Time to kick out the Israeli Ambassador?

Mont

Hammiepeters wrote: »

As you say, Israel has a right to exist as does Gaza. Gaza does not however have the right to shoot rockets at israeli citizens and harbour terrorists, raise suicide bombers, etc. This latest conflict was provoked by Hamas to get a violent response, endanger it's own people and use outrage around the world to advance its own looney agenda. 9/11, 7/7, Bali and other outragous acts of Islaamic fanaticism have wakened a lot of people worldwide to the reality that Israels' enemy is also our enemy and will come our way soon enough. All violence is deplorable as is all war. However you can not have peace just by wishing for it. Israel must be allowed and supported to finish this mission asap. That means that we keep in touch with them at very least. This thread will go downhill very quick. Any bets for the first Northern Ireland comparison, reference to the Haulocaust, Jewish Nazis, et ? Let the games begin.

I bet you think Sky News is the best news channel as well

K-9

ShooterSF wrote: »

Fair enough. Though the Swedish Prime minister didn't condmn Israel he wants a cease-fire from both sides so the can try and re-open communications. I'd imagine most want that. I have no problem there. He didnt condemn the Israeli attacks though.

Better add for the second time because it will be ignored, FF called for the same.

Saibh

Judgement Day wrote: »

Kicking out the Ambassador might (Ho, ho, ho..) embarrass other EU countries into doing the same. It is better than doing absolutely nothing. Can't see what it has to do with Neutrality! The trouble with Ireland is it's a great country for talk but when push comes to shove the State buries its head in the sand.

I don't think it will embarrass any other EU country to do the same.

Judgement Day wrote: »

Sweden's Prime Minister called for an immediate ceasefire last Sunday -
http://www.menassat.com/?q=en/news-articles/5611-gaza-protests-increase-eu-countries

The Swiss have been very active since early last year in condemning the 'concentrating' and blockading of the Palestinians in the Gaza enclave.

That is only one country

Judgement Day wrote: »

And might one ask just how many civilians have to die in Gaza before you show some sparky of humanity?????:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Overuse of :mad:

Hammiepeters

brianthebard wrote: »

Wow did you go to debating class?

I just dont think your reference to the west bank is any more valid than a reference to 1948. The entire conflict resolve around the existence of the state of Israel. The current offensive was started as result of constant rocket attacks from gaza. Hamas would say that it started when Israel attacked a smuggling tunnel and killed some terrorists smuggling rockets.

Judgement Day

Seanies32 wrote: »

Did Our ould Michael Martin not call for the same.

Or is it different when Sweden does it?

Micheal Martin has made a couple of comments recently calling for a cessation of Israel's attacks on Gaza but obviously it meant little. What can we do to try and stop things - the following possiblities exist.

1. Declare war on Israel in favour of Hamas - clearly ridiculous.
2. Let Micheal Martin continue his occasional comments - not working.
3. Ban all trade with Israel until attacks stopped - a next step after the Ambassador is asked to leave.
4. Kick out the Ambassador.
5. Do nothing - option favoured by a number of posters here.

Hammiepeters

Mont wrote: »

I bet you think Sky News is the best news channel as well

And I bet you watch Al Jezerah or Nickleodeon

tolosenc

Judgement Day wrote: »

And might one ask just how many civilians have to die in Gaza before you show some sparky of humanity?????:mad::mad::mad::mad:

But if Hamas didn't use the regular people of Palestine as human shields for their terrorist agenda, there wouldn't be this problem.

Holsten

There shouldn't even be an Israeli embassy here in the first place.

ShooterSF

Judgement Day wrote: »

Micheal Martin has made a couple of comments recently calling for a cessation of Israel's attacks on Gaza but obviously it meant little. What can we do to try and stop things - the following possiblities exist.

1. Declare war on Israel in favour of Hamas - clearly ridiculous.
2. Let Micheal Martin continue his occasional comments - not working.
3. Ban all trade with Israel until attacks stopped - a next step after the Ambassador is asked to leave.
4. Kick out the Ambassador.
5. Do nothing - option favoured by a number of posters here.

Yay the will of the majority succeeds. A rare win for democracy.

Hammiepeters

obl wrote: »

But if Hamas didn't use the regular people of Palestine as human shields for their terrorist agenda, there wouldn't be this problem.

Exactly

Adamcp898

Stekelly wrote: »

So why the "kill all the infidels " crap about the rest of us? I dont remember every cristian country getting together and forcing them from anywhere.

Well you could go as far back as The Crusades......................or we could only go as far back as the 20's and get into how Israel was actually formed but that's just full of too many technicalities and it's late and it's AH :pac:

Mont

What would be funny was if Brian Cowen came out and declared that Ireland no longer recognises Israel as a state and that it should be wiped off the map - akin to the Iranian Presidents speech while back - now that would make a few headlines

Judgement Day

Holsten wrote: »

There shouldn't even be an Israeli embassy here in the first place.

Nice racist remark - Why shouldn't Israel have an Embassy in Ireland?

youcrazyjesus!

Mark200 wrote: »

So much for being neutral

It's not about neutrality, we're neutral in the NATO sense and WWII sense. That doesn't preclude us from taking a stance on human rights issues.

youcrazyjesus!

Judgement Day wrote: »

Nice racist remark - Why shouldn't Israel have an Embassy in Ireland?

How is the remark racist? Please explain. Disagree with it, fine, but to call it racist is wrong. It devalues the claim when used accurately.

ShooterSF

Mont wrote: »

What would be funny was if Brian Cowen came out and declared that Ireland no longer recognises Israel as a state and that it should be wiped off the map - akin to the Iranian Presidents speech while back - now that would make a few headlines

True as he'd seriously be over-stepping his power as taoiseach and we could finally be rid of him.

youcrazyjesus!

Hammiepeters wrote: »

I just dont think your reference to the west bank is any more valid than a reference to 1948. The entire conflict resolve around the existence of the state of Israel. The current offensive was started as result of constant rocket attacks from gaza. Hamas would say that it started when Israel attacked a smuggling tunnel and killed some terrorists smuggling rockets.

Reports from The Guardian and CNN say Israel broke the ceasefire. The conflict did not begin last Novermber either.

Hammiepeters

Mont wrote: »

Israel as a state and that it should be wiped off the map - akin to the Iranian Presidents speech while back - now that would make a few headlines

Unfortunately that is what Israel is up against. We will all be up against same in some form at some time in the future. At that time the bleeding hearts who constantly crap on about Palestine will have an opportunity to feel the heat from those they supported.

ShooterSF

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

It's not about neutrality, we're neutral in the NATO sense and WWII sense. That doesn't preclude us from taking a stance on human rights issues.

Are you saying Israel are committing war crimes?

tolosenc

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

It's not about neutrality, we're neutral in the NATO sense and WWII sense. That doesn't preclude us from taking a stance on human rights issues.

OK, we should then call for Hamas to cease all rocket attacks on Israel, disarm, leave government and surrender themselves to The Hague. Israel is acting in self defence. Just because you like rooting for the little guy doesn't make them infallible. I mean, at what point did a group of terrorists that seized power under questionable circumstances, who attacked a sovereign nation after a 6 month cease fire, and continued these attacks after warnings about what would happen if they did not stop become the good guys?

Mont

obl wrote: »

But if Hamas didn't use the regular people of Palestine as human shields for their terrorist agenda, there wouldn't be this problem.

Now you definitely watch Sky News - this is the Israelis excuse for killing more Palestinians - i mean a third of all killed over the past 2 weeks has been Palestinian children (nearly 300) - all journalists have been banned from the Gaza Strip so that only innocent Israel knows the true extent of the war crimes they are committing

They are doing to the Palestine people what happened to them during the World War.

K-9

Judgement Day wrote: »

Micheal Martin has made a couple of comments recently calling for a cessation of Israel's attacks on Gaza but obviously it meant little. What can we do to try and stop things - the following possiblities exist.

1. Declare war on Israel in favour of Hamas - clearly ridiculous.
2. Let Micheal Martin continue his occasional comments - not working.
3. Ban all trade with Israel until attacks stopped - a next step after the Ambassador is asked to leave.
4. Kick out the Ambassador.
5. Do nothing - option favoured by a number of posters here.

A poll in AH methinks?

Which do you think will work seeing as Michaels pleading hasn't?

Hammiepeters

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Reports from The Guardian and CNN say Israel broke the ceasefire. The conflict did not begin last Novermber either.

A ceasefire where Hamas built up smuggled rockets was not a ceasefire.

Judgement Day

Originally Posted by obl View Post
But if Hamas didn't use the regular people of Palestine as human shields for their terrorist agenda, there wouldn't be this problem.

From what I understand of the situation in Gaza and its high population density it is difficult for the civilian population not to be in close proximity to Hamas positions. Anyway it does not allow Israel to off the hook for behaving like terrorists themselves. From a purely pragmatic view does it not occur to them that the longer this 'war' goes on the more recruits Hamas will gain. Imagine if the British Govt. had adopted the same policy in ireland during the recent troubles - they clearly learnt something from the Black & Tan debacle!

youcrazyjesus!

Seanies32 wrote: »

I agree in a way, still, it seems the obliteration of the Israeli state is the only thing that will keep Hamas happy.

This is incorrect. Hamas has offered Israel a 10-year ceasefire and de facto recognition, with a view to making the peace permanent. Google it.

People who actually know something on the subject, journalists, academics (not the right-wing economics professors who take to the air ways to prevent debate kind) and so on say Hamas recognise the two-state solution principle. As does Jimmy Carter, who blames Israel for a lack of negotiation on the subject.

Stop bleating on about things you clearly no nothing about, you and the other 100 people rehashing soundbites that mean absolutely nothing.

grenache

ShooterSF wrote: »

If we kick him out what of our so-called neutrality?

Its nothing got to do with being neutral or not. Its about solidarity with those people in Gaza who are going through untold suffering right now.

Judgement Day

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

How is the remark racist? Please explain. Disagree with it, fine, but to call it racist is wrong. It devalues the claim when used accurately.

OK it was a stupid remark rather than racist - I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Guy:Incognito

Mont wrote: »

all journalists have been banned from the Gaza Strip so that only innocent Israel knows the true extent of the war crimes they are committing
.

and you of course.

Hammiepeters

Mont wrote: »

They are doing to the Palestine people what happened to them during the World War.

There it is! First comparison to the Haulocaust. Now. NI Catholics. Any takers?

youcrazyjesus!

Hammiepeters wrote: »

A ceasefire where Hamas built up smuggled rockets was not a ceasefire.

Again, the mainstream media reported Hamas jailed those who launched rockets and reduced rocket attacks by over 90%. Hamas are not the only militant group in Gaza. They made credible attempts to end rocket fire. Israel gave them back nothing, carried out assassinations which ended the ceasefire. Again, the CNN and The Guardian report this as fact.

There is a debate on the politics board, 155 Palestinians = 1 Israel. It covers all this. For anybody interested in facts not rhetoric it's a good read.

j1smithy

all this over a f**kin footballer that wasnt even that good :pac:

youcrazyjesus!

Hammiepeters wrote: »

There it is! First comparison to the Haulocaust. Now. NI Catholics. Any takers?

It's called the Holocaust. It's the opinion of some Israeli military people and many academics and right-wing politicians in Israel, that yes, Israel carries out some tactics which also occured during WWII against Jews.

youcrazyjesus!

Judgement Day wrote: »

OK it was a stupid remark rather than racist - I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

I didn't make the original remark, it's only back 1 page.

How is it stupid? You or I might not agree with it but's a perfectly legitimate position to take on it.

K-9

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Reports from The Guardian and CNN say Israel broke the ceasefire. The conflict did not begin last Novermber either.

Thanks for that.

Judgement Day wrote: »

Originally Posted by obl View Post
But if Hamas didn't use the regular people of Palestine as human shields for their terrorist agenda, there wouldn't be this problem.

From what I understand of the situation in Gaza and its high population density it is difficult for the civilian population not to be in close proximity to Hamas positions. Anyway it does not allow Israel to off the hook for behaving like terrorists themselves. From a purely pragmatic view does it not occur to them that the longer this 'war' goes on the more recruits Hamas will gain. Imagine if the British Govt. had adopted the same policy in ireland during the recent troubles - they clearly learnt something from the Black & Tan debacle!

Fair point, though we did use it to an extent.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

This is incorrect. Hamas has offered Israel a 10-year ceasefire and de facto recognition, with a view to making the peace permanent. Google it.

People who actually know something on the subject, journalists, academics (not the right-wing economics professors who take to the air ways to prevent debate kind) and so on say Hamas recognise the two-state solution principle. As does Jimmy Carter, who blames Israel for a lack of negotiation on the subject.

Stop bleating on about things you clearly no nothing about, you and the other 100 people rehashing soundbites that mean absolutely nothing.

Grand, my mind is open as I don't blame one side over another. Links please. educate me!

starn

Has Ireland ever actually thrown out any ambassador.

youcrazyjesus!

obl wrote: »

OK, we should then call for Hamas to cease all rocket attacks on Israel, disarm, leave government and surrender themselves to The Hague. Israel is acting in self defence. Just because you like rooting for the little guy doesn't make them infallible. I mean, at what point did a group of terrorists that seized power under questionable circumstances, who attacked a sovereign nation after a 6 month cease fire, and continued these attacks after warnings about what would happen if they did not stop become the good guys?

Why should they leave government? They were elected democratically, Jimmy Carter says the elections were perfectly fair. Do you follow the news or just tune it out when it comes on?

Get some facts right before putting your opinion out there.

Israel broke the ceasefire, not Hamas. This is a fact.

K-9

Hammiepeters wrote: »

There it is! First comparison to the Haulocaust. Now. NI Catholics. Any takers?

LOL, I made the point, but in a different way. What was considered Govt. opinion in 1968 and even the 70's has moved on.

The Cruiser had SOME use!

youcrazyjesus!

Seanies32 wrote: »

There is a thread on politics. Read it and become enlightened.

youcrazyjesus!

brianthebard wrote: »

Wow did you go to debating class?

He just prattles on here, he avoided the intelligent debate in politics because he'd be corrected and chooses to spread lies here instead.

K-9

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

There is a thread on politics. Read it and become enlightened.

i HAD READ IT. Too one sided on both sides for me!

Similar to the Republican Unionist, Pro and Anti Lisbon threads over there.

ShooterSF

grenache wrote: »

Its nothing got to do with being neutral or not. Its about solidarity with those people in Gaza who are going through untold suffering right now.

Eh yes it does. Are we just neutral when we feel like it. I feel sorry for the innocent people on both sides who were killed but that's as far as it goes. It does not mean we take sides with Palestine by ejecting Israel's ambassador.
By any chance did you protest the American planes refuelling in Shannon?

Judgement Day

Another point that I will throw in before going to bed is that Israeli politicians would do well to remember how their own State came about and the activities of the notorious terrorist organisation the 'Stern Gang' - see link below;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)

this coupled with their own experiences of Nazi persecution would you would think have made them more Worldly wise.

Night all.

tolosenc

I'm invoking Godwin's Law.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Why should they leave government? They were elected democratically, Jimmy Carter says the elections were perfectly fair. Do you follow the news or just tune it out when it comes on?

Get some facts right before putting your opinion out there.

Israel broke the ceasefire, not Hamas. This is a fact.

Oh no, not Jimmy Carter!!!1!

He says they were, I say they weren't.

Yes I follow the news.

And Hamas broke the ceasefire. FACT. I challenge you to prove otherwise.

You have a warped view of the world, caused by only listening to one side of the argument. I listen to both and make up my own mind.

youcrazyjesus!

Seanies32 wrote: »

i HAD READ IT. Too one sided on both sides for me!

Similar to the Republican Unionist, Pro and Anti Lisbon threads over there.

Do you think reports from Poland in 1939 should have given equal time to the Wehrmacht and the Polish army? Try to balance it out...or should they have reported on a criminal invasion?

There are hundreds of such examples, there is no necessity to give equal time to 2 sides in all conflicts. That would give an inaccurate impression of the situation would it not?

Hammiepeters

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

He just prattles on here, he avoided the intelligent debate in politics because he'd be corrected and chooses to spread lies here instead.

Or stuff that you and your pro Hamas friends dont agree with. References to wait for it. Jimmy Carter. Americas' own Garrett Fitzgerald. Arguably the worst President since WW2 and a man who could have contained the spread of Islammic fascism with a firm hand on Iran when it was needed.

K-9

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Do you think reports from Poland in 1939 should have given equal time to the Wehrmacht and the Polish army? Try to balance it out...or should they have reported on a criminal invasion?

Godwins AGAIN. In fairness the thread does lend itself to it.

youcrazyjesus wrote:

There are hundreds of such examples, there is no necessity to give equal time to 2 sides in all conflicts. That would give an inaccurate impression of the situation would it not?

Indeed, N. Ireland around 1700 would be a better example.

Hammiepeters

obl wrote: »

You have a warped view of the world, caused by only listening to one side of the argument. I listen to both and make up my own mind.

yep,that pretty well sums him up:)

Hammiepeters

Think he's gone to the drunken posting thread:)

youcrazyjesus!

obl wrote: »

Oh no, not Jimmy Carter!!!1!

He's a former American President, credible when reporting on elections.

He says they were, I say they weren't.

Some random fool in the internet says he knows better than Jimmy Carter. Not only Jimm Carter, but this:

Edward McMillan-Scott, the British Conservative head of the European Parliament's monitoring team described the polls as "extremely professional, in line with international standards, free, transparent and without violence".

Read up on some facts before posting your opinion, it only makes you look foolish.

And Hamas broke the ceasefire. FACT. I challenge you to prove otherwise.

From The Guardian:

A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory.

From CNN:

CNN Confirms Israel Broke Ceasefire First




Game. Set. Match.

You have a warped view of the world, caused by only listening to one side of the argument. I listen to both and make up my own mind.

Lol, that Israel is always right no matter what? Don't make me laugh.

tolosenc

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Do you think reports from Poland in 1939 should have given equal time to the Wehrmacht and the Polish army? Try to balance it out...or should they have reported on a criminal invasion?

I CALLED GODWIN. That means stop.

And here's a quote from a movie that can be applied to this situation.

"See, there's three kinds of people: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies think everyone can get along, and dicks just want to **** all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes, Chuck. And all the assholes want us to **** all over everything! So, pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get ****ed by dicks. But dicks also **** assholes, Chuck. And if they didn't **** the assholes, you know what you'd get? You'd get your dick and your pussy all covered in ****! "

Where:
You = Pussy
Israel = Dick
Hamas/Palestine = Asshole

Good night all!