Eli Manning?

eagle eye

I was watching the game yesterday and how this team won a superbowl last year.

They came out of the blocks faster than Ben Johnson in his best steroid moments this year but even last year there were question marks during the sesaon about Eli.

He has his ring now but I personally think he mixes the bad with the very good too often. He had one of those horrific games yesterday and when he is off he is really off.

Just wondering what the rest of you think.

Personally I have never rated him as a top quarterback, but a dangerous one nonetheless, but he has never convinced me even now after winning a superbowl and all.

Dodge

Rightly voted onto pro bowl this year. Eli's a fine quarterback. Absolutely hammered in comparison to his brother (and maybe even his father) but he's still far better than most QBs in the NFL. He can have off days but pretty much everyone does. it doesn't help that he plays in the media spotlight of the NFC east where every move is analysed to death.

eagle eye

Dodge wrote: »

Rightly voted onto pro bowl this year. Eli's a fine quarterback. Absolutely hammered in comparison to his brother (and maybe even his father) but he's still far better than most QBs in the NFL. He can have off days but pretty much everyone does. it doesn't help that he plays in the media spotlight of the NFC east where every move is analysed to death.

Well that comparing him to his brother is silly. Peyton is one of the all time great QBs of the game.

Dodge

eagle eye wrote: »

Well that comparing him to his brother is silly. Peyton is one of the all time great QBs of the game.

That was my point. Its not far but it absolutely happens (unfortunately for Eli)

FlutterinBantam

had a mare last night,but delivered when it mattered last season.

he will bounce back.

death1234567

He had a bad game last night, they really missed PlaxiGun. He's better than most QB's in the NFL but he's not top class. When he has a bad game its usually a stinker.

Hynzie

death1234567 wrote: »

He had a bad game last night, they really missed PlaxiGun.

Thats where it the problem was really. with no plax he had marginal weapons to throw to. Toomer has been great for the giants but hes not a big play guy anymore. Hixon has talent but hes raw and not a true number one reciever. I like steve smith but again hes not a big play guy. And as for moss and manningham, they need to learn the damn playbook before they can catch passes. Fact of the matter is the g mens season went up in smoke with plaxico.

Im happy with eli's progress. As has been already pointed out hes under crazy pressure with his father and brother as well as the media and fans in New York. I was at the season opener v the redskins and guys in front of me were scream for Eli to be traded after he threw an incompletion on the fist drive!!

Hes been far better this year at cutting down on the interceptions which were his main problem. i posted this in another thread but it seems fitting to post it here too. these are elis int numbers season by season:

2004 - 9 ints
2005 - 17 ints
2006 - 18 ints
2007 - 20 ints
2008 - 10 ints

i dont know what happened in the playoffs last year but he finally started to get it and hes continued it this year for the most part.

RichTea

Very good Quarterback. He beat the doubters last season but those who still don't believe in Eli will enver be fully convinced I feel.

Royal Seahawk

If you can't believe in a quarterback who sets up a 70-80 yard game winning touchdown drive against an unbeaten team with 2:15 left on the clock in a superbowl then who can you believe in? He's still only 28 too remember.

eagle eye

Royal Seahawk wrote: »

If you can't believe in a quarterback who sets up a 70-80 yard game winning touchdown drive against an unbeaten team with 2:15 left on the clock in a superbowl then who can you believe in? He's still only 28 too remember.

You can't go by one drive to summarize a player.

Imo he is well down the list of QBs currently playing in the NFL.

Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger and Brett Favre have been head and shoulders above the rest over the last couple of years.

After that you have a group of decent QBs like Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers, Jay Cutler, Donovan McNabb and some others after that.

Then you have Eli Manning and Tony Romo, who at times look like they should be in the first group and other times look like the worst in the League.

Another example of this type of QB is Drew Bledsoe, he looked superb at times but just when you were starting to really like him, he would let you down again.
I just think with Eli and Romo you just don't know what you are gonna get on any given Matchday. (I'm careful not to use the film title:))

Royal Seahawk

eagle eye wrote: »

You can't go by one drive to summarize a player.

Maybe not but surely it gives you some basis to have belief in him. The one major gripe i have with American Football and American sports in general is their fascination with stats. In my opinion the only stat that should matter is how many championships you won(call me narrow-minded, thats just the way i view sports in general, isn't that why they play them, to win things?) and Eli Manning played a massive role in the Giants success last year with some real clutch performances when they mattered, ie: playoffs and superbowl. Thats how i judge players, especially quarterbacks, and thats why my favourites will always be the Montana's, the Aikman's and the Brady's, not the Favre's or the P Manning's or the Marino's who can have all the records and League Mvps they want. Yes,i'm aware that P Manning and Favre have won a SuperBowl but i do sincerley believe that,as a whole, their playoff careers have been a bit of a disappointment, especially in comparison to other,supposedly inferior, quarterbacks. E Manning is still young,and has already shown that he has the bottle for the big time, with potentially another ten years left in his career.

Pyjamarama

eagle eye wrote: »

Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger and Brett Favre have been head and shoulders above the rest over the last couple of years.

You really rate Favre and Big Ben ahead of Brees, Rivers and McNabb...?!?! Crazy!

Favre basically got his coach fired and the players on his own team were hoping he'd be benched since he played awful down the stretch.

Big Ben is a solid guy but he is insanely streaky. Most Steelers fans will tell you how frustrating he has been. He won a superbowl by not losing games and leaning on the run game and the awesome D. His best game ever may have been last night but he is not elite.

Neither is Eli mind so I agree with you on that. Eli hasn't the spark to be elite imo. He makes dodgy decisions and sometimes just puts the ball up for grabs which is fine when you have Plaxico but without him it leads to a lot of INT.

davyjose

I personally think Eli is a very good QB. Certainly a big part of the Giants recent success. I don't think he'll win any more rings, but he'll be in that elite group of QB's that will stay employed (as starters) well into their 30's
As much as I hate to say it though, I think Rivers could be the next great QB in the NFL. Some of the throws he's made this season have been ridiculously impressive. He's got bottle too. Easily the best thing about the Charger's this season.

delanec8

Eli has had a good, not a great season. Bar this year and last season's playoffs, he has been disappointing. The superbowl win clearly did a lot for him. He has looked far more composed and in control this season than previous seasons.

Farve has had one good season in the last 4, so i dont think he belongs with brady and manning over that span. Roethlisberger has been pretty good but is not close to brady or manning, and i would take rivers and brees ahead of him too.

And i think its pretty silly to put a massive emphasis on super bowl rings when judging QBs. Its the equivalent of saying brian mcclair was a better striker than alan shearer, or trent dilfer and brad johnson were better than dan marino.

SantryRed

I think the problem with Eli is when he has a bad game it's the turnovers he creates in them games.

eagle eye

Pyjamarama wrote: »

You really rate Favre and Big Ben ahead of Brees, Rivers and McNabb...?!?! Crazy!

You are talking about one seaon there. Let me clear things up a little bit more.

You have Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. Out on their won. Already two of the great QBs to have played the game.

You have Brett Favre, again one of the great QBs to play the game. I put Big Ben in with this man. They are both what you could call Gunslingers, they will fight all day and they have a knack of pulling out the win when all looks lost. Thats what makes them great. The keep the ball alive more than most other QBs with pump fakes and great movement around the pocket and out of the pocket. And then they do them other things like what you seen from Big Ben last night when he threw a block on an outside run play to make sure his man got the first down. Of course when things go wrong for both these players they look foolish taking sacks for bigger losses than most but overall they are winners to me.

The other guys are below that at this time imo. Brees for me was the best of them all this season. Rivers had a phenomenal year also, but thats stats and when you look at how their teams did over the campaign you see that neither done that well. I would have had McNabb in there with Eli and Romo with the way he was going this season and late last season, but from the time he was benched he has been a different man and a lot more impressive as a result. Chad Pennington is a very accurate passer but he he cannot throw the long ball. There are question marks over all these players for me still.

Davyjose mentions his belief that Rivers will be a great one, his stats say that but I personally think he still has to prove that he has the bottle for it on the big days. Remember against the Colts it was the running game that beat them. Last year against New England in the playoffs I thought he lacked bottle, remeber the key to that game was the two interceptions and the four field goals, they got no touchdowns in that game. I think the jury is still out on him for that reason, but then again all you have to do is look at Norv Turner and he always looks nervous and maybe that radiates into the team.

Drew Brees looked brilliant this season but until we see him in the pressure cooker we can't truly make up our minds on him.

I don't think Chad Pennington has it either when the heat is on, but we'll wait and see there as well.

To be fair to McNabb I don't think its a pressure thing with him, I just think he has been a bit in and out over the last two season but as I said it seems that since Andy Reid benched him that has all changed. That move by Reid could turn out to be a superbowl winning move yet.

The thing with Eli and Romo is that imo they don't choke up in big games, its just inconsistent performances. If you look at the Eagles/Giants regular season game at the Meadowlands only a couple of weeks, Eli was the very same as the other night, he threw rubbish passes, he looked disinterested, I just don't know what to make of him.

davyjose

eagle eye wrote: »

Davyjose mentions his belief that Rivers will be a great one, his stats say that but I personally think he still has to prove that he has the bottle for it on the big days. Remember against the Colts it was the running game that beat them. Last year against New England in the playoffs I thought he lacked bottle, remeber the key to that game was the two interceptions and the four field goals, they got no touchdowns in that game. I think the jury is still out on him for that reason, but then again all you have to do is look at Norv Turner and he always looks nervous and maybe that radiates into the team.

In his defence, he was back off an injury in that game(against a 17-0 team, so beating them was not a formality). This season the Chargers running game was waaaay below what it had been in years. Rivers (along with Manning - good company) stepped up and threw some pretty unbelieveable numbers in December to reach the Playoffs, from 4-8. When you compare that to Cutler at Denver -- rated very highly by some (not me, it must be said) -- then you can't really say the guy lacks bottle IMO.

I'm not a Chargers fan, nor am I very fond of Rivers. But he's won me over a bit this year. An excellent season.

delanec8

Yeah rivers has carried the chargers all year. I know a lot of people don't like him because of his mouth, but in fairness to him he has cut that part out almost completely this year. I havent seen him shouting at fans or cutler:) this year.

He played well on sunday against the best defence in the league in a big game, and has played well against the colts in the 2 playoff games in the past 2 years (especially last year when injured). He didnt have a great game against the pats last year but as davy says he was injured. For the most part i think he has played well in big games.

eagle eye

delanec8 wrote: »

Yeah rivers has carried the chargers all year. I know a lot of people don't like him because of his mouth, but in fairness to him he has cut that part out almost completely this year. I havent seen him shouting at fans or cutler:) this year.

He played well on sunday against the best defence in the league in a big game, and has played well against the colts in the 2 playoff games in the past 2 years (especially last year when injured). He didnt have a great game against the pats last year but as davy says he was injured. For the most part i think he has played well in big games.

The way a guy conducts himself off the field or how he speaks does not affect my thoughts on his ability to perform on the field.

The only question mark as I've said before for me is what he does when the heat is on.

Against the Steelers last weekend, he had big numbers but you have to analyse those numbers, and most of them came with the last two touchdowns when the game was practically over. He was poor when they were still in the game.

Similarly last year against the Pats, he did not perform at all, and they were in the game right up to the end.

Thats two big games where imo he has failed to produce. He was not good against the Colts this year either. So for me he still has to prove he can do it in the big games.

davyjose

eagle eye wrote: »

The way a guy conducts himself off the field or how he speaks does not affect my thoughts on his ability to perform on the field.

The only question mark as I've said before for me is what he does when the heat is on.

Against the Steelers last weekend, he had big numbers but you have to analyse those numbers, and most of them came with the last two touchdowns when the game was practically over. He was poor when they were still in the game.

Similarly last year against the Pats, he did not perform at all, and they were in the game right up to the end.

Thats two big games where imo he has failed to produce. He was not good against the Colts this year either. So for me he still has to prove he can do it in the big games.

Edit: Man, I've praised the Pats and Bolts Waaaay too much in that post

Meh, with the exception of Brady, you can pick holes in any QB's post-season performance. With the amount of time Rivers has left in his career, I don't think you can really call him up om it. Like I said, the Chargers not winning the SB this year is not his fault (far from it), and last year, he failed (while injured) against one of the best teams of all time. Ok, he still has yet to prove it, but if he keeps going the way he has recently, he will!

Edit: Man, I've praised the Pats and Bolts waaaaay too much in this post :pac:

eagle eye

davyjose wrote: »

Edit: Man, I've praised the Pats and Bolts Waaaay too much in that post

Meh, with the exception of Brady, you can pick holes in any QB's post-season performance. With the amount of time Rivers has left in his career, I don't think you can really call him up om it. Like I said, the Chargers not winning the SB this year is not his fault (far from it), and last year, he failed (while injured) against one of the best teams of all time. Ok, he still has yet to prove it, but if he keeps going the way he has recently, he will!

Edit: Man, I've praised the Pats and Bolts waaaaay too much in this post :pac:

Well I did say earlier that the jury is still out, I'm not saying he won't do it in the future just yet.
All I was saying is that he has to prove himself at the level to become a top QB.

And I missed that before you edited it.:)

delanec8

As far as the steelers game goes, he had no running game to help him. Was sacked 4 times and pressured plenty during the game but the only turnover he had was a bit of a fluke. All this against the best defence in the league makes it a pretty good game from him imo.

The last two TD drives they had, can't be written off. The game wasn't over when he got them within 11 with 9mins left.

He has been quality in the 4th quarter all year. In the losses against carolina and denver he lead them to the lead only for the defence to screw it up in the end. He lead big comebacks in oakland and kansas which were both massive games at the time and the heat was certainly on.

The 3 playoff losses he has been apart of have not been his fault either. The first against patriots was because of some poor play calling at the end from marty, florences dumbass penalty and mccree not just taking a knee after intercepting brady.

Last year against the pats injuries played a big role, and they just came up against a better team. Sunday definitely wasnt his fault.

I only mentioned his reputation, because judging by the pro bowl it certainly affects some people's judgements of him as a player. AFAIK he wasnt even in the top 5 in voting for afc QBs

eagle eye

delanec8 wrote: »

As far as the steelers game goes, he had no running game to help him. Was sacked 4 times and pressured plenty during the game but the only turnover he had was a bit of a fluke. All this against the best defence in the league makes it a pretty good game from him imo.

The last two TD drives they had, can't be written off. The game wasn't over when he got them within 11 with 9mins left.

He has been quality in the 4th quarter all year. In the losses against carolina and denver he lead them to the lead only for the defence to screw it up in the end. He lead big comebacks in oakland and kansas which were both massive games at the time and the heat was certainly on.

The 3 playoff losses he has been apart of have not been his fault either. The first against patriots was because of some poor play calling at the end from marty, florences dumbass penalty and mccree not just taking a knee after intercepting brady.

Last year against the pats injuries played a big role, and they just came up against a better team. Sunday definitely wasnt his fault.

I only mentioned his reputation, because judging by the pro bowl it certainly affects some people's judgements of him as a player. AFAIK he wasnt even in the top 5 in voting for afc QBs

When the probowl was picked it looked like they were having a losing season and thats why he was not picked.
Look you can say what you like but when you are 18 points behind and you throw a touchdown its not a real pressure cooker situation. On both those big yardage drives that he got they were 18 points behind not 11. He reduced it to 11.
You are making excuses for him every game I mentioned.

I'm saying the jury is still out until he does show it in a big playoff game.

So there is no disagreement on how good his arm is or that he has the talent to be a top QB, its just simply that he has to do it under those conditions.

delanec8

eagle eye wrote: »

When the probowl was picked it looked like they were having a losing season and thats why he was not picked.
Look you can say what you like but when you are 18 points behind and you throw a touchdown its not a real pressure cooker situation. On both those big yardage drives that he got they were 18 points behind not 11. He reduced it to 11.
You are making excuses for him every game I mentioned.

I'm saying the jury is still out until he does show it in a big playoff game.

So there is no disagreement on how good his arm is or that he has the talent to be a top QB, its just simply that he has to do it under those conditions.

I know, thats where we disagree. I feel he has proven he can handle the pressure over the 3 years he has played and you don't. Anyway im a chargers fan so maybe i am being a bit biased:)

I doubt ill change your mind, but i dont think you're giving him enough credit for sunday. He didnt get a chance to play (bar the fluke int) in the 2nd half until they were 18 down, and from there he led them on 2 long TD drives against the best defence in the league, on the road. It's not like there was no pressure on him or that the steelers were resting for the ravens

eagle eye

delanec8 wrote: »

I know, thats where we disagree. I feel he has proven he can handle the pressure over the 3 years he has played and you don't. Anyway im a chargers fan so maybe i am being a bit biased:)

I doubt ill change your mind, but i dont think you're giving him enough credit for sunday. He didnt get a chance to play (bar the fluke int) in the 2nd half until they were 18 down, and from there he led them on 2 long TD drives against the best defence in the league, on the road. It's not like there was no pressure on him or that the steelers were resting for the ravens

Well now in fairness I don't think you see the same intensity from a defense when they know the games won.

I did also mention that I'm not a fan of Norv Turner and that I think he looks nervous during big games. I've coached in other sports and I have to honestly say that the last thing I would do is looked worried at any stage. Any time I have to deal with someone its pumping them up or saying something horrid but I'd never let them see nerves. I think if you look nervous its going to affect your players.
And besides that I don't think he is a good enough coach anyways.

delanec8

eagle eye wrote: »

Well now in fairness I don't think you see the same intensity from a defense when they know the games won.

I did also mention that I'm not a fan of Norv Turner and that I think he looks nervous during big games. I've coached in other sports and I have to honestly say that the last thing I would do is looked worried at any stage. Any time I have to deal with someone its pumping them up or saying something horrid but I'd never let them see nerves. I think if you look nervous its going to affect your players.
And besides that I don't think he is a good enough coach anyways.

Yeah you wont find me defending norv. He is a very depressing man to look at alright:D I think we are stuck with him for another year anyway. It wont happen but it would be quality if they sacked him and got shanahan. Anyway thread has gone way off topic

Chucky the tree

:eek:

Eli Manning appears to be in line for a seven- or eight-year contract worth $110 million-$120 million with $40 million in guarantees.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/2009/01/13/2009-01-13_giant_payday_coming_to_eli_manning_after-2.html

kryogen

not unusual in fairness, sure Mcnabb is on a 115 mil contract, palmer is well up there too and vick did have a 130 mil contract, the reality is he probably wont get the full amount, its to help cap room and stuff as im sure you know, need to stretch the contract out!

Chucky the tree

kryogen wrote: »

not unusual in fairness, sure Mcnabb is on a 115 mil contract, palmer is well up there too and vick did have a 130 mil contract, the reality is he probably wont get the full amount, its to help cap room and stuff as im sure you know, need to stretch the contract out!

He's not a patch on McNabb or Palmer though. I think he's a pretty average QB.

davyjose

Chucky the tree wrote: »

He's not a patch on McNabb or Palmer though. I think he's a pretty average QB.

You can't say he's not a patch on Palmer. Whatever you might believe, there's one serious major difference between Palmer and Eli (McNabb too for that matter, but McNabb has shown a longevity of quality - Palmer hasn't) ... P.S. it's the sound your phone makes when someones calling you.

But in my opinion, Palmer has a heeelluva long way to go to put himself anywhere near Eli, and since last Feb will never have McNabbs "perrenial loser" tag to deal with. Until next Sunday, only Tom Brady has more Superbowl "Riing riiing"s than Eli. Maybe the Giants are happier to invest in that, than some randomer off the streets????? Cos you're just NOT gonna pay cheap for a franchise QB, whatever his name is!!!

de5p0i1er

Eli lives under pretty big shadows between Archie and Peyton, he's under alot of stress to live up to the family name and playing in New York dosen't make things any easyer. If ppl left him to do his thing and stopped putting pressure on him off the field he'd play alot better on the field.

eagle eye

de5p0i1er wrote: »

Eli lives under pretty big shadows between Archie and Peyton, he's under alot of stress to live up to the family name and playing in New York dosen't make things any easyer. If ppl left him to do his thing and stopped putting pressure on him off the field he'd play alot better on the field.

NFL franchise QB, leave him alone and no pressure???????????????
FFS every QB in the league has serious pressure on them to perform.

jdivision

de5p0i1er wrote: »

If ppl left him to do his thing and stopped putting pressure on him off the field he'd play alot better on the field.

Yeah, I mean all those ads are done by him for free. He doesn't put himself into the spotlight at all.