UFC 94 BJ PENN VS GSP ***Will Contain Spoilers***

Nothingcompares

George St. Pierre and Bj Penn represent the two major extremes of modern mixed martial arts. Both are incredibly well rounded, well versed in all 3 disciplines including the parts in between but one can be defined as a martial artist and the other as an athlete.

If it wasn't a fight that was coming up but rather a triathlon or a weightlifting contest who would your money be on? GSP without doubt. But if you're in a bar on the wrong side of the tracks and chairs and bottles start flying, who would you want at your back? BJ of course.

It's no surprise both GSP and BJ are considered top of the pound-for-pound ladder. GSP has developed his wrestling so much it's considered the most potent in all of mixed martial arts. Better than former Olympians' even. BJ Penn on the other hand, is a brazilian jiujitsu world champion but his boxing, is amongst the best in the sport. So while they are well rounded, they still possess exceptional strengths in different areas.

The differences in these exceptional strengths may in fact be the deciding factors in separating the winner from the loser come January 31st. Will GSP be able to take the prodigy down and control him, grind out a decision or beat his way to a Ground'n'Pound finish? Or will Bj use his freakish flexibility and take down defense to keep it on the feet and use his superior foot work and speed to pepper GSP with punches on route to the decision or to a KO? Will we see GSP submit the mundial champion from the top or will BJ pull something off from on bottom? Who's to say Bj isn't the one on top?

But I don't think that's really where this fight will be decided. I don't think anyone who has watched these fighters closely over the last few years and seen them develop from rookie to champion in the case of St Pierre and from lazy to highly driven in the case of Penn will doubt either of their hearts. But I think their courage comes from totally different sources.

BJ Penn is a technician, a fighter and a martial artist. Bj's strengths aren't his cardiovascular endurance or his explosiveness but rather his willingness to drill the same technique hundreds, thousands of times to gain that technical mastery. Not only that but he goes into every fight, every tournament with one goal, to beat his opponent as quickly and as definitively as possible. Sometimes there is a grudge giving him that extra drive, Sherk's alleged steroid use, Pulver's smugness for beating him years before. Was there any surprise that BJ wanted to taste the blood of his beaten foe or hold that choke on a moment too long just to prove a point? When it comes to the octagon Bj Penn is ruthless. It's a war. If anyone personifies martial spirit in this sport it's BJ Penn.

George St Pierre is the ultimate combat athlete. His strength, his endurance, his explosiveness has no peer. Unlike many of the American contenders in the UFC Welterweight devision, Georges does not have a wrestling pedigree dating back to junior high school. Basically, GSP took up the sport as an adult and within a matter of years, developed it to such a high degree in the MMA context that he blows NCAA champions like Koschech out of the wrestling water. What BJ Penn did to Jiujitsu as a young adult is what GSP did to wrestling. But GSP did it in one of the most athletically demanding endeavors there is.

GSP never talks smack. He doesn't engage in non-professional rivalries, he's soft spoken in interviews and by all accounts the complete gentlemen in person. Never shown to party hard or get in trouble with the law, the French Canadian however, is relentless in the cage. He pushes a pace so fast no one can match his 'rhythm'. He starts from the first bell to the last with the goal of overwhelming his opponent not only with his skill but with his fitness. GSP never takes his foot off the gas, not because he hates you but because he's a top level athlete competing and that's how they operate. In the cage BJ Penn may be ruthless but GSP is relentless and if there is a fighter that personifies the combat athlete with the heart of supped up lion it's Georges 'Rush' St Pierre.

BJ Penn may be the technical genius in this fight, but GSP may have the tactical advantage. GSP will be happy to take a 4th or 5th round TKO or even a decision. BJ on the other hand, may want to get this fight over and done with before it gets past the third. BJ's intent to finish this fight as soon as possible may lead him right into the jaws of GSP.

I think the defending champion is the favourite, he has the size and strength advantage being naturally a bigger person than BJ. GSP may eventually have to make a move up to 185 due to his impressive physique. BJ on the other hand, looked perfect at 155. In summary,

GSP
Wrestling
Cardio
Strength
Size
Heart

BJ Penn
Boxing
Bjj
Heart

Conclusion: the most exciting sporting event of my life time. It won't be decided on the size of their respective hearts but on which is more potent in the octagon, the martial artist's or the athlete's.

Bj penn by TKO r3

Dragan

Fantastic post mate, that was a pleasure to read.

Karmafaerie

Karmafaerie wrote: »

BJ should never move above 170.
Look at what happened when he foaght Machida at 205.
Penn he tried to bulk up, and came out at a fat 180-90 pds.

Machida didnt school him at all. That was a close fight.

ginoginelli

Karmafaerie wrote: »

BJ should never move above 170.
Look at what happened when he foaght Machida at 205.
Penn he tried to bulk up, and came out at a fat 180-90 pds.

I seriously think that BJ will struggle (a tiny tiny bit) at 170, so him at 185 would just take his cardio down even more.

Did you watch the machida fight? Penn won the first round and stayed competitive throughout..Penn didnt take his bulking up very seriously either, which is evident from his physique..

Im sure his new S&C coach could get him up to 190 or so the right way..it worked for hollyfield, jones and hoost among others. His best weight is at 155, but theres no doubt he can compete at 185..

Whether he could win the belt is another matter, but if he beats gsp, and he still wants to do it, id say make this fight happen.

dunkamania

Amazing post Kev!

I would have thrown in the Jackson camp being behind GSP. We dont know what GSP's gameplan will be, but it will be good.

bjj-fan

its going to be a cracking fight

as for bj moving up weight,after seeing the him fight machida he could easily do 185lb, i wouldn't write bj off in any fight at any wieght

Nothingcompares

dunkamania wrote: »

Amazing post Kev!

I would have thrown in the Jackson camp being behind GSP. We dont know what GSP's gameplan will be, but it will be good.

i was supposed to throw that in at the end but forgot!

cowzerp

ginoginelli wrote: »

I dont buy into the "theres weight classes for a reason" argument that comes up, when smaller fighters, fighting larger ones, are discussed. If its a goodstyle match up the weight doesnt matter as much.

Im assuming your not a fighter, weight is a massive thing when all things else are equal..

ginoginelli

cowzerp wrote: »

Im assuming your not a fighter, weight is a massive thing when all things else are equal..

Im not disputing that..

It doesnt take a genius to know that when you get two fighters equal in all departments, but one is heavier, the heavier one will obviously have a big advantage.

My point is if its a good style match up, the weight wont necessarily play as big a part in the outcome.

mark.leonard

Nothingcompares wrote: »

GSP never talks smack. He doesn't engage in non-professional rivalries,

George St-Pierre wrote:

I'm not impressed, with your performance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl-beMYQ-K0

cowzerp

ginoginelli wrote: »

Im not disputing that..

It doesnt take a genius to know that when you get two fighters equal in all departments, but one is heavier, the heavier one will obviously have a big advantage.

My point is if its a good style match up, the weight wont necessarily play as big a part in the outcome.

There both top level and BJ would be mashed, not because he's worse but because physically he would be dominated.

Karmafaerie

Yes I have seen the Machida fight.

One where Penn tried lots, but did very little.

It was Machida's 6th MMA fight, And the notoriously defensive fighter, managed an easy victory over the smaller man.
Penn always wins the first round (although I wouldn't put money on that in a few weeks), but Machida was never once troubled, by one of the "pound for pound" fighters in the world.
Why?
Cause Penn, can't go up in weight that much.
The reason his new conditioning regime is working so well for him, is that he's at the right weight for him.
Penn isn't the same kind of athelite as Hollyfield or Hoost, and Jones is simply Jones.

If Penn goes up in weight, he'll be the same Penn we all know and were frustrated (for him) by.

Dragan

I agree to be honest. Everyone has a limit as to how much weight they should carry, and that weight makes a massive difference. I am at my lightest now that i have every been after a year out from training, yet my cardio is actually off the charts compared to where it was. All those pounds of muscle make a massive difference.

There is also the simple fact that structurally and genetically...Penn is not cut out to be a massive, heavy man. A incredibly skilled one yes, but not big in the real sense of the word.

I would say, that for all his physical gifts, BJ simply has a lower cardio threshold that a lot of the top MMA fighters. It's just one of those other variances that come into play...another kind of natural ability...how your body deals with oxygen deficency...and Penn's body is simply not world class in that respect.

He is best of at 155, his natural weight, or 170.

I would put money on a lean 185 Penn suffering exactly the same cardio issues as he did in the past, out of shape at the lower weights.

dunkamania

A little bit harsh Karma. I felt the Machida fight was closer than that, plus Penn is far superior fighter now too.

Key point is, moving from LW to WW is one thing, LW to LHW being a whole differnt ball game.

Karmafaerie

dunkamania wrote: »

A little bit harsh Karma. I felt the Machida fight was closer than that, plus Penn is far superior fighter now too.

Key point is, moving from LW to WW is one thing, LW to LHW being a whole differnt ball game.

I'm not saying it wasn't close, just that he never really troubled Machida.
Lyoto is an extremely defensive fighter.
You have to take the fight to him, and at the heavy weight, BJ just couldn't.
If Penn had did to Machida, what he did to Sherk, Lyoto wouldn't have his perfect record right now!
But Penn can't do at 205 what he can at 155.

and I'm not saying that Penn can't compete at 170, he's one of the worlds best at 170.
I said he shouldn't go higher.
The original point was one of Penn going to 185, which I think is a division too far for BJ.
Penn should, and IMO will stick to 170/155.

rovert

WOW

LeoGilly

WOW indeed! But whats with the english flags? There really pushing this card! Cant wait for this fight. Its gonna be a war!! Haven't a clue who will win. There both just incredible at what they do!

ginoginelli

Combat sports history is littered with great fighters punching and grappiling above their weight. Is silva a bridge too far for bj? quite possibly yes...Has he got a chance..most defintely YES.

rovert

LeoGilly wrote: »

WOW indeed! But whats with the english flags?

The English flag is the St. Geogres Cross.

LeoGilly

Sorry. Whats with British flags then?

MartyMcFly84

LeoGilly wrote: »

WOW indeed! But whats with the english flags? There really pushing this card! Cant wait for this fight. Its gonna be a war!! Haven't a clue who will win. There both just incredible at what they do!

em they are the canadian and hawaiian flags(has a small union jack in the corner as it used to be a British protectorate). The English flag is the st.georges cross (which again isnt in the picture). Sorry for being a stickler

Pride Fighter

LeoGilly wrote: »

Sorry. Whats with British flags then?

Its a Hawaiian flag.

ginoginelli

The ufcs show bj penn/ st pierre primetime aired last nite..

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=aAcQjmdwDAs&eurl=http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/those-who-missed-penn-pierre-ii-primetime-all-parts-901563/

Sm0ke

i think BJ might take this one, im not a fan of his i just think hes gonna beat GSP on the groud!!! This is gonna be good tough!

slightly excessive with this comment :

"for the fight many are calling not only the fight of the year, but the fight of the decade"

lol

couture fedor will be the fight of the year for 2009 XD


Penn wud not be able to beat machida in his wildest dreams tbh! Machida is one of the only fighters around that is literally a karate fighter, he uses his discpline incredibly, for alot of people this can look like a bad fight. Of course it isnt, because of the sheer defensive skill of machida, hes incredibly adept out there but i think because he doesnt have as much marketability he may have to wait a little longer for his eventual title shot. Alves is a great fighter aswell so it will be sad to see him handed his first loss in the octagon but hes young and skilled so im sure we will see much more from him

MartyMcFly84

Wow after watching the primetime, it doesnt seem like BJ is dedicating himself to this fight like he should,:mad: wtf???. Ive only had two fights but I wouldnt piss off on a holiday for 5 days in the middle of my training for a fight, one or two days a week chilling out max. And u better believe GSP probally spent those 5 days and nights doing non-stop sprints or somthing.

I can see a repeat of the 1st fight BJ having a good 1st round then start to gas and GSP will keep pressuring like a mofo.

Sm0ke

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

Wow after watching the primetime, it doesnt seem like BJ is dedicating himself to this fight like he should,:mad: wtf???. Ive only had two fights but I wouldnt piss off on a holiday for 5 days in the middle of my training for a fight, one or two days a week chilling out max. And u better believe GSP probally spent those 5 days and nights doing non-stop sprints or somthing.

I can see a repeat of the 1st fight BJ having a good 1st round then start to gas and GSP will keep pressuring like a mofo.

In GSP's own words "ill sleep when i die" XD

dunkamania

Sm0ke wrote: »

Penn wud not be able to beat machida in his wildest dreams tbh! Machida is one of the only fighters around that is literally a karate fighter, he uses his discpline incredibly, for alot of people this can look like a bad fight. Of course it isnt, because of the sheer defensive skill of machida, hes incredibly adept out there but i think because he doesnt have as much marketability he may have to wait a little longer for his eventual title shot. Alves is a great fighter aswell so it will be sad to see him handed his first loss in the octagon but hes young and skilled so im sure we will see much more from him

Your kinda all over the place here. By my reckoning, BJ nearly beat Machida. Great that Machida has a unique karate inspired style, but it was a natural LW vs a LHW, so not a huge victory. Confused about the reference to Alves, who is going to beat him?

Karmafaerie

dunkamania wrote: »

Your kinda all over the place here. By my reckoning, BJ nearly beat Machida. Great that Machida has a unique karate inspired style, but it was a natural LW vs a LHW, so not a huge victory. Confused about the reference to Alves, who is going to beat him?

I think he's confusing Thiago Silva with Thiago Alves.


And Penn would not beat Anderson Silva in a month of Sundays.
I know anything can happen in a fight, but Silva is better on his feet, a better grappler, better in the clinch, has better cardio, and while Penn is better on the ground, everyone often forgets that Silva is a BJJ blackbelt, himself, and a good one at that.

hitman119

BJ would hammer Anderson Silva, BJ has better stand up and better ground, and for his cardio trianing will he likes to take things easy some times but over all his a well rounded fighter and i can see him taking GSP, and then maybe if Dana White needs the cash:p. BJ Vs Anderson Silva

Sm0ke

dunkamania wrote: »

Your kinda all over the place here. By my reckoning, BJ nearly beat Machida. Great that Machida has a unique karate inspired style, but it was a natural LW vs a LHW, so not a huge victory. Confused about the reference to Alves, who is going to beat him?

yeah apologies for my last post im not really sure what im on about in it. I hadnt slept in 36 hours!

I wasnt saying it was a huge vistory i was just making the point that imho machida is untouchable to penn. This was just in response to whomever was saying that penn cud have beat him or wud if the weights etc were equal!

I was also trying to get at (in a very dazed way!) how intresting Machida's style is and how refreshing it is to see styles changed up and used like he does and I was trying to get in before the calls of "machida is crap/boring etc". I think I love the style aswell because it shuts Frank Shamrock up. He made the comment on inside MMA a few months back that "mma hasnt improved or change in 8 years" or close to that.

and ROFLFAIL at me calling Silva, Alves XD