Israel bans Arab parties from running in upcoming elections

ionix5891

Instead of replying to the existing threads on the I/P issue which got rather long taught i'll start a separate thread here in Politics


http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054867.html

The Central Elections Committee (CEC) yesterday banned the Arab parties United Arab List-Ta'al and Balad from running in next month's parliamentary elections amid accusations of racism from Arab MKs. Both parties intend to challenge the decision in the Supreme Court.

Members of the CEC conceded yesterday that the chance of the Supreme Court's upholding the ban on both parties was slim.

Arab faction delegates in the CEC walked out of the hall before the vote, shouting, "this is a fascist, racist state.".

marcsignal

They've just excluded these parties because they can. Who is going to stop them ? The UN ??
I will say though, that it is an odd thing to happen in a country that 'claims' to be a democracy.

seamus

Well Israel is probably the most openly everything-ist country on the planet, so I'm not surprised.

jank

Israel is a flawed state. It is a jewish state. Nothing wrong with that but they forgot about the 5.6 million other non jews that live in Israel itself and the Occupied territories. So what are they going to do? Grant them a passport. If they do they are a minority so to remain a majority they just decline them rights and the right to statehood. South Africa again.

A 2 state solution is the only solution to build upon.

Whatever you think about Hamas as scum these are facts that cant be disputed.

tricky D

They tried this in 2003 and it didn't get through the Supreme Court.

marcsignal

These parties shouldn't feel too left out though. Israel has also now seen fit to ban Norman Finklestein from the country for 10 years. Seemingly freedom of speech and information are not part of Israeli Democracy either..

tricky D wrote: »

They tried this in 2003 and it didn't get through the Supreme Court.

why should the supreme court bother them ? They've consistantly ignored the World Court for years.

Manic Moran

why should the supreme court bother them ? They've consistantly ignored the World Court for years.

I don't believe the latter is legally binding within Israel. (It certainly isn't within the US). The former is an Israeli institution, tends to have a bit more weight.

NTM

wes

Looks like Israels claims of being a "democracy" are a tad exagerated.

I have made this point repeatedly, that Israels laws could be used to do exactly this before in threads on here. Looks like I was sadly proven right on this.

Anyway, Seth Freedman has a Guardian CIF piece, concerning this as well as the arrest of protesters, whom were protesting against the current slaughter in Gaza:
A week is a long time in Israel

I think the arrest of protesters is another black mark against Israels "democracy".

The Saint

Well the army have ignored their own sepreme court in not allowing any journalists into Gaza.

I'm actually quite surprised by this as the government are usually good in complying with their own supreme courts rulings even if many of the SC's decisions are dispicable.

Manic Moran

Just to make sure we're not receiving selective information, I do have two questions:

1) Are there any Arab parties which were not barred from the elections? If so, what distinguishes the two named barred parties from the ones which were not?

2) Are there any non-Arab parties which were also barred? If so, why?

NTM

Boston

marcsignal wrote: »

They've just excluded these parties because they can. Who is going to stop them ? The UN ??
I will say though, that it is an odd thing to happen in a country that 'claims' to be a democracy.

Its not the role of the UN to interfere with the internal political structure of a country. Its has no charter to impose democracy on the world.

jank wrote: »

Israel is a flawed state. It is a jewish state. Nothing wrong with that but they forgot about the 5.6 million other non jews that live in Israel itself and the Occupied territories. So what are they going to do? Grant them a passport. If they do they are a minority so to remain a majority they just decline them rights and the right to statehood. South Africa again.

The ones who are israeli citizens have passports, the ones that arn't, don't.

marcsignal wrote: »

These parties shouldn't feel too left out though. Israel has also now seen fit to ban Norman Finklestein from the country for 10 years. Seemingly freedom of speech and information are not part of Israeli Democracy either..

We have neither freedom of speach nor information in this country. During the troubles the state broadcaster was regularly censored and lets not talk about what went on during "the emergency".

wes wrote: »

Looks like Israels claims of being a "democracy" are a tad exagerated.

I have made this point repeatedly, that Israels laws could be used to do exactly this before in threads on here. Looks like I was sadly proven right on this.

Anyway, Seth Freedman has a Guardian CIF piece, concerning this as well as the arrest of protesters, whom were protesting against the current slaughter in Gaza:
A week is a long time in Israel

I think the arrest of protesters is another black mark against Israels "democracy".

Well I think it says a huge amount about Israeli law that the supreme court will not uphold the bans. Fair play lads.

wes

Boston wrote: »

Well I think it says a huge amount about Israeli law that the supreme court will not uphold the bans. Fair play lads.

No decision has been made by the supreme court on the bans. They are making a appeal and that as far as it has gotten so far. Your getting ahead of yourself basically.

IRISH RAIL

Manic Moran wrote: »

Just to make sure we're not receiving selective information, I do have two questions:

1) Are there any Arab parties which were not barred from the elections? If so, what distinguishes the two named barred parties from the ones which were not?

2) Are there any non-Arab parties which were also barred? If so, why?

NTM

answer to the first part
The CEC voted overwhelmingly in favor of the motions, accusing the country's Arab parties of incitement, supporting terrorist groups and refusing to recognize Israel's right to exist.

The requests to ban the Arab parties were filed by two ultra right parties Yisrael Beiteinu and National Union-National Religious Party.

Im sure theres plenty of other countries in the world where something similar exists its just that in this case it is in Israel any any chance to bash them is never missed.

The Saint

Here's the Wiki of the Israeli Central Elections Committee

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Central_Elections_Committee

One thing I found strange is this:

In 1985, the Knesset approved a law which, for the first time, allowed the committee to disqualify a party list on the grounds of its ideological platform. The law allowed the committee to bar parties from elections that negate the existence of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state, made incitements to racism, or supported the armed struggle of an enemy state or terrorist organization against the state of Israel.

Therefore any party calling for Israel to be a state or all its citizens regardless of race or religion could technically be barred.

Seems like a dodgy group anyway.

The Saint

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

answer to the first part
The CEC voted overwhelmingly in favor of the motions, accusing the country's Arab parties of incitement, supporting terrorist groups and refusing to recognize Israel's right to exist.

The requests to ban the Arab parties were filed by two ultra right parties Yisrael Beiteinu and National Union-National Religious Party.

Im sure theres plenty of other countries in the world where something similar exists its just that in this case it is in Israel any any chance to bash them is never missed.

I wonder how many Israeli Arabs have representation and a vote on this committee? It seems anyway that most of these actions are usually overturned by the supreme court.

It seems that every time an Arab party was banned it was overturned on appeal. This would indecate to me that these are political actions taken mostly by right wing politicians.

The only time a Jewish party was banned it was upheld by the SC for incitements to racism.

turgon

I love the completely misleading title this thread was given. True, Israel is far far far from perfect, but this thread title only puts them down even more.

Most of the anti-Israeli responses here are is based on the assumption that most people will just go "yeah the israelies are up to it again", which unfortunately is what actually happens. This might be the case, but innocent until proven guilty and all that. I dont see anyone making any attempt to substantiate their claims that these actions were simply racist.

The two parties banned are amongst the three biggest arab parties there, to answer Manic Moran. Apparently they were banned for supporting terrorism, I imagine its to do with the latest spate of violence. And so what? If theres a party in any state that is supporting rocket assaults on it, why should they not be banned?

This is only true if this is legitimate. Im not saying it is legitimate, and does indeed looks very suspect.

Boston

tricky D wrote: »

They tried this in 2003 and it didn't get through the Supreme Court.

wes wrote: »

No decision has been made by the supreme court on the bans. They are making a appeal and that as far as it has gotten so far. Your getting ahead of yourself basically.

See tricky's post.

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

Im sure theres plenty of other countries in the world where something similar exists its just that in this case it is in Israel any any chance to bash them is never missed.

Tbh, if there was evidence of these parties having links with,supporting or inciting terrorists the members would be imprisoned. This doesn't seem right.

The Saint

turgon wrote: »

The two parties banned are amongst the three biggest arab parties there, to answer Manic Moran. Apparently they were banned for supporting terrorism, I imagine its to do with the latest spate of violence. And so what? If theres a party in any state that is supporting rocket assaults on it, why should they not be banned?

This is only true if this is legitimate. Im not saying it is legitimate, and does indeed looks very suspect.

Well every other time this committee tried to ban Arab parties for supporting terrorism or other such charges they have been overturned by the supreme court. To me it look like right wing groups seeking to exclude Arab parties from elections based a little evidence. Is it based on racism? Who knows but it does seem odd that they seem to target Arab parties.

turgon

But what would be the point in taking them out, when they only account for 5% of the Knesset?

The Saint

turgon wrote: »

But what would be the point in taking them out, when they only account for 5% of the Knesset?

Well while it's only 5% of the Knesset it removes the largest Arab parties and denies Israeli Arab representation. Given the nature of these parties seeking the ban I'd say their motives are less than pure.

wes

Boston wrote: »

See tricky's post.

I am talking about what happened now, not in 2003. The current decision has not been over turned.

wes

turgon wrote: »

Most of the anti-Israeli responses here are is based on the assumption that most people will just go "yeah the israelies are up to it again", which unfortunately is what actually happens. This might be the case, but innocent until proven guilty and all that. I dont see anyone making any attempt to substantiate their claims that these actions were simply racist.

Israel has a habit of making themselves look bad and also looking at the law pointed out earlier, a party can be banned for simply asking for the state to be a state of all it citizens.

Also, you mention innocent before being proven guilty, well that would be nice if the Arab parties were taken to a court, where they could defend themselves, instead of some committee. Be nice if they had that opportunity, but looks like they have to go to the supreme court to have there side heard on appeal. The whole ban stinks to high heaven to me.

Nodin

turgon wrote: »

But what would be the point in taking them out, when they only account for 5% of the Knesset?

Playing to the mob, I'd imagine.

IRISH RAIL

wes wrote: »

Israel has a habit of making themselves look bad and also looking at the law pointed out earlier, a party can be banned for simply asking for the state to be a state of all it citizens.
.

way to go on twisting words and half truths there.
a party wont be banned for calling the state of Israel to be a state of al its citizens. a party will be banned that does not believe the state should exist imagine fine gael in ireland calling for the republic to be abolished and put under english control.
its clearly stated in the decleration of independance about freedom of religion

it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Peace%20Process/Guide%20to%20the%20Peace%20Process/Declaration%20of%20Establishment%20of%20State%20of%20Israel

quoted by the saint
Well every other time this committee tried to ban Arab parties for supporting terrorism or other such charges they have been overturned by the supreme court. To me it look like right wing groups seeking to exclude Arab parties from elections based a little evidence. Is it based on racism? Who knows but it does seem odd that they seem to target Arab partiesWell every other time this committee tried to ban Arab parties for supporting terrorism or other such charges they have been overturned by the supreme court. To me it look like right wing groups seeking to exclude Arab parties from elections based a little evidence. Is it based on racism? Who knows but it does seem odd that they seem to target Arab parties

there was the kahane party a few years ago which was decleared a terrorist orginisation and the state really did crack down on these guys.
these arab parties are supporters of hamas who want the state dystroyed, Im sure the people accusing them right wing or not would have to have some evidence to have them banned.

Nodin

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; .

"Prophets" go into the other forum(s) related to religon.

(If they give you any tips for the gee-gees however, PM me.)

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex;.

..which, as illustrated in the main thread, its failed miserably to do. I actually posted an article on this from Ha'aretz there yesterday, as its only duplicating the same arguments - starting from scratch - here.

The Saint

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

way to go on twisting words and half truths there.
a party wont be banned for calling the state of Israel to be a state of al its citizens. a party will be banned that does not believe the state should exist imagine fine gael in ireland calling for the republic to be abolished and put under english control.
its clearly stated in the decleration of independance about freedom of religion

it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Peace%20Process/Guide%20to%20the%20Peace%20Process/Declaration%20of%20Establishment%20of%20State%20of%20Israel

That's all nice but:

In 1985, the Knesset approved a law which, for the first time, allowed the committee to disqualify a party list on the grounds of its ideological platform. The law allowed the committee to bar parties from elections that negate the existence of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state, made incitements to racism, or supported the armed struggle of an enemy state or terrorist organization against the state of Israel.

So if a party challenges the characterisation of Israel as a Jewish state can be banned. Therefore if a party wants this characterisation to be removed due to many citizens of the state being non-Jews they can technically be banned.

The first provision, dealing with the existence of Israel as a Jewish state, has been the most controversial since it is possible that parties favoring a one-state solution could be banned under it.

So a party proposing a one state solution to the conflict could also be banned. Surely people should be allowed to vote on this platform since Jews as well as Arabs in the past have supported such a solution to the conflict. It's pretty much a moot point as it has very little political support these days but it shouldn't mean that a party advocating it should be procluded from running in elections.

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

there was the kahane party a few years ago which was decleared a terrorist orginisation and the state really did crack down on these guys.
these arab parties are supporters of hamas who want the state dystroyed, Im sure the people accusing them right wing or not would have to have some evidence to have them banned.

Do you have any evidence that these parties support Hamas? Would you not want to await the result of the appeal to the supreme court befoer passing judgement. Since every other time an Arab party has been banned by this commission it has been overturned so I think it's a bit premature for you to judge.

I have also pointed out that the only party to have their ban upheld by the SC was an extreme racist, right wing Jewish party who called for all Arabs to be deproted from the country including the Occupied Territories.

TOMASJ

We were led to belive in another thread by the same pro Israeli posters,
that Palestinians living in Israel lived in a land of "milk and honey"

I for one was not up to scratch as to what was taking place to the Palestinians in Israel unto this current barbarism started, A programme I watched only a few days ago on Press TV on sky called Our Suffering made by a guy from Bristol in England opened my eyes,
these Palestinian people are treated no better than dogs,
Are the powers of the world sleeping or will they wait to the Palestinians are driven out of their own land ,
Its will be to late then for wringing of hands and talk about standing idly by.

IRISH RAIL

The Saint wrote: »

That's all nice but:

So if a party challenges the characterisation of Israel as a Jewish state can be banned. Therefore if a party wants this characterisation to be removed due to many citizens of the state being non-Jews they can technically be banned.


So a party proposing a one state solution to the conflict could also be banned. Surely people should be allowed to vote on this platform since Jews as well as Arabs in the past have supported such a solution to the conflict. It's pretty much a moot point as it has very little political support these days but it shouldn't mean that a party advocating it should be procluded from running in elections.



Do you have any evidence that these parties support Hamas? Would you not want to await the result of the appeal to the supreme court befoer passing judgement. Since every other time an Arab party has been banned by this commission it has been overturned so I think it's a bit premature for you to judge.

I have also pointed out that the only party to have their ban upheld by the SC was an extreme racist, right wing Jewish party who called for all Arabs to be deproted from the country including the Occupied Territories.

thats exactly what I was saying Im sure they didnt make any accusations without evidence to back it up

IRISH RAIL

TOMASJ wrote: »

We were led to belive in another thread by the same pro Israeli posters,
that Palestinians living in Israel lived in a land of "milk and honey"

I for one was not up to scratch as to what was taking place to the Palestinians in Israel unto this current barbarism started, A programme I watched only a few days ago on Press TV on sky called Our Suffering made by a guy from Bristol in England opened my eyes,
these Palestinian people are treated no better than dogs,
Are the powers of the world sleeping or will they wait to the Palestinians are driven out of their own land ,
Its will be to late then for wringing of hands and talk about standing idly by.

would that be this press tv by any chance?

from wiki
Press TV is an English language international television news channel which is funded by the Iranian government, based in Tehran and broadcasts in English on a round-the-clock schedule. With 26 international correspondents and more than 400 staff around the world, its stated mission is to offer a different view of the world events
mmm straight from the heart of hate to you tv Amejinidads view of the west.

jank

The ones who are israeli citizens have passports, the ones that arn't, don't.

And how many of them are Arabs? What about the rest of them? What passport are they entitiled to?

jank

Irish Rail how can you see a peaceful resolution to the whole thing? What would you propose Israel should do