Is it time the polish went home

The Corinthian

O'Morris wrote: »

I've never proposed racial purity in any other thread.

Yes you have:

O'Morris wrote: »

Patriotic people like myself consider it our duty to have big families with ethnic Irish women to keep the flame of the gael burning into the 22nd. In a hundred years from now there will be a lot more people with my y chromosome running around the place than there will be people with your y chromosome.

P. Breathnach wrote: »

"A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step"

Only if you know where you're going.

axer

The Corinthian wrote: »

Only if you know where you're going.

Can be more dangerous when you don't.

O'Morris

The Corinthian wrote:

Yes you have:

No I have not. The quote you've reproduced was a response to the claim that the Irish population is set to decline. I said that patriotic Irish people like myself will have big families to make sure that Ireland is still an ethnically Irish country in a hundred years from now. I never said anything about racial purity. You're just deliberately trying to twist things to try to find a racial angle on this.

djpbarry

O'Morris wrote: »

I said that patriotic Irish people like myself will have big families to make sure that Ireland is still an ethnically Irish country in a hundred years from now. I never said anything about racial purity.

So you want Ireland to be "ethnically Irish", but this has absolutely nothing to do with race?

The Corinthian

O'Morris wrote: »

No I have not. The quote you've reproduced was a response to the claim that the Irish population is set to decline. I said that patriotic Irish people like myself will have big families to make sure that Ireland is still an ethnically Irish country in a hundred years from now. I never said anything about racial purity. You're just deliberately trying to twist things to try to find a racial angle on this.

Your post clearly admits that it is your 'patriotic' aim to reproduce with 'ethnic Irish women'. You go so far as to cite that they would be carrying a specific chromosome. Even now you admit that your aim is an increase in 'ethnically Irish' population for the next century.

This is a clear encouragement for an increase in the racially 'pure' Irish population. There is absolutely no misrepresentation of what you said, which is a pretty blunt promotion of racial purity.

P. Breathnach

The Corinthian wrote: »

Only if you know where you're going.

As well as being facile, that is simply not true (not even as metaphor). Many Germans were antisemitic in the 1920s; I suspect that they did not envisage the holocaust.

Once you say it is all right to single out a grouping in society on grounds such as race, religion, ethnicity, or place of origin, and go on to say that it is all right to treat them differently, then you have taken the first step on a journey to a bad place.

O'Morris

The Corinthian wrote:

Your post clearly admits that it is your 'patriotic' aim to reproduce with 'ethnic Irish women'.

Absolutely. I didn't say they had to be any particular race though.

The Corinthian wrote:

You go so far as to cite that they would be carrying a specific chromosome.

Which is what will happen if I have more descendants than someone else. More men will have my y chromosome in a hundred years than will have the the y chromosome of a less virile man. I didn't say it was a good thing or a bad thing that they would be carrying my y chromosome. It's just an inevitable result of me having more descendants.

The Corinthian wrote:

Even now you admit that your aim is an increase in 'ethnically Irish' population for the next century.

That's correct. I do want Ireland to still be an ethnically Irish country in a hundred years from now. Does that make me a racialist in your opinion?

The Corinthian wrote:

This is a clear encouragement for an increase in the racially 'pure' Irish population.

Where have I said anything about racial purity? I've never even mentioned race. Are you assuming that when I say ethnically Irish that I'm referring to white-skinned Irish people with 100% Irish ancestry like myself? I've already indicated that it's possible for a non-white to become ethnically Irish and so that's not a fair assumption.

The Corinthian wrote:

There is absolutely no misrepresentation of what you said, which is a pretty blunt promotion of racial purity.

I'm going to assume that English is not your first language so I'm not going to waste any energy trying to explain to you the difference between race and ethnicity.

veronica

90 million euro in child benefit and 160 million to educate their children to speak english while children with special needs especially autism for ABA is being cut-back and yesterdays annocement that Carers allowance to be cut back...it's long overdue that they were asked to leave! The polish especially who spend nothing here with their own super-markets and western union in shops transfering all thir money back to poland.They got a wage while the times were good now we have a recession we own them nothing and the nigerians the same with their free Taxi plates and leaving in hotels getting 3 meals a day plus all the benefits under the Sun while we have our own people sleeping rough on the streets and the likes of simon get the bear amount to keep going. We have always looked after other nations in this country and especially our government giving so much Aid abroad always worried about our image abroad...look how good we are.Lets bring down the shutters now on Non-nationals thank you for your help during the Celtic Tiger you got well paid for what u did but you cannot now sponge off of this state no more.Give Ireland Back to the Irish!

ejmaztec

The number of angry posters on this thread proves that ignorance isn't bliss after all.

veloc123

seanybiker wrote: »

So what if they sent money home. They worked for it they can do what they want with it. Some of the polish women do be fairly hot. Send the men home lol

Yeah too right those Polish/Slovakian women are well fit, tight bodies and personality to match...ya can't send them home ya muppet....

partyguinness

veloc123 wrote: »

Yeah too right those Polish/Slovakian women are well fit, tight bodies and personality to match...ya can't send them home ya muppet....

Yeah send the men packing but keep the women here...:D but only if they lighten up and stop complaining.

Just think of what wld happen to the standards in the lapdancing clubs...if all the birds left..:(

3DataModem

Dragous wrote: »

all they've done is taken their wages and spent them at home.

No way. They've moved the tradesman standards up several notches.

Now whenever I ring a plumber or chippie or tiler I know if his surname is "Lesnewski" or similar that he'll ....

(a) turn up on time
(b) agree a fair price for the job
(c) clean up after himself

K-9

veronica wrote: »

90 million euro in child benefit and 160 million to educate their children to speak english while children with special needs especially autism for ABA is being cut-back and yesterdays annocement that Carers allowance to be cut back...it's long overdue that they were asked to leave! The polish especially who spend nothing here with their own super-markets and western union in shops transfering all thir money back to poland.They got a wage while the times were good now we have a recession we own them nothing and the nigerians the same with their free Taxi plates and leaving in hotels getting 3 meals a day plus all the benefits under the Sun while we have our own people sleeping rough on the streets and the likes of simon get the bear amount to keep going. We have always looked after other nations in this country and especially our government giving so much Aid abroad always worried about our image abroad...look how good we are.Lets bring down the shutters now on Non-nationals thank you for your help during the Celtic Tiger you got well paid for what u did but you cannot now sponge off of this state no more.Give Ireland Back to the Irish!

PML I think you are being sarcastic to prove a point!

All ignores the millions they paid in taxes.

If being an asylum seeker is so good, maybe go live with them for a week!

djpbarry

Dragous wrote: »

Is it time the polish went home.

Any Poles working 9 to 5 should be heading home about now, yes.

The Corinthian

O'Morris wrote: »

Absolutely. I didn't say they had to be any particular race though.

So an 'ethnically Irish' black woman is acceptable? Is a 'ethnically Irish' woman of Irish genetic stock moreso?

Which is what will happen if I have more descendants than someone else. More men will have my y chromosome in a hundred years than will have the the y chromosome of a less virile man. I didn't say it was a good thing or a bad thing that they would be carrying my y chromosome. It's just an inevitable result of me having more descendants.

And the fact that you have previously claimed that this Y-chromosome was indicative of the Irish maintaining our "pre-Neolithic genetic heritage" is now conveniently forgotten and the chromosome in question is simply a sign of virility, I see.

That's correct. I do want Ireland to still be an ethnically Irish country in a hundred years from now. Does that make me a racialist in your opinion?

If you want to do it through a breeding programme, yes.

Where have I said anything about racial purity? I've never even mentioned race. Are you assuming that when I say ethnically Irish that I'm referring to white-skinned Irish people with 100% Irish ancestry like myself? I've already indicated that it's possible for a non-white to become ethnically Irish and so that's not a fair assumption.

Then why do you repeatedly bring genetics into it, such as your promotion of Dr. Emmeline Hill's theories?

I'm going to assume that English is not your first language so I'm not going to waste any energy trying to explain to you the difference between race and ethnicity.

I am quite aware of the difference between race and ethnicity, however I am not the one who brought up the genetic factor into the mix - you did - and that is a question of race. Additionally you did not specify what you meant by ethnicity, as race is commonly a factor in ethnicity - here's a definition, in case English is not your first language:

Oxford English Dictionary wrote:

Ethnicity a[djective]

...
2.a. Pertaining to race; peculiar to a race or nation; ethnological. Also, pertaining to or having common racial, cultural, religious, or linguistic characteristics, esp. designating a racial or other group within a larger system; hence (U.S. colloq.), foreign, exotic.
b ethnic minority (group), a group of people differentiated from the rest of the community by racial origins or cultural background, and usu. claiming or enjoying official recognition of their group identity. Also attrib.

Now, I think it would not be necessary for English to be my first, second, third or fifth language to detect when someone is attempting to use weasel words to avoid being pinned down for what they are, which is clearly someone who holds racialist views in your case.

partyguinness

Christ people give it up...or take it outside...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

and sldnt a Moderator know better then to get into this...

Fratton Fred

veronica wrote: »

90 million euro in child benefit and 160 million to educate their children to speak english while children with special needs especially autism for ABA is being cut-back and yesterdays annocement that Carers allowance to be cut back...it's long overdue that they were asked to leave! The polish especially who spend nothing here with their own super-markets and western union in shops transfering all thir money back to poland.They got a wage while the times were good now we have a recession we own them nothing and the nigerians the same with their free Taxi plates and leaving in hotels getting 3 meals a day plus all the benefits under the Sun while we have our own people sleeping rough on the streets and the likes of simon get the bear amount to keep going. We have always looked after other nations in this country and especially our government giving so much Aid abroad always worried about our image abroad...look how good we are.Lets bring down the shutters now on Non-nationals thank you for your help during the Celtic Tiger you got well paid for what u did but you cannot now sponge off of this state no more.Give Ireland Back to the Irish!

Was that being sarcastic or not, I can't tell?

when Ireland has paid back the debt it has to the EU, then maybe Ireland can start preaching about sponging off others. You may be waitung a long time though.

The Corinthian

partyguinness wrote: »

Christ people give it up...or take it outside...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I'm sorry, but in the last few months I've seen O'Morris peddle this agenda, carefully using language to make his views seem more acceptable. When he is taken up on them, he will at first use obfuscation and misdirection then drop out of the thread if the questions get too direct. Feel free to examine the thread cited above, and there are others there from long before I ever came across him.

and sldnt a Moderator know better then to get into this...

Moderators are only moderators on the boards they moderate. We're just normal posters everywhere else.

ejmaztec

The Corinthian wrote: »

So an 'ethnically Irish' black woman is acceptable? Is a 'ethnically Irish' woman of Irish genetic stock moreso?

And the fact that you have previously claimed that this Y-chromosome was indicative of the Irish maintaining our "pre-Neolithic genetic heritage" is now conveniently forgotten and the chromosome in question is simply a sign of virility, I see.

If you want to do it through a breeding programme, yes.

Then why do you repeatedly bring genetics into it, such as your promotion of Dr. Emmeline Hill's theories?

I am quite aware of the difference between race and ethnicity, however I am not the one who brought up the genetic factor into the mix - you did - and that is a question of race. Additionally you did not specify what you meant by ethnicity, as race is commonly a factor in ethnicity - here's a definition, in case English is not your first language:

Now, I think it would not be necessary for English to be my first, second, third or fifth language to detect when someone is attempting to use weasel words to avoid being pinned down for what they are, which is clearly someone who holds racialist views in your case.

Anyway, I think that there has been too much in-breeding on this island - just look at the leaders of this "Master Race".

K-9

O'Morris wrote: »

From an economic point of view it would help things if there were fewer people in the country competing for a shrinking number of available jobs. According to this article in the economist, if 20,000 people left the country we could see unemployment fall by a percentage point.

The Corinthian wrote: »

I'm sorry, but in the last few months I've seen O'Morris peddle this agenda, carefully using language to make his views seem more acceptable. When he is taken up on them, he will at first use obfuscation and misdirection then drop out of the thread if the questions get too direct. Feel free to examine the thread cited above, and there are others there from long before I ever came across him.

Moderators are only moderators on the boards they moderate. We're just normal posters everywhere else.

Indeed. You'll find that he starts with posts like the above.

Then when it's pointed that yes, 20,000 are already leaving (it could be reasonably expected to be far more this year), he'll move onto his real agenda. Now 20,000 isn't good enough, it has to be 20,000 immigrants leaving, not Irish.

Thing is, the way it's going, that will probably happen.

Then he'll move onto the immigrants that are here! Could be wrong but from what I've seen, it's a fair assumption!

O'Morris

The Corinthian wrote:

So an 'ethnically Irish' black woman is acceptable?

Of course she would be acceptable.

The Corinthian wrote:

And the fact that you have previously claimed that this Y-chromosome was indicative of the Irish maintaining our "pre-Neolithic genetic heritage" is now conveniently forgotten

It's not forgotten by me. The latest evidence I've seen does seem to show that most Irish men have the y chromosome of Ireland's first settlers. Maybe the Blood of the Irish programme tonight (RTE 1, 9:35pm) will show that to be untrue.

The Corinthian wrote:

If you want to do it through a breeding programme, yes.

Well then I'm not a racialist as I'm not in favour of any kind of breeding programme.

The Corinthian wrote:

Then why do you repeatedly bring genetics into it, such as your promotion of Dr. Emmeline Hill's theories?

I don't repeatedly bring genetics into it. I've only ever brought genetics into it when people lazily throw around that myth about the Irish being descended from Celts and Vikings and Normans. The recent genetic evidence has largely debunked that myth and has shown that the Irish are mainly of pre-Celtic stock.

I never said either that was a good or bad thing that the Irish are mostly descended from the first people who settled this island. It wouldn't make any difference to me if it was found that we were descended from the Mongols. It's people like you and djpbarry who tend to react more strongly to these kinds of things.

The Corinthian wrote:

I am quite aware of the difference between race and ethnicity

If you are aware of the difference then you're deliberately playing on other people's ignorance of the difference in order to put a sensationalist slant on what I've written. You know perfectly well that race doesn't have anything to do with my views on immigration.

The Corinthian wrote:

Additionally you did not specify what you meant by ethnicity,

When I say ethnicity I'm talking about a sense of peoplehood.

The Corinthian wrote:

as race is commonly a factor in ethnicity - here's a definition, in case English is not your first language:

Race is only a factor in the sense that members of the same ethnic group tend to be members of the same racial group. That does not mean that membership of the same racial group is a necessary prerequisite for membership of the same ethnic group though. It's possible for people of different races to be of the same ethnic group.

It's the same with families. Members of the same family tend to be members of the same racial group. Just because common racial descent is the norm in most families however does not mean that people of different racial backgrounds can't be part of the same family. People can adopt children of different races and they can become just as much a part of their family as their own biological children.

Seanies32 wrote:

Indeed. You'll find that he starts with posts like the above.

Then when it's pointed that yes, 20,000 are already leaving (it could be reasonably expected to be far more this year), he'll move onto his real agenda. Now 20,000 isn't good enough, it has to be 20,000 immigrants leaving, not Irish.

Thing is, the way it's going, that will probably happen.

Immigration is not an economic issue for me. It's a cultural issue and an ethnic issue. I want Ireland to still be an Irish country in a hundred years from now.

K-9

O'Morris wrote: »

Immigration is not an economic issue for me. It's a cultural issue and an ethnic issue. I want Ireland to still be an Irish country in a hundred years from now.

I don't think we have anything to worry on that front. In many ways there is more of a threat from the natives! :eek:

jmayo

veronica wrote: »

90 million euro in child benefit and 160 million to educate their children to speak english while children with special needs especially autism for ABA is being cut-back and yesterdays annocement that Carers allowance to be cut back...it's long overdue that they were asked to leave! The polish especially who spend nothing here with their own super-markets and western union in shops transfering all thir money back to poland.They got a wage while the times were good now we have a recession we own them nothing and the nigerians the same with their free Taxi plates and leaving in hotels getting 3 meals a day plus all the benefits under the Sun while we have our own people sleeping rough on the streets and the likes of simon get the bear amount to keep going. We have always looked after other nations in this country and especially our government giving so much Aid abroad always worried about our image abroad...look how good we are.Lets bring down the shutters now on Non-nationals thank you for your help during the Celtic Tiger you got well paid for what u did but you cannot now sponge off of this state no more.Give Ireland Back to the Irish!

Seen as you are asking the Poles to leave, who happen to be from a full EU member state, I hope you will be making room for all the ethnically pure red headed paddies who will be making their way back to our shores from EU countries such as Britain, Germany, Holland.

Oh and while you are talking about not contributing, maybe you should look at all the structural funds, subsidies etc that other EU states contributed to us since 1973.

Oh and please do not come back with some sh*** about our fishing industry :rolleyes:

Of course our fine governments (particularly those of FF) have doen a fantastic job at blowing our achievements.

The more I read these threads the more I think EU and Europe would be way better off without us.
After all what have we ever done for Europe ?

Reading some of the comments on here, the more I see the comments of irate French ministers post Lisbon referendum having more credence.

PS the more I hear of O'Morris's desire to procreate I think of the guy in American Pie, i.e. "the inseminator" (should read the sherminator)

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

The Corinthian

O'Morris wrote: »

Of course she would be acceptable.

And I note you edited out the follow-up question - is a 'ethnically Irish' woman of Irish genetic stock more acceptable?

It's not forgotten by me. The latest evidence I've seen does seem to show that most Irish men have the y chromosome of Ireland's first settlers.

So it's not simply a question of virility as you claimed in your previous post.

Well then I'm not a racialist as I'm not in favour of any kind of breeding programme.

You've already admitted that a 'breeding programme' is a patriotic duty. The only question is whether there are racialist criteria to this. Given your avoidance of certain questions (whether a non-genetic Irishman is less so than one who is racially Irish) and your use of genetics, the evidence does point to at the very least a preference towards genetically 'pure' Irish.

If you are aware of the difference then you're deliberately playing on other people's ignorance of the difference in order to put a sensationalist slant on what I've written. You know perfectly well that race doesn't have anything to do with my views on immigration.

I know nothing of the sort. I did not mention racial theory, you did. I however asked a direct question as to whether a poster who was racially Chinese but lived all his life in Ireland (and considered himself Irish) as Irish as a naturally born Irishman, which you failed to answer - just as you have failed to answer the question again above.

You avoid too many direct questions, use language that anyone with any training in debate or public speaking would easily identify as being purposefully obtuse and continually raise the bar as the discussion ensues, as Seanie noted.

So I'm afraid that the evidence would tend to point to you holding racialist views.

Immigration is not an economic issue for me. It's a cultural issue and an ethnic issue. I want Ireland to still be an Irish country in a hundred years from now.

Isn't pushing a social agenda under the guise of an economic one (as you have in this thread) just a little disingenuous and further underlines my above points?

dlofnep

Irish are pasty enough as it is. We could do with a few other genes to brighten us up. Less of the "ethnic Irish" nonsense. Reminds me of the type of nonsense the British National Party spurt out. What the hell does it matter what colour we are in 200 years from now? Or what genes we have? So long as we're healthy and happy, then that's all that matters.

P. Breathnach

dlofnep wrote: »

What the hell does it matter what colour we are in 200 years from now?

I care about it. I don't want my personal pigmentation package (my 3P, for short) to change other than the greying of my hair.

_Nuno_

nortal wrote: »

Oh my God, the insurance company and bank requested you to complete forms so they could substantiate you worked where you said you worked lived where you said you lived and now that is racism, I didn’t think it was racist when thy asked me I though I am a guest here and this is the way things are, if I don’t like it I could leave. Check the word racism in a dictionary, maybe the person you were dealing with was having a bad day, the definition of racism will evolve here to a point like the states where if you’re not on your knees telling people how great they are you are racist

lol....from what I could make of your post, here's my reply:

No, the forms I can handle and I would expect them in my home country as well, but them assuming that my no claim bonus from my previous insurance company was a fake just because I am a foreigner and making such trouble out of it that I just had to give it up, or getting a credit limit on a credit card that was 25% of what an Irish person applying for the first credit card gets, that I do consider discrimination.

But like I said, the Irish aren't that racist, but there are ignorant pricks everywhere, here's no exception.

GenghisCon

Frankly I think this thread beggars belief. I was going to wax lyrical on the fallacy and frighteningly Xenophobic nature of some of the posts, however this has been done much more effectively by a number of posters. I will however say that telling emigrants to go home is silly. If they pay rent here or are given accommodation then Ireland is effectively their home, if not county of origin. As long as shops that specialize in Eastern European food pay taxes they contribute to the economy, or are they exempt from VAT as well?

While I would like to see greater degrees integration (perhaps thats too strong a word, interaction) this is mostly due to the homogeneous and largely conservative nature of Irish culture. Diversity and cultural interaction is a good thing and must be encouraged. The immigrant community has the potential to greatly improve Ireland socially.

This applies to everyone and not just people from Poland. However it must be voluntary, no one can blame people for congregating amongst their own nationality, its the default initial state for any immigrant group. However integration is a two way street and people will not be likely to make an effort to integrate if they do not feel welcome. Judging from some of the remarks made here I cannot say I particularly blame any immigrant for keeping to their own group.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.