Time to kick out the Israeli Ambassador?

youcrazyjesus!

PeakOutput wrote: »

were you at the may day riots? unless you mean caused by the authorities in that the march should never of been allowed happen you are sadly mistakenp.

Police were needlessly violent attacking 100% peaceful protestors. As seen in camera footage.

youcrazyjesus!

Hammiepeters wrote: »

You see,you think that this is reasonable behaviour. You obviously think that it is ok for British Muslims to be in dissent with the British Police. It was never a peaceful protest. If I am a ''typical antipideon'' in your words then you are a typical loser in mine.

I don't think they should attack the police or bring any weapons, or even defend themselves with weapons, I wouldn't. However if you're going somewhere legitimately and legally and you have good reason to believe you will be attacked, then it is sensible to take precautions. The fact it's the police attacking you is irrelevant. It doesn't matter. I can see why they did it.

The Mighty Ken

PeakOutput wrote: »

there is a great factually based film on riots in america(think it was baltimore or chicago) and it tells the story very well from both sides

Possibly Battle in Seattle that you're talking about - directed by Howth native (and jammy bastard) Stuart Townsend as well as it happens.

Anyway, youcrazyjesus! must be a bit confused if he's/she's suggesting that the majority of peaceful protests, certainly in Ireland and UK anyway, turn violent because of the police. Peaceful protests don't include ramming police barracades or throwing glass or rocks at them. By all means protest peacefully but if you get a truncheon across the head for being a dickhead, you deserve it.

The Mighty Ken

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Police were needlessly violent attacking 100% peaceful protestors

Yeah but they weren't.

andrew

Doing something like that would be a huge feckin waste of political capital.

Nodin

Hammiepeters wrote: »

What about Jihadi in the sense that they would like to wipe Israel off the map in a holy war?

Some of them would, some of them indicated they'd give de facto recognition after they were elected. However they are nowhere near as extreme or as "global" in intent as their sunni counterparts.

Hammiepeters wrote: »

we can end up actually supporting something quite evil and sinister.

Yes, the '3bbil muzlims'....

You seem to be perfectly happy to see them occupied for another 40 years. Any reason?

Hammiepeters

It is good that something as local as these demonstrations can be used to undermine any credibility that crazyjesus had when it came to his earlier comments and slant on middle eastern politics. He is entirely selective in his analysis of just about everything. I think everyone else can make up their minds about whats transpired in the Uk over the weekend.

PeakOutput

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Police were needlessly violent attacking 100% peaceful protestors. As seen in camera footage.

link please because what i saw was a line of riot police across oconnell street with a large number of protesters about 200 ft away from them with hooligans in the middle throwing bricks and glass bottles at the police. the police did nothing but film what was happening until business premises started being attacked by these same hooligans at which point they walked in a line en mass pushing everyone back off oconnell street. now bear in mind i was 50 ft or less away from all of this now tell me what i missed please?

its off topic but it does go a long way to demonstrate how you are simply anti establishment in any form

ye battle in seattle was it mighty ken i thought it was a great film and is apparently very accurate in its portrayl(sp) of both sides

The Mighty Ken

PeakOutput wrote: »

it does go a long way to demonstrate how you are simply anti establishment in any form

+1. A bit too much upstartery from him and completely incapable of intelligent, reasoned debate. Back on-topic I reckon...

Davidius

We can just kill anybody who advocates the killing of civilians.

Come on, it'd be really funny!

Hammiepeters

[QUOTE=Nodin;58559152

You seem to be perfectly happy to see them occupied for another 40 years. Any reason?[/QUOTE]Occupied ,No. I dont see that as a solution. I would like to see them integrated and represnted in a greater fairer Israel. A two state solution will not work. You will have one prosperous democratic nation and one basket case with a chip on it's shoulder. Ultimately better representation and fair play for Palestinians in Israel is the solution. But it's a long way off.

The Mighty Ken

Hammiepeters wrote: »

Occupied ,No. I dont see that as a solution. I would like to see them integrated and represnted in a greater fairer Israel. A two state solution will not work. You will have one prosperous democratic nation and one basket case with a chip on it's shoulder. Ultimately better representation and fair play for Palestinians in Israel is the solution. But it's a long way off.

I'm not saying a two state solution would work particularly well but it's really the only viable option. Integrating Palestinians into an expanded Israel? :eek: You have got to be kidding me - that could never happen.

Davidius

Go back in time and eliminate Hitler.

Problem solved!

Judgement Day

Well like all things on the Boards we have veered way off topic and back a few times but perhaps we should conduct a poll here to see who supports my suggestion to send the Israeli Ambassador home? How do you set up a poll - please - anyone?

I intend calling to my local, and utterly useless, FF TD John Brown here in Sunny Diego G. this week and letting him know how I feel. The FG Chief Whip also resides in this tropical paradise and he too will receive a visit. I know it is pointless but what else can I do?

PeakOutput

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well like all things on the Boards we have veered way off topic and back a few times but perhaps we should conduct a poll here to see who supports my suggestion to send the Israeli Ambassador home? How do you set up a poll - please - anyone?

I intend calling to my local, and utterly useless, FF TD John Brown here in Sunny Diego G. this week and letting him know how I feel. The FG Chief Whip also resides in this tropical paradise and he too will receive a visit. I know it is pointless but what else can I do?

at least your willing to get off arse and do something about what you believe in even if i completely disagree with you i gotta admire that

youcrazyjesus!

PeakOutput wrote: »

its off topic but it does go a long way to demonstrate how you are simply anti establishment in any form

Your "eyewitness" report is wrong, I'm certain of it. I actually have a lot of time for the Gardai, always been very good to deal with in my experience. There are circumstances though where they behave like complete *****, Reclaim The Streets was one of them. Fact.

Hammiepeters

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

I'm not saying a two state solution would work particularly well but it's really the only viable option. Integrating Palestinians into an expanded Israel? :eek: You have got to be kidding me - that could never happen.

Integrating Irish Nationalists into a United Kingdom Of Britain and Northern Ireland could never happen either, could it?

Davidius

Hammiepeters wrote: »

Integrating Irish Nationalists into a United Kingdom Of Britain and Northern Ireland could never happen either, could it?

Nope! :pac:

PeakOutput

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Reclaim The Streets was one of them. Fact.

you are right about reclaim the streets but the people responsible were held accountable its not a tyranical reign like your posts make out and i just told you what i saw when i was there if there is video of garda violence fine but i saw a very very restrained police force that day.

anyway its off topic as has already been said.

Darragh29

Could any Israeli supporter on the thread have a look at the two pics below and possibly explain a single difference between them, apart from: a few decades, white sheets and one pic being color and another black and white???

Tech3

Hammiepeters wrote: »

Occupied ,No. I dont see that as a solution. I would like to see them integrated and represnted in a greater fairer Israel. A two state solution will not work. You will have one prosperous democratic nation and one basket case with a chip on it's shoulder. Ultimately better representation and fair play for Palestinians in Israel is the solution. But it's a long way off.

I can see that happening alright, the Israelis will be living in fear everyday of Hamas and suicide bombers. Its obvious that gaza has to be contained until Hamas is destroyed. There are a terrorist organisation and lifting Israels borders with gaza wont enable peace. I dont condone what they are doing at the moment however and also what they did in the first place, cripple gazas ecomony which has been the catalyst Hamas gaining power in the first place.

PeakOutput

Darragh29 wrote: »

Could any Israeli supporter on the thread have a look at the two pics below and possibly explain a single difference between them, apart from: a few decades, white sheets and one pic being color and another black and white???

are you for real? you could add in a picture of dead bodies after the tsunami and ask what is the difference. the pictures both show human tradgedy but other than that they are completely unrelated

HIVeindhoven

Darragh29

PeakOutput wrote: »

are you for real? you could add in a picture of dead bodies after the tsunami and ask what is the difference. the pictures both show human tradgedy but other than that they are completely unrelated

Well I think you would call a tsunami an act of God, and nothing in the pics I've posted are a result of an act of God.

You must be brainwashed indeed to be able to conclude that an act of God or a natural disaster is comparable with the deliberate slaugher of innocent human beings. All I'm saying is that the Jewish people seem to have an extraordinarily short memory.

wes

Palestinians capture violence of Israeli occupation on video


In a graphic and hard-hitting film Peter Beaumont speaks to Palestinians filming abuse from settlers and Israeli armed forces

An Israeli child from a far-right settler group in the West Bank city of Hebron hurls a stone up the stairs of a Palestinian family close to their settlement and shouts: "I will exterminate you." Another spits towards the same family.

Another settler woman pushes her face up to a window and snarls: "Whore!"

click here for the video

Amazing what both sides teach there children. Its really sad and sickening.

Also, Memri are know for being a dodgy source. Here is the source watch article on Memri:

Sourcewatch.org article on Memri

youcrazyjesus!

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

This shows a complete lack of understanding of Egypt. Basically, Egypt is in the back pocket of the Americans and will do as their told.

Every Arab state is terrified that Hamas might provide a good example and so they are a threat and have to be stopped.

A good example of what exactly?

K-9

PERSONALLY, You are all talking SHI*E!

Live in the Gaza etc. just like NI and we'll know the truth.

Anybody on this thread live there?

youcrazyjesus!

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

A good example of what exactly?

For Arabs, they would see Hamas as non corrupt and not beholdent to Americans.
this is the good example as far as ARABs are concerned.

pow wow

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well I think you would call a tsunami an act of God, and nothing in the pics I've posted are a result of an act of God.

You must be brainwashed indeed to be able to conclude that an act of God or a natural disaster is comparable with the deliberate slaugher of innocent human beings. All I'm saying is that the Jewish people seem to have an extraordinarily short memory.

To be fair the photos you used represent two very different things. You're likening a concerted plan of total extermination to what is, at the moment, 'apparently' ('allegedly', 'supposedly', whatever) collateral damage in a conflict situation. Drawing parallels between the two, other than the loss of civilian life, is over-simplifying the current situation.

Nodin

Hammiepeters wrote: »

Occupied ,No. I dont see that as a solution. I would like to see them integrated and represnted in a greater fairer Israel. A two state solution will not work. You will have one prosperous democratic nation and one basket case with a chip on it's shoulder. Ultimately better representation and fair play for Palestinians in Israel is the solution. But it's a long way off.

And I asked you earlier - Why do you think they didn't just annex into Israeli jurisdiction the whole lot 40 years ago?

Hammiepeters

Nodin wrote: »

And I asked you earlier - Why do you think they didn't just annex into Israeli jurisdiction the whole lot 40 years ago?

Sometimes things are not fair, mistakes are made,mistrust abounds, etc. All of these things exist between Israel and Arab peoples. A new approach is overdue. But I'm not seeing much sense or other suggestions. With the exception of course of this two state arrangement, which I think you'll agree is not going so well.

munchester29

Darragh29 wrote: »

Could any Israeli supporter on the thread have a look at the two pics below and possibly explain a single difference between them, apart from: a few decades, white sheets and one pic being color and another black and white???

Simplistic propaganda again?

munchester29

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

For Arabs, they would see Hamas as non corrupt and not beholdent to Americans.
this is the good example as far as ARABs are concerned.

And, the Palestinians benefited so much from their Hamas rule... They really prosper now... Everybody in the region must be so envious of how much they have improved their lives.

youcrazyjesus!

munchester29 wrote: »

And, the Palestinians benefited so much from their Hamas rule... They really prosper now... Everybody in the region must be so envious of how much they have improved their lives.

That is exactly my point. You've hit the nail on the head in a profound way. This was achieved by the blockade, political isolation and a criminal terrorist attack that has collectively punished the Palestinians in quite an ugly way.

youcrazyjesus!

munchester29 wrote: »

Simplistic propaganda again?

It's called a question. How can a question be propaganda? Answer it.

munchester29

Nodin wrote: »

And I asked you earlier - Why do you think they didn't just annex into Israeli jurisdiction the whole lot 40 years ago?

That's simple - anyone in the middle east who actually knows and lives with the Palestinians doesn't really want anything to do with them - they are trouble.
That's why Egypt & Jordan refused Israel's offer to assume control again over Gaza and the west bank (as it was prior to the 1967 war, when Israel conquered Gaza & the west bank from Egypt & Jordan).

bada_bing

i think people should ask themselves how it would feel if all of population in the ROI were forced to live in a small area such as Limerick ( gaza is roughly smaller than the county of limerick) completely barricaded from the world and don't forget to mention you can't ever leave the area and live in dilapidated conditions while the rest is occupied by people living in lavish wealthy conditions!!!!!

munchester29

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

That is exactly my point. You've hit the nail on the head in a profound way. This was achieved by the blockade, political isolation and a criminal terrorist attack that has collectively punished the Palestinians in quite an ugly way.

Well, if the Palestinians want to get rid of the blockade and the political isolation, they shouldn't constantly be firing rockets and attacking Israel.

The Palestinians seem to want all the privileges of a sovereign state, without any of the responsibilities. They want to be treated as a state, yet they follow a terrorist organization which employs terrorist tactics.

youcrazyjesus!

munchester29 wrote: »

That's simple - anyone in the middle east who actually knows and lives with the Palestinians doesn't really want anything to do with them - they are trouble.

Slander. The exact same thing was said about dispersed Jewish populations for centuries.

That's why Egypt & Jordan refused Israel's offer to assume control again over Gaza and the west bank (as it was prior to the 1967 war, when Israel conquered Gaza & the west bank from Egypt & Jordan).

When has Israel offered to hand back these occupied territories to anybody?

munchester29

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

It's called a question. How can a question be propaganda? Answer it.

I'll give you an example:

Since both want the complete destruction of the state of Israel, and the death of all Jews, what's the difference between Hamas and the Nazis?

Hammiepeters

munchester29 wrote: »

That's simple - anyone in the middle east who actually knows and lives with the Palestinians doesn't really want anything to do with them - they are trouble.
That's why Egypt & Jordan refused Israel's offer to assume control again over Gaza and the west bank (as it was prior to the 1967 war, when Israel conquered Gaza & the west bank from Egypt & Jordan).

They are not ''trouble''. Trouble abounds and it's the reponsibility of all parties to fix it. Remember it's not long ago that the Irish were considered trouble, untrustworthy drunks.

munchester29

bada_bing wrote: »

i think people should ask themselves how it would feel if all of population in the ROI were forced to live in a small area such as Limerick ( gaza is roughly smaller than the county of limerick) completely barricaded from the world and don't forget to mention you can't ever leave the area and live in dilapidated conditions while the rest is occupied by people living in lavish wealthy conditions!!!!!

This type of question has been answered enough times. Do a bit of reading.

youcrazyjesus!

munchester29 wrote: »

Well, if the Palestinians want to get rid of the blockade and the political isolation, they shouldn't constantly be firing rockets and attacking Israel.

If Israel wants to get rid of the rocket attacks, it should support Hamas' earlier credible efforts in reducing rockets to almost nil (as per a New York Times report), should stop assassinating Palestinians and should remove the blockade as per it's agreements in negotiates with Hamas.

Israel has no interest in doing any of this though. The objective is to destroy Hamas and any hope of a viable Palestinian state. Not to end rocket attacks.

The Palestinians seem to want all the privileges of a sovereign state, without any of the responsibilities.

Waffle, illogical and completely untrue.

They want to be treated as a state, yet they follow a terrorist organization which employs terrorist tactics.

The terrorist organisation from their point of view is Israel. It has been for over 60 years (or whatever the terrorists were calling themselves before then) and with 900 dead, a civilian infrastructure completely destroyed and the population subject to an invasion now they're excused from thinking that.

Hammiepeters

bada_bing wrote: »

i think people should ask themselves how it would feel if all of population in the ROI were forced to live in a small area such as Limerick ( gaza is roughly smaller than the county of limerick) completely barricaded from the world and don't forget to mention you can't ever leave the area and live in dilapidated conditions while the rest is occupied by people living in lavish wealthy conditions!!!!!

It's not lavish anywhere over there for normal folk. Houses and flats are small, security is always a problem and war comes along every few years. The only thing in common with Ireland is CRH Roadstone. They built the wall.

youcrazyjesus!

munchester29 wrote: »

I'll give you an example:

Since both want the complete destruction of the state of Israel, and the death of all Jews, what's the difference between Hamas and the Nazis?

That's a statement followed by a question.

bada_bing

munchester29 wrote: »

This type of question has been answered enough times. Do a bit of reading.

Yeah i did some reading alright, i checked your post history on boards.ie, every single one of them is about defending Israel. That makes you a diehard fanatic who will disregard any unbiased opinion that is less than favourable about Israel. Check my post history on boards and you'll see that i have never posted about Israel before.

munchester29

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Slander. The exact same thing was said about dispersed Jewish populations for centuries.



When has Israel offered to hand back these occupied territories to anybody?

To assume control:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3492328.stm

youcrazyjesus!

munchester29 wrote: »

To assume control:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3492328.stm

Okay, so a tiny corridor along the border of a tiny strip of land. Fair enough.

Also in that article, a big part of the reason Egypt is in league with Israel with respect to Gaza:

"Egypt is also reportedly worried that the spread of Hamas' power in Gaza will influence Islamic fundamentalists in Egypt and destabilise Hosni Mubarak's government."

munchester29

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

If Israel wants to get rid of the rocket attacks, it should support Hamas' earlier credible efforts in reducing rockets to almost nil (as per a New York Times report), should stop assassinating Palestinians and should remove the blockade as per it's agreements in negotiates with Hamas.

Israel has no interest in doing any of this though. The objective is to destroy Hamas and any hope of a viable Palestinian state. Not to end rocket attacks.

I’ve shown enough times how the only steps for peace were ever taken by Israel, and how Hamas has only reciprocated by increasing attacks.

The fired rocket numbers were not reduced to almost nil as you say, and it doesn’t really matter since even one rocket fired is more than should be under a ceasefire. If Israel gets over 3000 rockets in 2008, then they can’t be expected not to respong and protect their citizens.

Israel will remove the blockade when Hamas stops their arming process and stops attacking Israel. Israel already tried leaving Gaza, but all that got the Israelis was more attacks by Hamas, and more Israeli citizens in firing range.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Waffle, illogical and completely untrue.

Oh. But it is very true.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

The terrorist organisation from their point of view is Israel. It has been for over 60 years (or whatever the terrorists were calling themselves before then) and with 900 dead, a civilian infrastructure completely destroyed and the population subject to an invasion now they're excused from thinking that.

Considering Israel too over Gaza & the west bank in 1967, I’d say we are talking about 40 years, not 60.

If people don’t want 900 dead, a civilian infrastructure completely destroyed and the population subject to an invasion, then they shouldn’t be constantly attacking their much stronger neighbour.

munchester29

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

That's a statement followed by a question.

I was commenting on a post where a statement was made, following by a question - Showing the pictures was the same as making a statement.