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The dole is too much!!

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    #272
    CamperMan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭CamperMan


    latchyco wrote: »
    If I was on the dole and I won a few hundred quid on a bet/ inheritence/ found it on the street / saved it , I would piss off to NYC or anywere else that took my fancy .

    This person does this regular as clock work, 3 or more holidays a year, and Christmas shopping to New York... they have not worked for over 15 years, no inheritance, they don't sell stuff to afford these holidays, they buy stuff, new TV's, fags, booze, all the channels on Sky TV.... :mad:


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    #273
    alrilad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭alrilad


    Thats not possiable... on 200 odd euro a week:eek: I work full time and earn few euro more than that and still only a dream for me and many others:mad:


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    #274
    97i9y3941
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭97i9y3941


    CamperMan wrote: »
    This person does this regular as clock work, 3 or more holidays a year, and Christmas shopping to New York... they have not worked for over 15 years, no inheritance, they don't sell stuff to afford these holidays, they buy stuff, new TV's, fags, booze, all the channels on Sky TV.... :mad:

    sick and insulting,i dont know how the hell someone in the welfare department puts a stop to this,or maybe theres no actual law so the head inspector cant do anything


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    #275
    anonymous2009
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭anonymous2009


    manafana wrote: »
    obviously your not going to have luxury been on the dole why should you, severence pay and regulations are in place for those laid off to help them and their are top ups in the first few months of unemployment if you have the PRSI contributions

    What top ups are these?

    I only know of redundancy bulk payment, statuatory notice, jobseekers benefit, and possibly rent allowance?


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    #276
    97i9y3941
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭97i9y3941


    fuel allowance?


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    #277
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    brianthebard wrote: »
    No the dole is not too much. In fact what you are given is not enough-there's not enough support for job seeking, for education and re education, for socialising and making sure people aren't isolated and on their own. You may think free money is a great gig but as seamus says there's no reward to it.

    On what do you base this. Say the long term unemployed before the recession -did they job seek?

    Education and reeducation paid by FAS?

    Socialising - like doing what the pub and bookies.

    Its a fair question -what is the payment for and what services like education and reeducation are free?


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    #278
    97i9y3941
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭97i9y3941


    cdfm is right,there was some people who during the boom didnt seek employment,and now in recession the same people are blending into the rest of us poor souls who had lost jobs


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    #279
    CamperMan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭CamperMan


    Fred83 wrote: »
    sick and insulting,i dont know how the hell someone in the welfare department puts a stop to this,or maybe theres no actual law so the head inspector cant do anything

    I know a few people that have been on the dole for many years and I know people on the dole that have been on it less than a year, the long term dole bums never seem to get bothered by dole inspectors, the new claimants get interrogated on a regular basis.

    Another guy I know has been on the dole for at least 7 years, he can't read or write so the dole don't hassle him.. jeez, how much would he have got over 7 years on the dole for him and his family, probably over €150,000 (dole money, rent allowance, medical fees, fuel allowance and whatever else they can scrounge), why don't the government teach him to read and write so he can get a job.. oh, forgot, he already has one.. cash in hand and has done for the same duration he has claimed dole for!!!. this seems to be the thing to do here in Ireland, claim dole and work on the side in the black economy....


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    #280
    mollypop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 70 ✭✭mollypop


    menoscemo wrote: »
    We Have a retarded dole system, no doubt.
    Whether you have been working constantly for the last 20 years and paying taxes or whether you have never worked a day in your life, you get the same money.

    I agree - there's no way people who have never worked should be getting the same as people who've worked for the past 5/20/20 years and paid loads of tax & PRSI. There has to be a fairer system, a monkey could come up with one.

    It's the lifer's who really get me. My friend was unfortunate enough to get one of those lifers pregnant 13 years ago. She'd been on the dole a while and this was just the ticket she'd been waiting for. Now she has a pretty decent house, free health care, single mothers allowance, fuel allowance etc plus the 400+ child support. She's not worked a single day in the past 12 years. I feel like mowing her down when I see her cross the street. But I've said it before - don't hate the player, hate the game. It's not her fault she can abuse the system, it's the systems. :rolleyes:


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    #281
    Redpunto
    Registered Users Posts: 2,024 ✭✭✭Redpunto


    The are gangs of people in this country who know how to "work the system". Its by and large a generational thing - the ma and da on benefits and the kids come along and know exactly what to claim and how to claim it and give give two sh*ts bout falsifying whatever information they need to to get what they want.


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    #282
    mollypop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 70 ✭✭mollypop


    CDfm wrote: »
    Socialising - like doing what the pub and bookies.

    Worked in a bookies in my student years. There were a large group of dole-bums who lived in the bookies everyday. Didn't bother me as much back then, now I'm working full time, paying more tax then I ever thought possible & watching people I know who really need the money jump through hoops to get it, these guys really infuriate me! :mad:


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    #283
    alrilad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭alrilad


    It was easer for the gov to pay all these people when times where good, that way they didnt have to worry about retraining them.. Now hasent the s**t hit the fan.. no money in the country and the people who paid there taxes will pay for the gov mistakes .But hey aren't we used to it!!!:mad:


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    #284
    97i9y3941
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭97i9y3941


    Redpunto wrote: »
    The are gangs of people in this country who know how to "work the system". Its by and large a generational thing - the ma and da on benefits and the kids come along and know exactly what to claim and how to claim it and give give two sh*ts bout falsifying whatever information they need to to get what they want.

    catch 22 situation aswell,the outsiders of ireland are staying for it too because of legal rights,so along with some lifer dolers,they can stay and claim all they want,basically the gov is telling you,why bother working when you get all the allowances,the british system seems to be more realistic


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    #285
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    seamus wrote: »
    If you think that sleeping, eating and smoking is a good way to spend your day, and living in a ****ty part of the city in a ****ty place and only having €200/week to spend is the definition of "great living", then off you go.

    Personally, actually filling my day with stuff is far more rewarding. I've done the "no job" bit - getting up at midday and cooking burger and chips, then watching TV till 8pm. It gets old after a week and you spend your entire day in mind-numbing boredom.

    But yes, I do think the dole is too much. It should be a series of "allowances", where the person presents receipts for their rent, medical bills and any other fixed costs, and the government looks after that. Then they get a small subsistence, say €100/week for food and clothing. Giving people a wad of cash to blow on whatever they like only serves to compound the problem in cases where the person is unemployed by choice.

    Unfortunatly Seamus, there are people who are happy with this sort of lifestyle. You'd probably work your way round to this sort of lifestyle after enjoying a few joints of weed......


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    #286
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Fred83 wrote: »
    catch 22 situation aswell,the outsiders of ireland are staying for it too because of legal rights,so along with some lifer dolers,they can stay and claim all they want,basically the gov is telling you,why bother working when you get all the allowances,the british system seems to be more realistic

    The UK rate is 84.50 pounds p.w. I would challenge anyone to live on that for a week and have to contribute to rent (actually do the gov in the UK have a rent allowance scheme?).


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    #287
    97i9y3941
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭97i9y3941


    there is fierce mumbleing about the gov cutting payment on the dole,i would support that,aslong as people that have family/kids arent cut in the meagre payment


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    #288
    MIN2511
    Registered Users Posts: 5,398 ✭✭✭MIN2511


    Fred83 wrote: »
    there is fierce mumbleing about the gov cutting payment on the dole,i would support that,aslong as people that have family/kids arent cut in the meagre payment
    The families/Kids and old people are the first ones to be targeted in our economy....


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    #289
    Daroxtar
    Registered Users Posts: 4,342 ✭✭✭Daroxtar


    Fred83 wrote: »
    there is fierce mumbleing about the gov cutting payment on the dole,i would support that,aslong as people that have family/kids arent cut in the meagre payment

    I think it would be completley unfair to cut any payments for families from people who are on their stamps after being laid off. If youve been working and paying tax and prsi you should be able to keep your benifits. Its your money after all.


    However i think that people who never worked should not recive the same benefits and should have to make do with less. The state should provide for the less well off but it is under no obligation to provide luxuries for people who just sit about waiting for the next handout


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    #290
    crocadile dunde
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭crocadile dunde


    why is everyone bitter how us dole folks have it easy,give it a try u might like it i get my free tea n coffe in the bookies if i need milk i go for an early morning jog n steal it off a door step if i need to make a phone call i use the dog n bone down the welfare and every now and then if the weather is nice sit on the street in town with a blanket and look hungry then that nite go out on the lash,see what i mean life is sweet dont be bitter
    Mairt wrote: »
    Here's where your wrong.

    The government don't pay his rent, WE THE TAX PAYER pay your waster of a mates rent.

    Your mate is a lazy cunt, it doesn't mean the rest of the people on the dole follow suit.

    Thankfully I'm not on the dole, and haven't been since the early 80's so I honestly don't know if its too much are not.

    But what is too much is seeing lazy bastards like your mate sponge off the Irish tax payer, then have simpletons tar everyone else with the same brush.


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    #291
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    crocadile dunde wrote: »
    why is everyone bitter how us dole folks have it easy,give it a try u might like it i get my free tea n coffe in the bookies if i need milk i go for an early morning jog n steal it off a door step if i need to make a phone call i use the dog n bone down the welfare and every now and then if the weather is nice sit on the street in town with a blanket and look hungry then that nite go out on the lash,see what i mean life is sweet dont be bitter

    Trolling on your first post. Good start keep it up.


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    #292
    CamperMan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭CamperMan


    stepbar wrote: »
    The UK rate is 84.50 pounds p.w. I would challenge anyone to live on that for a week and have to contribute to rent (actually do the gov in the UK have a rent allowance scheme?).

    yes, the UK have a rent allowance scheme in place


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    #293
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    but our welfare system pays children allowance for children not resident in the state :mad:

    Do we also give married and dependants allowances on the dole for wives and families not living in Ireland.


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    #294
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    ongarite wrote: »
    Don't know if the red herring of can we afford to keep paying out dole of €204 a week with possible trebling of people seeking job seekers allowance/unemployment benefit has been adressed?

    The increases in dole payments over the last decade were built on the assumption that levels of unemployment would never go above 5-6%. Now there have never been more people unemployeed (not as percentage of workforce but actual no. of people) and its looking like it will double again this year.

    We are damned if we do and damned if we don't.
    Either reduce dole payments and piss off an ever increasing amount of people or have to seriously increase taxes of those in work to pay for those who are not.

    Looking at it from a purely economic point of view, the dole is nearly 3 times as much in Ireland as it is in the UK, child benfit over twice as much. Totally unsustainable in this climate.

    Welcome to lalaland, where the dole is among the highest in the world, at the same time the country is running a massive deficit, just when the government needs the income, the workers lose their jobs and their income tax disappears, these workers then claim social benefit...the system can't stand too long. The high dole was a pay-off for votes. The dole can be cut because consumer prices and inflation are going down. It would be fairer to do this in a stepped manner over a number of years although I'm not sure the govt. has the money to support it that long.


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    #295
    Mena
    Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭Mena


    maninasia wrote: »
    Welcome to lalaland, where the dole is among the highest in the world, at the same time the country is running a massive deficit, just when the government needs the income, the workers lose their jobs and their income tax disappears, these workers then claim social benefit...the system can't stand too long. The high dole was a pay-off for votes. The dole can be cut because consumer prices and inflation are going down. It would be fairer to do this in a stepped manner over a number of years although I'm not sure the govt. has the money to support it that long.

    If you've paid your PRSI it's YOUR money. Now what I would agree with is limiting the duration of the payments. If you worked for 10 years and paid 20k* in PRSI, then you get that 20k back, over say a one or two year period. After that, sort yourself out.


    *not actual figures


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    #296
    Clueless09
    Closed Accounts Posts: 139 ✭✭Clueless09


    madmik wrote: »
    actually they do

    its possible to claim about 130 a week for rent

    i have a friend who claims

    204 for normal dole
    130 odd for rent allowance
    another 15 for smokeless fuel allowance
    and a medical card(variable value)

    total 349

    its quite reasonable for doing nothing but it needs to be this high
    as people are accustomed to a good standard of life from the boom
    and taxes paid reflect this

    I am on the dole since i got made redundant in Dec. The rent allowance depends on a lot of things, If you have a partner that it is employment for one you are not entitled to any, if you have a partner who is working your not entitled to a medical card or GP visit card or any fuel allowance.
    If you have a mortgage (which I do) you are entitled only to 204 per week. Even on jobseekers benefit I have to show the dole office one letter every month to show i have applied for a job (i have a lot more than 1 every month)

    To the poster who said anyone on jobseekers benefit should have to clean graffiti or streets to get your benefit, would you be happy to have your mother or father doing that?? My father is 61 and was just made redundant last week, if someone in the dole office told him to do something like that to get a poxy 204 a week after working for 40 something years, I would have to drag them over the counter and beat that sh*te out of them. WE have worked for our benefit-we are just drawing stamps we have paid over the years...

    And to everyone who has a "friend" or neighbour who is scamming the system, they are taking money right out of your pocket.
    Report them, they give the rest of us who are unlucky enough to lose our jobs a bad name.


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    #297
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    madmik wrote: »
    actually they do

    its possible to claim about 130 a week for rent

    i have a friend who claims

    204 for normal dole
    130 odd for rent allowance
    another 15 for smokeless fuel allowance
    and a medical card(variable value)

    total 349

    its quite reasonable for doing nothing but it needs to be this high
    as people are accustomed to a good standard of life from the boom
    and taxes paid reflect this

    the unmarried mothers allowances are higher arent they and include housing


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    #298
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    I touched on the subject of professional dole bums in another thread and was bombarded by the dopey lift-wingers demanding stats.
    Why arent they demanding proof in this thread?
    Maybe they know they're not living in the real world...


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    #299
    Mary D
    Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭Mary D


    I'm sorry, but I have to agree that welfare payments are too high. I have a friend who has a 6 year daughter. She got made redundant late last year and got a pay off of nearly €100k, she was living with her parents at the time. Now she has has been housed in a 3 bed apt (in a nice area) and only pays €50p.w. towards the rent, the welfare pay the rest. She collects her social welfare and lone parents and also benefits from a medical card for herself and her daughter. She was offered a job but turned it down because she can't afford to give up all her benefits. Surely this is not right where we have people who are better off on the labour. This girl goes out 3 nights a week. I couldn't afford her lifesyle and I work and full week. I like many others, have to pay my own mortgage, don't get any child benefits and if I get sick have to pay to visit my doctor. I really feel for people who have just lost their jobs and are struggling to make ends meet as I know it could be me next week, but lets be honest there are too many people who know how to play the system and have no intention of working ever again.


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    #300
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Mary D wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but I have to agree that welfare payments are too high. I have a friend who has a 6 year daughter. She got made redundant late last year and got a pay off of nearly €100k, she was living with her parents at the time. Now she has has been housed in a 3 bed apt (in a nice area) and only pays €50p.w. towards the rent, the welfare pay the rest. She collects her social welfare and lone parents and also benefits from a medical card for herself and her daughter. She was offered a job but turned it down because she can't afford to give up all her benefits. Surely this is not right where we have people who are better off on the labour. This girl goes out 3 nights a week. I couldn't afford her lifesyle and I work and full week. I like many others, have to pay my own mortgage, don't get any child benefits and if I get sick have to pay to visit my doctor. I really feel for people who have just lost their jobs and are struggling to make ends meet as I know it could be me next week, but lets be honest there are too many people who know how to play the system and have no intention of working ever again.

    Too right Mary - we are paying higher welfare than the country can afford.

    Lets borrow 50 billion and pay yer woman. Ya roight.


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    #301
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Degsy wrote: »
    I touched on the subject of professional dole bums in another thread and was bombarded by the dopey lift-wingers demanding stats.
    Why arent they demanding proof in this thread?
    Maybe they know they're not living in the real world...

    I had the same thing.

    You dont get it now with levies etc

    People are loosing their jobs as our labour costs are 20% too high

    Less wages leess taxes


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