Time to kick out the Israeli Ambassador?

youcrazyjesus!

Occam wrote: »

Did you see the date on that Hamas promise not to keep using suicide bombers? It was 2006, yet their suicide bombers have murdered many Israelis since then. More empty words from Hamas designed to keep the gullible on their side.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Facts are your friend.

According to Rupert Murdoch's Sky News:

"The last time Hamas carried out a suicide attack in Israel was in January 2005."

According to The New York Times:

including the resumption of suicide attacks within Israel for the first time since 2005. Hamas, he said, had accepted “all the peaceful options, but without results.”

(Yes he is calling for NEW attacks in light of what's happened, nobody agrees with it but people are angry and desperate)

There was one early last year, stupidly justified by Hamas, but not carried out by them. Hamas are not the only militant group in Gaza or the West Bank.

All very well Mr. Carter saying he thinks Hamas will recognise Israel. Problem is that its just not true, even if Carter thinks or hopes it is.

Another nobody who knows better than Jimmy Carter. Great stuff.

Carter made that annoucement after meeting a guy called Meshal. Meshal decided to clarify his position .... he said "Hamas will not recognize the state of Israel".

Hamas grandstanding should not be taken as official policy, meetings with American Presidents should. They will not recognise the LEGITIMACY of Israel, they will recognise the REALITY. They have made clear the difference between the two themselves and have said they already recognise the reality. Read my other quotes from Hamas. They will recognise a peace and a two-state solution. Jimmy Carter is not lying.

K-9

Who's Jimmy ?

youcrazyjesus!

Occam wrote: »

You clearly know nothing of the origins, or beliefs of Hamas.

I know alot about their origins. Feel free to trawl through my posts as proof. It might surprise you to know that they were originally supported by Mossad as a counterbalance to the PLO.

"Netanyahu is the man who set up Hamas" - Ehud Olmert

Various sources, among them United Press International, Le Canard enchaîné, Gérard Chaliand and L'Humanité have claimed that Hamas' early growth had been supported by the Mossad as a "counterbalance to the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)". The French investigative newspaper Le Canard enchaîné claimed that Shin Bet had also supported Hamas as a counterweight to the PLO and Fatah.

"We will not rest until we destroy the Zionist entity" said Hamas leader Fathi Hammad in Gaza on Friday January 2nd 2009

Oooh...scary. What does this mean? They're being faced with annihilation, of course they are going to come out with words. Just like the IRA did. It didn't meant they weren't open to a solution. See any one of the million other links I've provided on the subject.

Rubbish. Obama does not support the destruction of the state of Israel.

Can mods checks this guy's IP? GIYUS or whatever they're called are dedicated to stifling debate by posting this sort of rubbish. This sounds exactly like their sort of rhetoric. Ask the politics mods, they'll fill you in.

Withdrawing to borders recognised by international law, demanded by international rulings and supported by Ehud Olmert, Barack Obama and others does not equate to "destroying Israel". What utter rubbish.

You need to do some more reading on Hamas and their origins. Hamas gained popularity after their rejection of the Oslo accord.

I think it is you who needs to read up. Terrorism aside, they gained popularity because of their social work, that's how they gained a foothold. According to Israeli academic Reuven Paz: "approximately 90 percent of the Hamas' work is in social, welfare, cultural, and educational activities". And you have to ask why, if what you state is true, they gained popularity after the rejection of the Oslo Accords, which were a joke.

From Wikipedia:

"Many Palestinians believed that the Oslo Accords had turned the PLO leadership into a tool of the Israeli state in suppressing their own people. While benefiting a small elite, the conditions of most Palestinians worsened. This was seen as one of the causes for the al-Aqsa Intifada."

They rejected it not on the grounds of land share, or any of the other devisive issues, but on their fundamental refusal to recognise Israels right to exist. This is part of their charter and has not changed. Read some of Zahars comments on a map without Israel and why "there is no place for the state of Israel on this land"

According to Jimmy Carter you're completely wrong on that.

How reasonable of them. Oh hang on, it was dependent on the condition of right of return to Israel for Palestinians. I.e. a condition which Israel could never agree to, as it would mean de facto destruction of Israel, and the end of the Jewish state.

Are you mad? Hamas are not immune to reality. They know this. They have said that as long as the PRINCIPLE of the right to return is recognised there is no impediment to a solution. It doesn't have to be enacted. As Jimmy Carter says, they accept the reality of the two-state solution.

K-9

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

According to Jimmy Carter you're completely wrong on that.



As Jimmy Carter says, they accept the reality of the two-state solution.

Who is Jimmy. Background please?

youcrazyjesus!

Seanies32 wrote: »

Who is Jimmy. Background please?

Are you serious? He's the former President of the USA.

Put "Jimmy Carter" into Google and see what comes up.

kraggy

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Incidentally, kindly refrain from telling me wtf to do when you clearly have no right to. Please stfu. Thx.

This could also be applied to the Israelis.

They have no right to do what they're doing. It's barbaric.

I cannot understand anyone on here legitimising the mass genocide that's taking place. Yes, Hamas are launching rockets into Israel. But it was the Israelis who broke the ceasefire. Anyone who writes or says differently is lying.

How can you justify the IDF sending 100 CIVILIANS into a house for their safety and then proceeding to shell said house within hours killing 30 people, most of whom were children.

How can you justify the murder by the IDF of two UN truck drivers who were delivering aid in CLEARLY marked vehicles.

How can you justify the bombing of a school, which was turned into a shelter and occupied by civilians who were moved from their houses, again killing more innocent people. Hamas DID NOT launch rockets from that school. The UNRWA have confirmed that as they were there.

Anyone on here who says the Israelis should be allowed to "finish the job" has no respect for INNOCENT human life and has very little knowledge of middle-eastern history.

It disgusts me.

K-9

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Are you serious? He's the former President of the USA.

Put "Jimmy Carter" into Google and see what comes up.

LOL at the irony he didn't get!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Another bad summer, the recession and the rising price of a pint and he might feck off back to sunnier climes himself...

Oh, and not forgetting freckled faced, pasty looking Irish lassies in favour of these...

I wouldn't mind of cluster bomb fuck of these gals drop into Mairts bedroom for a little war or two :P

The guy

Berty wrote: »

We didnt kick out the German ambassador during the "Troubles" in Europe.

The German Ambassador got on quite well with Dev and as far as I know wasn't that much of a Nazi supporter.

Occam

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.....
resumption of suicide attacks ..... he is calling for NEW attacks....

There was one early last year

OK, in 2006 Hamas promised the world they would stop their suicide attacks. You tell me I am wrong wrong wrong for saying that they are renaging on that promise. Then your own post prooves my point. You have prooved yourself wrong, wrong, wrong.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Hamas grandstanding should not be taken as official policy, meetings with American Presidents should. .

Why the hell should we take yours and Carters views on what Hamas official policy is, over Hamas leaderships views on their "official policy" is? Why can't we take their own words and actions as indicative of their views? Just because you and Carter don't like the FACT that they want to destroy Israel doesn't make it false.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

I know alot about their origins. .

Again, I must remind you that just saying something doesnt make it true. If you cannot understand that Hamas are dedicated to destruction of the Israeli state, you fail to grasp the groups main reason for existance. Have a read over their founding charter. Think about if you really want to support a group of holocaust deniers. Think if you really agree that a Zionist conspiracy exists , supported by Freemasons and Rotary clubs. This is Hamas 101 stuff, all written down in their founding charter.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

They have said that as long as the PRINCIPLE of the right to return is recognised there is no impediment to a solution.

This is baloney. Hamas will never rest while Jews are in control of what they see as their lands. Just because you want to think they will doesn't make it true. Right of return is one of the main impediments to a solution at the moment, whether you like it or not :

"Abu Marzouk, the No. 2 man in the Hamas leadership, said the right of return for the refugees is "sacred" for all Palestinians. "The Palestinian people will never give up this sacred right," he said. "Our people have been fighting for 58 years to achieve the right of return for all those who were expelled from their homeland. We reject any deal that does not recognize the right of return."

"Abdullah Abdullah, a senior Fatah official in the West Bank, described the right of return as sacred. "The right of return cannot be ignored or surrendered,"

Hammiepeters

Little point in argueing with him Occam. He has a posititivity bias towards any skerrig of news or information that supports the Palestinian side of this conflict to the point where he ignores any information that doesn't. You really have to laugh at people who think that Hamas or Hezbollah are best known for their ''social work'' efforts. Anything that they have done for civilians has and will come with a terrrible price tag. ''trust us, we're only doing social work'' while they plan a violent campaign where those very civilians will become a shield to hide behind.

munchester29

kraggy wrote: »

This could also be applied to the Israelis.

They have no right to do what they're doing. It's barbaric.

I cannot understand anyone on here legitimising the mass genocide that's taking place. Yes, Hamas are launching rockets into Israel. But it was the Israelis who broke the ceasefire. Anyone who writes or says differently is lying.

Mass genocide?
Oh how I pity those hundreds of thousands of slain Palestinians… Oh, wait these aren’t really the numbers…
Gotta love all those statements which are not backed up by anything more than someone’s biased opinion.

Your words “Yes, Hamas are launching rockets into Israel. But it was the Israelis who broke the ceasefire” are just an amazing example of logical reasoning…

The rest of what you say doesn’t even deserve a comment – you should really start doing some reading about the conflict (even a few threads here on boards.ie would do you some good), most Palestinian supporters here have already stopped making such silly, childish arguments.

mick.fr

Damn you youcrazyjesus! are bloody good at Google search and cross online references.
Now if we were living in a ideal world (Well maybe not after all) 100% of information published would be correct, accurate and neutral.

Hammiepeters

Yes,many of us are totally sick of having the tag of ''hawk'' attached to our views just because we can see both sides here. As if we are in someway pro war or dont care about civilians. Its very insulting. It is amazing how attitudes can change very suddenly when the price of supporting Islaamic political ideals comes home to roost. As an Australian citizen, it was remarkable how things changed when nearly 100 young people were slaughtered for the sin of going to a nightclub in Bali. Suddenly people saw that this enemy was closer to home than we thought and that they did not actually like us very much.

Nodin

Judgement Day wrote: »

Of course the Israeli Ambassador should be called in and told to back his bags without further delay but do you think any of our gutless politicians will do it? It would the first decent thing Biffo has done since taking over from Bertie. What does anybody else think? :mad:

We should have kicked them out in the late 60's.

Saibh wrote:

What would be accomplished if Ireland told the Israeli Ambassador to go?

Shows we have something resembling principles and a spine, for once.

Hammiepeters wrote:

Just the usual islaamic fascist nonse.

How is objecting to colonisation suddenly 'Islamic'?

Hammiepeters wrote:

Yawns..

So apart from repeating second-hand US Islamophobic phraseology, you haven't a bogs notion....Great stuff.

Stekelly wrote:

So why the "kill all the infidels " crap about the rest of us?..

Thats nothing to do with Palestine or the occupation.

Hammiepeters wrote:

Arguably the worst President since WW2 and a man who could have contained the spread of Islammic fascism with a firm hand on Iran when it was needed..

You really haven't a clue, have you?

Define "Islamic fascism". For starters.

Hammiepeters wrote:

As an Australian citizen, it was remarkable how things changed when nearly 100 young people were slaughtered for the sin of going to a nightclub in Bali...

Whats that got to do with Palestine....? O - they're ALL THE SAME.

dresden8

Hammiepeters wrote: »

Yes,many of us are totally sick of having the tag of ''hawk'' attached to our views just because we can see both sides here. As if we are in someway pro war or dont care about civilians. Its very insulting. It is amazing how attitudes can change very suddenly when the price of supporting Islaamic political ideals comes home to roost. As an Australian citizen, it was remarkable how things changed when nearly 100 young people were slaughtered for the sin of going to a nightclub in Bali. Suddenly people saw that this enemy was closer to home than we thought and that they did not actually like us very much.

What, Palestinian children bombed Bali so airstrikes are justified?

Little r@ghead b@st@rds!

galwayrush

If Hammas just ****ed off, things would dramatically improve out there .

Nodin

dresden8 wrote: »

What, Palestinian children bombed Bali so airstrikes are justified?

Little r@ghead [EMAIL="b@st@rds!"]b@st@rds![/EMAIL]

Its a well known fact that if you get one muslim in the shin, all muslims everywhere will reach for their leg in pain. Its the same way catholics ring up the vatican for orders every week.

Nodin

galwayrush wrote: »

If Hammas just ****ed off, things would dramatically improve out there .

You don't know about the colonies in the West Bank/Arab East Jerusalem? Hamas was only formed relatively recently. When the occupation ends, then there'll be a reduction in the number of Palestinian militant groups. Until then, expect more of the same. We managed to keep it up for a few centuries, and I fail to see why they won't.

nacho libre

well, the Israeli ambassador will never be kicked out as we will likely be punished by America if we took that course of action.

"He has a posititivity bias towards any skerrig of news or information that supports the Palestinian side of this conflict to the point where he ignores any information that doesn't."

projecting much? you Hammiepeters and others here are equally as guilty of doing that in your defense of Israel once anything that undermines your position is brought up.


anyway, it seems some here are better informed on the current thinking of Hamas' leadership than past and current senior figures within the Israeli intelligence community.

According to the Israeli press, Yuval Diskin, the current head of the Israeli security service Shin Bet, "told the Israeli cabinet [on 23 December] that Hamas is interested in continuing the truce, but wants to improve its terms." Diskin explained that Hamas was requesting two things: an end to the blockade, and an Israeli ceasefire on the West Bank. The cabinet – high with election fever and eager to appear tough – rejected these terms.

The core of the situation has been starkly laid out by Ephraim Halevy, the former head of Mossad. He says that while Hamas militants – like much of the Israeli right-wing – dream of driving their opponents away, "they have recognised this ideological goal is not attainable and will not be in the future." Instead, "they privately admit that they are ready and willing to see the establishment of a Palestinian state in the borders of 1967." They are aware that this means they " will have to adopt a path that will lead them far from their original goals" – and towards a long-term peace based on compromise.

PeakOutput

Nodin wrote: »

Whats that got to do with Palestine....? O - they're ALL THE SAME.

well they are all terrorists after all

we shouldnt kick out the israeli embassador the idea is a joke mainly because the country is not all on the side of palestine.

Nodin

PeakOutput wrote: »

well they are all terrorists after all.

All of them? Fascinating. They must be like the Borg off star trek.....

PeakOutput

Nodin wrote: »

All of them? Fascinating. They must be like the Borg off star trek.....

i phrased that wrong but dont be simple just for the sake of it


what happened is bali was a result of terrorism and what is happening is gaza is as a result of terrorism so thats what the two have in common

Nodin

PeakOutput wrote: »

what happened is bali was a result of terrorism and what is happening is gaza is as a result of terrorism so thats what the two have in common

Whats happening in Gaza is the result of a number of factors - amongst them, the Israeli occupation, Hamas rocket firing and the approach of the Israeli elections as well as Ehud Olmerts efforts to leave a 'respectable' legacy. None of them bear any relation to Bali.

galwayrush

Nodin wrote: »

You don't know about the colonies in the West Bank/Arab East Jerusalem? Hamas was only formed relatively recently. When the occupation ends, then there'll be a reduction in the number of Palestinian militant groups. Until then, expect more of the same. We managed to keep it up for a few centuries, and I fail to see why they won't.

Hammas are responsable for the current offensive by Israel, did they really expect Israel to do nothing while they kept firing rockets into Southern Israel?
It was a massive step in the wrong direction, it breeds more hatred .

Hammiepeters

PeakOutput wrote: »

what happened is bali was a result of terrorism and what is happening is gaza is as a result of terrorism so thats what the two have in common

What happened in Bali was the result of intolerant islaamic fanatics who hate everything except themselves. And you seem to think that Hamas are some kind of ''cuddly islaamic terrorists''.

Hammiepeters

When it strikes closer to home maybe you'll change your view.

PeakOutput

Nodin wrote: »

Whats happening in Gaza is the result of a number of factors - amongst them, the Israeli occupation, Hamas rocket firing and the approach of the Israeli elections as well as Ehud Olmerts efforts to leave a 'respectable' legacy. None of them bear any relation to Bali.

this latest offensive is a direct result of terrorism simple as that.

after a certain point in conflict blame is irrelevant all thats important is stopping it. nothing will change while hamas are in power therefore get rid of them.

PeakOutput

Hammiepeters wrote: »

What happened in Bali was the result of intolerant islaamic fanatics who hate everything except themselves. And you seem to think that Hamas are some kind of ''cuddly islaamic terrorists''.

i assume you meant to quote nodin and not me seen as i was agreeing with you

galwayrush

Hammiepeters wrote: »

When it strikes closer to home maybe you'll change your view.

We are all afterall....Infidels
I find it strange that anyone from the West could back a group like Hammas in any way.

wes

Hammiepeters wrote: »

What happened in Bali was the result of intolerant islaamic fanatics who hate everything except themselves. And you seem to think that Hamas are some kind of ''cuddly islaamic terrorists''.

Strange how you completely forget about Israel violent colonization process against the Palestinians and a siege that has brought nearly 1.5 million people to the brink of starvation. There can be no excuses for Israeli state terror either.

brianthebard

galwayrush wrote: »

Hammas are responsable for the current offensive by Israel, did they really expect Israel to do nothing while they kept firing rockets into Southern Israel?
It was a massive step in the wrong direction, it breeds more hatred .

Why are you so convinced that Israel was doing nothing, and that these attacks by Hamas were out of the blue?? since Israel withdrew from Gaza it has sped up its encroachment on the West bank, taking more and more land from Palestinians. Up to 70% of the West bank may now be occupied, and yet people are still talking about these rocket attacks as if Israel has just been thinking hugs and kisses for Palestinians?? Why don't you acknowledge the brutal and oppressive boundary system that has created another Apartheid, and why can you not see how that has forced Palestinians into radicalism? Do you really think Hamas are firing rockets for ****s and giggles?

wes

galwayrush wrote: »

We are all afterall....Infidels
I find it strange that anyone from the West could back a group like Hammas in any way.

You seem to want to ignore the occupation, the siege and Israel colonization process and Israeli religious nuts running around Hebron spray painting "Gas the Arabs" around the place.

I find it hard to believe anyone in the West could support a racist apartheid state like Israel.

Also, it perfectly possible to oppose nutters like Hamas and a apartheid state like Israel.

PeakOutput

wes wrote: »

Strange how you completely forget about Israel violent colonization process against the Palestinians

israel completely withdrew from gaza and removed all its colonies about 3 and a half years ago

and a siege that has brought nearly 1.5 million people to the brink of starvation. There can be no excuses for Israeli state terror either.

israel closed its borders to stop hamas suicide bombers entering israel. other countries like egypt have done the same as far as i am aware

asdasd

t has sped up its encroachment on the West bank, taking more and more land from Palestinians.

And? Isnt ethnicity a cultural concept? Why cant the palestinians be non-racist and allow Jews into "their" land. racist palestinians.

galwayrush

The likes of Hammas state that they want to wipe israel off the face of the earth and will keep trying until every last Israeli is dead. How would you expect Israel to respond?

the_syco

ceasefire

Ah, like when the IDF stopped firing into Gaza for 6 months, but the Palestinians kept throwing mortars and rockets into Israel?

=-=

What Israel is pretty simple. They want Egypt to get help patrolling it's borders. Israel wants an international force helping patrol the border between Egypt and Gaza. Of course Hamas wants it to stay as it is. Sure, why wouldn't they? They're getting lots of rockets in at the moment, so why would they want an international force that would make an effort to stop stuff getting smuggled into Gaza?

galwayrush wrote: »

The likes of Hammas state that they want to wipe israel off the face of the earth and will keep trying until every last Israeli is dead. How would you expect Israel to respond?

Nuclear?

PeakOutput

brianthebard wrote: »

Why are you so convinced that Israel was doing nothing, and that these attacks by Hamas were out of the blue?? since Israel withdrew from Gaza it has sped up its encroachment on the West bank, taking more and more land from Palestinians.

this is completely seperate to the west bank. hamas are not in power in the west bank and the west bank do not attack israel and guess what......the west bank is not under attack by israel

Why don't you acknowledge the brutal and oppressive boundary system that has created another Apartheid, and why can you not see how that has forced Palestinians into radicalism?

you have it mixed up the closed border was a result of radicalism

Do you really think Hamas are firing rockets for ****s and giggles?

do you really think israel are sending its own citizens into the line of fire for ****s and giggles?

Ass

Let them blow the shit out of each other! Sit back and enjoy the fireworks.

brianthebard

PeakOutput wrote: »

this is completely seperate to the west bank. hamas are not in power in the west bank and the west bank do not attack israel and guess what......the west bank is not under attack by israel



you have it mixed up the closed border was a result of radicalism

Are you really that myopic that you can't see the settlement of the west bank is absolutely entwined with the situation in Gaza? The west bank is under attack, they are been forced off their land to make way for settlers. That is an occupation, an attack. Is that really so hard to understand?

wes

PeakOutput wrote: »

israel completely withdrew from gaza and removed all its colonies about 3 and a half years ago

They control all the border, air space, and there access to the sea. They turned Gaza into a prison.

They also, took more land in the West Bank for there colonies. So they gave with one hand and took with the other.

PeakOutput wrote: »

israel closed its borders to stop hamas suicide bombers entering israel. other countries like egypt have done the same as far as i am aware

Egypt are acting in collusion with Israel and being paid off by the US. Also, the collective punishment of 1.5 million people is illegal under international law and an act of state terrorism. There can be no excuse to bring 1.5 million people to the brink of starvation in an act of state terrorism.

galwayrush

the_syco wrote: »

Nuclear?

Nuclear is definitely a step too far, but with their superior non nuclear weapons, and what they could actually do, ie they could wipe Gaza off the map in a few days,goes to prove how restrained Israel has been.

lisbon_lions

Can anyone explain to me why Israel is not allowing journalists into Gaza to report on the ground? Is it for their "own safety" or are they just trying to hide what is going on there, to the global media?

Personally, I think Israel's use of force is excessive. Granted they should not endure rocket fire from Hamas, but that threat should have been met with a force more proportinate IMO. (Its defining that force that is the problem).

PeakOutput

PeakOutput wrote: »

israel closed its borders to stop hamas suicide bombers entering israel. other countries like egypt have done the same as far as i am aware

Very few people actually talk about this. It's all "Israel closed its borders to starve the Palestinians.." etc. When Egypt have done the same. And for the same reason as Israel has - because groups like Hamas are nothing but trouble and they have to keep them out.

brianthebard

lisbon_lions wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me why Israel is not allowing journalists into Gaza to report on the ground? Is it for their "own safety" or are they just trying to hide what is going on there, to the global media?

They don't want people to see the full extent of suffering endured by Palestinians because of Israeli policies of apartheid.

galwayrush

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Very few people actually talk about this. It's all "Israel closed its borders to starve the Palestinians.." etc. When Egypt have done the same. And for the same reason as Israel has - because groups like Hamas are nothing but trouble and they have to keep them out.

Too many people are selective in what they want to believe.:rolleyes:

PeakOutput

brianthebard wrote: »

Are you really that myopic that you can't see the settlement of the west bank is absolutely entwined with the situation in Gaza? The west bank is under attack, they are been forced off their land to make way for settlers. That is an occupation, an attack. Is that really so hard to understand?

i was only listening to a west bank(think they called him the palestinians chief negotiator) spokesman talking the other day about how hamas wont even talk with them and how hamas should stop the rocket attacks immedietely.

Egypt are acting in collusion with Israel and being paid off by the US. Also, the collective punishment of 1.5 million people is illegal under international law and an act of state terrorism.

ah of course its a case of ' i dont have a problem, you 5 people who dont like me have the problem'

There can be no excuse to bring 1.5 million people to the brink of starvation in an act of state terrorism.

cause and effect. palestine / hamas / terrorists whoever were sending suicide bombers over the border to attack israel....the border gets closed.....the attacks stop on israel the borders reopen. hamas REFUSES to stop attacking israel

secondly it dosnt sound to me like the palestinians had any trouble in getting things they needed into the country. if hamas wanted to feed their people they could but instead they buy rockets to attack israel instead of buying food

galwayrush

brianthebard wrote: »

They don't want people to see the full extent of suffering endured by Palestinians because of Israeli policies of apartheid.

If roles were reversed, all Israelies would be either dead or in exile.

wes

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Very few people actually talk about this. It's all "Israel closed its borders to starve the Palestinians.." etc. When Egypt have done the same. And for the same reason as Israel has - because groups like Hamas are nothing but trouble and they have to keep them out.

Egypt are acting in collusion with Israel and are being paid billions by the US in "aid". So of course there going to keep the border closed.

Also, there is no excuse for bringing 1.5 million people to the brink of starvation. It is an act of state terror and there can be no excuses for it.

galwayrush

palestinians have actually played for the israeli football team,plenty work in factories in Israel. that obviously dosen't fit in with the total apartheid description of israel.:rolleyes: