Photography Forum

Cabaal

Calina, I would imagine your post was a hard one to write but at the end of the day you need to do whats right for you.

Its a shame the reset idea could not have been tried to allow users and mods to begin again but I'm sure I won't be alone when I say that there is a fair amount of work involved in modding and especially on a busy forum and you don't need to keep listening to grief.

At the end of the day do whats right for yourself though, be 100% sure this is what you want to do.

If you still choose to step down then this still does not excuse some users and allow them to continue in a manner that would offend or abuse other users, any such users need to cop on going forward or they will be banned and they would rightly deserve it.

Cabaal,

Dudess

Calina wrote: »

I want to step down as mod of the Photography Forum.

Please don't, Calina. That would be an awful shame. There is a handful of aggressive moderators who should tone it the **** down in terms of manner (even if I agree with their decisions) but you're not one of those, you're simply adhering to the charter, so you have NOTHING to be ashamed of.
What's happening here is all this criticism and snide digging is making you doubt yourself rather than any actual bad moderating by you (as you say yourself, you don't think you've done a bad job). Don't give your detractors the satisfaction.

I was going to step down from After Hours early on but someone convinced me not to, and I'm glad I stayed on. Then I finally did step down a good few months later but it wasn't because of feeling persecuted at all, it was simply because I felt I got too involved in debates for a moderator (although the crap I was getting from certain individuals at the time didn't help :mad:).

My first-time intention of stepping down was heat-of-the-moment, my second-time intention, which was ultimately executed, was well thought out. Which category would you put yours in now?

What about another mod being drafted on board to give you some help?

Covey wrote: »

Reads PC not CP

LOL

Paulw

Covey wrote: »

My reason for contributing here was in the hope for change as I'm seriously considering abandoning the forum. I've never received a warning, infraction or ban, but the forum has become very formal and unfriendly of late.

As one of the more active fora on boards, with a real sense of community, I feel thats a shame. Where else would get people prepared to loan strangers (well almost) expensive pieces of gear? I don't agree that it's become elítist, in fact the opposite, as those more advanced are always willing to help newcomers. This was amptly demonstrated with our "Book" and "Exhibition" which have been all inclusive of all levels. and thats how it should be.

A few have, rightly, expressed outrage at some posters attitudes. Have they complained? Maybe if we want the forum as it was then we, as users, need to take more positive action to ensure that.

The mods also need to look at themselves though and I appreciate it's a tough job. Especially the use of language is very important. Harsh dogmatic rhetoric will often illicit a negative response.

I'm also of the "Cabansail" school of thought that a short PM with a warning is a very effective way of calming things down before they get out of hand.

I have to agree with these thoughts.

Photography is a community of great people. I've loaned and borrowed equipment from people and have learned a lot from them. There is a great mix of people who post, from full-time photographers, to keen hobby photographers, to total beginners. I've never felt there was elitism there, especially compared to other photography discussion sites across the world. I think I post to about 5 other photography sites, and by far, boards is the most open and friendly and helpful. Long may that continue.

There has always been, and will always be, one or two users who rub some up the wrong way. That's life. In general, they deserve to get a slap on the wrists from time to time. But, they are seldom malicious. It's just their nature.

I think people want a place they can share their experiences and learn. They want a fun, friendly place too. Those don't have to be mutually exclusive.

The place has lost some of it's fun and that needs to change. I don't think there is a few people trying to spoil it for everyone. I do think that there are some posts here from people who don't regularly read photography section that don't seem to see what regular posters see.

Maybe there is no easy fix, but, we're all there for one reason - photography.

shepthedog

In essence PaulW has summed up my thoughts on the forum and this issue.
A forum like photography should operate as a commuinty and need very little moderation, as in theory should self regulate.. Fajitas! more hands off style of modding worked perfectly for the forum so lets hope the trend moves back in that direction.
It looks like this issue might just clear the air and let the forum get back on track...

melekalikimaka

Calina wrote: »

I am getting an overwhelming sense of a few people wanting to dictate moderation to suit their own agendas despite a wide, wide support from the rest of the community for what I do.

I would tend to agree, photography forum is a unique forum, you need a extensive knowledge to be able to properly mod the forum, but also need to be objective and unbias, which to be honest I believe that was how you were doing things... its such a broad subject and ot banter is par and parcel...but it detracts from thread points... tis a fine line... everyone...EVERYONE who posted here from the forum regulars all input greatly for the benifit... but there is a element of bullying going on... which to be honest I'm gonna either go down the ignore user route or possibly zone out of the forum a bit... I've an awful bad taste in my mouth after all this....

Calina

Calina wrote: »

I want to step down as mod of the Photography Forum. I don't think I've done a bad job per se, but really no one should have to tolerate the nonsense that I've had constantly since I started modding the forum a few months ago from a small number of users. I'm never going to get yesterday evening back, and even reading through this, I am getting an overwhelming sense of a few people wanting to dictate moderation to suit their own agendas despite a wide, wide support from the rest of the community for what I do.

With the best will in the world, I have a life too and I have to balance a lot of different things against each other, and right now, I feel that moderating photography on boards.ie is far, far more trouble than it's worth. I want to make it clear that this is not just the one-off event of last night's traincrash, it's an evaluation of what I have had to put up with for the past few months and the feeling that it's just not worth the time and effort that I make.

I'd like you to take some time and reconsider this.Only a couple of people with a major grudge against you have asked you to step down.I feel giving into these people would be a massive mistake.From this thread I'm sure you can see you have the majority of the forum behind you.Most people think you are doing your job well,some think you are doing your job but just a bit harshly and a very small minority 3 or 4 people have asked you to step down.There are at least over 100 regulars on the photography forum and only 3 or 4 have a major problem with your modding and are causing you trouble.Personally I think an agreement can be made between all of you.It doesn't have to come to the stage where you feel you need to step down.It's still possible to air all the grievances and sort this out.Please give it a bit more thought but in the end as Cabaal says do what's right for you.It would be a massive shame to see you go just because of a very small minority.

Dodgykeeper

I also believe that Calina should reconsider this decision, whilst I dont believe that she had taken her decision lightly maybe it would be better if she took a step back for a few hours and take stock of the situation.

Sully

Good to see this thread was actually useful and didnt turn into a trainwreck, despite some peoples attempts. Ken will be proud

Overall, it would seem that the majority are happy with the forum. Not as bad as others were making out but thats just based on the responses here. There are groups of users unhappy in terms of how its being moderated and would prefer the mods relaxed the rules just a tad to allow for banter rather then a strictly ruled forum with no room for banter, small off topic comments and randomness. This is probably something everybody agrees on.

There are also a minor group of users who seem to be causing problems and even the regularls seem to point it out. I think its time that these people were sorted out with long term solutions rather then treating them with short term solutions. There is/was an element of bullying going on and it has to stop. Iv only seen one user acknowledge his mistakes and agree to cop on while others are hellbent on trolling even in this thread alone. Its these people which ruin the community and spoil the forum. The mods have to tighten things if this is how the forum is turning into and you cant blame them.

So, whats needed here is an agreement on both sides. The mods will agree to relax a little. The users who are causing problems at present need to cop the **** on and agree to act like adults and stay within the rules. If we can all agree to this and shake on it I think its time we hit the reset button and tried to carry on the way things should be.

Are there any issues within the charter which are new that people are unhappy with? Anything in particular which stands out that mods are doing thats upsetting the users? Or is it just that people would prefer it was relax a little and the troublesome users were addressed properly?

As for stepping down, I dont think its a wise decission. It would seem to be giving into the troublesome users and running away from the problem. I think its time to simply adjust and move forward without walking away.

Dragan

So it seems we have a couple of groups.

1) A group of users who feel put out and picked on.
2) A group of users who feel the actions of another group of users are distasteful.
3) The Mods who feel a bit put out and picked on.
4) The newer Mods who haven't had time to adjust yet one way or the other.

And our plan, as it lies at the moment, is to "reboot" the forum?

With all due respect to anyone, nothing will change. It never does where certain users are concerned.

At the very least, if the application of rules is to be lessened, then the result of them being applied should be increased.

All i see now is a problem user getting a "get out of jail" free card to be honest.

melekalikimaka

update charter and whip out the banstick and get spankin!!!!

Cabaal

Dragan wrote: »

So it seems we have a couple of groups.

1) A group of users who feel put out and picked on.
2) A group of users who feel the actions of another group of users are distasteful.
3) The Mods who feel a bit put out and picked on.
4) The newer Mods who haven't had time to adjust yet one way or the other.

And our plan, as it lies at the moment, is to "reboot" the forum?

With all due respect to anyone, nothing will change. It never does where certain users are concerned.

At the very least, if the application of rules is to be lessened, then the result of them being applied should be increased.

All i see now is a problem user getting a "get out of jail" free card to be honest.

Well the plan is to reboot the forum once a few other issues are sorted first, once these issues are sorted the users involved make a commitment to cop the feck on, after these get "rebooted" then banstick is used if people step too far out of hand.

While not ideal I'm curious what you can suggest instead, baring in mind neither side is going to accept full blame for the issues to date as it'll turn into a endless tit-for-tat if you try.

Paulw

Sully wrote: »

So, whats needed here is an agreement on both sides. The mods will agree to relax a little. The users who are causing problems at present need to cop the **** on and agree to act like adults and stay within the rules. If we can all agree to this and shake on it I think its time we hit the reset button and tried to carry on the way things should be.

Are there any issues within the charter which are new that people are unhappy with? Anything in particular which stands out that mods are doing thats upsetting the users? Or is it just that people would prefer it was relax a little and the troublesome users were addressed properly?

I think, from talking to people (in person), from reading this thread, and from personal experience, that it is only Calina, as mod, that needs to relax a little (from the mod side).

Yes, some users, maybe even myself from time to time, need to follow the rules better. But, by and large, the vast majority of posts/posters stay within the rules and post useful responses/topics.

In fairness, I think the charter seems fine. I don't think the majority of infractions are for anything other than either personal differences or slagging/banter, which, in many cases, takes the thread off topic.

I certainly don't think there is a bad element/group in the photography section trying to cause problems, or victimise anyone. From my view, some people just need a little slap from time to time, because, most of the time they actually contribute well to discussions.

We all need to get along - we need to act like adults and also be treated like adults.

Just my view.

trishw78

what plan to reboot? I thought it was decided it was a bad idea.

I thought 'cleaning of the slates' was the way forward. ie all users agree to cope on, re-read the charter. etc.

tbh

trishw78 wrote: »

what plan to reboot? I thought it was decided it was a bad idea.

I thought 'cleaning of the slates' was the way forward. ie all users agree to cope on, re-read the charter. etc.

reboot/slate cleaning, potato, pohtahtoe

Sully

Paulw wrote: »

I think, from talking to people (in person), from reading this thread, and from personal experience, that it is only Calina, as mod, that needs to relax a little (from the mod side).

Yes, some users, maybe even myself from time to time, need to follow the rules better. But, by and large, the vast majority of posts/posters stay within the rules and post useful responses/topics.

In fairness, I think the charter seems fine. I don't think the majority of infractions are for anything other than either personal differences or slagging/banter, which, in many cases, takes the thread off topic.

I certainly don't think there is a bad element/group in the photography section trying to cause problems, or victimise anyone. From my view, some people just need a little slap from time to time, because, most of the time they actually contribute well to discussions.

We all need to get along - we need to act like adults and also be treated like adults.

Just my view.

Well regardless, if one mod does it the rest need to agree to the same policy. So, that's what I am trying to suggest. We see a problem, lets address it. If that's it, then its time we restarted. But it must be it and we cant have anything hiding in the closet to jump out at a later stage. Trolls and adults currently acting like kids, even in this thread, need to agree to grow up and act like adults.

trishw78 wrote: »

what plan to reboot? I thought it was decided it was a bad idea.

I thought 'cleaning of the slates' was the way forward. ie all users agree to cope on, re-read the charter. etc.

Same thing really!

Cabaal

trishw78 wrote: »

what plan to reboot? I thought it was decided it was a bad idea.

I thought 'cleaning of the slates' was the way forward. ie all users agree to cope on, re-read the charter. etc.

"reboot" effectively same thing, users commit to cop on things start over, mods also agree not to drag up previous history

Fajitas!

melekalikimaka wrote: »

update charter and whip out the banstick and get spankin!!!!

Not sure if you're taking the mick here Mele, but tbh, that's the worst thing one could do after this.

seamus

I think it's unfortunate Calina that you've decided to step down, but understandable consider the attitudes you've had to deal with.

It's very clear that there is a small group of posters (less than the number of fingers on my two hands) who have a resistance to moderation in most forms and like nothing better than to harp on about being oppressed and shouted down by moderators.

Their actions in the other thread (primarily) have already weakened their position and serves to undermine any grievances raised by them in the past and in future.

A "slate cleaning" I think will serve Photography best, as if these posters continue to have issues, then it will just show them up for being nothing but malcontents with no actual interest in what's best for the Photography forum and the community that's developed there.

rymus

Fajitas! wrote: »

Not sure if you're taking the mick here Mele, but tbh, that's the worst thing one could do after this.

Jeez.. take all the fun out of being a mod why don't ya? :P

rahtkennades

seamus wrote: »

I think it's unfortunate Calina that you've decided to step down, but understandable consider the attitudes you've had to deal with.

It's very clear that there is a small group of posters (less than the number of fingers on my two hands) who have a resistance to moderation in most forms and like nothing better than to harp on about being oppressed and shouted down by moderators.

Their actions in the other thread (primarily) have already weakened their position and serves to undermine any grievances raised by them in the past and in future.

A "slate cleaning" I think will serve Photography best, as if these posters continue to have issues, then it will just show them up for being nothing but malcontents with no actual interest in what's best for the Photography forum and the community that's developed there.

With respect, and this is obviously just my opinion, but I don't think that there will be anything gained from that other than to "teach the lesson" that having a go at somebody you don't like works.

I've not followed every post that has been moderated by Calina (I know there was some 'trouble' yesterday), but at the end of that all, there seems to have been this thread created to look for feedback on how the photog forum is being run. Lots of people have had their say, a couple or three of people have disagreed with the tone of moderation, others have agreed that it's overall fairly even, and at the end of it all, those people who have by general agreement been 'stirring' it get to carry on after agreeing to be more constructive.

Seems the only loser in this is the mod that decides to resign after being abused for doing their job.

I wouldn't mod for any amount of money. I admire anybody who agrees to do it. If you disagree with somebody's style or their decisions, speak to them about it in a constructive manner. If you get nowhere, take it up with somebody who can deal with it.

But as I say, if the outcome of this discussion is "Okay, back to your toys, but play nice now", while one person feels they have to leave, then that's pretty bad form.

seamus

rahtkennades wrote: »

With respect, and this is obviously just my opinion, but I don't think that there will be anything gained from that other than to "teach the lesson" that having a go at somebody you don't like works.

Well, I'm in complete agreement. I would think it best if perhaps Calina just took a couple of weeks to reconsider, but that's totally up to her. If she's just had enough, then there's very little we can do to change her mind.

Beruthiel

seamus wrote: »

If she's just had enough, then there's very little we can do to change her mind.

Which is a shame, because by all accounts, she was doing a great job.

Covey

Personally, I didn't see any abuse of Calina on this thread nor indeed anyone looking for her head. If she received abuse on the forum, that should have been dealt with there, as I posted earlier.

This thread was to air views in a civilised manner and barring the usual few, most have done that. Unfortunately, Calina has chosen to not contribute (very minor posting excepted ) until she posted her decision to resign.

I regret that she has chosen not to contribute to the discussion and to resign. It was a platform for everyone to contribute, without malice, including Calina. Maybe an opportunity missed !

Regarding a couple of people having forced something or other, I don't see that at all. I doubt some of them will last a week more on the forum, as they are plainly beyond change.

T.

AnimalRights

Beruthiel wrote: »

Which is a shame, because by all accounts, she was doing a great job.

Thats why we have all these threads and even the ex mod or two not happy. :rolleyes:
take off your Mod hat like for half a day and read the threads or better still wade through the photography threads from the last 6 months!!

challengemaster

Perhaps now atleast there can be light hearted banter again on the forum without infractions or bans for it. The photography forum smiles again, as it were. Now, back to actually discussing photography for the lot of us?

Beruthiel

AnimalRights wrote: »

Thats why we have all these threads and even the ex mod or two not happy. :rolleyes:
take off your Mod hat like for half a day and read the threads or better still wade through the photography threads from the last 6 months!!

AR, you're on thin ice.
Apart from a bunch of snippy comments, I have seen no positive feedback from you whatsoever.

Covey

challengemaster wrote: »

Now, back to actually discussing photography for the lot of us?

Not until after the leaving for you though boyo

Dudess

AnimalRights wrote: »

take off your Mod hat like for half a day and read the threads or better still wade through the photography threads from the last 6 months!!

How about you put on a pair of mod shoes and look at it from their perspective?
You do realise very few are sharing your attitude on this thread?

AnimalRights

Beruthiel wrote: »

AR, you're on thin ice.
Apart from a bunch of snippy comments, I have seen no positive feedback from you whatsoever.

Because we have disagreed all the way through?
To me that is a threat more than anything else...
The point of Feedback is so we can all get things off our chests in an orderly manner, you have being rude to me from your very 1st post.

AnimalRights

Dudess wrote: »

How about you put on a pair of mod shoes and look at it from their perspective?
You do realise very few are sharing your attitude on this thread?

A) I have, which is why I have replied with TWICE we should all start again and I've also evidence of me sending pms to 2 of the 3 mods a week or so again saying I am prepared to make a good effort....I am in the photography forum for one reason...Photography.

I would dispute that, Have we really to do a Florida style countback??

I wish there was a C but all I've noticed since this Photography problem has being moved to Feedback is countless Mods from OTHER forums slagging off the people who actually disagreed with the modern photography set up.