ATI

muffler

treviesweets you would be doing yourself a great favour by reading the forum charters before posting again. You may find the answer to the question that you edited out of your post above.

No6

treviesweets wrote: »

TRIAI membership, is that actually recognised by the banks and the law society?

In a word no and it will never be pushed by the RIAI not untill hell freezes over in my very humble opinion.

treviesweets

No6 wrote: »

In a word no and it will never be pushed by the RIAI not untill hell freezes over in my very humble opinion.

God yeah not a hope, as far as I've heard they have no interest in ever recognising the term 'Technologist' either, it's just not in their interest to develop our profession.

So again why the big hoo ha about any Architectural Technology course being accredited by them?

pseudo-tech

treviesweets wrote: »

God yeah not a hope, as far as I've heard they have no interest in ever recognising the term 'Technologist' either, it's just not in their interest to develop our profession.

So again why the big hoo ha about any Architectural Technology course being accredited by them?

Because "thats the way things are done around here". It is good to question the status quo. Why have we accepted this? Why do we give certain individuals too much credibility? Why do we accept being used as pawns for financing academic courses? Keep questioning and repositioning the spotlight and we will create positive change.

ConfusedTech

treviesweets wrote: »

God yeah not a hope, as far as I've heard they have no interest in ever recognising the term 'Technologist' either, it's just not in their interest to develop our profession.

So again why the big hoo ha about any Architectural Technology course being accredited by them?

Well, whether we like it or not the RIAI have a big role in Architecture in Ireland, Certification, advising on legislation and to the government, and correct me if I am wrong, are they not the centre of the registration of the 'architect'. They would be a key organisation to give the thumbs up to the courses, and the reality is, if they dont, who else will? They are not there to represent us, but their say on acreditation and the likes is very strong at the moment. This will change in teh future, but until we have a sole representitive body in Ireland, we are a little snookered.

pseudo-tech

ConfusedTech wrote: »

Well, whether we like it or not the RIAI have a big role in Architecture in Ireland, Certification, advising on legislation and to the government, and correct me if I am wrong, are they not the centre of the registration of the 'architect'. They would be a key organisation to give the thumbs up to the courses, and the reality is, if they dont, who else will? They are not there to represent us, but their say on acreditation and the likes is very strong at the moment. This will change in teh future, but until we have a sole representitive body in Ireland, we are a little snookered.

Could the CIAT not provide this in the near future and the possibility of ATI at some stage in the distant future, when they are properly set up??? Why not? Their interests would be more aligned with Technicians. Should Technician representation not be accrediting technician courses??

It certain looks a little bit left of field what is currently going on!!

ConfusedTech

pseudo-tech wrote: »

Could the CIAT not provide this in the near future and the possibility of ATI at some stage in the distant future, when they are properly set up??? Why not? Their interests would be more aligned with Technicians. Should Technician representation not be accrediting technician courses??

It certain looks a little bit left of field what is currently going on!!

Agreed, we should be representing ourselves, but I personally dont feel that the CIAT, IIAT, IATGN or IBCI could accredit these courses in any way meaningful, YET. I do suggest that in the future this would be the ideal case, but at the moment we need an interim measure.

I wont get involved in the current scenario, as I do agree with you Pseudo. There is something odd and off the rails happening. Until it unfolds from the current bodies, I would only be speculating, but I do feel that something that should have been relatively easy 5 years ago, seems to have become highly political and complicated.

pseudo-tech

ConfusedTech wrote: »

Agreed, we should be representing ourselves, but I personally dont feel that the CIAT, IIAT, IATGN or IBCI could accredit these courses in any way meaningful, YET. I do suggest that in the future this would be the ideal case, but at the moment we need an interim measure.

I wont get involved in the current scenario, as I do agree with you Pseudo. There is something odd and off the rails happening. Until it unfolds from the current bodies, I would only be speculating, but I do feel that something that should have been relatively easy 5 years ago, seems to have become highly political and complicated.

I understand I get an uneasy feeling of being controlled and directed by people who don't have mine or other Technicians best interests at heart!!

muffler

pseudo-tech wrote: »

I understand I get an uneasy feeling of being controlled and directed by people who don't have mine or other Technicians best interests at heart!!

Who do you feel is controlling you or steering you in a particular direction? Surely you dont believe this?











and i wont call you surely again

pseudo-tech

muffler wrote: »

Who do you feel is controlling you or steering you in a particular direction? Surely you dont believe this?

and i wont call you surely again

There are a number of organisations/ individuals out there who purport to be looking after our interests but are not! However, it would be unfair and against boards rules to post who they are here!

muffler

pseudo-tech wrote: »

There are a number of organisations/ individuals out there who purport to be looking after our interests but are not! However, it would be unfair and against boards rules to post who they are here!

Yes its best not to name them. You are however straying away from the comment you made but surely no one or no group can make you do something that you dont want to do. I would have thought that you'd be strong enough to say no or turn your back.

topcatcbr

Just a point to note. All irish construction Hons degrees are accredited by CIOB.

pseudo-tech

muffler wrote: »

Yes its best not to name them. You are however straying away from the comment you made but surely no one or no group can make you do something that you dont want to do. I would have thought that you'd be strong enough to say no or turn your back.

Cheap response really! I have turned my back on certain organisations and certainly said no. I have mapped out my own course to professional recognition without hanging on to others coat tails, which is a favourite pastime of some people.

The problem here in Ireland is that two many people are in important positions without merit. Too many people progress because of parochial cronyism. However, I've paddled my own boat, can you say the same???

muffler

pseudo-tech wrote: »

Cheap response really!

im sorry you feel that way. You post something but you cant accept anyone offering a different viewpoint or simply commenting on the content of your post.

pseudo-tech wrote: »

I have turned my back on certain organisations and certainly said no. I have mapped out my own course to professional recognition without hanging on to others coat tails, which is a favourite pastime of some people.

Just let me remind you what you actually said which is this

pseudo-tech wrote: »

I understand I get an uneasy feeling of being controlled and directed by people who don't have mine or other Technicians best interests at heart!!

So in one post you are telling us that you feel you are being controlled and directed by someone or some group yet in you last post you tell us that you have said no,turned your back and are basically paddling your own canoe. It doesnt add up.

pseudo-tech wrote: »

The problem here in Ireland is that two many people are in important positions without merit. Too many people progress because of parochial cronyism.

I think we all know that. Its nothing.

pseudo-tech wrote: »

However, I've paddled my own boat, can you say the same???

I resent that accusation. You know absolutely nothing about me but yet you are prepared to make certain inferences. I had these paranoid accusations made before and Im damned if Im going to have them made again.

pseudo-tech

muffler wrote: »

Just let me remind you what you actually said which is thisSo in one post you are telling us that you feel you are being controlled and directed by someone or some group yet in you last post you tell us that you have said no,turned your back and are basically paddling your own canoe. It doesnt add up.

Just to clear up this point. I firmly believe that Technicians here in Ireland are being used as pawns by ITs and certain professional organisations (i'm sure you will understand my need not to name these groups specifically). Maybe for clarity I should have stated that Technicians in general are being controlled and directed, rather than myself. I can understand how my comment may have misdirected you. My fault entirely.

muffler wrote: »

im sorry you feel that way. You post something but you cant accept anyone offering a different viewpoint or simply commenting on the content of your post.

Ditto!

muffler wrote: »

I resent that accusation. You know absolutely nothing about me but yet you are prepared to make certain inferences. I had these paranoid accusations made before and Im damned if Im going to have them made again.

You questioned me and in return, I asked you the very same question. I can assure you I am not paranoid and if that comment is directed at me, I resent it!

smashey

Guys, keep to the topic here and quit the tit for tat posting or this thread will be locked.

pseudo-tech

Any news on ATI??

pseudo-tech

Yesterday was the third anniversary of the formation of ATI. I was wondering at this stage like the Green Party was there a need for a mid-term review. I haven't heard anything from them in a while. I was wondering was there any progress or is everything on the back boiler due to the current economic climate??

Mellor

pseudo-tech wrote: »

Yesterday was the third anniversary of the formation of ATI. I was wondering at this stage like the Green Party was there a need for a mid-term review. I haven't heard anything from them in a while. I was wondering was there any progress or is everything on the back boiler due to the current economic climate??

I imagien the current economic climate has severely hinder, and even totally stopped progress. Based on the origins of the ATI, the educational end funding has most likely been cut. As well as the fact that most of the support came from Kingspan, moy materials etc.

It's a situation Joesph Heller himself would be proud of. If we all paid a membership, they would have a resource to make progress, yet nobody will pay for memberdship until there is progress.


However, It is good news to see that the add-on degree has started, which originally spawn from the ATI previous incarnation.

sydthebeat

Mellor wrote: »

It's a situation Joesph Heller himself would be proud of. If we all paid a membership, they would have a resource to make progress, yet nobody will pay for memberdship until there is progress.
.

i wouldnt agree with this.

I remember at the IATGN meeting in the RDs that set up the ATI, there was many many members there who offered to pay some kind of membership.
The problem was that the ATI had no 'professional standards' generated at that point so they did not want to take money from persons who may not have the relevant qualification / experience to join the ATI when the time arose.

I do find it frustrating that its 3 years on and there is no communication with ATI members of any real progress, or even communication as to where there is obstacles. I understand that many of the committee members are under pressure in teh current climate, as we all are. After all, 50% of technicians will have lost their jobs by the end of the year compared to say Q4 2007.

The building control act and the registration of the title of architect has sped up a process in which the end game is ultimately the control of chartered bodies over certification and possibly even design / planning. Its up to architectural technicians to organise themselves in a relevant body to be commensurate to chartered bodies such as RIAI, ACEI etc. Whether that body is ATI, RIAI or CIAT is still to be seen, but personally, i see one clear body that seems interested in representing irish architectural technicians... and its not RIAI or ATI (sadly)

pseudo-tech

Thanks for that lads. However, I do believe that fees have not played any part in the current situation as it never formed part of the original strategy. It's important that we don't loose sight of where we want to be. There will be a pick up at some stage and we need to position ourselves NOW to take advantage of that!! If we don't all momentum will be lost. I also have to agree with SYD that there seems to be only one show in town. If that is the case, it would be great if it was confirmed so that Technicians would know where to direct there efforts. It would be good to hear from ATI at this stage to clarify the situation.

No6

They will not post on Boards about it lads so its a bit like flogging a dead horse posting about it here, I am sure that everybody involved in ATI is in much the same boat as the rest of us trying to survive, most of us know someone involved so we could just ask them!!

pseudo-tech

No6 wrote: »

They will not post on Boards about it lads so its a bit like flogging a dead horse posting about it here, I am sure that everybody involved in ATI is in much the same boat as the rest of us trying to survive, most of us know someone involved so we could just ask them!!

I agree with you that our entire community have suffered more than others during this downturn. However, I believe that it would be a positive move to inform everyone about the current situation. We need to communicate more now than ever and as mentioned above NOW is the time to push on to give others hope.

Mellor

sydthebeat wrote: »

i wouldnt agree with this.

I remember at the IATGN meeting in the RDs that set up the ATI, there was many many members there who offered to pay some kind of membership.
The problem was that the ATI had no 'professional standards' generated at that point so they did not want to take money from persons who may not have the relevant qualification / experience to join the ATI when the time arose.

how many of the same would still put forward cash now.
A lot less I imagine.

My points were in relation that its the wrong time to try and get off the ground, especially for a volunteer organisation

The building control act and the registration of the title of architect has sped up a process in which the end game is ultimately the control of chartered bodies over certification and possibly even design / planning. Its up to architectural technicians to organise themselves in a relevant body to be commensurate to chartered bodies such as RIAI, ACEI etc. Whether that body is ATI, RIAI or CIAT is still to be seen, but personally, i see one clear body that seems interested in representing irish architectural technicians... and its not RIAI or ATI (sadly)

I agree, especially regarding the three bodies and looking after their interest..
This is the reason why I still chose to have none of their lettes after my name.

pseudo-tech

Mellor wrote: »

My points were in relation that its the wrong time to try and get off the ground, especially for a volunteer organisation

I don't understand how the current environment can affect ATI. They never looked for finance from the beginning, therefore the lack of it now don't change the strategy. If anything, everyone in our profession have more time on their hands these days. It is important to try and promote our profession at this stage or we may be swallowed up by others who are competing with us for work.

Mellor wrote: »

I agree, especially regarding the three bodies and looking after their interest.. This is the reason why I still chose to have none of their lettes after my name.

As mentioned by Syd, there is certainly one of the 3 organisations who is promoting Architectural Technician's at this moment in time and should be supported.

Mellor

pseudo-tech wrote: »

I don't understand how the current environment can affect ATI. They never looked for finance from the beginning, therefore the lack of it now don't change the strategy. If anything, everyone in our profession have more time on their hands these days. It is important to try and promote our profession at this stage or we may be swallowed up by others who are competing with us for work.

There was funding from other areas that isn't (i imagine) available now

As mentioned by Syd, there is certainly one of the 3 organisations who is promoting Architectural Technician's at this moment in time and should be supported.

I never said CIAT weren't. I said they all should.
I should of said all of the letters (not none) ;
CIAT (who you refer to i imagine) do look after members, and I will most likely approach them at a point in the future. But there is a key requirement for the process that I can't cover at the minute.

pseudo-tech

Mellor wrote: »

There was funding from other areas that isn't (i imagine) available now

There was never any funding for the management of ATI. The sponsorship was to set up the web site.

Mellor wrote: »

I never said CIAT weren't. I said they all should.
I should of said all of the letters (not none) ;
CIAT (who you refer to i imagine) do look after members, and I will most likely approach them at a point in the future. But there is a key requirement for the process that I can't cover at the minute.

I would contact them about that if I were you. I had concerns and questions and found them to be very helpful!

Mellor

pseudo-tech wrote: »

There was never any funding for the management of ATI. The sponsorship was to set up the web site.

Actually, you are probably right about that one.

I would contact them about that if I were you. I had concerns and questions and found them to be very helpful!

Worth a shot, check this space

pseudo-tech

I see the IATGN website is down again. It don't look good!

topcatcbr

pseudo-tech wrote: »

I see the IATGN website is down again. It don't look good!

Just checked. Its up now. They should provide more comunication.