The dole is too much!!

Dob74

Fred83 wrote: »

ive been hearing that too alr,its mainly down to fact that during the boom,the likes of builders/carpenters/plasters they did not contribute anything to the state coffers during the boom,so they are not getting a free handout now,unlike a person who worked for them and paid their tax

I am a carpenter, i didnt know I dont have to pay tax.
When people say builders what do they mean? General contractor, sub contractor, tradesman, General operative, Labourer... what?

alrilad

Ithink the term builders refers to self employed builders be that contractors or sub contractors... thats just my take on it. Open to correction

CamperMan

someone I know on the dole has just come back from a shopping trip to New York :mad:

it's obvious the dole pays out to much money if the dole bums can afford luxuries like this..

deadhead13

CamperMan wrote: »

someone I know on the dole has just come back from a shopping trip to New York :mad:

You tell me how the fcuk thay can afford such luxuries on the dole??

I don't know ask them?

Point proved, lets cut the dole to stop the bast**ds jetting of to New York.:rolleyes:

alrilad

I totally agree.. This country is messed up the people who have been working through the good times and are now looking for work get shot down while the drunks and drugies get handouts left right and centre!!
Can anyone explain this to me??

ShooterSF

CamperMan wrote: »

someone I know on the dole has just come back from a shopping trip to New York :mad:

it's obvious the dole pays out to much money if the dole bums can afford luxuries like this..

Maybe they had saved up for the trip when working?

Maybe they got a nice inheritance and said feck it I cant get a job and have been running around with CVs Ill treat myself?

Maybe they won the trip or won a big bet?

Maybe they sold something?

Maybe they were owend compo or even redundancy for something?

Loads of reasons why someone on the dole can still go on a holiday.

Latchy

Originally Posted by CamperMan
someone I know on the dole has just come back from a shopping trip to New York

You tell me how the fcuk thay can afford such luxuries on the dole??

If I was on the dole and I won a few hundred quid on a bet/ inheritence/ found it on the street / saved it , I would piss off to NYC or anywere else that took my fancy .

ongarite

Don't know if the red herring of can we afford to keep paying out dole of €204 a week with possible trebling of people seeking job seekers allowance/unemployment benefit has been adressed?

The increases in dole payments over the last decade were built on the assumption that levels of unemployment would never go above 5-6%. Now there have never been more people unemployeed (not as percentage of workforce but actual no. of people) and its looking like it will double again this year.

We are damned if we do and damned if we don't.
Either reduce dole payments and piss off an ever increasing amount of people or have to seriously increase taxes of those in work to pay for those who are not.

Looking at it from a purely economic point of view, the dole is nearly 3 times as much in Ireland as it is in the UK, child benfit over twice as much. Totally unsustainable in this climate.

alrilad

Who takes the hit? The people working or out of work? Its loss loss

Slig

Maybe unsustainable but I dont see the alternative. I would consider myself in a fairly typical situation, My outgoings on loans is €150 per week, I drive a €10K car but the car isnt an asset anymore, I cant sell it.

I am used to bringing home alot more than €204 per week and up until now covered my loans with loads to spare. 3 weeks ago I couldnt even contemplate getting this money for free but now I'm unemployed I dont have an alternative.

deadhead13

I assume you have being paying PRSI contributions - so it is not for free.

ShooterSF

See the problem comparing with the UK is the difference in cost of living, rent etc. 200quid a week is not throw around money. I do think it shouldnt have went up in the budget though and if we do see a drop in cost of living maybe a comparable percentage could be knocked off.

OT but I say it everytime. Before you touch the dole why not means test children's allowance?

ongarite

ShooterSF wrote: »

See the problem comparing with the UK is the difference in cost of living, rent etc. 200quid a week is not throw around money. I do think it shouldnt have went up in the budget though and if we do see a drop in cost of living maybe a comparable percentage could be knocked off.

OT but I say it everytime. Before you touch the dole why not means test children's allowance?

I can sort of agree with that but then how can you (Irish consumer) turn around and expect/demand that products sold in UK are sold at same price in Ireland??

arybvtcw0eolkf

Irishcrx wrote: »

I have a mate I live it and he has more bloody money than I do and I work 45 hours a week. He has his rent payed for him by the government and pays 30 euro a month himself, and then the extra 200 a week as normal and this is without lifting a finger all he does all day is sleep, eat, smoke and eat and complain about being busy if he has to walk 5 mins to the shop at some point in the next 4 hours.

Here's where your wrong.

The government don't pay his rent, WE THE TAX PAYER pay your waster of a mates rent.

Your mate is a lazy cunt, it doesn't mean the rest of the people on the dole follow suit.

Thankfully I'm not on the dole, and haven't been since the early 80's so I honestly don't know if its too much are not.

But what is too much is seeing lazy bastards like your mate sponge off the Irish tax payer, then have simpletons tar everyone else with the same brush.

ShooterSF

ongarite wrote: »

I can sort of agree with that but then how can you (Irish consumer) turn around and expect/demand that products sold in UK are sold at same price in Ireland??

Hmm Im not saying this is easy but just an idea (probably too simple and full of holes):

Drop vat to allow Irish shops to compete. Follow soon by an increase of income tax to balance the reduction in the coffers, therefore taxing the money at the back-end as such and reducing the desire to travel north without lowering peoples spending power (cheaper products). Then lower the dole due to the decrease in cost of living.

Just an idea off top of the head. Its probably flawed as Im not an economics proffessor(sp?)

Clueless09

To The OP IRISHCRX-your friend sounds like a complete tool, but that is no reason to think that everyone on the dole is a scrounger. I lost my job at xmas, after 8 years in same job. I get 800 a month now and me and partner are struggling to keep our house and ourselves. your friend may get his rent paid, i have a mortgage so no such luck, i cant even get a GP visit card. 200 is not a lot when you have mortgage, personal loan, food, gas, esb and then something crops up like your sick and you need to go the doctor and there goes 60 on the doc and another 20 on antibiotics. There are some good, honest people that have paid taxes for years getting F all back. dont judge-you could be in the same boat before long...

arybvtcw0eolkf

Clueless09 wrote: »

To The OP IRISHCRX-your friend sounds like a complete tool, but that is no reason to think that everyone on the dole is a scrounger. I lost my job at xmas, after 8 years in same job. I get 800 a month now and me and partner are struggling to keep our house and ourselves. your friend may get his rent paid, i have a mortgage so no such luck, i cant even get a GP visit card. 200 is not a lot when you have mortgage, personal loan, food, gas, esb and then something crops up like your sick and you need to go the doctor and there goes 60 on the doc and another 20 on antibiotics. There are some good, honest people that have paid taxes for years getting F all back. dont judge-you could be in the same boat before long...

The OP will tell you your Clueless!..


/Grabs hat & coat...

alrilad

Mairt wrote: »

Here's where your wrong.

The government don't pay his rent, WE THE TAX PAYER pay your waster of a mates rent.

Your mate is a lazy cunt, it doesn't mean the rest of the people on the dole follow suit.

Thankfully I'm not on the dole, and haven't been since the early 80's so I honestly don't know if its too much are not.

But what is too much is seeing lazy bastards like your mate sponge off the Irish tax payer, then have simpletons tar everyone else with the same brush.

I think you are very much out of touch with whats happening.. people worked and paid prsi for years and now that there is no work they are entitled to claim back what there due.. I hope you do keep your job so you wont have to be a lazy c***

Ironbars

alrilad wrote: »

Come on, are you for real?

ownknee

Irishcrx wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks the dole is far too high in this country, why would anyone want to get a job even if there was any. I have a mate I live it and he has more bloody money than I do and I work 45 hours a week. He has his rent payed for him by the government and pays 30 euro a month himself, and then the extra 200 a week as normal and this is without lifting a finger all he does all day is sleep, eat, smoke and eat and complain about being busy if he has to walk 5 mins to the shop at some point in the next 4 hours.

Do you think the government will be forced to cut the dole payments if the national debt and unemployment keeps rising?

If you can find me a job then please by all means let me know but the reality of it is that the majority of people getting social welfare assistance don't actually want to be idle.
Congratulations for having a job while there is more & more people being made redundant by the day. I hope you don't find yourself jobless because it's soul destroying.
I would however support anyone found working & claiming to have welfare payments stopped immediately. Also I would agree that there is a small number of people on the dole that have no ambition other than to sign on.
But it's not fair to target someone who is out of a job because they have no other choice or because they have a disability.
As for your friend it's his business how he spends his time but I personally think it's a waste from what you have described.
I'm not trying to make excuses for him but do you think he might be suffering from depression or is he genuinely just lazy?

pandas

its not 'free money'!!!

you only get it if you paid your social INSURANCE two years ago, i.e. if you were working. you are not entitled to it if you didn't and plus you can only stay claiming it for a certain amount of months after which you are cut off!!

i think with the amount of PRSI we pay each year, if and when i will need the dole, i sure as hell hope all of the measly €200 it is there for me without any qualms.

alrilad

There are two type of people on the dole, people who are now unemployed due to the globle downturn and people who never want to work! Is this fare to say?? Anyone who has paid there prsi in recent years is more that right to claim there dole money but what can be done about the ones who WORK THE SYSTEM????

Slig

People claiming the dole have always been looked down on by society, it used to be that if you were on the dole you were a lazy waster. that was when there were plenty of jobs around and not enough people to fill them, people were even coming into the country to take the low paid jobs the Irish didnt want.

Now, however, the situation has completely changed. You can have worked hard in a high paid job for the last 10 years on €40k a year and still end up queueing outside the post office every week. Being on the Dole doesnt mean you are lazy anymore, it means you are unlucky. Unfortunately some people havent recognised the change.

They are too busy blaming the public service and government to realise that the queues outside the Dept. of social and family affairs has gotten 10 times longer, that these people arent all wearing tracksuits anymore and that in just 2 weeks time it could very well be them standing in the rain getting looks of disgust from the people driving by.

deadhead13

alrilad wrote: »

There are two type of people on the dole, people who are now unemployed due to the globle downturn and people who never want to work! Is this fare to say?? Anyone who has paid there prsi in recent years is more that right to claim there dole money but what can be done about the ones who WORK THE SYSTEM????

Agreed, but alot of people don't make that distinction on this forum.

alrilad

No thats not fare. Ive been picked up wrong.. Im saying if you cant get a job but are looking like many people are thats fair and best of luck to them... What gets me are the ones who just want the dole, they have no plans to get work and see queing for the dole as there weeks work. Now nobody here can say this doesnt happen... sorry if I sound a bit harsh in the last post but can ye see what im saying?

menoscemo

We Have a retarded dole system, no doubt.
Whether you have been working constantly for the last 20 years and paying taxes or whether you have never worked a day in your life, you get the same money.
Unfortunately it is another case of us copying the British model of social security as a 'safety net' (although in fairness our dole is a good bit higher than in the UK). Throughout the continent almost all countries have adopted a system whereby you get paid social security based on a percentage of you last salary. This percentage drops off every few months if you fail to gain further employment, to a point where after a year or two you only get a very basic payment. This is a much fairer way of doing it.

In conclusion, the Dole is probably too little if you have just lost your job, but too much if you are long-term unemployed.
Unfortunately our current system in no way encourages the longterm unemployed/never employed to find a job as realistically they are never gonna get a job with better salary prospects than what they already get for doing nothing. I have no doubt this is why we have such a thriving 'underclass' (IMO it is an insult to all working folk to call such people working class).

Dob74

alrilad wrote: »

Ithink the term builders refers to self employed builders be that contractors or sub contractors... thats just my take on it. Open to correction

I would agree with you, a builder refers to a general contractor. For some reason most people in the media tend to lable everyone in the construction industry as "builders" weather they are an employee or a contractor.
As for the dole, its not much but it shouldnt be too high. That would only take away the incentive to work.

javaboy

menoscemo wrote: »

We Have a retarded dole system, no doubt.
Whether you have been working constantly for the last 20 years and paying taxes or whether you have never worked a day in your life, you get the same money.

Why should you get more the more you've contributed? It's not a pension. It's a sustenance/living allowance.

alrilad

Is it not like car insurance the more you pay for a better policy the more cover you get.. I think the more you pay in prsi the more you should get back and vice versa, although I thougth this was the case??????!!!!!!

CamperMan

ShooterSF wrote: »

Maybe they had saved up for the trip when working?

Maybe they got a nice inheritance and said feck it I cant get a job and have been running around with CVs Ill treat myself?

Maybe they won the trip or won a big bet?

Maybe they sold something?

Maybe they were owend compo or even redundancy for something?

Loads of reasons why someone on the dole can still go on a holiday.

None of the above.. they have been on the dole for over 15 years.. 15 friggin years, it's a disgrace