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Atheistic Beliefs?

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    #32
    sukikettle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭sukikettle


    I regard aethiests as headbangers and preachy too.Now funny that but I rather be persecuted for God than Satan


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    #33
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Rest assured you are a headbanger to many here. :)


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    #34
    sukikettle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭sukikettle


    Claire deemed herself good...by whose standards and morals please. Who sets the bar in the non-believing kingdom and what keeps you in check if not the ten commandments by which you are morally set to whether you want to be or not


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    #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    sukikettle wrote: »
    I regard aethiests as headbangers and preachy too.Now funny that but I rather be persecuted for God than Satan

    I wish I could see what Zeus has to say about this! What'll happen when you die and confront him? For him to say that you never worshipped him and that you're going to be eternally damned?


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    #36
    eoin5
    Registered Users Posts: 2,141 ✭✭✭eoin5


    Jakkass wrote: »
    See theism is only of different explanations due to the fact that theism makes up different ideologies such as Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism and so on.

    Sorry to nitpick but Buddhism is a bit different, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Buddhism . Buddhism largely denies a perfect creator god who can intervene in our lives, which seems to me to be to be the only sensible way of describing the theistic god.


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    #37
    sukikettle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭sukikettle


    Dades you don't know me any more than I know you...and being a Christian is not something for you to spit so much venom at. Don't forget you'll be wrong and I'll be right one day


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    #38
    sukikettle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭sukikettle


    Jammy don't make me giggle


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    #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    sukikettle wrote: »
    Jammy don't make me giggle

    Don't dare deny the existance of Zeus suki.


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    #40
    sukikettle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭sukikettle


    Suki devours last jammydodger from the top layer of a tin of Fox's ;)


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    #41
    sukikettle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭sukikettle


    Jammy are you talking about the greek washing powder Zeus...I've seen it. It is excellent at removing egg but not sin ;)


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    #42
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    sukikettle wrote: »
    Suki devours last jammydodger from the top layer of a tin of Fox's ;)

    Ah but they're not made by Fox's:p
    sukikettle wrote: »
    Jammy are you talking about the greek washing powder Zeus...I've seen it. It is excellent at removing egg but not sin ;)

    We will see come judgement day suki, we will see.


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    #43
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    These discussions never fail to amaze me....... Everybody seems to be so convinced as to, essentially, the presence or absence of God (in one shape or another.

    For thos e who believe, they must harbour some genuine concerns that there is no God given the lack of any real scientific evidence for His existence. All historical/anecdotal evidence for His existence is, being generous, doubtful. For most reasonable people, believing in something so fundamentally is fundamentally counter-intuitive.

    For those who do not, how do you explain that, over the course of modern history, to the present day, the vast majority of the human population has believed in a God/Power/Spirit/Supreme Being/Whatever of some kind - these beliefs have often developed entirely independently of each other and have persisted and are incorporated into the constitutions/similar alternative of almost all modern states. The only alternative explanation is a mass delusion experienced by the earth's population which includes the majority of the scholars/scientists/philosophers etc of this and any order age.


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    #44
    cocoa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭cocoa


    As it was discussed earlier in the thread... Personally, I'll always stick to the most basic and linguistic definition of Atheism, it means without theism, without the belief in a deity or deities. It is important to note that this leaves room for two distinct types of Atheists, often referred to as weak and strong atheists, those who do not believe god exists, and those who believe god does not exist.

    Personally, I feel weak atheist is synonymous with agnostic and will always use the term agnostic myself to avoid confusion, but it's not wrong to use the term atheist to describe someone who merely doesn't care either way and doesn't actively believe a god does or does not exist.

    Having said that, it should be clear that atheism is indeed a lack of belief and cannot be described as a positive belief in something else. There is no common denominator amongst atheist, no common belief or approach to life. Newborn babies are atheists, as are, one might reasonably assume, most of the animal kingdom.

    Personally, I'm an agnostic, as far as I'm concerned we have no way of knowing if a god or gods does or does not exist, I don't think it affects me, I don't care about it and I would never deny that it's all possible, merely that it is pointless to discuss it.

    Oh and I like rational thought too, but I wouldn't describe it as an approach or something to believe in, it's just something you do, hopefully most of the time. I like to think rationally, as by my definition anyway, it leads to the results I desired.


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    #45
    sukikettle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭sukikettle


    :p Fox's do make them.In fact there are several 'jammydodgers' but only one God. I prefer the ones with cream...the true jammydodgers are stubborn and sticky and don't melt very well. It would take something a little hotter than tea eh Jam?


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    #46
    sukikettle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭sukikettle


    I don't read posts longer than 2-3 lines. It's too late for all that


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    #47
    sukikettle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭sukikettle


    We are three dimensional. If God were 10 then there is no way we'd see Him even though he'd be all around us. Just like if you dipped your finger into a two dimensional world all that person would see is a circle. Get my point?


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    #48
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    dont we have 4 dimensions..........?

    so God could be fingering all of us right now? wow, thats deep........


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    #49
    cocoa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭cocoa


    @ sukikettle:

    please stop making several posts one after the other, think before you post or if you must, use edit. It would be appreciated.

    Also, it would be nice if you could stop going way off topic, actually read what other posters said, made a coherent reply to this, instead of just rambling pointlessly, and ignoring anyone who does make the effort to organise their thoughts so everyone can understand and enjoy the discussion.

    Seriously, this could be a nice interesting discussion, as far as I can tell all you're doing is being childish.


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    #50
    sukikettle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭sukikettle


    Dark I said 10 so that covers 4 and Cocoa lighten up


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    #51
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    eoin5 wrote: »
    Sorry to nitpick but Buddhism is a bit different, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Buddhism . Buddhism largely denies a perfect creator god who can intervene in our lives, which seems to me to be to be the only sensible way of describing the theistic god.
    Sorry to nitpick about you nitpicking :)
    But buddhism is agnostic on the subject, added to which the supernatural is very present in its beliefs and goals. A quick google on brahma and sakka will show the idea of gods is very present in eastern Buddhism, though the gods are note the same as the form given by Christianity, Judaism and Islam.


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    #52
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    studiorat wrote: »
    How many variations of Christianity are there? I'll bet every single contributor over next door has a different slant on how they see their relationship with JC. Just like every atheist sees their opinion as more or less important in their day to day lives.

    Besides I'm a dyed in the wool atheist and I'm the most un-reasonable and irrational person you'll find in a days walk. Really! I believe there is no God...

    Fair enough. However, the variations only came after people were reading the Bible and wanted to get the most accurate view on it possible. Really they are a quality control in a sense. Personally I'm very ecumenical, and if anyone "puts a different slant" on how they see their relationship with JC (mind you everyone I have discussed with about my faith of different denominations agrees with me a lot about faith experiences) it's really up to them. However the issue is if they delegitimise my relationship with Jesus, I personally think if people follow the Biblical scriptures concerning Jesus' commandments and if they genuinely do care about the Gospel then they are Christians.


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    #53
    pH
    Registered Users Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    drkpower wrote: »
    For those who do not, how do you explain that, over the course of modern history, to the present day, the vast majority of the human population has believed in a God/Power/Spirit/Supreme Being/Whatever of some kind - these beliefs have often developed entirely independently of each other and have persisted and are incorporated into the constitutions/similar alternative of almost all modern states.

    I'm not sure the statement is either true or needs explaining. Humans have believed in many different things, the current "in vogue" idea of a single creator God, who listens to us and judges us on death is very different from older polytheistic beliefs, which in turn are very different from ancestor spirit worship.

    People have been superstitious (in a non religious way) for this period of time too, doesn't mean that black cats, broken mirrors or walking under ladders actually causes bad luck.
    The only alternative explanation is a mass delusion experienced by the earth's population which includes the majority of the scholars/scientists/philosophers etc of this and any order age.

    The idea that some people/families are "born special" and deserve to rule the rest of us has been around as well, was that a mass delusion? Does that make our current notion that "all men are born equal" somehow less valid or less true?


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    #54
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    drkpower wrote: »
    The only alternative explanation is a mass delusion experienced by the earth's population which includes the majority of the scholars/scientists/philosophers etc of this and any order age.
    I wouldn't be so quick to include the majority of "scholars/scientists/philosophers" of today as believers.

    As to why so many believe, well, isn't it comforting?


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    #55
    MackDeToaster
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭MackDeToaster


    sukikettle wrote: »
    Claire deemed herself good...by whose standards and morals please. Who sets the bar in the non-believing kingdom and what keeps you in check if not the ten commandments by which you are morally set to whether you want to be or not

    Think about this if you can...

    You are a good god-fearing muslim in Iraq with a daughter you love. Your daughter starts talking with a British soldier. This is horrific, you love her very much but he is an infidel. So you call in your sons and nephews to help, kill her. You are arrested but released without charge once you explain to the police what happened.

    But for some reason your wife is horrified and tries to leave you, she does not understand this is the punishment the holy book lays down. So you kill her too - she has dare to leave her rightful place as proscribed by the holy book. By your standards, morals and faith this is entirely the right thing to do.


    True story btw.


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    #56
    MackDeToaster
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭MackDeToaster


    sukikettle wrote: »
    I don't read posts longer than 2-3 lines. It's too late for all that

    Oh. Well I needn't have bothered then.


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    #57
    studiorat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Fair enough. However, the variations only came after people were reading the Bible and wanted to get the most accurate view on it possible. Really they are a quality control in a sense. Personally I'm very ecumenical, and if anyone "puts a different slant" on how they see their relationship with JC (mind you everyone I have discussed with about my faith of different denominations agrees with me a lot about faith experiences) it's really up to them. However the issue is if they delegitimise my relationship with Jesus, I personally think if people follow the Biblical scriptures concerning Jesus' commandments and if they genuinely do care about the Gospel then they are Christians.

    Apologies for the "different slant" phrase, it is crude...
    Two things though, surely you are the only person who can legitimize your relationship with Jesus (for example;)).

    Also, I'd agree if they do care about the Gospel you could define them as Christians. But I would think there are many interpretations of scripture and not all of them would be particularly obscure when it comes to their application in the everyday. What defines a sin for example springs to mind.
    There are many beliefs and dis-beliefs in the Christian world and they don't always concur.

    Either way I think as long as you are true to what you believe and to yourself you are doing the right thing.
    (disclaimer: the above obviously does not condone rape, murder, genocide etc)


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    #58
    studiorat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    sukikettle wrote: »
    I don't read posts longer than 2-3 lines. It's too late for all that

    It's never too late. Adult Ed can always help.


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    #59
    cocoa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭cocoa


    sukikettle wrote: »
    I don't read posts longer than 2-3 lines. It's too late for all that

    *lightens up*

    I don't read posts more moronic than a two year old.

    I don't read holy books.

    Wait, seriously, how did you read the bible? did you?

    Although it's all very nice making pointless digs, it can also be nice to actually discuss the topic...


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    #60
    Húrin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭Húrin


    -JammyDodger- wrote: »
    I wish I could see what Zeus has to say about this! What'll happen when you die and confront him? For him to say that you never worshipped him and that you're going to be eternally damned?
    The Greek religion made no claims to universality. It was ethnocentric. Also, it has been proven that that Zeus does not live on Mount Olympus!

    In such a situation you would be equally screwed, so what's there to gloat about? I'm amazed how so few atheists see what a weak argument the fact that there have been thousands of gods is.
    seanybiker wrote: »
    From reading the boards over the last while it seems to me thats its the belivers that think they are higher up than us non believers.
    I'll agree with you when I stop seeing practically every second post made by an atheist implies or even declares their superior rationality and powers of logical thought.
    I have no problem with people having beliefs, each to their own, just seems that people with belifs look down on us athiests as lower class people.
    I think it's the other way round. Richard Dawkins ridicules the intelligence of theists, but I haven't seen any serious refutations to him that ridicule the intelligence of atheists.


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    #61
    studiorat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    Húrin wrote: »
    I haven't seen any serious refutations to him that ridicule the intelligence of atheists.

    Maybe you should read the bible. Pslam 14.


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