The dole is too much!!

ntlbell

cornbb wrote: »

There's so much wrong with your point of view I don't even know where to start.


Has it occurred to you that by putting people on the dole doing work in schools, hospitals or whatever, you would be taking the jobs away from those who are employed to make toast in the schools and hospitals? You do realise that people are already paid to sweep roads etc and that by putting jobseekers doing their work, you would be putting them out of a job?

There is only so much volunteer work etc going around. Implementing what you were talking about would result in people being given completely pointless tasks, just to satisfy a completely outdated notion that people should not be idle, at any cost. During the great famine, pointless work schemes were put together to justify people receiving famine relief, people just breaking stones for the sake of it, resulting in roads to nowhere. You're basically talking about doing the same thing, applying a drastically failed 19th century idea to a new problem. Nice one.

Not doing jobs for the sake of it. not replacing someone elses jobs.

Adding to the public work force for a few days of week untill they get a job.

I hardly see sending 15 people out to the simon community for 3 days of the week to help the homeless or give out some food a pointless task

There is a mountain of very important work that could be done that we can't afford to pay out for but we have 300k people sitting around doing nothing.

It's not about replacing someone else's jobs or removing one it's adding something of value that we're paying for.

filling the poxy pot holes is another one! you can never have enough pot hole fillers trust me.

foxshooter243

Im fifty years of age, I have worked part time whilst at school since the age of thirteen, i left school after the leaving cert and worked full time for the next thirty three years, I paid my mortgage through the high interest rate crisis and was working 60 hours a week and paying excessive taxes to the state , i paid more in taxes per week back then than one recieves on the dole today...i paid voluntary health insurance and never had any state help in my lifetime.Roll forward to today, the company i worked for has pulled out of the country, the area im in has a high unemployment level due to its geographic location, jobs are being shed all around me.
Luckily i was able to pay off my mortgage early and am debt free , totally,
i owe no one a penny, now i take back something from the state in the form of unemployment benefit..do you think i feel belittled> no way!!
Im sick of people posting about people on the dole, many people in my area are now on the dole, these are all people with a lifetime of work behind them...and there will be more people signing on, you might just find yourselves in the same queue someday...judge not!!

ntlbell

the bolt wrote: »

didnt think you got any help untill you were on the dole for 6 mts

The length of time you have to be unemployed I'm not sure about.

but there is support there.

wolfpawnat

Since I was a student until recently (I plan to continue with my study at the beginning of 2010 again) and have to take time off to have a baby and since I am living with my bf (who is also a student) and that means I don't qualify for loan parents and childrens allowance does not cover all the babys expenses and I dont get rent allowence I need every cent of the dole.

I am not going to be on it long term but not being entitled to maternity benefits of any other kind means I really am not able to survive without it, but people who stay on it for ages because they are too lazy to get a job drive me crazy.

Nehaxak

HashSlinging wrote: »

Another Nigerian, living in Birmingham, had been claiming €2,240 a month in benefits, although he was stated to have left the country in 2005.

Can someone explain to me how you can claim 2240 per month.

Rent/Mortgage relief mostly but depending on the month (4 or 5 weeks) he could've been getting around 1,200 from the dole per month and the rest then made up from rent relief. He was renting out the place he was supposed to be getting rent support on, so that rent he got from his tenants (sub letting) was paying off the actual rent required while the state still paid him the rent for the place they thought he was still living in.

Nehaxak

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Since I was a student until recently (I plan to continue with my study at the beginning of 2010 again) and have to take time off to have a baby and since I am living with my bf (who is also a student) and that means I don't qualify for loan parents and childrens allowance does not cover all the babys expenses and I dont get rent allowence I need every cent of the dole.

I am not going to be on it long term but not being entitled to maternity benefits of any other kind means I really am not able to survive without it, but people who stay on it for ages because they are too lazy to get a job drive me crazy.

If I remember correctly, the proposed changes to the law to give cohabiting couples (including same sex couples) the same benefits as married couples would fix the problem with your scenario. At this moment in time though you've little options open to you but would suggest at least talking with the Citizens information people to get some guidance on what exactly you are entitled too, especially the medical card if you don't already have it.

Boskowski

foxshooter243 wrote: »

Im sick of people posting about people on the dole, many people in my area are now on the dole, these are all people with a lifetime of work behind them...and there will be more people signing on, you might just find yourselves in the same queue someday...judge not!!

Nobody's judging, and you're sure very unfortunate with what happened to you.
But at the same time - and I'm not in any way suggesting you're doing that - the dole is still just meant to be temporary while you found a new job. It's not like early retirement money. And you will agree that while you and people in your situation are genuine there is a lot og people out there claiming exactly what you're rightfully claiming while they haven't worked a single day in their lives.

wolfpawnat

Nehaxak wrote: »

If I remember correctly, the proposed changes to the law to give cohabiting couples (including same sex couples) the same benefits as married couples would fix the problem with your scenario. At this moment in time though you've little options open to you but would suggest at least talking with the Citizens information people to get some guidance on what exactly you are entitled too, especially the medical card if you don't already have it.

Thank you for the info, but I went and checked, I was told I could apply for the med card (hope they have started processing it) and get the dole, since I am with my OH I dont get rent allowance so still have to fork out for rent too. I dont mind but that only gives me €100 to feed me, baby and keep it in nappys, clothes, etc.

so as someone depending on the dole for a little while, no I do not believe it is too much! I do plan on coming off it again asap though:)

Idbatterim

was reading recently that one or two of the us states were not going to pay out child support for any more than 2 kids recently. Now adays other than the "working class" who would it benefit over here anyway! The whole issue is so complex. People may have sympathy for those on the dole, and there are some sad cases, but where is the sympathy for those who are working to pay these taxes! who are working their ass off just to get by? I do agree with a welfare system, but it is very open for abuse here! the way things are at the moment with the finances, the dole may have to be cut! i mean if the government are about to wield the axe on their beloved civil service how safe is anything? safe as houses! hah!

Nehaxak

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Thank you for the info, but I went and checked, I was told I could apply for the med card (hope they have started processing it) and get the dole, since I am with my OH I dont get rent allowance so still have to fork out for rent too. I dont mind but that only gives me €100 to feed me, baby and keep it in nappys, clothes, etc.

so as someone depending on the dole for a little while, no I do not believe it is too much! I do plan on coming off it again asap though:)

I still think you're entitled to rent allowance, I'd push through the application anyway as they do all they can to put you off before you've even applied.

When you do get a job, don't forget to claim the tax break for having a child, it equals a doubling of your yearly tax free allowance so you end up paying considerably less tax, which does help. Your other half can also claim that tax allowance, whether you are married or not.

badabinbadaboom

On the subject of having people do some work for the dole, I think people who are genuinely on the dole and cannot find work would be thankful to have something worth getting out of bed for. I know looking for a job should occupy us but why get up early when you do it all online now?
Currently un-employed and would love a bit of pressure in my life.
I signed on last january and started looking for work or a course to do in september when I got excepted onto a course I was told that, in order to get any assistance on the course I would have to be signing on for X months. So stopped looking for work, it was grand for about a week having an excuse to do nothing but I couldnt stand it, like I said if someone told me then that in order to recieve Jobseekers benefit I had to do some work I would have been over the moon.
Now im just bored.

green123

HashSlinging wrote: »

Another Nigerian, living in Birmingham, had been claiming €2,240 a month in benefits, although he was stated to have left the country in 2005.

Can someone explain to me how you can claim 2240 per month.

no, i cant explain it, but a nigerian probably can

TwoShedsJackson

Just because your mate's a feckless waster it doesn't automatically make the dole too high.

People have been working and paying into the PRSI system for years, decades, and if they should be unlucky and lose their job and have to sign on, they are entitled to it.

But there's always some waster scumbag element that will abuse anything that's given out for free, just because those bottom feeders are abusing it, doesn't mean deserving people should be denied a payment which in this day and age won't go too far in Ireland.

SV

green123 wrote: »

no, i cant explain it, but a nigerian probably can

wtf kind of a reply is that?

Nehaxak

Not sure if it is still in operation, or in operation under another guise but about ten years ago if you were long term unemployed you could apply for a scheme implemented and part funded by Norfa Smurfit (of the smurfit group).

It allowed you to setup a business, sole trader or better and provided support, training, tax incentives, help with your accounts etc., great scheme it was.
What it also did though was provide you with your full dole for the first year, 75% for the second year, 50% for the third year, 25% for the fourth and from thereon you were on your own.

You had nothing to lose for your first year and at any stage during those four years you could go back on the dole, as you were, no changes.

What it did though was create entrepreneurship (sp?) and at the very least give long term unemployed people the ability to go out and try create a business or even just sell their services (self employed) as a contractor or whatever. You had nothing to lose but everything to gain.

There were support structures, funding, grants and so on available for businesses that started to look promising.
It could've and would've done a lot better with more funding and support structures in place but something like that could equally be done now and some of the people unemplyed now that have a lot of business experience would be well placed to work within such a unit to help guide other self employed or startup businesses.

There's always a market for something (whatever it is) out there, it's just a matter or exploiting that market. If you've nothing to lose for the first year and little to lose for the next 3 years after, honestly, it's a great incentive for some people. Not for everyone for sure, but for others it gives them a lot of confidence to at least try and help themselves get out and make something of themselves.

ntlbell

badabinbadaboom wrote: »

On the subject of having people do some work for the dole, I think people who are genuinely on the dole and cannot find work would be thankful to have something worth getting out of bed for. I know looking for a job should occupy us but why get up early when you do it all online now?
Currently un-employed and would love a bit of pressure in my life.
I signed on last january and started looking for work or a course to do in september when I got excepted onto a course I was told that, in order to get any assistance on the course I would have to be signing on for X months. So stopped looking for work, it was grand for about a week having an excuse to do nothing but I couldnt stand it, like I said if someone told me then that in order to recieve Jobseekers benefit I had to do some work I would have been over the moon.
Now im just bored.

Absolutely,

I work in IT and could soon find myself on the scrap heap and while on the dole I will be offering my "services" to the local community while I'm out of work be it training people who have been recently made unemployed or doing a few hours with early school leavers in the local youth centre's etc

regardless of your profession you can put the time to some use in your local community it will also keep you getting out of bed in the morning and out meeting talking to people instead of sulking about and dribbling about the current state of affairs.

People need to pull their fingers out of the butthole and do something.

Twin-go

Irishcrx wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks the dole is far too high in this country, why would anyone want to get a job even if there was any. I have a mate I live it and he has more bloody money than I do and I work 45 hours a week. He has his rent payed for him by the government and pays 30 euro a month himself, and then the extra 200 a week as normal and this is without lifting a finger all he does all day is sleep, eat, smoke and eat and complain about being busy if he has to walk 5 mins to the shop at some point in the next 4 hours.

Do you think the government will be forced to cut the dole payments if the national debt and unemployment keeps rising?

I think after 2 months of unemployment it should start to decrease by 5%-10% per month. The Unemployed should then be given the chance to top-up their unemployment benifit with part-time community service work. Cleaning up litter on the streets, cleaning government buildings working with community groups. They would have to be assessed for suitability (health and background checks etc.) but it will give them a sence of purpose and maybe open some doors back into the workforce.

Irishcrx

I agree with most on here that believe there should be some sort of community service that comes with it, it will help the people help each other, help the needed and give modivation to those on the dole.

Something like if your on the dole for X ammount of time you have to either

A - Provide up to date statements and proof that you are activly looking for work and cannot find it.

Or

B - 20 hours a week community service to earn the money.

This will also provide jobs for those who look after the monitering of this system and inforcing it. I think it makes sence.

Nehaxak

Irishcrx wrote: »

I agree with most on here that believe there should be some sort of community service that comes with it, it will help the people help each other, help the needed and give modivation to those on the dole.

Something like if your on the dole for X ammount of time you have to either

A - Provide up to date statements and proof that you are activly looking for work and cannot find it.

Or

B - 20 hours a week community service to earn the money.

This will also provide jobs for those who look after the monitering of this system and inforcing it. I think it makes sence.

Sentenced to 20 hours English language classes :eek:

Bottle_of_Smoke

I don't think it'l be going up much higher. THey'll have to but a stop on minimum wage so they could hardly increase dole payments if minimum wage wasn't going up.

Dole here E204, UK around £45. Minimum wage here E8.65, in UK £5.73.... something's gotta give.

Nehaxak

Yeah but the cost of living here, even just for basic food items, is an awful lot more than in the UK.

People in general would be fine with taking paycuts so long as the actual cost of living also dropped.
Still don't think the dole should be dropped in amount until at least the cost of living has dropped significantly.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Irishcrx wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks the dole is far too high in this country, why would anyone want to get a job even if there was any. I have a mate I live it and he has more bloody money than I do and I work 45 hours a week. He has his rent payed for him by the government and pays 30 euro a month himself, and then the extra 200 a week as normal and this is without lifting a finger all he does all day is sleep, eat, smoke and eat and complain about being busy if he has to walk 5 mins to the shop at some point in the next 4 hours.

Do you think the government will be forced to cut the dole payments if the national debt and unemployment keeps rising?

You are basing your argument/rant on the fact that ONE of your mates is like this? You know, I hope you lose your job really soon, a bit harsh but it will give you a right slap in the face. No the dole is not too high, taking into account living expenses and all that. It's not cheap. Oh and your mate paying 30 euro a month on rent is complete bull crap. The government do not subsidise that much for rent. Your friend must be on DA allowance too or something that you do not know about.

Dearg81

Do they still do a means test for everyone applying for the dole?

I got means tested after i finished college 3 years ago and ended up getting only €50 cos i was living at home. I agree that €200 is too much for some people. It definitely made me try harder to get a job anyway.

not yet

Nehaxak wrote: »

Sentenced to 20 hours English language classes :eek:

Ah...!! always a smart arse to be found. Hope you never mis-spell a word mister fcuking clever clogs.

Irishcrx

Addisyn Obnoxious Ice-skate wrote: »

You are basing your argument/rant on the fact that ONE of your mates is like this? You know, I hope you lose your job really soon, a bit harsh but it will give you a right slap in the face. No the dole is not too high, taking into account living expenses and all that. It's not cheap. Oh and your mate paying 30 euro a month on rent is complete bull crap. The government do not subsidise that much for rent. Your friend must be on DA allowance too or something that you do not know about.

Now hang on a second, I didn't say that it was too high for some people. I'm saying the system is not handled right. Ok, say I loose my job tomorrow and I've been working all my life I have a mortgage to pay, car loan, bills etc etc and all I'll get is 200 a month...Hardly enough I'll loose my house in no time and end up in big financial trouble.

Now take Joe soap never worked a day in his life and is renting a room or house, gets his rent paid and all his benefits. 200 a week generally is enough for these people, to get there hash/weed and cans everyday.

What I am saying is some people need more and others need less and it's not one bit fair on the people who are genuinely struggling to keep their homes and find work.

Nehaxak

not yet wrote: »

Ah...!! always a smart arse to be found. Hope you never mis-spell a word mister fcuking clever clogs.

Not normally a grammar nazi but couldn't resist that one.
Cotton picking, shoe shining, English language teachers will be found on every street corner, pushing their oh so terribly delightful wares...

not yet

Yeah Yeah.........By the way, what is wrong with cotton picking ? it's a very nobel profession....

Terry

not yet wrote: »

Ah...!! always a smart arse to be found. Hope you never mis-spell a word mister fcuking clever clogs.

Careful now.

Irishcrx

Irishcrx wrote: »

Now take Joe soap never worked a day in his life and is renting a room or house, gets his rent paid and all his benefits. 200 a week generally is enough for these people, to get there hash/weed and cans everyday.

Have you considered giving your mate a kick the the ars and telling him to at least look for a job. The taxes that are reducing your income are funding his existence and there are people out there now with all the redundancies etc that need that money a lot more than he does.

Ogham

€200 is too much for asingle 18 yr old school leaver - it's too tempting to rent a room stay on the dole. You would need to work abut 30 hours in a min wage job to earn enough to just match the dole and any rent payments you get. I can see why people wouldn't be bothered - and just do a few cash jobs on the side.
My son is probably going to be claiming soon - but I was shocked when I found out how much it was. It is not encouragement to find work - it is more like the other way round. Encouragement to do nothing. What a country!