London Irish V Connacht. Sat 17. A dead rubber?.

toomevara

Michael Bradley is resting 12 frontliners for Saturdays Challenge cup clash against LI at the Madjeski. Given that LI are taking The Challenge Cup very seriously this year, and the fact that they are one of, if not the, form team in the GP at the moment, it could get messy for Connacht. Haven't seen the LI teamsheet yet, but hope this isn't the Challenge Cup equivalent of 'doing-a-Bourgoin' for Connacht.

sm.org

toomevara wrote: »

Michael Bradley is resting 12 frontliners for Saturdays Challenge cup clash against LI at the Madjeski. Given that LI are taking The Challenge Cup very seriously this year, and the fact that they are one of, if not the, form team in the GP at the moment, it could get messy for Connacht. Haven't seen the LI teamsheet yet, but hope this isn't the Challenge Cup equivalent of 'doing-a-Bourgoin' for Connacht.

I had LI by about 30 in this one, will probably be closer to 60 now.

Zzippy

Reckon LI will play a second string too. The Dax match is far more important for Connacht the following week, and a good few players do need a rest. I didn't think we would actually win this one anyway, so I've no problem with what Bradley's doing. Play to your strengths and target the games you want to get points from.

crisco10

Zzippy wrote: »

Reckon LI will play a second string too. The Dax match is far more important for Connacht the following week, and a good few players do need a rest. I didn't think we would actually win this one anyway, so I've no problem with what Bradley's doing. Play to your strengths and target the games you want to get points from.

Ala Scotland in the World Cup. i think its just smart management...

Erin Go Brath

Hope Conn put up a decent fight. Its an opportunity for fringe players to show what they have anyway even if victory looks remote.

Robbo

Connacht team: (v London Irish)
D Riordan; F Carr, J Hearty, M Deane, T Nathan; A Dunne, K Campbell; J Lyne, A Flavin (C), R Loughney; M Swift, A Farley; A Browne, D Gannon, C Rigney.

Replacements: J Merrigan, B McGovern, M McCarthy, J Muldoon, C O'Loughlin, I Keatley, M Roberts.

Nice to see Mike Roberts back in the squad, I was beginning to think he was a lost cause.

I can see Irish putting out a second team as well. No point in picking up injuries when they can't but top the group and have the League to worry about as well.

sm.org

crisco10 wrote: »

Ala Scotland in the World Cup. i think its just smart management...

Yeah that worked really well for them. If you want to win a tournament then you've got to believe you can win every game. What's Bradley targeting a spot in the semi's, SFW.

[Jackass]

Very unlikely Connacht were going to get anything from this. Smart move and can focus on Dax for qualification.

Who knows, pick your battles and they might just get to do a Connacht on LI later in the competition (just like they did on Leinster & Munster).

If you are of a squeamish or a Connacht supporter....look away now...

sm.org

If they ship 80 points to Irish whats that going to do for confidence.

Dax will probably field their under 18 B team again so their second place finish is never in doubt.

Stev_o

Irish will put a huge score on them and remember they have the smallest squad in the GP (32 i think?) and with their rotation policy i cant find a place where there wont be a decent player playing.

toomevara

Stev_o wrote: »

Irish will put a huge score on them and remember they have the smallest squad in the GP (32 i think?) and with their rotation policy i cant find a place where there wont be a decent player playing.

I hope you're wrong Stev_o, but I tend to agree. And what's all the more galling is I've been talking up Connacht to anyone who'd listen and then I see the fecking squad...

I sincerely hope that LI don't post a cricket score on Connacht, because, notwithstanding the logic of resting frontline players for the Dax game , which I completely understand, a severe trolleying will do nothing for the team or its long term prospects.

sm.org

toomevara wrote: »

I hope you're wrong Stev_o, but I tend to agree. And what's all the more galling is I've been talking up Connacht to anyone who'd listen and then I see the fecking squad...

I sincerely hope that LI don't post a cricket score on Connacht, because, notwithstanding the logic of resting frontline players for the Dax game , which I completely understand, a severe trolleying will do nothing for the team or its long term prospects.

+1 its their second biggest European game of the season. There's effective rotation of 5/6 players and there's conceding the game mid week.

Steyr

Hey guys KO for this is 15:00hrs, is this going to be on TV?:)

Zzippy

sm.org wrote: »

There's effective rotation of 5/6 players and there's conceding the game mid week.

You mean like Munster did against Ulster at Ravenhill?

Steyr wrote: »

Hey guys KO for this is 15:00hrs, is this going to be on TV?:)

Don't think so, I think Sky might be showing the later rounds - QF, SF etc but not the group matches

Digifriendly

Zzippy wrote: »

You mean like Munster did against Ulster at Ravenhill?

No, it wasn't midweek but Saturday night at Ravenhill!

toomevara

London Irish team announced. Looks strong. Definitely not a second string.


15. Peter Hewat; 14. Topsy Ojo*; 13. Seilala Mapusua*; 12. Shane Geraghty*; 11. James Bailey; 10.Mike Catt*; 9. Paul Hodgson*; 1. Clarke Dermody*; 2. David Paice*, 3. Richard Skuse; 4. James Hudson; 5. Bob Casey (captain)*; 6. Richard Thorpe; 7. Steffon Armitage; 8. Chris Hala’Ufia*.

Replacements
16. Dan Murphy; 17. Danie Coetzee*; 18. Tonga Lea’aetoa*; 19. Gary Johnson; 20. Declan Danaher; 21. Warren Fury*; 22. Elvis Seveali’i*.

Robbo

Fionn Carr out with the flu; Mike Roberts to start at 14, Facebook on the bench.

sm.org

toomevara wrote: »

London Irish team announced. Looks strong. Definitely not a second string.


15. Peter Hewat; 14. Topsy Ojo*; 13. Seilala Mapusua*; 12. Shane Geraghty*; 11. James Bailey; 10.Mike Catt*; 9. Paul Hodgson*; 1. Clarke Dermody*; 2. David Paice*, 3. Richard Skuse; 4. James Hudson; 5. Bob Casey (captain)*; 6. Richard Thorpe; 7. Steffon Armitage; 8. Chris Hala’Ufia*.

Replacements
16. Dan Murphy; 17. Danie Coetzee*; 18. Tonga Lea’aetoa*; 19. Gary Johnson; 20. Declan Danaher; 21. Warren Fury*; 22. Elvis Seveali’i*.

Jeez nothing like it, if they lose by 70 points what will Badley say about his rotation plan then?

d-gal

Robbo wrote: »

Fionn Carr out with the flu; Mike Roberts to start at 14, Facebook on the bench.

Facebook?

Zzippy

sm.org wrote: »

Jeez nothing like it, if they lose by 70 points what will Badley say about his rotation plan then?

It won't matter, getting 5 points off Dax is what will qualify us for the quarters, he's obviously written off the LI game already.

d-gal wrote: »

Facebook?

Bibo!

sm.org

Zzippy wrote: »

It won't matter, getting 5 points off Dax is what will qualify us for the quarters, he's obviously written off the LI game already.


Are you saying a 70 point defeat wont do anything for the squads confidence?

Zzippy

sm.org wrote: »

Are you saying a 70 point defeat wont do anything for the squads confidence?

Well they lost 58-0 at Cardiff in September and beat Leinster a week later, so no, it probably won't affect their confidence. They know its a mainly second-string team and are targeting the Dax match a week later with the first team players, who won't be affected by losing by any margin since they weren't playing.

Edit: Double post, I was trying to edit first post and something happened. Mod please delete first post.

g5fd6ow0hseima

looks like 21-05 is the half time score to LI.

42-10 would be nice:)

Climate Expert

sm.org wrote: »

Jeez nothing like it, if they lose by 70 points what will Badley say about his rotation plan then?

And the result was... A 70 point victory!

remus808

Climate Expert wrote: »

And the result was... A 70 point victory!

75-5... I guess the mocker gods have spoken!

toomevara

That was an absolute joke, did no one any favours, merely devalues the currency of Connacht rugby and you can't tell me thats not going to have a huge knock on effect in the dressing room. They'd damn well better beat Dax after that debacle...

il gatto

It's all well and ggod Bradley targeting matches, but the IRFU will take note of such a rout and it'll do them no favours as far as getting funding is concerned.
I'd rather see the first team make Irish work for their win and then watch a tired Connacht win 33-25 over Dax next week, rather than get pummeled this week and beat Dax 60-0 next week.
Supporters like to see Connacht turning over the big teams (pointing no fingers;)), not get handy results against poor teams (not that Dax are actually that awful).
Connacht's good results this season (again, no names:p) I think have earned Bradley a reprieve. Shame really.

Webbs

il gatto wrote: »

It's all well and ggod Bradley targeting matches, but the IRFU will take note of such a rout and it'll do them no favours as far as getting funding is concerned.
I'd rather see the first team make Irish work for their win and then watch a tired Connacht win 33-25 over Dax next week, rather than get pummeled this week and beat Dax 60-0 next week.
Supporters like to see Connacht turning over the big teams (pointing no fingers;)), not get handy results against poor teams (not that Dax are actually that awful).
Connacht's good results this season (again, no names:p) I think have earned Bradley a reprieve. Shame really.

If Connacht do well in the European Cup, I will happily put up with a hammering in London.
This may be a bit of a hypocritical statement but rugby is about winning and not about being a plucky loser. If Bradley feels that a bonus point win against Dax is what it takes to win a place in the quarters and the best way was to fiels a weak team then got to agree with him.
A defeat like that will have no negative impact on the squad, if they had lost by 20 or 30 points with a full team against Irish (a real possibility)then that would really have started to put doubt in their minds, as it is am sure they will be totally up for this one come the weekend (please be to god!)

Zzippy

toomevara wrote: »

That was an absolute joke, did no one any favours, merely devalues the currency of Connacht rugby and you can't tell me thats not going to have a huge knock on effect in the dressing room. They'd damn well better beat Dax after that debacle...

See my earlier reply - I'd say taking a heavy expected beating with a second string side will really have a "huge knock on effect in the dressing room".... :rolleyes:

Zzippy wrote: »

Well they lost 58-0 at Cardiff in September and beat Leinster a week later, so no, it probably won't affect their confidence.

sm.org

Zzippy wrote: »

See my earlier reply - I'd say taking a heavy expected beating with a second string side will really have a "huge knock on effect in the dressing room".... :rolleyes:

Playing one off "big" games against Irish provinces are easy to get motivated for. Dax are going to play their second team again this week. See no point in Badleys choice

toomevara

Zzippy wrote: »

See my earlier reply - I'd say taking a heavy expected beating with a second string side will really have a "huge knock on effect in the dressing room".... :rolleyes:

Zzippy, you're a massively proud Connacht man and I've nothing but respect for that, but I think you're defending the indefensible here. I know why you're doing it and I appreciate it, but the team will lose confidence as a result of that ignominious thrashing and opponent's respect for Connacht will suffer a similar decline.

IMO in the professional era its not acceptable for an Irish provincial side to ship a cricket score in the challenge cup, to any opponents. I spoke to a few of the LI faithful who attended the game over the weekend and one of them characterised it as a semi opposed training run for Li. Thats unacceptable.

Zzippy

toomevara wrote: »

Zzippy, you're a massively proud Connacht man and I've nothing but respect for that, but I think you're defending the indefensible here. I know why you're doing it and I appreciate it, but the team will lose confidence as a result of that ignominious thrashing and opponent's respect for Connacht will suffer a similar decline.

IMO in the professional era its not acceptable for an Irish provincial side to ship a cricket score in the challenge cup, to any opponents. I spoke to a few of the LI faithful who attended the game over the weekend and one of them characterised it as a semi opposed training run for Li. Thats unacceptable.

In your opinion its unacceptable. Thats easy for a Munster fan to say, when you have a squad with enough depth and talent to field 2 good teams, because a) your team are so well funded and b) you have a massive fan base (which by the way is a fairly recent phenomenon). If your province was underfunded and couldn't rely on a large fan base to provide income, you wouldn't be so glib.
Connacht have to make ends meet on a shoestring, and haven't got the squad to field 2 strong teams. What are we supposed to do, send out the first team week in week out without a rest? No other province does that.

Munster rested players over Christmas in the ML because HEC is their priority, and they are targeting those games, when they play their first team. I could argue that resting players against Ulster (and losing heavily) is unacceptable, particularly from our perspective. But thats different I suppose... :rolleyes:

toomevara

Zzippy wrote: »

In your opinion its unacceptable. Thats easy for a Munster fan to say, when you have a squad with enough depth and talent to field 2 good teams, because a) your team are so well funded and b) you have a massive fan base (which by the way is a fairly recent phenomenon). If your province was underfunded and couldn't rely on a large fan base to provide income, you wouldn't be so glib.
Connacht have to make ends meet on a shoestring, and haven't got the squad to field 2 strong teams. What are we supposed to do, send out the first team week in week out without a rest? No other province does that.

Munster rested players over Christmas in the ML because HEC is their priority, and they are targeting those games, when they play their first team. I could argue that resting players against Ulster (and losing heavily) is unacceptable, particularly from our perspective. But thats different I suppose... :rolleyes:

Fair play Zzippy, guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Webbs

Zzippy wrote: »

In your opinion its unacceptable. Thats easy for a Munster fan to say, when you have a squad with enough depth and talent to field 2 good teams, because a) your team are so well funded and b) you have a massive fan base (which by the way is a fairly recent phenomenon). If your province was underfunded and couldn't rely on a large fan base to provide income, you wouldn't be so glib.
Connacht have to make ends meet on a shoestring, and haven't got the squad to field 2 strong teams. What are we supposed to do, send out the first team week in week out without a rest? No other province does that.

Munster rested players over Christmas in the ML because HEC is their priority, and they are targeting those games, when they play their first team. I could argue that resting players against Ulster (and losing heavily) is unacceptable, particularly from our perspective. But thats different I suppose... :rolleyes:

+1 a good post - sums up the imbalance between the provinces

Zzippy,
What would you say the area of concern would be for connacht.Say we take strength in depth out of it,what areas in the team are of major concern and if addressed could turn Connacht from also rans to mid table?

IMO a guy who used to go to my school,Foley in the Leinster academy should be sent down to connacht.Think of Cave except younger better and stronger.He is a 13 and will play for Ireland,these are the stupid things not happening that could help Connacht rugby.

Also O'Malley could go and play 12,another one who will end up playing for ireland.Stuff like that just pisses me off.

il gatto

Send O'Malley this way, by all means. Great young player.
As much as I can see Zzippy's point, it cannot be good to be the subject of record wins for teams that you should be able to run close. If Connacht can beat the likes of Leinster and Munster, regardless of their selection or attitude, there's no reason to drag the province's name through the dirt by losing by 70 points. It's bad for the second string players, bad for Connacht's reputation and bad for supporters. I'll take a plucky defeat any day, rather than see my province bent over and ridden by the likes of London Irish.

Dave Joyce

As a Connacht fan, I have to agree with Zzippy and would also think that Bradleys tactics were right for the Irish game. The other point that is important to consider is that a lot of guys were given match experience against very good opposition with very little at stake. Now IF we get a bonus point against Dax, then I don't think ANYONE inside the camp (players or supporters) will give a shi-te about the Irish game.

il gatto

Dave Joyce wrote: »

As a Connacht fan, I have to agree with Zzippy and would also think that Bradleys tactics were right for the Irish game. The other point that is important to consider is that a lot of guys were given match experience against very good opposition with very little at stake. Now IF we get a bonus point against Dax, then I don't think ANYONE inside the camp (players or supporters) will give a shi-te about the Irish game.

Getting their ar5es handed to them in a 70 point defeat is not experience. It's mental scarring. I want the result against Dax, but why do people think that getting a respectable result against Irish is mutually exclusive from that? We've been here before (ECC knock out stages) and then spent several seasons in the wilderness. Bradley has had his shot at it.

thehighground

Zzippy wrote: »

In your opinion its unacceptable. Thats easy for a Munster fan to say, when you have a squad with enough depth and talent to field 2 good teams, because a) your team are so well funded and b) you have a massive fan base (which by the way is a fairly recent phenomenon). If your province was underfunded and couldn't rely on a large fan base to provide income, you wouldn't be so glib.
Connacht have to make ends meet on a shoestring, and haven't got the squad to field 2 strong teams. What are we supposed to do, send out the first team week in week out without a rest? No other province does that.

Munster rested players over Christmas in the ML because HEC is their priority, and they are targeting those games, when they play their first team. I could argue that resting players against Ulster (and losing heavily) is unacceptable, particularly from our perspective. But thats different I suppose... :rolleyes:

As a Munster supporter, I know that we are well funded - but most of that funding is due to the work on the pitch and what the Munster players have built from little or nothing.

Just one or two things about resting players:

a) What were Connacht players doing when the internationals were playing the AIs (so the likes of Ronan O'Gara has 3 extra games to your average Connacht player) and which Munster then have to rest him for (+ about 12/14 others from Munster).

b) The international players have 5 games in the 6Ns to play in the next couple of weeks. What will the Connacht players be doing then?

c) Then Munster (who have qualified) and possibly Leinster's players are back involved in the next round of the Heineken Cup. What are the Connacht players going to be doing during this time?

I think you will find that Munster & Leinster need larger squads because they have the extra 12 international games to play every year, not to mention the later stages of Heineken Cup (hopefully another 3 games in Munster's case after the 6Ns).

Ciaran Fitzgerald's famous words when playing England back in the '80s came to mind when I saw that result.

thehighground

thehighground wrote: »

As a Munster supporter, I know that we are well funded - but most of that funding is due to the work on the pitch and what the Munster players have built from little or nothing.

No its not,they were well funded before any success,just like Leinster and Ulster

Just one or two things about resting players:

a) What were Connacht players doing when the internationals were playing the AIs (so the likes of Ronan O'Gara has 3 extra games to your average Connacht player) and which Munster then have to rest him for (+ about 12/14 others from Munster).

Munster have warwick to pick.

b) The international players have 5 games in the 6Ns to play in the next couple of weeks. What will the Connacht players be doing then?

Well there not going to get any better are they?

c) Then Munster (who have qualified) and possibly Leinster's players are back involved in the next round of the Heineken Cup. What are the Connacht players going to be doing during this time?

Practicing and feeling **** from their huge loss

I think you will find that Munster & Leinster need larger squads because they have the extra 12 international games to play every year, not to mention the later stages of Heineken Cup (hopefully another 3 games in Munster's case after the 6Ns).

Connacht would love this problem

Ciaran Fitzgerald's famous words when playing England back in the '80s came to mind when I saw that result.

Ciaran Fitzgerald didnt have a team of kids and ****ty players.

Zzippy

Avianna Colossal Chipmunk wrote: »

Zzippy,
What would you say the area of concern would be for connacht.Say we take strength in depth out of it,what areas in the team are of major concern and if addressed could turn Connacht from also rans to mid table?

IMO a guy who used to go to my school,Foley in the Leinster academy should be sent down to connacht.Think of Cave except younger better and stronger.He is a 13 and will play for Ireland,these are the stupid things not happening that could help Connacht rugby.

Also O'Malley could go and play 12,another one who will end up playing for ireland.Stuff like that just pisses me off.

From 1-15, we have a couple of problems alright. Hooker is ok, Cronin is a great young player that will go on to better things, Flavin is very good cover. First choice props are decent enough, but no cover, Lyne was shown up vs Leinster, even if his opponent wasn't binding properly. Second row is ok, noting spectacular, could do with better ball carriers here. Back row is fine. Half backs we are very happy with, Murphy and Keatley have been outstanding this year. Midfield a problem, Ta'auso looks promising but we are otherwise weak here unless Duffy is playing centre. Wings also a problem, Bibo is nothing special, Roberts a big disappointment so far, Riordan perpetually injured. Fionn Carr is best at FB although Duffy is best there too so Carr can play on the wing. Very little cover after 1-15.
We would love to get our hands on O'Malley. Haven't heard of Foley yet, but I'm sure if he doesn't work out at Leinster he might head west...

Webbs

thehighground wrote: »

As a Munster supporter, I know that we are well funded - but most of that funding is due to the work on the pitch and what the Munster players have built from little or nothing.

Just one or two things about resting players:

a) What were Connacht players doing when the internationals were playing the AIs (so the likes of Ronan O'Gara has 3 extra games to your average Connacht player) and which Munster then have to rest him for (+ about 12/14 others from Munster).

b) The international players have 5 games in the 6Ns to play in the next couple of weeks. What will the Connacht players be doing then?

c) Then Munster (who have qualified) and possibly Leinster's players are back involved in the next round of the Heineken Cup. What are the Connacht players going to be doing during this time?

I think you will find that Munster & Leinster need larger squads because they have the extra 12 international games to play every year, not to mention the later stages of Heineken Cup (hopefully another 3 games in Munster's case after the 6Ns).

Ciaran Fitzgerald's famous words when playing England back in the '80s came to mind when I saw that result.

Firstly Munster get a much larger slice of the IRFU pie, that in turn means they can buy international players which in turn should bring in sponsorship and bigger crowds.

You also pretty much bring down your own argument by talking about the dilemma that Munster have in that they have so many current internationals yet can bring on players who would be Munster second string but would be first choice at Connacht. If you look at the squads apart from the forwards Munster would not be overly weakened by international duty (stringer for o'leary, warwick for ROG, etc)

Connacht would love to have the dilemma of trying to juggle international duty with avoiding player fatigue.

From your comment about Munster and Leinster needing bigger squads you dont see it as a catch 22? ie if you have int level players you need a big squad, to get a big squad you need money, to get money (from increased gate and sponshorship) you need success, to get success you need int level players

thehighground

Webbs wrote: »

Firstly Munster get a much larger slice of the IRFU pie, that in turn means they can buy international players which in turn should bring in sponsorship and bigger crowds.

Munster develop most of their own players and don't buy them (and certainly didn't buy in any until they actually started doing well in the Heineken Cup).

You also pretty much bring down your own argument by talking about the dilemma that Munster have in that they have so many current internationals yet can bring on players who would be Munster second string but would be first choice at Connacht. If you look at the squads apart from the forwards Munster would not be overly weakened by international duty (stringer for o'leary, warwick for ROG, etc)

I was only making the point that players in the Munster/Leinster squads have a lot more games to play between International/tours/HCup than what the Connacht (& Ulster squad have to play). That has to be reflected in the numbers in their squad. Most of them are developed in Munster and it is fairly understandable if most of them want to stay in Munster.

Connacht would love to have the dilemma of trying to juggle international duty with avoiding player fatigue.

From your comment about Munster and Leinster needing bigger squads you dont see it as a catch 22? ie if you have int level players you need a big squad, to get a big squad you need money, to get money (from increased gate and sponshorship) you need success, to get success you need int level players

What about Connacht just getting off the floor of the Magners? (bear in mind, Toulouse put 50+ on Munster 10 years ago).

I don't think any coach from the other provinces would want their young players going to a province that allowed them to think that its ok to compete in 3/6 games a season (depending on whether it was home and away) and then just take a beating week after week. It would take a special kind of player to want to go to suffer a beating every week, because that is what will happen to them.