The dole is too much!!

thelordofcheese

Degsy wrote: »

I touched on the subject of professional dole bums in another thread and was bombarded by the dopey lift-wingers demanding stats.
Why arent they demanding proof in this thread?
Maybe they know they're not living in the real world...

Where's your stats on people not asking for stats, hmnmm?

Berty

21% of all statistics are made up or didnt you know?

Mary D

As things stand at the moment, so many people are loosing their jobs, people are taking pay cuts/freezes and people are working short weeks. This means less money being paid in taxes. If employed people are taking a hit so should the unemployed, there's not enough money in the Country to keep paying welfare at the high rates we've been paying them at particularly now as the dole queues are getting longer, the money needs to be stretched further. We have to have one of the highest paid welfare systems in europe (btw I don't have any stats on that)!

GarretWilliams

Mary D wrote: »

As things stand at the moment, so many people are loosing their jobs, people are taking pay cuts/freezes and people are working short weeks. This means less money being paid in taxes. If employed people are taking a hit so should the unemployed, there's not enough money in the Country to keep paying welfare at the high rates we've been paying them at particularly now as the dole queues are getting longer, the money needs to be stretched further. We have to have one of the highest paid welfare systems in europe (btw I don't have any stats on that)!

Again, think before you type. You see every action has consequences.

You know nothing. About 5% of every tax euro goes on welfare. In the UK 72% of every pound is spent on the military.

Did they not just give 20 billion to a few banks in the biggest hold up job in history. But, the smug irish. Always attack those who cannot defend themselves.

Mary, how about you go and picket your local AIB, or would you be afraid of the neighbours seeing you?

Mary D

Garrett, trust me I have a major problem with how the government have handled the banking situation, in fact I really think it was criminal. I'm not out to attack anymore. I don't understand how you can compare the precentage we spend on welfare to the precentage the English pay on millitary, I think you should be one to be thinking here as your reasoning makes absolutely no sense. Also I think the bank you mean me to picket is Anglo Irish Bank rather than Allied Irish Bank. No-one is the subject of any attack, but this Country as a whole needs major change and reform right from dole payments to CEO salaries in banks.

ongarite

GarretWilliams wrote: »

Again, think before you type. You see every action has consequences.

You know nothing. About 5% of every tax euro goes on welfare. In the UK 72% of every pound is spent on the military.

Any links to that those figures you just pulled from thin air? I find that hard to believe.

Berty

I took a hit on commission of around 8K so far in the recession, took a demotion, pay decrease in November and 5% pay decrease last week. My accomodation allowance has been reduced, my lunch allowance reduced and the tracking system monitoring my vehicles movements has been watched closer.

Yet I still have a job. Im now earning a low wage and the governement have increased my Benefit in kind payments on the company vehicle.

I sit listening to guys on the radio on strike yesterday and one guy in Dublin had the cheek to claim he was on a low wage of €26,000. How the feck is that a low wage?

I was sent a letter from the EBS saying I have to pay more mortage protection insurance because they have to pay more and more claims.

Last week I watched 19% of my colleagues lose their jobs at work.

I watch the queues on the unemployment line growing and growing, I see the jobs on Jobs.ie, Irishjobs etc steadily declining. I count my lucky stars I can just about squeeze through on my wages and would hate to be on the bread line or social welfare assistance.

I feel pain for the people having to do so. I once though like most that most people claiming unemployment assistance are scroungers and too lazy to work because jobs were abundant. My opinion changed overnight months ago when people who actually want to work cannot work.

The unemployment assistance is not too low and not too high. Its just unfortunate that there are so many people on it that have exceedinly higher outgoings than the amount paid by the government.

Do I want to contribute more to support them earning more on social welfare? Personally, no because I felt I have given up so much because of the recession already. Around €20k down I am on my earnings last year- potentially and could be worse.

starflake

I work full time. Don't drink, dont smoke, travel to work every day by train. buy about 40 euro of shopping every week. I easily live on about 150 euro a week. easily. OK if I go clothes shopping or eat out or whatever I will have far more over heads. I really think 200 euro a week is plenty. train costs 26euro a week, rent 70 a week, shopping 40. Is it cars and mortgages that are the main expenses for people?

Berty

starflake wrote: »

I work full time. Don't drink, dont smoke, travel to work every day by train. buy about 40 euro of shopping every week. I easily live on about 150 euro a week. easily. OK if I go clothes shopping or eat out or whatever I will have far more over heads. I really think 200 euro a week is plenty. train costs 26euro a week, rent 70 a week, shopping 40. Is it cars and mortgages that are the main expenses for people?

And by working your P60 you can claim back your tax rate on your train tickets and rent relief including pension contributions, trade union subscriptions, bin tags, refuse collection..........

GarretWilliams

Mary D wrote: »

Garrett, trust me I have a major problem with how the government have handled the banking situation, in fact I really think it was criminal. I'm not out to attack anymore. I don't understand how you can compare the precentage we spend on welfare to the precentage the English pay on millitary, I think you should be one to be thinking here as your reasoning makes absolutely no sense. Also I think the bank you mean me to picket is Anglo Irish Bank rather than Allied Irish Bank. No-one is the subject of any attack, but this Country as a whole needs major change and reform right from dole payments to CEO salaries in banks.

I meant the AIB alright.

Wait are you one of this new breed of Irish people. The "bring in the IMF, let Europe take over" crew. (all generated from one Irish Times article a few weeks ago).

Our politicians are acting with a gun to their heads. Globalization?? A race to the bottom.

Problems are created, so that society can then be thrown into confusion. Then a "new way" must be found. Age old tricks, ORDER OUT OF CHAOS.


All I am saying, don't attack the ordinary people, they were not "all in this togeather" when the banks were making millions, but now they must share the burden??????????????????????????????????????

Mary D

Berty wrote: »

Do I want to contribute more to support them earning more on social welfare? Personally, no because I felt I have given up so much because of the recession already. Around €20k down I am on my earnings last year- potentially and could be worse.

This what I'm trying to say, everyone is taking a hit, no one is safe and things are tight for everyone. Cuts will have to be made to welfare payments as there is not enough people working anymore to support the payments being made.

Mary D

Garret, again I'm not attacking any one personally we're all "oridinary people" and yes we all were in it together, we all benefited in some way from the celtic tiger be it, we had better jobs, higher salaries, nicer cars, bigger houses all our lives benefited in some form or other, now that is being rectified in the downturn, we're all taking pay cuts, loosing jobs, loosing houses, no more nice holidays etc etc. Welfare payments were also increased in the good years now they also have to be rectified, we are billions of euro in debt and we can't afford to pay these high amounts anymore. I would love the government to do their job and actually lead this country and come down like a tone of bricks on the builders and bankers that have the country in such state.. who wouldn't. The fact still remains that we are in this state and something has to give.

starflake

Berty wrote: »

And by working your P60 you can claim back your tax rate on your train tickets and rent relief including pension contributions, trade union subscriptions, bin tags, refuse collection..........

I can? I didnt know that. have p60 in front of me here.. I am totally clueless about tax and such

GarretWilliams

Mary D wrote: »

Garret, again I'm not attacking any one personally we're all "oridinary people" and yes we all were in it together, we all benefited in some way from the celtic tiger be it, we had better jobs, higher salaries, nicer cars, bigger houses all our lives benefited in some form or other, now that is being rectified in the downturn, we're all taking pay cuts, loosing jobs, loosing houses, no more nice holidays etc etc. Welfare payments were also increased in the good years now they also have to be rectified, we are billions of euro in debt and we can't afford to pay these high amounts anymore. I would love the government to do their job and actually lead this country and come down like a tone of bricks on the builders and bankers that have the country in such state.. who wouldn't. The fact still remains that we are in this state and something has to give.

I don't doubt you sincerity. Just realise that you are going down a route that has been set out for you.

And no, the poor were not "all in this togeather" in the past. It was "dog eat dog". I am yet to encounter anyone from inner city Dublin who was picking up dividend cheques over the last 15 years.

GarretWilliams

starflake wrote: »

I can? I didnt know that. have p60 in front of me here.. I am totally clueless about tax and such

Go to revenue.ie you can claim back for the last 5 years. Got a neighbour of mine €5500 there a few weeks ago.

Mena

starflake wrote: »

I can? I didnt know that. have p60 in front of me here.. I am totally clueless about tax and such

Have a read of this.

starflake

Brilliant thanks a mill

Mary D

I didn't pick up any dividend cheques myself (and I don't live too far from Inner City Dublin and I doubt very much you even know anyone from there) but I can't deny that the Celtic Tiger brought with it opportunities for me (through a lot of hard work) that I wouldn't have got in a million years otherwise. There Celtic years were not the doom and gloom years as you seem to be suggesting, all kinds of people benefited whether you like to beleive it or not.

Mena

starflake wrote: »

Brilliant thanks a mill

Actually, read this thread as well, it will prove very useful.

Berty

starflake wrote: »

Brilliant thanks a mill

* Ahem. Finders fee please. 5%

GarretWilliams

Mary D wrote: »

I didn't pick up any dividend cheques myself (and I don't live too far from Inner City Dublin and I doubt very much you even know anyone from there) but I can't deny that the Celtic Tiger brought with it opportunities for me (through a lot of hard work) that I wouldn't have got in a million years otherwise. There Celtic years were not the doom and gloom years as you seem to be suggesting, all kinds of people benefited whether you like to beleive it or not.

Met a few broads from that area actually.

You are chasing and attacking the little man, while you respect those in suits and ties, even though they are robbing you blind.

drunkdaz

stepbar wrote: »

The UK rate is 84.50 pounds p.w. I would challenge anyone to live on that for a week and have to contribute to rent (actually do the gov in the UK have a rent allowance scheme?).

No it is not. Its currently £60.50pw, so long as you have savings of less then £6000.
You can get rent assistance from your local government, again as long as you have savings of less then £6000.

If you, like me and many of my friends at this stage, had the sense to save while you are working you get punished and told to spend your savings to subsidise the chavs...

Its come up a few times in this thread how the Irish dole isn't that much, how people have come accustomed to certain living standards, how Ireland is so expensive etc, but that cannot account for a difference in the dole of 2 and a half times that in the UK. I challenge anyone to join me in London and say Ireland is more expensive lol.
To show you my situation, which I would say is pretty average, before I can even eat during the week my outgoings are rent £200 (share in a 4 bed house), travelcard £30, Loan £90 (to pay for college fees and expenses in Ireland), Council Tax £10, Utilites £30. So £350 before food....

The point I am making is that me and my unemployed mates have to sit around and make a case for NOT coming home to draw the dole in Dublin where we would be much better off. Ireland is leaving itself open to this, its just too much.

Berty

Mary D wrote: »

all kinds of people benefited whether you like to beleive it or not.

People in social housing benefited by getting gas boilers, new radiators, attic insulation installed in their houses for free.

I use this small example because there are a tiny percent in this situation who have never contributed to society but benefits nonetheless.

Mary D

GarretWilliams wrote: »

Met a few broads from "that area" actually.

You are chasing and attacking the little man, while you respect those in suits and ties, even though they are robbing you blind.

It's interesting how you refer to the Inner City as "that area"!!!

I am chasing and attacking nobody, and I would respect a fair and equal society.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Berty wrote: »

People in social housing benefited by getting gas boilers, new radiators, attic insulation installed in their houses for free.

I use this small example because there are a tiny percent in this situation who have never contributed to society but benefits nonetheless.

Never? Oh? Well, how exactly can you prove this? Not everyone in social housing falls into this category. Keep the generalisations out of here, yea?

GarretWilliams

Mary D wrote: »

It's interesting how you refer to the Inner City as "that area"!!! .

Oh! Don't reflect your prejudices on me.

Mary D wrote: »

I am chasing and attacking nobody, and I would respect a fair and equal society.

Equality? We are not all equal. I can't strike a golf ball like Tiger, does that mean that I should attack him and drag him down to my level? (a solid 4 handicap, incase you care).

Berty

Addisyn Obnoxious Ice-skate wrote: »

Never? Oh? Well, how exactly can you prove this? Not everyone in social housing falls into this category. Keep the generalisations out of here, yea?

Yes I can prove there are a tiny percentage doing this. Even one family unit is a tiny percentage and I am related to a family who are a prime example.

Hardly a generalisation, rather fact.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Berty wrote: »

Yes I can prove there are a tiny percentage doing this. Even one family unit is a tiny percentage and I am related to a family who are a prime example.

Hardly a generalisation, rather fact.

Ah, sorry I misread your post. You are right with the tiny percentage. I know people like this, they refer to themselves as a "social welfare family". Working every so often to build up credits, then back on the dole...

Why do we provide for people for life like this? Perfectly able, healthy people, just too lazy to do anything about it. Is it that they are just used to this way of living?

Lockstep

Mena wrote: »

Have a read of this.

You my friend, are a legend.
I never knew about the Trade Union subscription allowance.

Berty

Addisyn Obnoxious Ice-skate wrote: »

Why do we provide for people for life like this? Perfectly able, healthy people, just too lazy to do anything about it. Is it that they are just used to this way of living?

As Ned Flanders said

"then there are the people who........well........god bless them just dont want to work"

We provide for them because society provides this benefit to the people who need it but there are always a small percentage who will want it and make their lives emulate the conditions of the benefit in order to keep receiving the benefit.