The dole is too much!!

spank_inferno

and I forgot to mention:

Based on the governments own figures, social welfare spending will account for 61% of all government revenues for 2009

This is based on a projected income of 34billion and social welfare amounting to 21 billion for 09'. (March figures that may get worse as more are unemployed and the self employed tax returns in october nose-dive)


That ratio seems a tad high!

motherfunker

I worked 23 hours last week and got €207 for it, that was for 5 hours a day for 5 days in a bloody hard job. Most people on the dole probably got more than me for sitting on their fat arse doing fcuk all. If this country goes bankrupt which there is a very good chance it will these bums will have no dole at all, lets see what they do then.
If the country had a bit of money they should introduce a system like Holland where if you get laid off you get 2/3 of your wages for a certain amount of time, then a bit less and a bit less and so on(dont quote me on the figures). This would allow the recently unemployed to adjust their lives to less money and not rob them of their dignity overnight.
Cut the dole to bums and single mothers, why anybody deserves to live like a queen just becuase they got knocked up is beyond me. Stick them in a dormitory with 20 other single mums and their screaming babies and it might not be such an attractive position to get into.

thelordofcheese

irish_ninja wrote: »

There are alot of people making it an occupation and the amount of fraud!!dont get me started on the amount of people working for cash and getting the dole/family income supplement/etc/etc/etc..

Y'know, i'm starting to think these tales of rampant welfare abuse are convient urban myths. Mainly because of the following.

irish_ninja wrote: »

Its not just the dole either its all the schemes associated with it eg. I know a man approaching around 45-50,on the dole all his life with his wife and has two children,one in college and one in secondary school.He gets the dole money,got his house for free,college grant-$5000,medical card-priceless,school bus ticket-$304,free school books,free pension when he 'retires'.thats just off the top of my head.did Imention that his two children are wasters so thats two more on the dole.will I thank him for breeding?
The dole should be cut off after a set number of years is what I think

If you truely suspect him of fraud, why don't you report him to the social welfare office instead of posting on boards of all places?
I don't think this man exists at all, i think you invented him to back up your original assertion.

You are making all this up and i claim my five pounds.

97i9y3941

suprised we havent had this in ireland yet,reminds me of some people around town

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/5004431/Family-who-are-too-fat-to-work-say-22000-worth-of-benefits-is-not-enough.html

Vim Fuego

Jesus Christ, what a f**king joke that is. You're right, I'm surprised we haven't seen that sort of behaviour here.

RATM

New report out today saying that the dole is too much and having it that way affects people's motivation to go back to work.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dole-is-too-generous-says-top-jobs-expert-1724039.html

OUR generous social welfare system is encouraging more people to stay on the dole, a major new report warns.

And our current system risks prolonging high levels of unemployment after economic recovery, a major conference organised by the Government's economic think-tank will hear today.

The small gap between social welfare payments and declining wage levels is cited as the key reason for more people staying longer on the dole.

The warning, which stops short of calling for cuts in welfare benefits, comes as new figures confirmed dole queues have risen to 386,000 -- almost doubling in a year.

It will be outlined to the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI) today in a special OECD report on labour policy in Ireland.

Its researcher David Grubb warns that a relatively high proportion of the working-age population is claiming social welfare. Welfare benefits rose rapidly during the boom. Mr Grubb says OECD research shows that, unless other measures are taken, higher benefits increase the rise in unemployment during a downturn.

"As the economy recovers, unemployment falls only slowly and long-term unemployment is more persistent," the research finds.

If benefits are not to be cut, the OECD argues that more needs to be done to assist benefit recipients to secure employment. This could be a version of the Danish model where benefits are cut or removed unless recipients take part in training or accept a job offer.

Mr Benevolent

unless other measures are taken, higher benefits increase the rise in unemployment during a downturn.

Seems reasonable to me.

AnonoBoy

RATM wrote: »

New report out today saying that the dole is too much and having it that way affects people's motivation to go back to work.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dole-is-too-generous-says-top-jobs-expert-1724039.html

Government have already announced that they will be cutting the dole at the end of the year.

Degsy

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Y'know, i'm starting to think these tales of rampant welfare abuse are convient urban myths. Mainly because of the following.



If you truely suspect him of fraud, why don't you report him to the social welfare office instead of posting on boards of all places?
I don't think this man exists at all, i think you invented him to back up your original assertion.

You are making all this up and i claim my five pounds.

You're trolling as usual.
Anybody who doubts the reality of welfare fraud either has something wrong with them or they're on the take themselves.

drunkmonkey

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Government have already announced that they will be cutting the dole at the end of the year.

If there going to do this I think they also need to drop the minimum wage...

SV

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If there going to do this I think they also need to drop the minimum wage...

Why?
To make it equally as unappealing to get a job?

Highsider

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Y'know, i'm starting to think these tales of rampant welfare abuse are convient urban myths. Mainly because of the following.



If you truely suspect him of fraud, why don't you report him to the social welfare office instead of posting on boards of all places?
I don't think this man exists at all, i think you invented him to back up your original assertion.

You are making all this up and i claim my five pounds.

He may or may not be making it up but i can guarantee this sort of behaviour goes on all the time. I know a bloke who's in his mid 20's and has never worked a single day in his whole life. Collects his dole every single week without a problem.Think about that. He has NEVER worked,even throughout the years when employers where crying out for people.

drunkmonkey

SV wrote: »

Why?
To make it equally as unappealing to get a job?

No to make it more appealing to employ someone (unskilled)

97i9y3941

they would want start cutting dole first to make work more attrative,the finance ministers taxing on min wage workers*those on 3 day week*,makes them less off than those on dole

podge3

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Government have already announced that they will be cutting the dole at the end of the year.

They need to restructure the dole payments completely - make it a sliding scale.

The newly unemployed should get the most - maybe even more than the current €204 a week. The knacks/chavs/long term spongers should get food stamps that can be exchanged in supermarkets. Life on the dole should not be a career choice.

Kerikosan

Thats a great Idea, Food Stamps & A bill Card or sumthing along the lines where they Dont get cash in hand But A dole card with points on it- You Can only pay bill with etc.. And or food stamps..

Would stop the wastes of life sucking Cash..

97i9y3941

i dont think theres much you can do at this stage,there are genenuie people seeking work,like for instance a galway shoe shop,60 vacancies,1000 people applyied,so there are people looking,and if you have wife and kids along with a mortgage €200 each is barely enough for anything given food,elect,heating.maybe cut it for those that live at home with parents still, and dont have any wife,kids etc

thelordofcheese

Degsy wrote: »

You're trolling as usual.
Anybody who doubts the reality of welfare fraud either has something wrong with them or they're on the take themselves.

trolling? Change the record degsy, it's becoming painful to listen to you bleat about imagined trolling. Granted it's painful to listen to you in general, but this paticular fascination of yours is especially trying.


And i doubt anyone who says "i know a guy on the take and he's getting X,Y and Z" mainly because if this kind of fraud is as prevalant as you imagine it to be then why are people posting here instead of to the Dept. of Social welfare?

Because they're full of shit, that's why, but i suppose it helps to add a nice piece of fiction to make the rest of the post seem justified. Kind of like using bright colours and simple shapes to entertain children.

Dob74

RATM wrote: »

New report out today saying that the dole is too much and having it that way affects people's motivation to go back to work.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dole-is-too-generous-says-top-jobs-expert-1724039.html

That's a bit rich coming from the indo. Whose parent company will need to bailed out by DinnyOB and Sir Anto.
No doubt, through Aib & Boi who recieved a dole payment of 7 billion.

javaboy

Degsy wrote: »

You're trolling as usual.
Anybody who doubts the reality of welfare fraud either has something wrong with them or they're on the take themselves.

Why do people who think there's fraud trolling going on post about it in AH instead of reporting it to the proper authorities?

thelordofcheese wrote: »

trolling? Change the record degsy, it's becoming painful to listen to you bleat about imagined trolling. Granted it's painful to listen to you in general, but this paticular fascination of yours is especially trying.

Be nice.

podge3

Fred83 wrote: »

i dont think theres much you can do at this stage,there are genenuie people seeking work,like for instance a galway shoe shop,60 vacancies,1000 people applyied,so there are people looking,and if you have wife and kids along with a mortgage €200 each is barely enough for anything given food,elect,heating.maybe cut it for those that live at home with parents still, and dont have any wife,kids etc

I don't think its too late at all - if there was a political will to do it.

The newly unemployed need help - cash in hand and maybe help with mortgage payments etc. This should last for a few years and then reduce on a sliding scale. After, say, 5 years most of the cash payments payments are are replaced with foodstamps/dole card.

Of course this will never happen while any of the current political parties are in power. We seem to be heading for some kind of communist/socialist scenario where everyone - whether at work/looking for work or those who choose to sponge - will effectively get paid the same.

Degsy

thelordofcheese wrote: »

trolling? Change the record degsy, it's becoming painful to listen to you bleat about imagined trolling. Granted it's painful to listen to you in general, but this paticular fascination of yours is especially trying.

What about my problem with able-bodied people scrounging the dole?
What is it,60% of government spending at the moment.
The (working) people in the Public Sector have taken thier hit i reckon the free-ride merchants will be next.
Maybe if they spent less tim eon the internet whinging and more time looking for work they'd be slightly more productive..

Degsy

podge3 wrote: »

I don't think its too late at all - if there was a political will to do it.

The newly unemployed need help - cash in hand and maybe help with mortgage payments etc. This should last for a few years and then reduce on a sliding scale. After, say, 5 years most of the cash payments payments are are replaced with foodstamps/dole card.

5 years?

They should be allowed to scrounge for 5 years?:rolleyes:

No siree,the dole is costing the economy far too much money as it is.
One only had to see the amount of foreign people in that recent queue for centra jobs to see how willing irish people are to sit back and do nothing.

chrism2007

would i be right in saying if your under 25 in the UK, you get £50 ?

podge3

Degsy wrote: »

5 years?

They should be allowed to scrounge for 5 years?:rolleyes:

There are now almost two hundred thousand on the dole that were working 12 months ago. These people need help and it will probably be at least 5 years (maybe longer) before they all find work again.

The 150,000 or so that have been sponging through the good times should have their dole cut immediately and replaced by the aforementioned foodstamps/dole card.

It won't happen of course.

procure11

janullrich wrote: »

Well personally I will have to go on the dole this week and I am not looking forward to it one bit. However after been let go last week I am entitled to it and I don't think what you get is too much. I will still look for a job but chances are u will need to set up ur own business or emigrate (god knows where though) However the government should do more to get lazy layabouts off their backsides and look for jobs somewhere. I know a guy who I used to live with who spent his dole money on alcohol and nothing much else. He did a bit of caddie work. These people are the ones where dole money is too much and who should be made to suffer by it being scraped.

Also we have these so called refugees from countries like Nigeria who while some work are the worst welfare scrougers going. These are the ones who should get no money at all. The problem with Ireland is that we are so generous to these people when what we should be doing is deporting them.

I completely disagree with you when you generalise and say refugees from countries like Nigeria.It is very convenient for a lot of people to blame Nigerians for their economic woes and call them almost every evil name under the sun because they basically do not have a voice in Ireland,you have to realise there are a lot of Nigerians working in Ireland(a lot of my friends and myself included) and paying taxes to the government's cuffers.A lot of nigerians I know are in school studying for their masters and phds in this country and not getting any government assistance.

I have two sibblings studying in Ireland and their fees paid by my family in Nigeria with no government support and their fees are triple ( sometimes quadriple that )of Irish/eu students and I am sure that there loads of others.I am just tired of some people having no respect of nigerians as human beings (they are soft targets-you can come on boards.ie and say whatever you like without no repercussions),admittedly there are some Nigerians out that take advantage of the system but equally there are lots of Irish and eastern europeans,british etc that do worse.It is easier for an european to cheat the system in Ireland than non eu nationals( i never hear of any other than Nigerians-we have americans,australians,ghanians,zimababweans,etc) because of political constraints.If we are going to have an arguement about PEOPLE abusing the welfare system,there should not be any fingerpointing towards a particular set of people-

As the poster would be aware ,most defaulters would most likely irish themselves and other EU nationals(who can keep an address here and be physically resident elsewhere) and claim for benfits they would otherwise not be entitled to....Just my 10 cents

chopperbyrne

Degsy wrote: »

5 years?

They should be allowed to scrounge for 5 years?:rolleyes:

No siree,the dole is costing the economy far too much money as it is.
One only had to see the amount of foreign people in that recent queue for centra jobs to see how willing irish people are to sit back and do nothing.

I'm on the dole.

I am not scrounging.

I apply for as many jobs as I can every day.

While I was working I paid my taxes just like everybody else, yet they still saw fit to only give me €160.10 a week.

I'm sure when you find yourself out of work you won't sign on and "scrounge" like everyone else.

Novella

The dole, in general, is too high. However, for people who have been working for years, always paying their taxes etc, and then lose their job or whatever, I think it's only fair that get money to live on.
I think the amount given to people should be based on circumstances. For instance, people who just couldn't be bothered working, in my opinion deserve nothing. Obviously, they're still going to get some sort of allowance but really it should only be enough to cover bare essentials.

thelordofcheese

Degsy wrote: »

What about my problem with able-bodied people scrounging the dole?
What is it,60% of government spending at the moment.
The (working) people in the Public Sector have taken thier hit i reckon the free-ride merchants will be next.

once again, it's your bizzare habit of insisiting that everyone on the dole is a 'scrounger' that makes me wonder if all your protestations of trolling are just a case of the lady protesting a bit too much.
Sadly, i know you're deadly serious.

Degsy wrote: »

Maybe if they spent less time on the internet whinging and more time looking for work they'd be slightly more productive..

The irony is delicious.....

Degsy

thelordofcheese wrote: »

once again, it's your bizzare habit of insisiting that everyone on the dole is a 'scrounger' that makes me wonder if all your protestations of trolling are just a case of the lady protesting a bit too much.
Sadly, i know you're deadly serious



The irony is delicious.....

How come?
I've noticed a massive increase in the amount of taxes i've had to pay lately in order that people can get free money.
I sympathise enormously with people who have worked for ever and suddenly find themselves redundent but there are a lot of people who are quite happy to sit back and accept the handouts untill somebody offers them the easy-going job they feel they're entitled to.
There are people on here and elsewher who HAVNT been working very long,who are young and able bodied suddenly wracked with a from of lazy fatalism.."there's no jobs in IT,i'm NOT working in a pub etc" and its these,as well as the professional dole scroungers that i have a problem with.
There are people talking about being on the dole for two years or more until "companies start hiring"..what sort of attitude is that?
What happened to people's desire to help themselves?
I've said this before but a lot of people in this country have no idea how to help themselves as they've had things too bleeding easy,school to college to a job in IT and on to the dole..no life experience and no ambition.