Photography Forum

kensutz

As suggested by moderators of forums other than the Photography Forum I've been asked to submit a seperate thread.

Please note:

• This is not a witch hunt
• I'm airing my views
• Anyone who wants to reply should do so in a completely unbiased view
• Stick to the facts and if found, please back up your claims

It has been noted that the moderation of the Photography Forum has gotten out of hand by some users. It is evident that there is a lot of unrest and decisions being taken with consultation taken with any of the other moderators.

As it stands there are 5 moderators of the forum which is plenty. I know all too well that 3 are regular posters and 2 of the others do a lot of work behind the scenes. I know there is a moderators forum and reported posts forum and discussions can take place there. However as I am no longer a moderator of a forum which I helped out on, I cannot access it anymore. BUT, with the times of the posts and the actions taken, it is quite clear that no discussions in the moderator team has taken place.

What I said in the previous thread is

After reading this complete bítch fest, I've been asking myself some questions.

1) What is the main focus of the Photography Forum?

2)Is it to have a laugh yet keep things in focus?

3)Is it to be completely sterile and professional?

4)Who is the person calling the shots and do any discussions take place before actions are taken? It seems Calina is calling all the shots and her disciples follow.

Over the past couple of years I've been a regular in the photography forum, I have to say that the past 6 months or less have made us walk on glass. I tried to inject some lighthearted voting and yet it got shot down straight away. Granted it's still taking place but with all the "rules" put in place I instantly lost interest in wanting to keep it going but granted I will.

I know Fajitas is up to his eyes and that's why he stepped down. The work he did was fair and sound. Elven the same, she did what was necessary and actually thanked people for helping out with reported posts etc.

I know some users have been thinking of keeping away from the forum because the regular enjoyment they had cannot be maintained. I think some of the SMods or HMods with a complete unbiased opinion have a look at the forum and see if they can spot any faults.

We're in it to enjoy it not to be censored so much that it's like we're living under a brainwashing regime. I ask for some common sense to be used and have a laid back attitude but yet keep people in line because I can see some meets if and when planned could also turn into a bítch fest.

The main point I would like to be addressed would be someone of SMod or admin status to take a look at the forum, also look at the Feedback, Reported Post Forum and also the Moderator Forum to see exactly what has been going on.

I'm pretty sure that we're all mature enough to know exactly where to draw the line. There are bound to be new users looking to participate in the forum but unaware that the sterility that currently exists will neutralise their enjoyment. I'm entirely aware that new users join daily and current users cause no problems to an extent but we're here to enjoy what we do daily,weekly etc.

Please do not ruin it for us. If Calina or AnCatDubh (who regularly call the shots) are willing to participate I suggest people throw out other suggestions in a more mature manner. Do not turn this into a moderator vs user debate.

Ricky91t

I think last year the forum used to be more amusing,nothing over the top but people could joke and others would just carry on with making valid posts,and that would be that.I very rarely remember many times where threads would have to be cleared out because alot of users posted off topic,Only in extreme circumstance were threads locked and they were down to a minute amount of users(2 or 3) that didn't know when to stop.

Now it seems like the smallest of things will get you in trouble,one time when people were having a joke the thread was locked all users who posted were warned if they continue with this behaviour would be infracted.Then again recently just a bit of fun(which is now non existant in the forum) suggesting who was "Arse of the year" and the mod basically suggested this should not posted as it will result in bans and what not,some things the mods have done are good,but other are just damn right stupid.

Dodgykeeper

Lets put this issue to bed right here and now, I believe this forum is being moderated incorrectly, but at the end of the day it is being moderated for the users and there views should be listened to.

What I suggest is a poll with a simple question:

Do you think this Forum is being moderated correctly?


If the outcome is Yes than I for one will concede that is is being moderated the way the most importants people on boards, the users, want it, if the outcome is no the I would expect some changes to be made.

Maybe I am over simplyfying things!

kgiller

Ive only been a "member" of the forum for about 6-8 months, so not sure what went on before that to give an opinion about it. i do however agree with some of the lads when they say that things are "over-moderated" in some instances. Of course there must be rules, or else we all have our heads wrecked by certain things, but the forum should also be enjoyable and not TOO serious.

Overall i think the mods do a great job, and its probably sometimes forgotten the work they put in. But, things can be a bit too serious at times.

melekalikimaka

Hummm I have been a poster on this forum, specifically Photography, for quite a long time, I was here before current...and even previous mods(Elven and Fajitas!) come onboard. Whilst I have noticed an increase in mod powers being 'exercised' I have also noticed alot more trouble on the forum, blatent off topicness, smartassness, poo stiring and whatnot, An Cath Dubh, is rather new so may be used to this and take it hand in hand, but Calina has been around longer and knows what this place 'can' be like, i know most your issues are with her, thats why I'm pushing the point with her, I believe she's clamping down a little harder cos she knows its not how this are on boards, especially here.

fair enough I've had my run ins and issues with the lass, but in fairness to her, she's modding grand and it's a core group that run in with her all the time... you know who you are .

Some may see the issue being

"I don't like the way the forum is being modded"

I'd think others may see the issue as

"I don't like the way people are posting"

my 2 cents

AnimalRights

I'd like a more flexible and light hearted Photography forum.
Where the Mods don't follow the rules to a T.
I'd also like not to see so many infractions handed out and also none of these numerous warnings for an alleged thread going off topic, unless it is going off by miles like.
Why can't the Mods remember that they were one of us b4 they became Mods? the minute they became Mods they go all wierd and Headteacherish.
Lets pretend there are no Mods unless someone really steps out of line and then maybe warn him in a PM like some Mods do here already.
Don't talk down to the users either.
If the Mods chill out then it makes it harder for the likes of me to misbehave. :P

Sully

Going back over reported posts and stuff isnt going to happen. Its a hell of a lot of work which shouldnt be inflected on anyone! Best thing to do is post up threads where you think moderators were heavy handed and state why. If the mod said why the thread was closed and you dont agree state why.

Best thing to do lads is fish out examples and compare similar threads with older threads which were okay.

Covey

A bit disturbing that such a post is shunted away from where the users are.

I agree that moderation should be, where possible, taken away from the forum , and dealt with as a PM. That's not always feasible, but postings that say, "the following named people are infracted etc are really unhelpful.

I think this may be related ( after more such incidenses) to this morning's post of last night's events. As, imo, a very good Mod ended that series of posts at 2am without negative comment or infractions etc said much more than what happened afterwards.

People do take the mick on here and should rightly be taken to task where they overstep the mark, but the vast majority are normal posters imo. I and others I know, have restricted any vaguely humerous comments in case of consequences. Lighten up a bit everyone.

A purely factual Forum is quite honestly a boring pain in the a*se.

Lets get back to where we were about a year ago, unless that is, moderators can document a vast increase in the number of complaints in the meantime.

T.

NB (expressing thanks on this post may have consequences )

Sully

Covey wrote: »

A bit disturbing that such a post is shunted away from where the users are.

Just going to address this point. This is standard Boards.ie rules. Feedback on any forum goes to this forum. Specific complaints about a moderator or a ban go to Help Desk.

Thats the way it works and has done for many years. Its a better system and opens it to neutral observes.

Hope that clarifies.

randylonghorn

Sully wrote: »

Just going to address this point. This is standard Boards.ie rules. Feedback on any forum goes to this forum.

Also, Covey, think about it ... the mods of the particular forum can respond on here, of course, but they are just users like everybody else in this forum, with no "mod powers" ... creates a level playing field for discussion, hopefully.

Covey

randylonghorn wrote: »

Also, Covey, think about it ... the mods of the particular forum can respond on here, of course, but they are just users like everybody else in this forum, with no "mod powers" ... creates a level playing field for discussion, hopefully.

Sure, but as it's shunted away from the area concerned there's limited knowledge it even exists (aside from Mods), thus ensuring a very unlevel playing pitch imo.

Thanks to Ricky for echoing it on the appropriate forum though and now we have that level playing pitch.

T.

Orion

Sully wrote: »

Best thing to do lads is fish out examples and compare similar threads with older threads which were okay.

Kinda hard to do when the posts have been deleted

melekalikimaka

Macros42 wrote: »

Kinda hard to do when the posts have been deleted

Post in there much???:rolleyes:

Orion

melekalikimaka wrote: »

Post in there much???:rolleyes:

Maybe once or twice - what's your point? :rolleyes:

I'm guessing the sarcasm will be missed so I'll explain ... actually no - I can't be arsed. I'll just say this is Feedback not Photography

Sully

If posts have been deleted, please state where and roughly the contents. An Smod has the power to look into them and the mods can easily quote them for you if you feel they should take part of the convo.

This isnt going to get us anywhere without giving examples. Back up your claims or stop complaining.

Sully

Covey wrote: »

Sure, but as it's shunted away from the area concerned there's limited knowledge it even exists (aside from Mods), thus ensuring a very unlevel playing pitch imo.

Thanks to Ricky for echoing it on the appropriate forum though and now we have that level playing pitch.

T.

I was going to suggest that a post/announcement be made. One thats balanced and just points people here if they would like to give Feedback.

Also, lets not make this a witch hunt. It would seem that a lot of people aren't happy, so lets see if we can try make it fair for the majority.

melekalikimaka

Macros42 wrote: »

Maybe once or twice - what's your point? :rolleyes:

I'm guessing the sarcasm will be missed so I'll explain ... actually no - I can't be arsed. I'll just say this is Feedback not Photography

Just wondering what benigit your post had other than antagonizing a already volutile thread

AnimalRights

Sully wrote: »

If posts have been deleted, please state where and roughly the contents. An Smod has the power to look into them and the mods can easily quote them for you if you feel they should take part of the convo.

This isnt going to get us anywhere without giving examples. Back up your claims or stop complaining.

Look you were or are not part of the Photography forum unless you were a regular there the last 8-12 months it is not as Black and White as you make out.
Don't know why you seem so keen to get interested, I asked you a simple question in PM and you couldn't handle it.
A S or C mod should handle it.

Sully

AnimalRights wrote: »

Look you were or not part of the Photography forum unless you were a regular there the last 8-12 months it is not as Black and White as you make out.

Exactly. I am neutral to this and have been contacted by a few Photography forum users asking what to do.

I want to make this as fair as possible for all concerned and the only way the forum users can fix the problem is if they give examples of problems. You cant say some things broken without saying exactly whats broken.

Don't know why you seem so keen to get interested, I asked you a simple question in PM and you couldn't handle it.

Fantastic. Are you going to contribute or just be a pain like you have been so far? Thought so.

Anyway, unless you have something decent to add ill carry on ignoring you in the hope an Smod gets rid of your un related posts.

Orion

melekalikimaka wrote: »

Just wondering what benigit your post had other than antagonizing a already volutile thread

Well I was making a valid point in a light-hearted way. Non-mods can't link to deleted threads/posts.

Your post was a hell of a lot more antagonistic in tone than my one was up to and including the rolleyes smiley. Anyhoo - this is OT. If you've anything else to say to me about this please PM it and I'll reply tomorrow (I'm off to bed now).

melekalikimaka

Apologes my point is retracted,back ot

AnimalRights

Sully wrote: »

Exactly. I am neutral to this and have been contacted by a few Photography forum users asking what to do.

I want to make this as fair as possible for all concerned and the only way the forum users can fix the problem is if they give examples of problems. You cant say some things broken without saying exactly whats broken.



Fantastic. Are you going to contribute or just be a pain like you have been so far? Thought so.

Anyway, unless you have something decent to add ill carry on ignoring you in the hope an Smod gets rid of your un related posts.

Arrogance city. :rolleyes:

Doubt you'll be asked to get involved anyway.

Covey

Sully wrote: »

This isnt going to get us anywhere without giving examples. Back up your claims or stop complaining.

Lets not take this rather simplistic approach. There is a view expressed, and although posted after midnight has some not insignificant support, so lets discuss it.

Tomorrow, may be a better time,when Mods care to join in, but lets not roll out the reams of text but rather admit some people are unhappy, discuss that, and see is that a minority or what and how to approach it.

It would be a shame to lose a lot of good contributors to the forum over this.

Sully

Covey wrote: »

Lets not take this rather simplistic approach. There is a view expressed, and although posted after midnight has some not insignificant support, so lets discuss it.

Tomorrow, may be a better time,when Mods care to join in, but lets not roll out the reams of text but rather admit some people are unhappy, discuss that, and see is that a minority or what and how to approach it.

It would be a shame to lose a lot of good contributors to the forum over this.

Agreed but how can we fix without saying what the problem is?

Hopefully it can be sorted anyway

melekalikimaka

AnimalRights wrote: »

Arrogance city. :rolleyes:

Doubt you'll be asked to get involved anyway.

Good lord, someones cruisin for a smod spankin

I'm a bit late to the party on this I see...well,there's no lying, the place has become a lot stricter over the past few months.Most of the issues that have been dealt with by the mods were necessary while some were not.The arse of the year thing was a bit ott tbh as were several of the infractions in the wedding thread.However like meleka.... said, the mods have had plenty of problems,there has been a lot of unnecessary biatching going on which the mods have had to put a stop to.The problem is that this is being done in the wrong way(imo).

Like has been said before,the reason many users talk about the glory days of Elven and Fajitas was because there was a certain understanding there.You could treat either like a user yet when it came to modding you still respected their decision.They were able to get along with the community(even with the dreaded title of mod) and this stood to them when they had to do the dirty work.

This is what I think the current mods should adapt to do.The current revolt is because of the strictness of the modding (which I have to agree with in some cases) but there is definitely blame on both sides.And both sides need to step up and take responsibility.The mods need to be a little less rash and discuss the issue with the user before giving a ban or infraction.And in turn the users need to respect the mods and their decisions.I had a quick glance over the mentioned thread and I don't feel it should come to the stage that we're asking mods to step down for doing their jobs(albeit a little strictly.) I feel the current set of mods just need to relax a bit and if there is a problem learn to talk to the individual and sort it out maturely.

What we need to do is start with a clean slate.At the moment we are in a vicious circle.Mod bans someone,that person complains vociferously,said person comes back to forum in an unruly manner,modding becomes stricter,someone else gets banned and on and on and on...

We need to let go of any grudges we have and create a truce,the mods need to acknowledge that they have been a bit heavy handed at times and agree to communicate before banning.And the users need to agree to respect the mods and their decisions.

Perhaps this is a bit of an idealistic view but from what I can see this is the main root of the problem

John

I'm mainly a lurker and occasional poster on the photography forum. I don't read every thread but while I must admit Calina is not as light-handed as other mods but I certainly do not think she is a bad mod or should step down. There is no ideal level of strictness for a mod. Calina is as valid a mod as any of the others in the photography forum or indeed on boards. If she is stricter than what your used to, then that's it. She handled that thread correctly IMHO.

I think most of the "problems" on the photography forum (quotes because personally I think the forum is running fine) are more due to a personality clash between a group of users and Calina. If Calina was indeed being detrimental to the forum, ganging up on her and taking snipes at her in feedback is certainly not the way to address the situation. Kensutz has done the right thing by framing the issues properly and hopefully other users of the photography forum will add their 2c.

kensutz wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that we're all mature enough to know exactly where to draw the line. There are bound to be new users looking to participate in the forum but unaware that the sterility that currently exists will neutralise their enjoyment. I'm entirely aware that new users join daily and current users cause no problems to an extent but we're here to enjoy what we do daily,weekly etc.

Just to add some balance to the argument, I certainly enjoy the forum a lot. I do not think Calina has stifled the forum, she is certainly one of the more enthusiastic posters and is doing a lot for the community in terms of the exhibition.

1) What is the main focus of the Photography Forum?

2)Is it to have a laugh yet keep things in focus?

3)Is it to be completely sterile and professional?

I'd hardly call the place sterile. Speaking as a novice, I think it's important to keep the advice threads clear of drivel but there's certainly enough banter and humaneness around the forum to keep it away from being a barren interactive manual.

4)Who is the person calling the shots and do any discussions take place before actions are taken? It seems Calina is calling all the shots and her disciples follow.

Mods generally don't consult before acting. Whoever's online and spots the problem first deals with it. On the fora I've moderated, I've never consulted nor been consulted when dealing with straightforward issues. If it appears there is a big issue then there may be a discussion but usually there is one mod who does most of the work.

Thirdfox

As someone who posts on the drier side of things (purely photographic 95% of the time) I don't see much (any) moderation that is objectionable.

I may disagree with AR when he says that rules shouldn't be followed to a T (but maybe that's just my legal background crying out ). They should. But what shouldn't happen is that the rules are so constricting that no fun is to be had.

So don't disobey the law...lobby the powers that be to change them if you find them unjust

AnCatDubh

Sully wrote: »

the mods can easily quote them for you if you feel they should take part of the convo.

No problem at all - if people would rather not bother the SMods with it, then anyone who needs a post back from any thread for the purposes of discussion here just pm me - happy to oblige with posting them here.

Nevyn

Moderation should not be secret and by pm.
It should be open, transparent and trackible.
That is why we have the infraction and banning system we do.
Mods are ment to use that rather then get into interpersonal skuffles with posters in private.

Different mods on the same forum maybe all working of the same charter and have different styles.
Seems to me that there are a few rather newish posters to the site
who are chaffing at how things are done
and have singled out a mod who for what ever reason rubs them up the wrong way,
if they are reacting in that manner to that mod when they post then that is thier problem esp
when the mod is working well with in the guidelines for the site and the charter of the forum for the good of the forum.

If any idiot glosses over a warning by a mod and gets banned then they were banned for being an idiot not cos the mod is a nazi.

Gods the sooner the spring flowers start coming out and the weather gets better
and you lot can get outside and start taking photos of snowdrops instead of potshots at people on line the better.

Dragan

Dodgykeeper wrote: »

Lets put this issue to bed right here and now, I believe this forum is being moderated incorrectly, but at the end of the day it is being moderated for the users and there views should be listened to.

What I suggest is a poll with a simple question:

Do you think this Forum is being moderated correctly?


If the outcome is Yes than I for one will concede that is is being moderated the way the most importants people on boards, the users, want it, if the outcome is no the I would expect some changes to be made.

Maybe I am over simplyfying things!

Hardly surprising, but with all due respect you went to Feedback or the Helpdesk at least twice when i was a Mod and your complaints got no where each time.

I think people need to honestly look at how THEY act in the forum, some of the people shouting loudest for reform are the same people who cause the most trouble and will do nothing to fit better into the community.

When i was modding Photography there were vague threats ( oh how i laughed when i read that ) and obvious insults to be dealt with.

As a poster i don't see those people's attitudes having changed at all.

Why is always blame the watchman and never the watched?

No matter what way you want to slice it Photography is a diverse subject, with lots of opinions and people will grant different levels of importance to different issues, so maybe the same amount of respect in every thread and to all users wouldn't hurt.

Because right now, two posters at least are getting away with publically making fun of a Mod, which is fairly pathethic, school yard bull****.