The dole is too much!!

carlybabe1

Degsy wrote: »

Whose fault is it then?
Christmas is 8 months away..plenty of time to find work.
Why should they get a double week anyway?
To spend on drink?

Of course, sure you've just hit the nail on the head there!!! Are you a member of mensa yet??? Everyone on the dole does nothin with thier money except drink!!!! Slash it to f*uck then, and if the dads who have to pay maintenance are left with nothing to contribute towards the cost of santa etc, well sure, they should have got themselves a job,shouldn't they.....:rolleyes:

carlybabe1

carlybabe1 wrote: »

Of course, sure you've just hit the nail on the head there!!! Are you a member of mensa yet??? Everyone on the dole does nothin with thier money except drink!!!! Slash it to f*uck then, and if the dads who have to pay maintenance are left with nothing to contribute towards the cost of santa etc, well sure, they should have got themselves a job,shouldn't they.....:rolleyes:

surely it would be easy to lower dole for single people under 25 and keep it up for parents no?

i was on dole last summer, single under 25 year old with no kids. living the life nd i didn't even have rent allowance.

dr.bollocko

Deleted User wrote: »

surely it would be easy to lower dole for single people under 25 and keep it up for parents no?

i was on dole last summer, single under 25 year old with no kids. living the life nd i didn't even have rent allowance.

How in the hell do people live it up on 200 bucks a week? After rent that is barely enough for a bottle of methylated spirits and 20 packs of koka noodles.

Degsy

dr.bollocko wrote: »

How in the hell do people live it up on 200 bucks a week? After rent that is barely enough for a bottle of methylated spirits and 20 packs of koka noodles.

Nah,off licences are very cheap these days.
For 200 quid you could get 190 cans of beer.

Degsy

carlybabe1 wrote: »

they should have got themselves a job,shouldn't they.....:rolleyes:

Er,yes..yes,they should.

TwoShedsJackson

Confab wrote: »

My brother is on the dole, he was made redundant in November. With just the dole, he can:

-Save for an engagement ring
-Save for two holidays
-Save for a house

And still have money left over to pay his loans. Admittedly he then has almost no money for the week, but the point is made.

Cobblers. If you're brother is saving for that lot on his dole, he's an idiot.

Let's see, assuming he gets the full €204 a week, that's €50 per week per item - we'll call the other €4 a week his 'living' money.

So that's at least six months for a relatively inexpensive ring, a year each for the two holidays, minimum, and of course 17 years for a 40 grand deposit on a 250k house.

AnonoBoy

Degsy wrote: »

For 200 quid you could get 190 cans of beer.

Done.

I'll send one of my illegitimate children over on a stolen moped to pick them straight away.

TwoShedsJackson

dr.bollocko wrote: »

How in the hell do people live it up on 200 bucks a week? After rent that is barely enough for a bottle of methylated spirits and 20 packs of koka noodles.

Rent supplement.

budrick

Degsy wrote: »

Well said.
This year is one christmas they wont have a double week to spend on extra drink and tracksuits though.
About bleeding time too.
Nobody gives me a free weeks wages at xmas because i actually was foolish enough to get a job.

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME !!!

do you have any idea what they have done to those who are actually looking forward to and ACTUALLY need that extra money ,, you do know that shops actually increase the prices on food stuffs etc EVERY YEAR at christmas just to make their profits higher , its sick ,, pure greed is what it is !! what the government has done is to lump those that actually need the money with those who abuse the system , so what if there are scroungers out there , there has to be other ways of sorting things out that do not target those that need the money ,,
what job were you working in that did not give you a xmas bonus , any job that i worked in ,even the low paid ones gave me a xmas bonus even if it was just a small one ,at any rate it helps to actually receive one at that time of the year as a lot of company's tend to send bill's out just after new year to the detriment of those who are lumped with big xmas bill's and find it hard , very hard to cope with having an xmas that will not bankrupt them due to excessive prices at that time of the year ,

as for " Idbatterim "s " sharing the pain " the rich are not paying the biggest or largest amount of tax's , hell they are not paying enough ,, did he even bother to read the papers or look at news about how much of a payoff the so called rich received and how much that they got away with without anyone interfering about tax's and cutbacks and retirement pensions that they would have to pay out of the money that they got ( take a look at what the banks did with the money they received from the government ,part of it went to the management " as a bonus " ) ,, what did the government do about that ?? very little is what !! and what little they did was for show so they could say that they did something ,,

They breed like rats while pilliging the state coffers! for money that was paid in by those who actually go out and do an honest weeks work! and these are the very same people the scroungers begrudge! we are a nation of bleeding hearts! Alot of people here got far too big for their boots and were living a lifestyle that was leagues above where they should be!

:mad:

as for breeding like rat's ,, who the f**k do you think you are talking about you git,, you sound like you are a f*****g NAZI with that talk ,, HITLER and his cronies called the jew's ,black's ,arab's ,indian's and anyone else who was not of their pure german descent rat's and stated them to be a drain on the finance's of their country and that any thing that they owned or possessed to be the property of the state ,,, is this where you are going next with this sewerage you are spouting about ???
you have absolutely no idea how things are going in this country if you can spout that crap and have no concern for anyone other than yourself :mad:

Whose fault is it then?
Christmas is 8 months away..plenty of time to find work.
Why should they get a double week anyway?
To spend on drink?

as for whose fault it is , whose fault do you think it is ? when you are on the dole and have only E204 coming in there is no way that you can save the amount of money needed for extras at xmas ,, and as for why they or we should have a double week is simple ,, to help with paying the extra money out the greedy gits that run the shops up the prices for ,, from the way that you are spouting off at the mouth and digging your hole deeper shows that you have never been on the dole or not on it long term like the majority of those on the dole , you come off as a brainless moron because you have either no experience of the situation or have not bothered to research it and are spouting off non informed, nonsensical and outdated thinking methods ,, you are living in the dark ages ,:mad:

dr.bollocko

budrick wrote: »

ranty rant

Banned

thelordofcheese

Degsy wrote: »

Whose fault is it then?

If your job no longer exists due to cost cutting, it's hardly your fault now is it?

Degsy wrote: »

Christmas is 8 months away..plenty of time to find work.

Confident of that are you? Tell you what, quit your job today and try and find yourself a new one.
I'll just wait right here.

Degsy wrote: »

Why should they get a double week anyway?
To spend on drink?

I see your ban hasn't curbed your enthusiasm for sweeping bullshit statements.

They should because it's christmas. Household budgets always go up in december, above and beyond the normal, it's as predictable as the tides, it stands to reason that the small amount of money that people get weekly should also increase to reflect this.

Instead of your usual whine, A more pertinent question should be this: Why should there be arbitary cuts to the dole when a more sensible course of action would be to adjust and improve means testing sot he money goes to the people who need and deserve it, as opposed to our current flat system

Tigger

dole vs workers

public vs private

`nex t its gonna be male vs female

"i can't believe that more women have lost their jobs then men"

Tigger

thelordofcheese wrote: »

I see your ban hasn't curbed your enthusiasm for sweeping bullshit statements.

Instead of your usual whine,

personal much?

Thrill

The time for cracking down hard on people getting the dole was when times were good and there were lots of jobs. In the times of plenty there was very little reason to be unemployed.That is when people who were eligible for work, but refused to get one, should have had their dole cut down. That's when a thread like this would have made more sense.

When times are bad, like now, with massive unemployment because of lay-offs and hardly any jobs going, is when the dole is needed the most.

Making huge cuts to the dole could have severe negative effects on the economy also. It could cause a lot more unemployment. If people have very little money for the week, then the main focus will be to cut down on everything, meaning less spending.

Less food being bought, less clothes being bought, feck all electronic devices being bought. People on the dole wont be able to afford to run a car, have a phone, buy toys for their kids. No holidays of any kind.

You cut the spending of 372,800 down to the bare minimum to survive and it will affect lots of industries. If a lot of people here get their wish, they could find the end result is that they lose their jobs.

Degsy

thelordofcheese wrote: »

If your job no longer exists due to cost cutting, it's hardly your fault now is it?

No,but you dont just say sit back and accept the rest of your life on the dole do you?

Confident of that are you? Tell you what, quit your job today and try and find yourself a new one.
I'll just wait right here.

Do you even have a job now?

I see your ban hasn't curbed your enthusiasm for sweeping bullshit statements.

Reported

They should because it's christmas. Household budgets always go up in december, above and beyond the normal, it's as predictable as the tides, it stands to reason that the small amount of money that people get weekly should also increase to reflect this

And how is this double expenditure funded?Yes,from the taxpayer.
does the average worker get a double week at christmas?
I certainly dont,no matter how high my bills are.
Maybe christmas shouldnt be hyped as the orgy of consumption that it has become..

Degsy

Thrill wrote: »

The time for cracking down hard on people getting the dole was when times were good and there were lots of jobs. In the times of plenty there was very little reason to be unemployed.That is when people who were eligible for work, but refused to get one, should have had their dole cut down. That's when a thread like this would have made more sense.

When times are bad, like now, with massive unemployment because of lay-offs and hardly any jobs going, is when the dole is needed the most.

Making huge cuts to the dole could have severe negative effects on the economy also. It could cause a lot more unemployment. If people have very little money for the week, then the main focus will be to cut down on everything, meaning less spending.

Less food being bought, less clothes being bought, feck all electronic devices being bought. People on the dole wont be able to afford to run a car, have a phone, buy toys for their kids. No holidays of any kind.

You cut the spending of 372,800 down to the bare minimum to survive and it will affect lots of industries. If a lot of people here get their wish, they could find the end result is that they lose their jobs.

So the economic fate of the country is hanging on the people on the dole and thier spending habits?
NOT the fact that they're costing at least 22 grand per year to the exchequer each?
I've heard everything now.

Executive Steve

sunnyside wrote: »

It's funny, a town/village with a population of 747 people has over 1000 people claiming to be unemployed.

Hardly remarkable given our glorious governments unwillingness to tackle one-off ribbon development in rural ireland, surely?

Not to mention the spate of post office closures...

thelordofcheese

Degsy wrote: »

No,but you dont just say sit back and accept the rest of your life on the dole do you?

And nobody is suggesting you do. You really need to break this horrible mental block you've got going on. Not everybody (and i'd say very few people) are going on the dole with the view to making it an occupation, stop pretending that they are.

Degsy wrote: »

And how is this double expenditure funded?Yes,from the taxpayer.

We all know where the social welfare money comes from degsy, no need to parade it around like you've just hit on something wonderous and insightful.

Degsy wrote: »

does the average worker get a double week at christmas?
I certainly dont,no matter how high my bills are.

You also earn substantially more than the dole (i'd bet), the comparison isn't
really valid now is it?
If it really grinds your gears, get a new job that does give a christmas bonus.

Degsy wrote: »

Maybe christmas shouldnt be hyped as the orgy of consumption that it has become..

Probably not, but that's not really the issue here, is it?

Dudess

My contract is up soon and won't be renewed because of cutbacks in the public sector. Very few jobs out there too and far more competition for the meagre amount that is there - I'll have good grounds for claiming unemployment benefit, perhaps over a long period as it may be quite a while before I get another job. Thus, I am a scrounger.

thelordofcheese

Dudess wrote: »

My contract is up soon and won't be renewed because of cutbacks in the public sector. Very few jobs out there too and far more competition for the meagre amount that is there - I'll have good grounds for claiming unemployment benefit, perhaps over a long period as it may be quite a while before I get another job. Thus, I am a scrounger.

I'll get the lynch mob.

dr.bollocko

dr.bollocko wrote: »

How in the hell do people live it up on 200 bucks a week? After rent that is barely enough for a bottle of methylated spirits and 20 packs of koka noodles.

80 rent in middle of galway, 40 on food, 80 on alcohol. don't smoke so got by jus grand.

prefered by bummy life tho :P now im workin, not havin as much craic and not even savin anythin

Dan Dare

Reductio ad absurdum. It is a nasty trait to kick those who are down. The long term unemployed (and probably unemployable) are one thing, the people who are now losing their jobs are quite another. The lack of empathy displayed by some of above posters is breathtaking. No man is an island and all that.

irish_ninja

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Not everybody (and i'd say very few people) are going on the dole with the view to making it an occupation, stop pretending that they are.

There are alot of people making it an occupation and the amount of fraud!!dont get me started on the amount of people working for cash and getting the dole/family income supplement/etc/etc/etc..
Its not just the dole either its all the schemes associated with it eg. I know a man approaching around 45-50,on the dole all his life with his wife and has two children,one in college and one in secondary school.He gets the dole money,got his house for free,college grant-$5000,medical card-priceless,school bus ticket-$304,free school books,free pension when he 'retires'.thats just off the top of my head.did Imention that his two children are wasters so thats two more on the dole.will I thank him for breeding?
The dole should be cut off after a set number of years is what I think

My name is URL

irish_ninja wrote: »

[...]
The dole should be cut off after a set number of years is what I think[...]

Yeah that's a good idea. It should be halved after 2 years, & fully reviewed by a social worker and either extended or cut off after 4, based on the legitimacy of the claim.

Dudess

We're aware of the scammers - the problem is, people who have lost their jobs (due to the recession) and are having difficulty finding another job (due to the recession) are being lumped in with them.
And things are so bad right now I don't even want to think about how long it could take to get another job - should the dole be cut off for people who still haven't found one after a year despite trying their damnedest? Because it's as bad as that...

Thrill

Degsy wrote: »

So the economic fate of the country is hanging on the people on the dole and thier spending habits?
NOT the fact that they're costing at least 22 grand per year to the exchequer each?
I've heard everything now.

Dont put words in my mouth.

I never said the economic fate of the country is hanging on the spending habits of the unemployed.

fryup wrote: »

is the dole too much??

well considering they only get 50 quid a week up north and in the uk....well then yes its way to much

Yeah, the politicians will always point out something like this to bolster their aims, they'll never mention that Irelands unemployment payments are well behind some countries on mainland Europe.

Link

April 5, 2009

Ireland's unemployment benefits less than mainland Europe

But the Irish weekly payment of €204 is still higher than UK payments of up to €104, writes News Investigations Correspondent John Downes
Unemployment payments to Ireland's jobless are well behind several countries in Scandinavia and mainland Europe but significantly more generous than in Northern Ireland and Britain, a Sunday Tribune survey has found. As the government contemplates whether to freeze or cut social welfare payments in Tuesday's budget, the survey – of benefits in countries all over the world – offers ammunition to people on both sides of the argument.


Those who believe that payments should be cut or held at current levels will be boosted by figures which show the Irish weekly payment of €204 is considerably higher than UK payments which range from £47.91 (€52.70) to £94.95 (€104.53). This is a fact which has been repeatedly pointed out by the minister for social welfare, Mary Hanafin, amid her department's ongoing clampdown on so-called cross-border "welfare tourism".


However, the survey also shows that countries with high standards of living such as Sweden reflect that in rates of unemployment benefit which are higher than Ireland's. The maximum rate of payment in Denmark stands at approximately €472 per week, or almost €1,900 a month. Similarly, the top rate in Germany stands at around €1,800 a month for a single person with children, while in Austria, a single person with no dependents can pull in up to €1,328 a month.


Rates in Spain, Sweden and other countries are also significantly higher than in Ireland. The London Times reported recently that, due to the vagaries of the French system, it is possible to earn up to €6,366.80 a month there, depending on your previous income levels.


At the other end of the scale are countries such as Argentina (€30-€60 monthly), Poland (up to €145 monthly), Latvia (€209 per month on average) and South Africa (€241 max per month).


It is important to note that countries which have lower rates of support also have significantly lower costs of living, something which is often reflected in their minimum wage rates outlined here.


Likewise, eligibility to the various payments varies hugely according to the way individual systems operate.


Unless specifically stated, the rates quoted here generally relate to a single person with no dependents.


This examination is only meant as a guide, and experts point out that it is worth contacting the authorities in the countries in question to find out your specific rights and entitlements.


April 5, 2009

gamester

Degsy wrote: »

So the economic fate of the country is hanging on the people on the dole and thier spending habits?
NOT the fact that they're costing at least 22 grand per year to the exchequer each?
I've heard everything now.

you need to do your maths ,,rates for familys or single are as follows

Rates

The basic Supplementary Welfare Allowance is made up of a personal rate for the applicant and additional amounts for any adult dependant and/or child dependant(s). A child dependant is a person under the age of 18 who lives with you and depends on you for financial support. If you have been getting SWA for at least 27 weeks, the age limit is 22 for a child dependant in full-time education or up to the end of the academic year after their 22nd birthday.

Weekly rates of payment for 2009 are:

Applicant €204.30
Qualified adult €135.60
Each qualified child €26

here's the link to veiw

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Schemes/SupplementaryWelfareAllowance/Pages/BasicSupplementaryWelfareAllowance.aspx

if you want to maths (rounded out,minus cents),,
single person = 205 * 52 = 10,600
1 child family = 370 * 52 = 19,240
2 child family = 392 * 52 = 20,330

as you see its not 22,000 but if you want to talk economics multiply end numbers by 372,800 (yes ,i did see the time's report and it is an estimate and like all estimates the government does it is too high)to see some big numbers as follows :

10,600 * 372,800 = 3,951,680,000
19,240 * 372,800 = 7,172,672,000
20,330 * 372,800 = 7,579,024,000

do you have any idea what impact the loss of that kind of money would do to the already weak economy , money has to be kept circulating in order for the economy to stay afloat and yes such a loss of monies that large would cause an economic disaster as the above numbers are not the total amount that the government spends to keep the poor and out of work fed , the total amount is somewhere near 31 billion if memory serves . our economy works on an supply and demand prinicple and if the poor and unemployed cannot afford to buy products it means that more layoffs will occour which will add strain to the government coffers which means they have to pay out more to the added numbers on the dole , it is a very vicious circle but it boils down to this , in order to make money you have to spend money ,not hoard it .
the population of this country is at what ? 5 million approx which means that the unemployed ,old and poor of this country is about what ? 13% to 15% of the population . do you wish for them to starve ?
you are being somewhat shortsighted if you or anyone else cannot see that in order for a country to survive it's economy must be able to help and support the poorer and unemployed sectors of it's population and to do so money must circulate .

maninasia

Yeah the money circulates, just like water going down the hole in the bathtub as it gets less and less and more and more people claim from a smaller pot. The money (water) has to be replenished from somewhere.

The best thing to do is cut dole over period of 1-2 years and two years later reduce initial dole payments in half. Reduce minimum wage but only slightly so as to encourage export business so we can get income coming into the country again while at the same time making it attractive enough to work (push/pull factors).

With a bit of pushing (get off your comfortable arse!) and a bit of pulling (working is not such a bad deal now and at least with a job I've got opportunities), the situation will resolve itself.

javaboy

gamester wrote: »

you need to do your maths ,,rates for familys or single are as follows ........

Hi budrick. Bye budrick.

spank_inferno

gamester wrote: »

you need to do your maths ,,rates for familys or single are as follows



here's the link to veiw

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Schemes/SupplementaryWelfareAllowance/Pages/BasicSupplementaryWelfareAllowance.aspx

if you want to maths (rounded out,minus cents),,
single person = 205 * 52 = 10,600
1 child family = 370 * 52 = 19,240
2 child family = 392 * 52 = 20,330

as you see its not 22,000 but if you want to talk economics multiply end numbers by 372,800 (yes ,i did see the time's report and it is an estimate and like all estimates the government does it is too high)to see some big numbers as follows :

10,600 * 372,800 = 3,951,680,000
19,240 * 372,800 = 7,172,672,000
20,330 * 372,800 = 7,579,024,000

do you have any idea what impact the loss of that kind of money would do to the already weak economy , money has to be kept circulating in order for the economy to stay afloat and yes such a loss of monies that large would cause an economic disaster as the above numbers are not the total amount that the government spends to keep the poor and out of work fed , the total amount is somewhere near 31 billion if memory serves . our economy works on an supply and demand prinicple and if the poor and unemployed cannot afford to buy products it means that more layoffs will occour which will add strain to the government coffers which means they have to pay out more to the added numbers on the dole , it is a very vicious circle but it boils down to this , in order to make money you have to spend money ,not hoard it .
the population of this country is at what ? 5 million approx which means that the unemployed ,old and poor of this country is about what ? 13% to 15% of the population . do you wish for them to starve ?
you are being somewhat shortsighted if you or anyone else cannot see that in order for a country to survive it's economy must be able to help and support the poorer and unemployed sectors of it's population and to do so money must circulate .

If social welfare monies are cut, those savings arent "lost" to the economy.
They are distriubted in different ways. Either in different government spending or through direct consumer expenditure via lower tax payers to those that actualy do pay tax.

Is social welfare in ireland too high?
The answer is probably yes & I grew up in a family on social welfare.
(back in the 80's/90's when it was a family of 5 on £147 punts a week & some butter vouchers

The systems in Europe are of course far more progressive.
Having higher dole payments based on a previously higher income makes a lot of sence & if implemented here would make me feel a bit better about paying PRSI once I knew I would get it back if I lost my job.
Irelands system of "same rate for all" only leads to resentment amongst those who can see other citizens screwing the system.

Take a drive around your local council estates, The ubiquitous presence of sky digital dishes may open your eyes some