but who is generalising against Cork people! Priceless. Really priceless.

For the purpose of the thread and just from my own point of view I dont see the Poles (or indeed Eastern Europeans) are the source of all evil. Blame must be levelled at policy makers for their shortsightness allowing immigrants to enter the country in the numbers they did in the first place and some controls should have being put in place. Furthermore blame the sheeple who voted in these policy makers and if that includes you accept some of the blame. While a certain amount of them may have being needed to make up the labour shortfalls that were the case in 1998 the numbers that were allowed enter in was just madness. In 2009 when the outlook is very different we cant exactly tell or make foreign nationals go home. Easy to bring foreign workers in, not easy/ cant force them to go home and a severe burden is going to be placed on our social welfare system.

Its very easy to get all high and mighty about it and accuse other people of being racist if you are not directly affected by job losses and rising unemployment. Or have a sun or daughter who finds it impossible to get work of any description on the minimum wage to get themselves through college. A certain amount of the blame can be attributed to the numbers of foreign nationals who were allowed entered the country in recent years and severley put the squeeze on. But again as afore mentioned blame the policy makers/ sheeple. This could not have being sustained indefinately and was very short-sighted.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Serenity Now!

johndaman66 wrote: »

Do such personal attacks really serve any purpose for the thread? I don't think so. The poster you quote may/ may not be right in the points he makes but who is generalising against Cork people! Priceless. Really priceless

Its not a personal attack. Its an example of the logic on which the person was posting. I don't think that about Cork or people from Cork. Its a myth. Very much like the myth that Eastern and Baltic Europeans only contribute to a trade vacuum.

johndaman66 wrote: »

For the purpose of the thread and just from my own point of view I dont see the Poles (or indeed Eastern Europeans) are the source of all evil. Blame must be levelled at policy makers for their shortsightness allowing immigrants to enter the country in the numbers they did in the first place and some controls should have being put in place. Furthermore blame the sheeple who voted in these policy makers and if that includes you accept some of the blame. While a certain amount of them may have being needed to make up the labour shortfalls that were the case in 1998 the numbers that were allowed enter in was just madness. In 2009 when the outlook is very different we cant exactly tell or make foreign nationals go home. Easy to bring foreign workers in, not easy/ cant force them to go home

This is another case of Ireland taking all it can from the EU and not contributing to it. One of the original conditions of the EC/EEC/EEA/EU trade agreements is freedom of mobility of labour.

johndaman66 wrote: »

Its very easy to get all high and mighty about it and accuse other people of being racist if you are not directly affected by job losses and rising unemployment. Or have a sun or daughter who finds it impossible to get work of any description on the minimum wage to get themselves through college

All you've proven there is that an alleged hardship breeds irrational xenophobia.

johndaman66 wrote: »

A certain amount of the blame can be attributed to the numbers of foreign nationals who were allowed entered the country in recent years and severley put the squeeze on. But again as afore mentioned blame the policy makers/ sheeple. This could not have being sustained indefinately and was very short-sighted.

Isn't hindsight a fine thing? Especially coming from people in a country who for decades provided one of the largest migratory workforce ever known.

ionix5891

coolwater wrote: »

Apparently on a lot of building sites in Poland they have signs up saying " No Irish Need Apply" - disgraceful . enough is enough , I know alot of Polish people living here that have children back in Poland & are claiming Childrens allowence here . It disgusts me!

EVIDENCE please

ninty9er

professore wrote: »

They contributed nothing to the economy here? Sure they slept on the street, ate weeds and grass off the side of the road, convinced their bosses to pay no tax or prsi for them, so they spent zero in this country.

What he said.

Their landlords also had to pay tax on the rent they paid, as well as them paying VAT on consumption.

WooPeeA

Dragous wrote: »

Is it time the polish went home. all they've done is taken their wages and spent them at home. they've contributed nothing to the economy.

I don't know what is your education or qualifications in that case but it seems to me like you don't have basic information about rules of economy and you're telling bull**** here.

ejmaztec

ninty9er wrote: »

What he said.

Their landlords also had to pay tax on the rent they paid, as well as them paying VAT on consumption.

Unless of course, as in many buy-to-lets, the landlord's mortgage interest cancelled out any taxable rent. With many tenants gone and no others to replace them, I dread to think how many vacant lets around the country are on the repo list.

Fighting Irish

coolwater wrote: »

Apparently on a lot of building sites in Poland they have signs up saying " No Irish Need Apply" - disgraceful . enough is enough , I know alot of Polish people living here that have children back in Poland & are claiming Childrens allowence here . It disgusts me!

sure we'll all quote the newspapers

WooPeeA

professore wrote: »

And who's fault is that ????? Us - we were stupid enough to build the houses. I'm sure when the builders were earning 50K + a year they weren't complaining. This whole "Polish ruined the country" thing is so stupid. WE DID THIS OURSELVES.

The thing is that you can't blame thousands of blacks who prefer to live on Irish social welfare than work, or Pakistani who commit crimes in Europe under Irish passport, or Indians who don't even wash vegetables before cooking, because you will be a racist. It's politically correct to blame it all on Poles who are no different than other Europeans, they are white, civilized etc..

There's about 50.000 of them in the country and almost 4 million Irish, country is going into big ****.. Who's guilty? Of course it's not Irish but Poles who don't even have a right to vote...:rolleyes:

WooPeeA

EF wrote: »

Why just the Polish? Send the English back to England, the Nigerians back to Nigeria, the French back to France etc..

This thread is illogical.

And continuing.. Irish back home from Australia, USA, Canada... No different philosophy.

WooPeeA

ntlbell wrote: »

The houses are empty because they're over priced and the rent is set too high.

Maybe a little off topic but I read few weeks ago that you can have 2 big houses with swimming pool in sunny Florida for the price of one small house in ordinary Irish town.