ATI

Mellor

Arry wrote: »

Ah, you lads, you're hilarious...

"Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative"

You seam to have a deep love of quotes, Wilde quotes paticularly. The last one is hardly relevant to anything mentioned.
You are just being critical, for no apparant reason. Its a little silly.

“The critic has to educate the public; the artist has to educate the critic.”

pseudo-tech

Can anyone understand why the new poster (who obviously put a lot of time and consideration into their post), is so hostile in their response? The general consensus, is that there has been a stunning lack of communication from the IATGN. is it any wonder why we are all disillusioned?

I for one do not see any problem with asking questions of an organisation that is there to represent Architectural Technician's. The culture in Irish society in relation to most organisations is closed door governance where they do not like their actions to be questioned e.g. Anglo Irish Bank, HSE etc. Why is this????

I find being referred to as a cynic as comical. I have watched this type of tactic before, used to try and draw people away from the real concerns. Like it or not there seems to be a lot of people dissatisfied with the current performance of the IATGN. Get over it.

Referring to us as 'you lot' is a ploy to try and create division amongst the Technician community. What is the criteria that determines the distinction between supporting the IATGN or not? Do we not live in a democratic society, whereby you have a choice in who represents you whilst also being able to question their activities or lack of as the case may be?

It would be nice to hear from the IATGN or have we already?

archtech

Few Points
It is great that there’s the BERAA for BER Assessors however one has to remember that:
The “educational” requirements for a BER Assessor are standard , set out and monitored by a single body in SEI . You do the course, you past the exam you pay your fee and you register with SEI nice and simple.
Furthermore the BERAA , in essence has only to deal with SEI.
However fair play to the BERAA for setting up at a relatively early stage, as I think not only will it be of benefit to BER Assessors but long term it will benefit everyone including SEI, particularly if it provides quality feedback to SEI on BERs.

With Architectural Technology things aren’t as clear cut.
1. The only thing in common at present in education between all the Architectural Technology courses is the name, there’s some excellent courses, some good ones and some awlful ones, so naturally the ATI have to establish a reasonable educational requirement for entry, then of course there’s all of us existing AT’s, how are qualifications and experience measured?
2. There’s the likes of the law society, banks etc to be dealt with
3. The list goes on.

However that doesn’t mean that ATI/IATGN shouldn’t keep us in the picture and upto date on progress. They seem to have gone away from the “network” element.Which is a great pity. There was an opportunity for the IATGN for establish a “social” network where members could meet up at an event have a chat , meet other AT’s in similar or different backrounds, share experiences with each other and learn, but this has now been eliminated . People in most walks of life (and organisations) will tell you that you will learn as much if not more from talking to and similar people and they sharing their experiences rather than attending a formal talk/lecture/information evening.

It looks like boards.ie has to fill that void.;)

smashey

archtech wrote: »

It looks like boards.ie has to fill that void.;)

You hit on something there archtech.

When this forum was created, I told Vexorg that this could become a place where all Architectural Technicians/Technologists could use as a sort of central meeting place. We seem to have a few now and, I dare say, we all know a lot more who don't post here.

Given the fact that there is obviously a lot of discontent regarding IATGN, would it be an idea to maybe try to form another representative body starting here? I know it certainly woldn't be easy but with the right push and attitude, it could be done.

pseudo-tech

Smashey, I think that is a good idea. I believe that archtech is on the right path, talking about Architectural Technician's as a network of professionals that can assist one another (strength in numbers). However, even though i'm frustrated with the IATGN, I would like to see them involved also. In order for that to happen they need to stop the Orwellian approach to overseeing their kingdom and embrace the Technician community.

I believe that there are posters on this forum that either know committee members personally of there are committee members posting here. I would call on those posters to request that the IATGN come out and discuss there position before another group is put in place. A small amount of collaboration between all may create something that everyone is proud of and not just the select few.

smashey

Maybe the IATGN need a kick up the collective backsides of the committee? I'm pretty sure they must be aware of this forum but haven't made their presence known. Compare that with CIAT and their "hands on" approach to queries. If anybody does happen to know a committee member, maybe an invitation should be extended to them to register here and look at what's happening and gauge the mood of the AT's?

sydthebeat

Arry, technicians generally have the personality of people who need to be informed and in touch... we need to be like this to be good at out jobs... always seeking info, researching and disseminating, so its completely understandable that we would feel frustrated by the lack of communication from the ATI committee.

isnt the whole country frustrated by the lack of communication by the government at the moment!!

There is NO ONE here that wishes to critise the committee for the work they are doing, we all understand that this is on a voluntary basis. But also remember that many here have also volunteered to help, myself included.

There was a suggestion by members at the last national meeting to provide financial assistance. This was declined by the committee, but if it would help things in ANY WAY i think it should be accepted...

muffler

Right. Who has a copy of IATGN's mailing list?

sydthebeat

people

the ATI can be reached at:

info@architecturaltechnology.ie

at any stage...

I would urge anyone who has queries or comments to contact the ATI first, before posting here in a manner that may appear critical...

muffler

smashey wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they must be aware of this forum but haven't made their presence known.

They most definitely ARE aware of the forum. Remember?

smashey

muffler wrote: »

They most definitely ARE aware of the forum. Remember?

No6

I think one of the problems with the forum on their own website was that it was completely unmoderated and there were some totally dreadful posts about various comittee members which was grossly unfair. I would suggest to the IATGN / ATI that if they have a pro that they register as ATI PRO and keep people updated with what is going on, even a regular ammount of small information not necessarily headline events just to keep people interested and involved and when issues arise let people know what is or is not happening. Smashey I dont think in fairness another body is the answer there's already two professional bodies in the RIAI and CIAT (I know one is fairly close to useless for technicians guess which!!) and this will be joined this year by the ATI. I for one do appreciate the effort they have and are putting in and I'm not on any IATGN ATI comittees (just in case you were wondering!!)

topcatcbr

I agree with No 6 we have enough rep bodies we do need another. We need ATI to get up and running ASAP. and working for us in a professional manner as a professional body. Some interation on this forum by them would be most welcome. And i aplaud the CIAT for their work to date.

smashey

Good, everybody seems to be in agreement that more communication is required.

Would there be any objections to me e-mailing them from my boards address and inviting them to join the discussion?

pseudo-tech

That's a great idea Smashey. It would remove any ambiguity and speculation. Everything to be gained by all parties is a line of communication is opened up. Hopefully, the IATGN can inform Technician's of progress on a regular basis and also request assistance in a structured manner. Very positive indeed!

RKQ

Interesting timing yet again! I always thought "they" were very aware of this forum. Two excellent examples above.

Arry is quite aggressive for a first post. Why?
Seems this issue is very close to your heart. Seems you are taking the comments very personally. Its like you feel we are disrespecting your efforts!

I don't want to sound like I'm knocking the IATGN / ATI or you Arry. ( I made a resolution & I going to stick to it!:D)

Arry you say you are an Architect. Cool! An Architect that holds Architectural Technology closer to his / her heart and having read these posts and IATGN forum (prior to it Censor) backs the Nat Committee.

Arry is entitled to express an opinion. I'd love to hear one thing that has been achieved by the National Committee? (In the last 12 months) Arry your "tone" is very familiar. There is nothing in concrete, its years since we had a vote.... its two years since we had a Regional meeting or CDP. (Remember that wet night Arry? You were so disappointed with the turnout) Its not very democratic way of doing things.

Many of us have offered our services but were ignored if we didn't follow a certain line - The "my way or no way" attitude. Many here may have experienced this.

The IATGN dropped the ball with the bank "issue". The Committee was short sighted. This IMO was the begining of the end.

IMO CIAT didn't have a great presentation at RDS original nation meeting - Plan Expro ( Thats Years ago!!:D) But they were excellent on this forum and really turned things around. They have provided excellent CPD also. They have inspired many and have reaped the rewards of extra membership - well done CIAT. A committee that achieves results, answers members questions and gets things done.

When I organised a meeting in Portlaoise the National Committee did a number of things to cause confusion and try to stop the meeting. I was then accused of trying to set up "The Real IATGN". I was shocked...

The IATGN Forum was turned off on the night of the meeting... what does that tell you? It spoke volumes to me.

Dispite the slow action, secrecy etc I still believe the IATGN can achieve great things but its got to up the ante!

The email is to IATGN members that are welcome in WIT today. Do not think IATGN members are ATI - exams / interviews etc have to be organised.

Why oh why is any mention of IATGN automatically seen as an attack? Can we grow some self confidence and allow healthy debate even allow critism? We need to grow up fast!

Hopefully we can grow together....;)

RKQ

Great idea Smashey! I'm fully in favour of honest healthy debate.

pseudo-tech

I have to agree with RKQs previous posts and would like to confirm that what he has said is correct. From the outset the IATGN have become so protective that it is obviously effecting performance. The reasons given for this secrecy is unhelpful posters, difficult questions, personal comments about individual members of the committee.

Unfortunately, when you put yourself forward for such a position you cannot be treated with kids gloves. The role that you have taken is too important to play games with or even to learn how to manage and govern. I accept that the ones that put their names forward should be commended, but at this stage all the learning is finished. You are aware of other Technician's with qualities and experiences that are broader than that of most of the committee members, but when advise and help is offered it is turned down due to no confidence.

All posters here appreciate the time, the effort, the stress and strain of those involved, but take off the blinkers and look at What is happening. Open discussions and stand up to the difficult questions and you will be rewarded by support from a group of committed people. Leaders don't hide, they stand up and take the hit squarely on the chin.

I for one will stand behind any group who is willing to take criticism and admit their faults, but are willing to change in order to move forward.

Poor Uncle Tom

OK, all fine sentiments, great ideas, willing participants, all on board, count me in, etc.,

Where to from here?

pseudo-tech

Still no response. It's starting to look like communication is not top of the IATGN agenda. Maybe the real reason for the removal of their own discussion forum was that they don't like being questioned. Not very democratic. Maybe Smashey's original idea is the way to go after all???

What do everyone else feel at this stage?

Poor Uncle Tom

smashey wrote: »

.........try to form another representative body starting here? I know it certainly woldn't be easy but with the right push and attitude, it could be done.......

Exactly what we are talking about, but as I said above. Where to from here? Do we...

a) Set up a meeting for sometime in, say, February, at some central location to exchange contacts, meet up, discuss issues.....kick things off, basically. (echo's of Portlaoise)

b) Set up a specific social group over boards.ie to get together that way.

c) Sit back and wait.......and wait........

pseudo-tech

Maybe RKQ, would like to develop what he started. He is after all the reason that this forum came about with the help of all the mods. The meeting in Portlaoise was born out of pure frustration. We all feel let down at this stage. So surely there is room for a new organisation or as i mentioned in a previous post do we rally in behind the CIAT??

muffler

Maybe a slight change in tactics needed. What if we can get more techies to sign up here and have a database of such proportions that some of the "recognised" organisations may want to weigh in behind us.

A pipe dream maybe.

pseudo-tech

"A pipe dream maybe"

I don't see why not. Technician's should be encouraged to visit this forum. More diversity, opinions and experiences, leading to richer discussions and debate. it may also awaken others to what is actually going on.

What's wrong with that.

pseudo-tech

If the IATGN are not willing to talk to the people who voted them in to the positions they hold, then would they be willing to circulate a two-liner to all technician's on their (our) database and tell them about this fantastic resource for our profession.

KadMunky

Hi I came across this community during a recent browse on the net. I must say i'm impressed to see a forum like this in operation-particularly for Arch Techs. I have recently graduated last Sept as a technologist and like many at the moment I am unemployed. While I am disappointed by this, I am more annoyed about the fact I can't pick up any experience. Money is good, but I need the opportunity to put my theory into practice and learn about problems that are faced on site every day. Thats why I think a forum like this is useful. It also gives an opportunity to network. I wonder would a sub-group for the purpose of networking be feasible???

RKQ

Nothing wrong with dreams! Anything can be achieved where there is a "will". How can we progress this issue? Any word from ATI?

I am very interested in these issues. Thanks for the mention pseudo-tech but I'm not interested in forming a new organisation. I would consider a "working group" connected to IATGN or something that could be assimilated later (even by CIAT!) Who knows... anything is possible.

I assume the IATGN is working on a standard Certificate of Compliance for members, membership standards / qualification - exams, experience, interview or CPD?

I'd like all Draughtmen, Cad technicians, Architectural Technicians, Architectural Technologists, Job-runners, Architectural Asistants etc to be able to join and rise within the organisation based on experience and blocks /ATI 10 week part-time courses, in local VEC or WIT maybe City & Guilds, Fetec etc. Or maybe CPD offered by many manufacturers could be added together per year for three years to equal full membership.

Membership qualifications will be an issue - what do people think is an acceptable standard?

Homebond offer Blow door tests and BER Assessments. As Designers of Homes, certifiers of construction, can we be affiliated in some way with Homebond?

As a group of Self Employed, can we get discounted PI insurance?

The Portlaoise 10 were all self-employed, many with staff. I often wondered as a group of Design offices spread all over Ireland, could we have tendered for a building program?
As a group could we offer a service to the Government, or a major Retailer on a National basis.


KadMunky I'm sure there is someone here who might be able to offer you a few days work experience here and there, depending on your location. Or there may also be others like me interested in BIM but not very experienced that might welcome a newly qualified individual with a few programming tricks. Full time job offers are scarse but keep looking.

At least try to get out on site, seeing is so important and offers so much practical experience. Its a difficult situation - can't get a job without experience, can't get experience without a job! We were all there but it will work out:)

KadMunky

RKQ, thank you for the advice. I am taking heed of it, but for the time being I am just hanging back and watching how things pan out. Jan and Feb are always depressing months for everyone, perhaps when April and May comes the future will look more positive.
I have just been reading over past posts on this-particularly in relation to ATI and Arry. I confess I have no knowledge of the specific issues (just the broad picture) but it seems to me that there is fighting and bitching going on over opinions. This does not nessecarily constitute a debate. Arry is being very aggressive in the sense that s/he refers to people as you lot. You say yer an architect who has worked as a techie, I would have thought this would make you an ideal person to ask how we can improve given your experience in the practice. Also I don't agree with the statement that they (RKQ etc.) are throwing stones from the sideline, they're merely questioning how things are moving along and could it be improved. Like design it is crucial to question all decisions and all possibilities. this is what seperates the professional from the jobsworth.
The ATI sounds like a complex issue at the moment (membership etc.) but in the email give the commitee members were named and as I remember there was a person selected for membership issues. perhaps that person should be contacted and just asked what are the plans for the future? and how can we progress to that? Remember united we stand, divided we fall. Then again perhaps I am commenting on issues I have not enough knowledge about:o

RKQ

I'm sure it will all work out well for you Kadmunky.:)

I'm not a Moderator so I can't speak for Boards.ie however I think its safe to say that honest opinions are welcome here.

I've never been anti-IATGN or ATI. I have been mis-understood in the past. I am interested in our future and an Irish Professional Body (Even if thats an Irish Office of the CIAT)

I can only speak for myself when I say that I am interested in positive progress. I greatly admire and respect all those who have given their free time, to help organise the IATGN and ATI. These volunteers should not free communication with us.

I am against secrecy, non-communication and undemocratic decisions. Open, free, honest debate is required.

I like many have offered our help. There are many who would still help in anyway they could to make progress if or where progress may be required.

We should work together to achieve reasonable goals within a reasonable time frame. Regular updates should be made on this forum, so that all of us are aware of progress, at a national level.

pseudo-tech

Again, I have to agree with RKQ, in his opinion of the situation. I for one as stated before will rally in behind any organisation that shows through leadership, integrity, professionalism and humility. A lot of the previous posts are borne out of pure frustration with the secrecy and fear of open debate. Everything should be questionable otherwise, people end up making decisions for personal interest rather then for the general good.

At this stage the IATGN are very much aware of this discussion forum and have not to date put forward a PR representative. I don't know if they made contact with anyone else associated with this forum or not. I would like at this stage to see a confident, open and transparent IATGN. Discuss the problems, answer the questions and i'm sure that the help will come. Asking for help while having no direction will lead to a disjointed and faulty process. Call in the help that has been offered, create a database of experience and qualifications so that you are aware of what other technician's have to offer but most of all open all lines of communication!