ATI

pseudo-tech · 25-03-2009 1:56pm

fatchops wrote: »

Should be interesting to hear what Cormac Allen has to say

Anything in particular you want to hear or just about the new courses that DIT are providing?

fatchops · 25-03-2009 3:06pm

Well the DIT courses are of interest certainly, but I would be interested to hear of any further developments that may be in the pipeline

pseudo-tech · 25-03-2009 3:08pm

fatchops wrote: »

Well the DIT courses are of interest certainly, but I would be interested to hear of any further developments that may be in the pipeline

Good point. It would be nice to hear some positive news from ATI and possibly where they intend to go from here!

fatchops · 25-03-2009 3:23pm

Could be 10 Euro well spent

pseudo-tech · 25-03-2009 3:38pm

fatchops wrote: »

Could be 10 Euro well spent

Agreed!!

ConfusedTech · 27-03-2009 6:46pm

pseudo-tech wrote: »

Is it not about time that Qualified Architectural Technicians/ Technologists are consulted about the workings of the Technical Guidance Documents. I for one feel that ATs should be playing a central role, if not given full responsibility for preparing them. We have given many examples of there failing together with many examples of where Architects don't understand them. When are Technicians going to stand up and be counted?? How can we position ourselves, in order to promote and expand our profession??

Agreed. Membership of the IBCI would assist in this!!! Can anybody report on the DIT meeting last night?

pseudo-tech · 31-03-2009 11:50am

ConfusedTech wrote: »

CIAT: Very good at what they do for Techs in the UK, but not an Irish organisation. I have no issues with the UK, or English people, but I dont think representation from an organisation outside the country is in our interest.

They are the only organisation with the credibility to represent Technicians, therefore i don't understand your concern in relation to them representing us here in Ireland

ConfusedTech wrote: »

ATI: Still the only answer if you want proper and professional representation. Full Stop. Why do people keep beating around the bush!!!

I would really love to hear your justification of that statement. You are in dream land!!

sydthebeat · 31-03-2009 11:56am

pseudo-tech wrote: »

I would certainly call Cormac's role on the IATGN into question at this stage taking on board his agenda in relation to DIT and his membership on the Technician committee within the RIAI. Too much control for my liking

be very, very careful here PT... any comments directly regarding a named person must be considered in full. Any comment that may be considered 'defamation' will result in the removal of the post and a site ban by the posters. Board.ie are extremely paranoid and cautious about this issue. I am not saying you would do this... this is not a threat, but just a word of warning. It would be a complete shame to loose your input because of something that may be construed as something else.... this is a very precarious area and one which all mods are warned to be extra cautious with.

pseudo-tech wrote: »

Syd. This is the third poster who feel that the applicants will be cherry picked. Where is the fairness here?? I feel that we are being used as pawns in the academic game and the personal promotion of those academics

PT each of you are giving your opinion... which is great!... but until someone backs this up with evidence then it only conjecture and not fact.

pseudo-tech wrote: »

This is a point that reared its head during a number of the IATGN discussions. I appreciate its not in place yet but the IATGN were certainly suggesting that the level 8 Degree would be the benchmark for entry into ATI. When challenged they suggested that experience would be looked at later but initially they would start with the Degree as an entry requirement. Now if we have to wait for them to implement this like we have waited for the I.T.s to set up adequate courses, we will be waiting a long time.

again, until someone has evidence of this being correct, it is supposition and conjecture and cannot be taken as fact or truth....

No6 · 31-03-2009 11:59am

RIAI: An architectural institute that has the right to serve its members as priority. Its main focus is on architects and not technicians and rightly so. SHould they be the governing body, well thats another days posting!

Spot on

CIAT: Very good at what they do for Techs in the UK, but not an Irish organisation. I have no issues with the UK, or English people, but I dont think representation from an organisation outside the country is in our interest.

They have achieved a lot of AT's in Ireland in the last while, AIB and SEI recognition to name two. Perhaps we should Ask them to do more, if we don't ask how will they know what we need.

IBCI: Could be a very good springboard for Techies, as we have a lot in common. This organisation could get a lot from us, and we could give a lot to them. An odd, but very good synergy.

They do not want AT's anywhere near them, they changed theier entry criteria when a few of us applied for membership, we will not find a love fest for us here!!!

ATI: Still the only answer if you want proper and professional representation. Full Stop. Why do people keep beating around the bush!!!

Time will tell, we have all invested a lot of hope (and some a lot of time!!) in ATI

muffler · 31-03-2009 12:00pm

pseudo-tech wrote: »

I would certainly call Cormac's role on the IATGN into question at this stage taking on board his agenda in relation to DIT and his membership on the Technician committee within the RIAI. Too much control for my liking

Syd responded to this ahead of me so I will leave it for now. But you might be better taking a step back from this as I can see only one outcome if your posts continue in the same vain.

ConfusedTech · 31-03-2009 12:12pm

Pseudo, I have dealt with your comments with respect and would ask that you deal with me with respect also. I have an opinion, which does not put me in dreamland, it just means that we live in a democracy where anything is possible.

My comment is fully this: Representation will be much better dealt with with a body that acts wholly on our behalf, within the Irish industry and manned by people who work here in the industry, otherwise we run the risk of becoming a close second in the the institution we join. I dont want to go to the UK for AGMs etc. Afilliation with other instutions would be great, but for the past 15 years the BIAT/CIAT have had the chance, and in my opinion lost it on numerous occasions!!!

When I say ATI, I do not spcifically relate to the IATGN, rather an institution for and by the Technicians, here on home soil. That is the ideal solution, and if my comments were taken up 5 years ago, we would have had one now. My reply then was that it would take 5 years to do this and the other routes are quicker! Look at us now!!!

If you want me to further explain myself, please see my posts in the the sections relating specifically to this.

pseudo-tech · 31-03-2009 12:21pm

For clarity, my comments are in relation to ANY individual with a controlling/ management position in different organisations that have different positions in relation to a similar topic. It is extremely hard to be objective in this position if you are wearing different hats. I cannot question the effort that Cormac has put into the development of ATs here in Ireland to date. Well done in my opinion. My point is that i would like each group (ITs v ATI, RIAI, CIAT) to be completly seperate at this stage so that progess by one group is not subject to the others approval.

Lets get some meaningful open discussions so that we can see some real progress!

sydthebeat · 31-03-2009 12:28pm

pseudo-tech wrote: »

My point is that i would like each group (ITs v ATI, RIAI, CIAT) to be completly seperate at this stage so that progess by one group is not subject to the others approval.

what evidence can you possible have that RIAI, CIAT or ATI require the approval of the other bodies in order to carry out their work???

i think you are seeing conspiracies where none exist.

pseudo-tech wrote: »

Lets get some meaningful open discussions so that we can see some real progress!

we ARE having a meaningful discussion here, but please remember to be respectful to other posters that do not share your opinion.

ConfusedTech · 31-03-2009 12:43pm

In defence of Cormac. When he embarked on the two, there were no people stepping forward, no issues of representation and certifying and no Bologne accord and he was the only person with the balls to do what he did and put the work in. It is unfortunate, but true that he is involved in both. I dont agree with all of his statements or beliefs, but I for one would be concerned with others taking over certain posts at this time. Is there a conflict of interest, most certainly, but welcome to Ireland. i think the result will be in the way he deals with any conflicting points between IATGN, RIAI, CIAT and DIT.

archtech · 31-03-2009 12:45pm

ConfusedTech wrote: »

Archtech, I dont think that the entry criteria will be dictated or benchmarked by DIT for the IAT, and it should not be, but if it is the first course set up, it may seem that way.

The beginings of the IATGN and resultant ATI grew out of DIT (I've no problem with that it had to start somewhere) and much of the driving force behind ATI have connections with DIT, so DIT is in a stronger position that any of the other educational establishments to influence policy to its sole benefit I believe, whether it does or does not, time will tell.
As a point of information DIT is not the first level 8 AT course in the country... WIT have one for a number of years and LIT had one with UK links many years ago, although it may not have been classified as level 8.

ConfusedTech wrote: »

I cant see the IAT stopping people from entry at the beginning. They will have to build their numbers.

There will be entry requirements to joining ATI. There will have to be if ATI is to be taken as a professional body, otherwise we will have a case similar to what happened with Domestic BERs, with ever joe soap jumping on the bandwagon. However this topic is not the pace to discuss that.

I dont want to go to the UK for AGMs etc

You don't have to go to the UK from AGM's, The AGM of the ROI Centre is comming up shortly in Dublin

for the past 15 years the BIAT/CIAT have had the chance, and in my opinion lost it on numerous occasions!!!

you might care to expand on this in a separate topic, as there is loads of evidence to demonstrate CIAT supporting/working on behalf of and lobbying for the Architectural Technology Profession in Ireland for many years.

sydthebeat · 31-03-2009 12:48pm

Right, im making a point now of outlawing any discussion pertaining to Cormac Allen or any other specific individual. Regardless if theres good or bad comments made.

I dont want to hear that they are synonymous to the debate. If you cant post without direct reference, then do not post... its that simple.

As ive stated above, mods are warned to be extremly cautious about this issue and we have been advise that the sanction will be a site ban.

ConfusedTech · 31-03-2009 1:01pm

Archtech:
I acknowledge that there are other level 8 courses, and have noted these before. I wasnt clear. I meant to say that if it was the first course set up to comply and affiliate with the new institution, which is a possibility, then it will become the benchmark. Being Level 8 does not mean that any course is good enough for the institutions, it just means that the course has done the paperwork to get the title. Look at the some of UK courses with the title and how poor the resulting technicians are from there! Please remember that there are a number of items intertwining were on the timeline. Colleges that had the level 8, dont necesarily match up to the requirements of RIAI, CIAT etc.

Yes I agree that the ATI will have to set down criteria. I am saying that it will have to open levels of entry like every other institution to get the numbers up. I am trying to keep off the subject of certification, which is another topic.

I would have to go to the UK for the main AGM, or to be invovled in the main institution. The ROI is only part of that, and I am aware of there AGM which is on the 25th April.

I wont get into the CIAT thing, as I honestly dont have anything against them. My only point is that in 15 years a seperate body should have been set up by them here affiliated, but not integrated with them to allow us deal with our own problems. They have done good work, but they have also dragged their heels. My point stands, which is at the end of the day, the techies in the UK will always get first deal if they come under pressure.

No6 · 31-03-2009 1:02pm

When he who can't be named arose and .... oops hang on thats Harry Potter!!!:D

ConfusedTech · 31-03-2009 1:08pm

Can we say, refer to the 'Dept head arch tech DIT'? or that guy in IATGN? ......OK maybe not. Sorry Syd. Will refrain from mentioning the One.

No6 · 31-03-2009 1:17pm

ConfusedTech wrote: »

I wont get into the CIAT thing, as I honestly dont have anything against them. My only point is that in 15 years a seperate body should have been set up by them here affiliated, but not integrated with them to allow us deal with our own problems. They have done good work, but they have also dragged their heels. My point stands, which is at the end of the day, the techies in the UK will always get first deal if they come under pressure.

Perhaps you should check the history of representation of At's in Ireland, in 1987 IAAT amalgmated with the then BIAT (due I believe to lack of support for an independant body) and became the Ireland Center, I think its the Irish AT's who've been dragging their heels. Theres a small percentage of AT's who are active in trying to improve the situation with AT's in Ireland with various bodies, the rest either don't care or are just waiting for their cake!!!

ConfusedTech · 31-03-2009 1:23pm

No6, I agree, and I agree that Techies are the ones to blame in the most part. I do know the history, or part thereof and I do apprecaite the CIAT. I would just ask that you acknowledge my position, which is that we dont need a centre, we need an Irish Institution that can make its own decisions, not one with guidance from outside the country. This will make a diffrence in 10 years, although maybe not now.

No6 · 31-03-2009 1:44pm

You could be right confused but 10 years is a long time, we've had the option but chose not to bother. You are entiled to your opinion on the Ireland Center I just don't agree with it. I engaged with CIAT following the IATGN's own report which reccomended that we all do this, (how many did I wonder??) and I have been an RIAI TECH for years. When a number of issues arose and were brought to the attention of the various parties CIAT proved from my point of view to be head and shoulders above the rest as they acted and are acting on the issues and are engaged with Irish Institutions on issues of concern to some Irish Technicians and anything they achieve will be of benefit to all techs. I fear it will be 20 years before ATI wil have the same clout.

No6 · 31-03-2009 1:49pm

muffler wrote: »

Can we keep this on topic please.

Sorry perhaps a lot of the last few posts should go into the old ATI or representation threads. So whats the name of the bloke giving the course about whats its name in that college in where do you call it???:D

muffler · 31-03-2009 2:01pm

Some of you may find it funny posting childish comments after a mod has asked for a particular direction to be taken.

There wont be any further warnings.

pseudo-tech · 31-03-2009 3:02pm

ConfusedTech wrote: »

No6, I agree, and I agree that Techies are the ones to blame in the most part. I do know the history, or part thereof and I do apprecaite the CIAT. I would just ask that you acknowledge my position, which is that we dont need a centre, we need an Irish Institution that can make its own decisions, not one with guidance from outside the country. This will make a diffrence in 10 years, although maybe not now.

ConfusedTech, we are all Europeans now, even more since our Government acted like a poor person who won the lotto. The point is that the world in now a small place. Getting the CIAT with all the credibility they have to come in and back us Technicians in this Country is ideal. Putting your hopes into a fledgling organisation, that will not have similar credibility for another 20 years is optimistic. To be honest, it will certainly keep Technicians in their place for a long time. That may suit certain people.

We need our academics to embrace the CIAT as the principal body for technician recognition and stop playing games with our futures. We have to look past personal gains and promotion and credibly support the Technicians who are out there flying the flag!

sydthebeat · 31-03-2009 3:11pm

pseudo-tech wrote: »

ConfusedTech, we are all Europeans now, even more since our Government acted like a poor person who won the lotto. The point is that the world in now a small place. Getting the CIAT with all the credibility they have to come in and back us Technicians in this Country is ideal. Putting your hopes into a fledgling organisation, that will not have similar credibility for another 20 years is optimistic. To be honest, it will certainly keep Technicians in their place for a long time. That may suit certain people.

We need our academics to embrace the CIAT as the principal body for technician recognition and stop playing games with our futures. We have to look past personal gains and promotion and credibly support the Technicians who are out there flying the flag!

Ok, thats it.

pseudo-tech.... you continue to flaunt forum rules therefore you have recieved a 1 week ban from the Arch Tech forum.

please read the forum charter and specifically
...."While all discussion and debate is welcome, it should be noted that the forum may not be used to establish or promote any particular group or organisation."

ConfusedTech · 31-03-2009 3:47pm

It is my opinion! and to be honest, there is another thread for this, so I am not dealing with it here, 'again'!!!

ConfusedTech · 31-03-2009 7:44pm

ConfusedTech wrote: »

It is my opinion! and to be honest, there is another thread for this, so I am not dealing with it here, 'again'!!!

Hang on, that was a ground hog/doctor who moment. My last post made sense when it was actually in another thread. That was an unfair move

muffler · 31-03-2009 8:35pm

Thats why you have the word "Confused" in your nick

treviesweets · 01-04-2009 9:49pm

I'll retract that cause I actually have a proper question to pose....

You know there's all this whoo ha about the DIT level 8 course being recognised as by the RIAI and all that in the other thread. I assume after finishing the level 8, the RIAI are only going to offer TRIAI membership, is that actually recognised by the banks and the law society?

muffler · 01-04-2009 10:58pm

treviesweets you would be doing yourself a great favour by reading the forum charters before posting again. You may find the answer to the question that you edited out of your post above.

No6 · 01-04-2009 11:32pm

treviesweets wrote: »

TRIAI membership, is that actually recognised by the banks and the law society?

In a word no and it will never be pushed by the RIAI not untill hell freezes over in my very humble opinion.

treviesweets · 01-04-2009 11:44pm

No6 wrote: »

In a word no and it will never be pushed by the RIAI not untill hell freezes over in my very humble opinion.

God yeah not a hope, as far as I've heard they have no interest in ever recognising the term 'Technologist' either, it's just not in their interest to develop our profession.

So again why the big hoo ha about any Architectural Technology course being accredited by them?

pseudo-tech · 07-04-2009 6:06pm

treviesweets wrote: »

God yeah not a hope, as far as I've heard they have no interest in ever recognising the term 'Technologist' either, it's just not in their interest to develop our profession.

So again why the big hoo ha about any Architectural Technology course being accredited by them?

Because "thats the way things are done around here". It is good to question the status quo. Why have we accepted this? Why do we give certain individuals too much credibility? Why do we accept being used as pawns for financing academic courses? Keep questioning and repositioning the spotlight and we will create positive change.

ConfusedTech · 07-04-2009 6:15pm

treviesweets wrote: »

God yeah not a hope, as far as I've heard they have no interest in ever recognising the term 'Technologist' either, it's just not in their interest to develop our profession.

So again why the big hoo ha about any Architectural Technology course being accredited by them?

Well, whether we like it or not the RIAI have a big role in Architecture in Ireland, Certification, advising on legislation and to the government, and correct me if I am wrong, are they not the centre of the registration of the 'architect'. They would be a key organisation to give the thumbs up to the courses, and the reality is, if they dont, who else will? They are not there to represent us, but their say on acreditation and the likes is very strong at the moment. This will change in teh future, but until we have a sole representitive body in Ireland, we are a little snookered.

pseudo-tech · 07-04-2009 6:22pm

ConfusedTech wrote: »

Well, whether we like it or not the RIAI have a big role in Architecture in Ireland, Certification, advising on legislation and to the government, and correct me if I am wrong, are they not the centre of the registration of the 'architect'. They would be a key organisation to give the thumbs up to the courses, and the reality is, if they dont, who else will? They are not there to represent us, but their say on acreditation and the likes is very strong at the moment. This will change in teh future, but until we have a sole representitive body in Ireland, we are a little snookered.

Could the CIAT not provide this in the near future and the possibility of ATI at some stage in the distant future, when they are properly set up??? Why not? Their interests would be more aligned with Technicians. Should Technician representation not be accrediting technician courses??

It certain looks a little bit left of field what is currently going on!!

ConfusedTech · 07-04-2009 6:36pm

pseudo-tech wrote: »

Could the CIAT not provide this in the near future and the possibility of ATI at some stage in the distant future, when they are properly set up??? Why not? Their interests would be more aligned with Technicians. Should Technician representation not be accrediting technician courses??

It certain looks a little bit left of field what is currently going on!!

Agreed, we should be representing ourselves, but I personally dont feel that the CIAT, IIAT, IATGN or IBCI could accredit these courses in any way meaningful, YET. I do suggest that in the future this would be the ideal case, but at the moment we need an interim measure.

I wont get involved in the current scenario, as I do agree with you Pseudo. There is something odd and off the rails happening. Until it unfolds from the current bodies, I would only be speculating, but I do feel that something that should have been relatively easy 5 years ago, seems to have become highly political and complicated.

pseudo-tech · 07-04-2009 6:41pm

ConfusedTech wrote: »

Agreed, we should be representing ourselves, but I personally dont feel that the CIAT, IIAT, IATGN or IBCI could accredit these courses in any way meaningful, YET. I do suggest that in the future this would be the ideal case, but at the moment we need an interim measure.

I wont get involved in the current scenario, as I do agree with you Pseudo. There is something odd and off the rails happening. Until it unfolds from the current bodies, I would only be speculating, but I do feel that something that should have been relatively easy 5 years ago, seems to have become highly political and complicated.

I understand I get an uneasy feeling of being controlled and directed by people who don't have mine or other Technicians best interests at heart!!

muffler · 07-04-2009 7:11pm

pseudo-tech wrote: »

I understand I get an uneasy feeling of being controlled and directed by people who don't have mine or other Technicians best interests at heart!!

Who do you feel is controlling you or steering you in a particular direction? Surely you dont believe this?

and i wont call you surely again

pseudo-tech · 07-04-2009 7:32pm

muffler wrote: »

Who do you feel is controlling you or steering you in a particular direction? Surely you dont believe this?

and i wont call you surely again

There are a number of organisations/ individuals out there who purport to be looking after our interests but are not! However, it would be unfair and against boards rules to post who they are here!

muffler · 07-04-2009 7:38pm

pseudo-tech wrote: »

There are a number of organisations/ individuals out there who purport to be looking after our interests but are not! However, it would be unfair and against boards rules to post who they are here!

Yes its best not to name them. You are however straying away from the comment you made but surely no one or no group can make you do something that you dont want to do. I would have thought that you'd be strong enough to say no or turn your back.

topcatcbr · 07-04-2009 8:21pm

Just a point to note. All irish construction Hons degrees are accredited by CIOB.

pseudo-tech · 07-04-2009 10:50pm

muffler wrote: »

Yes its best not to name them. You are however straying away from the comment you made but surely no one or no group can make you do something that you dont want to do. I would have thought that you'd be strong enough to say no or turn your back.

Cheap response really! I have turned my back on certain organisations and certainly said no. I have mapped out my own course to professional recognition without hanging on to others coat tails, which is a favourite pastime of some people.

The problem here in Ireland is that two many people are in important positions without merit. Too many people progress because of parochial cronyism. However, I've paddled my own boat, can you say the same???

muffler · 07-04-2009 11:09pm

pseudo-tech wrote: »

Cheap response really!

im sorry you feel that way. You post something but you cant accept anyone offering a different viewpoint or simply commenting on the content of your post.

pseudo-tech wrote: »

I have turned my back on certain organisations and certainly said no. I have mapped out my own course to professional recognition without hanging on to others coat tails, which is a favourite pastime of some people.

Just let me remind you what you actually said which is this

pseudo-tech wrote: »

I understand I get an uneasy feeling of being controlled and directed by people who don't have mine or other Technicians best interests at heart!!

So in one post you are telling us that you feel you are being controlled and directed by someone or some group yet in you last post you tell us that you have said no,turned your back and are basically paddling your own canoe. It doesnt add up.

pseudo-tech wrote: »

The problem here in Ireland is that two many people are in important positions without merit. Too many people progress because of parochial cronyism.

I think we all know that. Its nothing.

pseudo-tech wrote: »

However, I've paddled my own boat, can you say the same???

I resent that accusation. You know absolutely nothing about me but yet you are prepared to make certain inferences. I had these paranoid accusations made before and Im damned if Im going to have them made again.

pseudo-tech · 07-04-2009 11:36pm

muffler wrote: »

Just let me remind you what you actually said which is thisSo in one post you are telling us that you feel you are being controlled and directed by someone or some group yet in you last post you tell us that you have said no,turned your back and are basically paddling your own canoe. It doesnt add up.

Just to clear up this point. I firmly believe that Technicians here in Ireland are being used as pawns by ITs and certain professional organisations (i'm sure you will understand my need not to name these groups specifically). Maybe for clarity I should have stated that Technicians in general are being controlled and directed, rather than myself. I can understand how my comment may have misdirected you. My fault entirely.

muffler wrote: »

im sorry you feel that way. You post something but you cant accept anyone offering a different viewpoint or simply commenting on the content of your post.

Ditto!

muffler wrote: »

I resent that accusation. You know absolutely nothing about me but yet you are prepared to make certain inferences. I had these paranoid accusations made before and Im damned if Im going to have them made again.

You questioned me and in return, I asked you the very same question. I can assure you I am not paranoid and if that comment is directed at me, I resent it!

smashey · 07-04-2009 11:53pm

Guys, keep to the topic here and quit the tit for tat posting or this thread will be locked.

pseudo-tech · 06-08-2009 8:30pm

Any news on ATI??

pseudo-tech · 12-10-2009 1:45pm

Yesterday was the third anniversary of the formation of ATI. I was wondering at this stage like the Green Party was there a need for a mid-term review. I haven't heard anything from them in a while. I was wondering was there any progress or is everything on the back boiler due to the current economic climate??

Mellor · 13-10-2009 2:20am

pseudo-tech wrote: »

Yesterday was the third anniversary of the formation of ATI. I was wondering at this stage like the Green Party was there a need for a mid-term review. I haven't heard anything from them in a while. I was wondering was there any progress or is everything on the back boiler due to the current economic climate??

I imagien the current economic climate has severely hinder, and even totally stopped progress. Based on the origins of the ATI, the educational end funding has most likely been cut. As well as the fact that most of the support came from Kingspan, moy materials etc.

It's a situation Joesph Heller himself would be proud of. If we all paid a membership, they would have a resource to make progress, yet nobody will pay for memberdship until there is progress.

However, It is good news to see that the add-on degree has started, which originally spawn from the ATI previous incarnation.

sydthebeat · 13-10-2009 9:40am

Mellor wrote: »

It's a situation Joesph Heller himself would be proud of. If we all paid a membership, they would have a resource to make progress, yet nobody will pay for memberdship until there is progress.
.

i wouldnt agree with this.

I remember at the IATGN meeting in the RDs that set up the ATI, there was many many members there who offered to pay some kind of membership.
The problem was that the ATI had no 'professional standards' generated at that point so they did not want to take money from persons who may not have the relevant qualification / experience to join the ATI when the time arose.

I do find it frustrating that its 3 years on and there is no communication with ATI members of any real progress, or even communication as to where there is obstacles. I understand that many of the committee members are under pressure in teh current climate, as we all are. After all, 50% of technicians will have lost their jobs by the end of the year compared to say Q4 2007.

The building control act and the registration of the title of architect has sped up a process in which the end game is ultimately the control of chartered bodies over certification and possibly even design / planning. Its up to architectural technicians to organise themselves in a relevant body to be commensurate to chartered bodies such as RIAI, ACEI etc. Whether that body is ATI, RIAI or CIAT is still to be seen, but personally, i see one clear body that seems interested in representing irish architectural technicians... and its not RIAI or ATI (sadly)

ATI

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