Time to kick out the Israeli Ambassador?

youcrazyjesus!

Hammiepeters wrote: »

Or stuff that you and your pro Hamas friends dont agree with. References to wait for it. Jimmy Carter. Americas' own Garrett Fitzgerald. Arguably the worst President since WW2 and a man who could have contained the spread of Islammic fascism with a firm hand on Iran when it was needed.

In your warped, right-wing view. At least you accept he was wrong to begin contact with Islamic forces in Afghanistan. That's something.

youcrazyjesus!

obl wrote: »

I CALLED GODWIN. That means stop.

And here's a quote from a movie that can be applied to this situation.

"See, there's three kinds of people: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies think everyone can get along, and dicks just want to **** all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes, Chuck. And all the assholes want us to **** all over everything! So, pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get ****ed by dicks. But dicks also **** assholes, Chuck. And if they didn't **** the assholes, you know what you'd get? You'd get your dick and your pussy all covered in ****! "

Where:
You = Pussy
Israel = Dick
Hamas/Palestine = Asshole

Good night all!

Big, clever and informative.

I subscribe to the alternative viewpoint on Godwin's Law, just because some spa posted something up on the internet and claimed it to be a law doesn't mean we all have to follow it.

Hammiepeters

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Big, clever and informative.

I subscribe to the alternative viewpoint on Godwin's Law, just because some spa posted something up on the internet and claimed it to be a law doesn't mean we all have to follow it.

You're not bitter though. Goodnight.

youcrazyjesus!

Hammiepeters wrote: »

You're not bitter though. Goodnight.

I have facts on my side, there's no need to be. Go and sleep it off!

phantom_lord

Judgement Day wrote: »

Of course the Israeli Ambassador should be called in and told to back his bags without further delay but do you think any of our gutless politicians will do it? It would the first decent thing Biffo has done since taking over from Bertie. What does anybody else think? :mad:

i think we should go one step further, let's throw him down the well.

tolosenc

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

He's a former American President, credible when reporting on elections.



Some random fool in the internet says he knows better than Jimmy Carter. Not only Jimm Carter, but this:

Edward McMillan-Scott, the British Conservative head of the European Parliament's monitoring team described the polls as "extremely professional, in line with international standards, free, transparent and without violence".

Read up on some facts before posting your opinion, it only makes you look foolish.




From The Guardian:

A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory.

From CNN:

CNN Confirms Israel Broke Ceasefire First




Game. Set. Match.



Lol, that Israel is always right no matter what? Don't make me laugh.

1. I was closer to the middle-east at the time.
2. I was (and am) making fun of you as he was the only source you quoted.
3. CNN calls the Guardian "questionable, but still..." :rolleyes:
4. Israel, in self defence, pre-emptively took out Palestinian terrorist cell poised to attack them. The fact that there was an assault group preparing to attack Israel must be taken as a sign that the cease fire was gone already.
5. @Mods, he called me a fool. Personal attack = ban, no?
6. I don't like tennis.
7. How exactly is it funny that I listen to both sides and make an informed decision, whereas you listen to what you want to hear and regurgitate that bias and that's completely logical? Don't make ME laugh.

K-9

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

I have facts on my side, there's no need to be. Go and sleep it off!

Do enlighten us with them?

Or is it a conspiracy?

sukikettle

Is Ireland a goat nation?

tolosenc

Seanies32 wrote: »

Or is it a conspiracy?

I'm guessing: Political elites and corporate America.

I'll see in the morning.

thelordofcheese

obl wrote: »

I'm invoking Godwin's Law.

You don't actually know what Godwins law is, do you.

youcrazyjesus!

Seanies32 wrote: »

Do enlighten us with them?

Or is it a conspiracy?

I've already provided them..go and look at them.

sukikettle

Is Ireland a goat nation?

K-9

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

In your warped, right-wing view. At least you accept he was wrong to begin contact with Islamic forces in Afghanistan. That's something.

Ah well Obama will sort that one out.

You agree with Obama on Afghanistan?

K-9

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

I've already provided them..go and look at them.

Wont be that hard to post them again.

Go on, one for the plebs!

youcrazyjesus!

obl wrote: »

1. I was closer to the middle-east at the time.

I needed a good laugh, this makes you an expert?

2. I was (and am) making fun of you as he was the only source you quoted.

What?

3. CNN calls the Guardian "questionable, but still..." :rolleyes:

Facts are facts. Deny them, but they're there for everyone to see.

4. Israel, in self defence, pre-emptively took out Palestinian terrorist cell poised to attack them.

This is unproven, given Israel's long history of blatantly lying about such things it's almost certainly a lie, the lack of evidence and the fact that Israel, long after the fact, assassinated 6 Palestinians means you're wrong.

The fact that there was an assault group preparing to attack Israel must be taken as a sign that the cease fire was gone already.

You need to develop the ability to distinguish between what the IDF tell you and what is actually fact. There is a difference.

5. @Mods, he called me a fool. Personal attack = ban, no?

Boo hoo. Wipe those tears away.

7. How exactly is it funny that I listen to both sides and make an informed decision, whereas you listen to what you want to hear and regurgitate that bias and that's completely logical? Don't make ME laugh.

I've also made an informed decision and I've given facts, you've given waffle and lies. Seeing as I know more than you about it it's likely I'm right.

youcrazyjesus!

Seanies32 wrote: »

Wont be that hard to post them again.

Go on, one for the plebs!

Click on my name, click on All posts by, look at what I've posted, in just this thread. You'll find them. I'm not going out of my way for the lazy minded.

youcrazyjesus!

Seanies32 wrote: »

Ah well Obama will sort that one out.

You agree with Obama on Afghanistan?

What? I don't think you know what you're talking about.

K-9

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

I needed a good laugh, this makes you an expert?



What?



Facts are facts. Deny them, but they're there for everyone to see.



This is unproven, given Israel's long history of blatantly lying about such things it's almost certainly a lie, the lack of evidence and the fact that Israel, long after the fact, assassinated 6 Palestinians means you're wrong.



You need to develop the ability to distinguish between what the IDF tell you and what is actually fact. There is a difference.



Boo hoo. Wipe those tears away.



I've also made an informed decision and I've given facts, you've given waffle and lies. Seeing as I know more than you about it it's likely I'm right.

Thing is, I'm not denying these as facts.

Be careful of thinking you are more informed and know more facts! Can bite you in the arse. Seen it in the last day or 2 on the Public Service.

youcrazyjesus!

Seanies32 wrote: »

Thing is, I'm not denying these as facts.

Be careful of thinking you are more informed and know more facts! Can bite you in the arse. Seen it in the last day or 2 on the Public Service.

Er. Ok.

mick.fr

Why do those threads are always about some people trying to show off their pseudo knowledge of something that goes beyond their full understanding anyway and where they love to quote wikipedia articles, CNN links and the likes.

Ok we got you guys, you know to use Google!!!

Now if you have a solution about this conflict and all others where normally thinking people are fighting back extremism all over the world that would be cool.

US have killed thousands of civilians in Irak and Afghanistan, where are the Irish protesters?

An Irish familly provided silver to the UK army that used it to make bullets and kill Irish people in return during years, and so what, have you requested to seize the assets of this rich Irish familly and kick them out of this country ?

And what about the familly members of the Irish Nazis who worked for the Germans during WWII?

I find all this wave of Irish partisans pretty laughable, ridiculous and inappropriate.

Oh yeah and stop insulting people or calling them with some stupid names when they simply disagree with you, this is just so ...?

K-9

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Er. Ok.

There are always FACTS on the other side!

wes

mick.fr wrote: »

US have killed thousands of civilians in Irak and Afghanistan, where are the Irish protesters?

There were protests against the Iraq war.

K-9

wes wrote: »

There were protests against the Iraq war.

And Shannon.

wes

Seanies32 wrote: »

And Shannon.

Thanks forgot to mention that.

mick.fr

wes wrote: »

There were protests against the Iraq war.

Yeah well Irish ones went unoticed pretty much
And this was at the very beginnng when the US went back

mick.fr

Seanies32 wrote: »

And Shannon.

Yeah mainly driven by US and non irish organisations like we have seen recently...

K-9

wes wrote: »

Thanks forgot to mention that.

Indeed, our Govt. is a bigger threat to ouR Neutrality, not the EU.

wes

mick.fr wrote: »

Yeah well Irish ones went unoticed pretty much
And this was at the very beginnng when the US went back

They happened and the Irish Anti war movement hold events all the time against the Iraq war.

mick.fr

wes wrote: »

They happened and the Irish Anti war movement hold events all the time against the Iraq war.

Ok fair enough

wes

mick.fr wrote: »

Yeah mainly driven by US and non irish organisations like we have seen recently...

I am sure you can back this up, as to the best of my knowledge the Irish Anti-war movement is Irish. This is a genuine question and I am not going after you or anything as this is the first I have heard of anything like this.

youcrazyjesus!

mick.fr wrote: »

Why do those threads are always about some people trying to show off their pseudo knowledge of something that goes beyond their full understanding anyway and where they love to quote wikipedia articles, CNN links and the likes.

Lol. People react with cries of LIE! if you inform them of basic facts. Like informing them that Hamas won a free election above. You're lying they'll say! Then you say, no I'm not, here are some indisputable facts backed up by reference to mainstream newspapers and respectable sources.

At least then you can move on to discrediting the source or sneering that they know how to use Google and so on but don't see the "big picture". It's pretty pathetic.

Even at that, some basic knowledge obtained from Google is far, far better from the complete lack of knowledge on your part. And I don't count soundbites from the Israeli government spokesmen rehashed on here as fact.

Now if you have a solution about this conflict and all others where normally thinking people are fighting back extremism all over the world that would be cool.

You've proved you know nothing. There is a solution. It's based on the principle of 1967 borders. Hamas, the PLO, Barack Obama, Ehud Olmert, Jimmy Carter, 80% of Palestinians, world opinion, international law, UN rulings and the Arab states all agree on it. Spend 10 minutes googling to find out more.

US have killed thousands of civilians in Irak and Afghanistan, where are the Irish protesters?

Are you kidding or just completely ignorant on the subject? 100,000 people turned out for 1 protest in Dublin alone.

An Irish familly provided silver to the UK army that used it to make bullets and kill Irish people in return during years, and so what, have you requested to seize the assets of this rich Irish familly and kick them out of this country ?

You're waffling, that was 80 years ago for a start at least. At least try to maintain some level of sense.

And what about the familly members of the Irish Nazis who worked for the Germans during WWII?

That was over 60 years ago. Gaza is happening today.

youcrazyjesus!

Seanies32 wrote: »

There are always FACTS on the other side!

Agreed. Hitler had his facts. Poland had other facts. So a fair way to approach it is to find the half-way point between the two sides.

rossie1977

mick.fr wrote: »

US have killed thousands of civilians in Irak and Afghanistan, where are the Irish protesters?

we did our bit
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/apr2003/ire-a03.shtml
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ireland-on-antiwar-footing-as-bush-visit-triggers-huge-protest-755831.html

youcrazyjesus!

Seanies32 wrote: »

There are always FACTS on the other side!

Or as you say, be careful about knowing the facts, facts which I don't disagree with!

This is fun.

mick.fr

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Lol. People react with cries of LIE! if you inform them of basic facts. Like informing them that Hamas won a free election above. You're lying they'll say! Then you say, no I'm not, here are some indisputable facts backed up by reference to mainstream newspapers and respectable sources.

At least then you can move on to discrediting the source or sneering that they know how to use Google and so on but don't see the "big picture". It's pretty pathetic.
....

Ok another guy who has the insult pretty easy.
That is crazy to see on this forum so many insults towards other members because they express an opinion. What is the purpose behind such behavior?

What you are talking about is a non sense, you mention Obama has the solution, since when Obama has the solution? Obama is the messia you are going to tell me no?

Again you are insulting me by mentioning the solution has been around since 1967. You do not get it I am sorry, if the solution was around since this date, why are they still fighting ? You do not know because you do not know their mindset. You do not know what is their real motivation behind this conflict. The extremist muslims have a very precise goal. And they will never give up.

It is so easy to insult people because there is a disagreement, but as a matter of fact you have no solution, because there is only one solution to this conflict. And it is the annhilation of one party. Don't even try to argue with this. It is a fact.

youcrazyjesus!

mick.fr wrote: »

What you are talking about is a non sense, you mention Obama has the solution, since when Obama has the solution? Obama is the messia you are going to tell me no?

No but he will be the American President in two weeks and he agrees with a lot of other important players agree, including Hamas, on what a fair and lasting solution to the problem is.

Again you are insulting me by mentioning the solution has been around since 1967. You do not get it I am sorry, if the solution was around since this date, why are they still fighting ?

If Israel withdraws to it's legal borders (the borders it held prior to the war in 1967 -which is why I mention that date), which it is required to do by international law and rulings, then everybody will be reasonably happy. The Palestinians will take what they can get, at this stage. They are still fighting because Israel refuses to recognise a Palestinian state, refuses to negotiate meaningfully with all important Palestinian groups, refuses to stop building on West Bank land, refuses to comply with international law and it is allowed to do this because the USA gives them the backing to do it.

K-9

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Agreed. Hitler had his facts. Poland had other facts. So a fair way to approach it is to find the half-way point between the two sides.

So did Unionists!

Which we have accepted.

Fecking Paisley Nazi!

K-9

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

No but he will be the American President in two weeks and he agrees with a lot of other important players agree, including Hamas, on what a fair and lasting solution to the problem is.



If Israel withdraws to it's legal borders (the borders it held prior to the war in 1967 -which is why I mention that date), which it is required to do by international law and rulings, then everybody will be reasonably happy. The Palestinians will take what they can get, at this stage.

Ah, naive, wait for Afghanistan.


Oh, Now I'm the conspiracy theorist.

Obama will do some good, but will not right the Hamas situation etc.

mick.fr

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

No but he will be the American President in two weeks and he agrees with a lot of other important players agree, including Hamas, on what a fair and lasting solution to the problem is.



If Israel withdraws to it's legal borders (the borders it held prior to the war in 1967 -which is why I mention that date), which it is required to do by international law and rulings, then everybody will be reasonably happy. The Palestinians will take what they can get, at this stage. They are still fighting because Israel refuses to recognise a Palestinian state, refuses to negotiate meaningfully with all important Palestinian groups, refuses to stop building on West Bank land, refuses to comply with international law and it is allowed to do this because the USA gives them the backing to do it.

One thing that you forgot to mention is that, as I am sure you know, there is extremist groups that are not going to be satisfied even if Israel decides to go back and lose some land (Which they will never accept anyway, the Jews decided never to bent again).

They want the complete eradication of the Jews in the region and in the world. They want them to leave for good Israel. Their speech is clear and obvious about that. So even if Israel makes the concession, those people will still fire rockets and commit terorrism acts towards Israel.

wes

mick.fr wrote: »

You do not know because you do not know their mindset. You do not know what is their real motivation behind this conflict. The extremist muslims have a very precise goal. And they will never give up.

The PLO before Hamas, was largely secular.

Israel funded Hamas, to counter the secular PLO and split the Palestinians.

Israel has constantly since 1948, taken more and more Palestinians land. During the Oslo peace process Israel colonies doubled in size for example

It isn't just those extremist Muslims that are the problem, there a sympton. The problem is the occupation, which cause both sides violence, in the case of Israel to enforce it and in the case of the Palestinians to resist it. Just to make it clear, I am against violence against civilians on both sides.

mick.fr

Mayo Exile wrote: »

The actual military threat Hamas poses to Israel:



To which Israel can respond with:



A disproportionate use of force me thinks............

I am sorry there is no point behind those 2 links
It is a matter of fact Israel has a superior fire power

The US has an incredible fire power and they have not managed to eradicate terrorism in Irak, Afghanistan, Somalia, ...

Do you remember how the Afghan managed to win the war against the russians, ok with some help from the US, they were using poneys, RPG and Kalach?

Of course the means are disproportionate, it is obvious. But the war is still here and will not end tomorrow.

wes

mick.fr wrote: »

One thing that you forgot to mention is that, as I am sure you know, there is extremist groups that are not going to be satisfied even if Israel decides to go back and lose some land (Which they will never accept anyway, the Jews decided never to bent again).

The Israeli colonists were recently spray painting "Gas the Arabs" on walls in Hebron. Both sides have there extremists.

Here are some links:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gas_the_arabs_painted_in_Hebron.JPG

Hebron settlers desecrate mosque

Jewish settlers protesting against an official Israeli eviction order have desecrated Muslim buildings in the flashpoint West Bank town of Hebron.


They sprayed "Death to Arabs" and an insult to the Prophet Muhammad on a mosque wall and vandalised a cemetery.
Israeli troops were seen painting over the graffiti. A soldier was injured in scuffles with settlers, the army said.

Click here for the rest

mick.fr wrote: »

They want the complete eradication of the Jews in the region and in the world. They want them to leave for good Israel. Their speech is clear and obvious about that. So even if Israel makes the concession, those people will still fire rockets and commit terorrism acts towards Israel.

Would they? Maybe the extremists would lose support, when the Palestinians have achieved some measure of justice.

Still there can be no excuses for Israel colonial aggression against the Palestinians.

youcrazyjesus!

mick.fr wrote: »

One thing that you forgot to mention is that, as I am sure you know, there is extremist groups that are not going to be satisfied even if Israel decides to go back and lose some land (Which they will never accept anyway, the Jews decided never to bent again).

They want the complete eradication of the Jews in the region and in the world. They want them to leave for good Israel. Their speech is clear and obvious about that. So even if Israel makes the concession, those people will still fire rockets and commit terorrism acts towards Israel.

This is just propaganda.

Here.

"We would welcome talks with Tony Blair. We would like to work with him and work with his government to help end the Israeli occupation. We're sending a message to the British government - we're offering a hudna [ceasefire] for 10 years in return for the end of occupation." Hamas wants European governments to accept its ceasefire plan in lieu of the Islamist group formally recognising Israel.

Debate about a political nation's right to exist seems infantile. Israel is a state now, it is part of the UN, it is de facto there, and we deal with it every day."

"We need to change people's minds on how they look at the conflict, and it will take time. The climate will change if we have a period of peace

And here:

Hamas in call to end suicide bombings


'If one looks at the conduct of Hamas in 1996 there was huge controversy even in the ranks of Hamas over its bombing campaign. Hroub says Hamas has the potential to make the transition to a purely political organisation. 'The concept of the two-state solution is now the cornerstone of their thinking. I doubt we will see the old Hamas again,' he said.

And here:

Carter Says Hamas and Syria Are Open to Peace

Jimmy Carter said here on Monday that in talks in Damascus, Syria, over the last several days, he obtained a significant concession from the militant group Hamas regarding Israeli-Palestinian peace

“If the agreement calls for a two-state solution and the recognition of Israel and Palestine, Hamas will, in effect, recognize Israel, if the people agree on the plan,” Mr. Carter told the Israel Council on Foreign Relations in a speech here.


So you see, talking to Hamas will reap dividends, they will recognise Israel and they do want peace. Articles are from The Guardian and The New York Times by the way. Very respectable sources.

mick.fr

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

This is just propaganda.

Here.

"We would welcome talks with Tony Blair. We would like to work with him and work with his government to help end the Israeli occupation. We're sending a message to the British government - we're offering a hudna [ceasefire] for 10 years in

Well yeah we know that, it has been out for days Hamas wants to negotiate, that is not what is gonna to happend I am afraid.
Israel has already rejected those "calls". And rockets are still being fired as we speak into Israel anyway so you know the hamas thing...

youcrazyjesus!

mick.fr wrote: »

Well yeah we know that, it has been out for days Hamas wants to negotiate, that is not what is gonna to happend I am afraid.
Israel has already rejected those "calls". And rockets are still being fired as we speak into Israel anyway so you know the hamas thing...

Israel are destroying their infrastructure and have murdered 800 or more Palestinians, with hundreds more to come, surely Hamas firing rockets in retaliation for this is justified. If people had the same attitude you have, to the IRA in the 1970s, there'd still be violence in the North today. Think bigger.

Mayo Exile

A quick response there mick.fr!!!! I had actually taken the post out as I didn't know you couldn't post actual images in AH!

Its a melodramatic attempt to show that there is a disproportionate use of force being used.

And yes, superior fire power doesn't always eradicate those opposed to you. So why use it on Gaza then? It wont stop the rockets going into Israel and it won't stop them being made either. Many of them are crude devices that anyone competent with a welder could slap together (also capable of killing people as well as a bomb dropped from F-16). Israel will nearly have to blow up every basement in Gaza to stop them being made..............

Only a properly agreed ceasefire will stop all this.

K-9

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

No but he will be the American President in two weeks and he agrees with a lot of other important players agree, including Hamas, on what a fair and lasting solution to the problem is.

He does YEP, Call me when he has a peace process. SO Simplistic!

REMINDS me of 1970 in Ireland!

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Israel are destroying their infrastructure and have murdered 800 or more Palestinians, with hundreds more to come, surely Hamas firing rockets in retaliation for this is justified. If people had the same attitude you have, to the IRA in the 1970s, there'd still be violence in the North today. Think bigger.

THAT was the exact same attitude the IRA had against the Brits. Often why they seeked the IPLO and Ghadaffi as allies!

Kernel

How about legalising cannabis?




[proper AH suggestion!]

Occam

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Seanies32! wrote: »

it seems the obliteration of the Israeli state is the only thing that will keep Hamas happy.

This is incorrect.

You clearly know nothing of the origins, or beliefs of Hamas.
"We will not rest until we destroy the Zionist entity" said Hamas leader Fathi Hammad in Gaza on Friday January 2nd 2009

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

he will be the American President in two weeks and he agrees with ...... Hamas, on what a fair and lasting solution to the problem is.

Rubbish. Obama does not support the destruction of the state of Israel.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

If Israel withdraws to it's legal borders ... then everybody will be reasonably happy.

You need to do some more reading on Hamas and their origins. Hamas gained popularity after their rejection of the Oslo accord.They rejected it not on the grounds of land share, or any of the other devisive issues, but on their fundamental refusal to recognise Israels right to exist. This is part of their charter and has not changed. Read some of Zahars comments on a map without Israel and why "there is no place for the state of Israel on this land"

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

The Palestinians will take what they can get, at this stage. They are still fighting because Israel refuses to recognise a Palestinian state...".

This is rubbish. According to Al-Zahhar : "We Will Not Give Up the Resistance; We Will Not Give Up a Single Inch of Palestine; We Will Not Recognize Israel's Right to Exist"

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Why should they leave government?

Where to start. How about their war crimes, murder, political oppression, torture .... I could go on

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Hamas has offered Israel a 10-year ceasefire and de facto recognition, with a view to making the peace permanent.

How reasonable of them. Oh hang on, it was dependent on the condition of right of return to Israel for Palestinians. I.e. a condition which Israel could never agree to, as it would mean de facto destruction of Israel, and the end of the Jewish state.

Occam

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Hamas in call to end suicide bombings......... 'The concept of the two-state solution is now the cornerstone of their thinking. I doubt we will see the old Hamas again,' he said.

Did you see the date on that Hamas promise not to keep using suicide bombers? It was 2006, yet their suicide bombers have murdered many Israelis since then. More empty words from Hamas designed to keep the gullible on their side.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

“If the agreement calls for a two-state solution and the recognition of Israel and Palestine, Hamas will, in effect, recognize Israel, if the people agree on the plan,” Mr. Carter told ....

All very well Mr. Carter saying he thinks Hamas will recognise Israel. Problem is that its just not true, even if Carter thinks or hopes it is.

Carter made that annoucement after meeting a guy called Meshal. Meshal decided to clarify his position .... he said "Hamas will not recognize the state of Israel".