Star Trek Voyager

Rawr

Phototoxin wrote: »

I thought fanservice was only in anime?

It pretty much is. However I get the feeling that some of the Star Trek staff are anime fans. The frequency of Japanese cast and the anime-esque design of some characters, lead me to believe that they were trying to create more of a sci-fi anime with the franchise.

A fan service character or event usually happens in most if not all of the modern Star Trek series. Dianna Troi appears to be the first attempt at this in TNG, with her first donning the cat-suit. (We sort of get a 'nude' scene when herself and her mother are transported out of their clothes by Ferengi)

I guess Jadzia Dax fills this role in DS9 (together with obligatory 'lesbian' scene),and also Esri Dax being portrayed very like a cutesy anime-girl who's unsure of herself.

Voyager starts off with a stock anime Elf-Girl (Kes) and we then move onto an anime robot-girl (Seven-of-Nine). As mentioned, 7o'9 get's plenty of fan-service in VOY, from asking Kim if he was looking to have sex with her (and then diciding it was a good idea before Kim panics, like many a male anime protagonist), to having her clothes being zapped off her by Q Jr.

Enterprise also gets two anime inserts. This time an anime Elf-Woman (T'Pol), with too much Fan-Service to list here. And low and behold, a girl named 'Mihoshi' no less. Why is that significant? Well...if you know some anime, you'll probably know about Tenchi-Muyo. It was an anime which featured a ditzy space-cop called...Mihoshi. It's a fairly common Japanese name, but I feel that the Star Trek staff simply named the Enterprise character after her, and then started using the short-form. 'Hoshi has her own fan service moment too, with her top flying off when she jumps out of a Jefferies Tube. The scene was neither funny nor interesting, and was little more than fan service.

==========

On reflection of these characters and to a lesser extent, the shows around them. They would have probably worked better as anime. They would be very more visually interesting and would not suffer from the hammy acting of the Trek cast. Seven of Nine in particular, as I feel that Jeri Ryan simply couldn't develop the character beyond her wooden Spock 2.0 performance.

dyl10

Voyager wasn't great in itself, but it's exploration of the old reliables, Borg, Q and Time travel made it worth while.

The Captin Braxton episodes were some of the best star trek had to offer.
I quite liked Fair Haven, but you know, that was for obvious reasons

Mal-Adjusted

Rawr wrote: »

It pretty much is. However I get the feeling that some of the Star Trek staff are anime fans. The frequency of Japanese cast and the anime-esque design of some characters, lead me to believe that they were trying to create more of a sci-fi anime with the franchise.

A fan service character or event usually happens in most if not all of the modern Star Trek series. Dianna Troi appears to be the first attempt at this in TNG, with her first donning the cat-suit. (We sort of get a 'nude' scene when herself and her mother are transported out of their clothes by Ferengi)

I guess Jadzia Dax fills this role in DS9 (together with obligatory 'lesbian' scene),and also Esri Dax being portrayed very like a cutesy anime-girl who's unsure of herself.

Voyager starts off with a stock anime Elf-Girl (Kes) and we then move onto an anime robot-girl (Seven-of-Nine). As mentioned, 7o'9 get's plenty of fan-service in VOY, from asking Kim if he was looking to have sex with her (and then diciding it was a good idea before Kim panics, like many a male anime protagonist), to having her clothes being zapped off her by Q Jr.

Enterprise also gets two anime inserts. This time an anime Elf-Woman (T'Pol), with too much Fan-Service to list here. And low and behold, a girl named 'Mihoshi' no less. Why is that significant? Well...if you know some anime, you'll probably know about Tenchi-Muyo. It was an anime which featured a ditzy space-cop called...Mihoshi. It's a fairly common Japanese name, but I feel that the Star Trek staff simply named the Enterprise character after her, and then started using the short-form. 'Hoshi has her own fan service moment too, with her top flying off when she jumps out of a Jefferies Tube. The scene was neither funny nor interesting, and was little more than fan service.

==========

On reflection of these characters and to a lesser extent, the shows around them. They would have probably worked better as anime. They would be very more visually interesting and would not suffer from the hammy acting of the Trek cast. Seven of Nine in particular, as I feel that Jeri Ryan simply couldn't develop the character beyond her wooden Spock 2.0 performance.

woah...yea, it's fan service, but anime inspired? now you're just looking for stuff that isn't there. reading waaaaay too much into it

Svalbard

I think Voyager and her crew had too comfortable a ride through the Delta Quad for 7 years. In Season 1 they were constantly worried about finding food and energy supplies. In later seasons these seemed to fall into their laps and getting the supplies they needed was no big deal. In fact as they went on they gained Borg tech, the mobile emitter and the Delta Flyer - they were better off tech wise than when they started. They were also just too clean!

I would have preferred a grittier take - the ship gets more damaged and worn every year, systems shut down, the crew get a bit lassez-faire about uniforms etc. things should have got more desperate, not easier. Anytime they ran into trouble there was always a modified deflector array/Seven's nanoprobes/The mobile emitter/some convienient alien technology lying around etc to save the day. It was just too easy!

The show should have progressed more like the Year of Hell episode, in slow motion. the ship gets more damaged, crew members die, ethics are sacrificed in the name of survival (sometimes). That would have been more realistic and more compeling viewing.

Mal-Adjusted

Svalbard wrote: »

I think Voyager and her crew had too comfortable a ride through the Delta Quad for 7 years. In Season 1 they were constantly worried about finding food and energy supplies. In later seasons these seemed to fall into their laps and getting the supplies they needed was no big deal. In fact as they went on they gained Borg tech, the mobile emitter and the Delta Flyer - they were better off tech wise than when they started. They were also just too clean!

I would have preferred a grittier take - the ship gets more damaged and worn every year, systems shut down, the crew get a bit lassez-faire about uniforms etc. things should have got more desperate, not easier. Anytime they ran into trouble there was always a modified deflector array/Seven's nanoprobes/The mobile emitter/some convienient alien technology lying around etc to save the day. It was just too easy!

The show should have progressed more like the Year of Hell episode, in slow motion. the ship gets more damaged, crew members die, ethics are sacrificed in the name of survival (sometimes). That would have been more realistic and more compeling viewing.

+1 I think the idea of no visable damage was that they could recycle old fly-by footage & not have to come up with more (something that should have been simple from season 4 onwards because they switched from models to cgi)
The Year of Hell was suppose to last a whole season long.
they did the ethics thing with the Equinox & season 3 of Enterprise.

nyarlothothep

Svalbard wrote: »

I think Voyager and her crew had too comfortable a ride through the Delta Quad for 7 years. In Season 1 they were constantly worried about finding food and energy supplies. In later seasons these seemed to fall into their laps and getting the supplies they needed was no big deal. In fact as they went on they gained Borg tech, the mobile emitter and the Delta Flyer - they were better off tech wise than when they started. They were also just too clean!

I would have preferred a grittier take - the ship gets more damaged and worn every year, systems shut down, the crew get a bit lassez-faire about uniforms etc. things should have got more desperate, not easier. Anytime they ran into trouble there was always a modified deflector array/Seven's nanoprobes/The mobile emitter/some convienient alien technology lying around etc to save the day. It was just too easy!

The show should have progressed more like the Year of Hell episode, in slow motion. the ship gets more damaged, crew members die, ethics are sacrificed in the name of survival (sometimes). That would have been more realistic and more compeling viewing.

Exactly. In fact one of the things I found dumb was the fact that none of the characters advanced in rank because they had to preserve a status quo on board. A very silly reason, but then thats Janeway :rolleyes:. It's not that I'm against the idea of female captain, I think the female characters in DS9 were way better than Janeway, its just that she seemed to come from the same ilk as the asshole admirals in TNG, who were all north americans strangely enough. Rank should have slowly dissipated, they were fairly educated and the close proximity of living together on a ship should have made things more democratic.

Amtmann

I did not realise how awful Voyager is until I rewatched TNG.

I can't really describe how sorry it was, but this guy can: http://www.youtube.com/user/sfdebris

Pride Fighter

Miles better than DS9 IMO. I say this because if I was to rate the episodes I'd give more 6 and 7 out of 10's to Voyager than DS9 by miles. DS9 was very inconsistent, you would have extremely shit episodes that were really ****, the first 2 seasons were shit but even after when it improved there were still some absolute stinkers of episodes. Voyager was always near the same level, good and only occasionally spectacular. I will say that DS9 has some of the greatest ever episodes in star trek, way more than Voyager. But Voyager is better overall.

Voyager FTW:D

Rawr

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

now you're just looking for stuff that isn't there. reading waaaaay too much into it

...and them some

I gotta stop doing that :pac:

Johnny Storm

Phototoxin wrote: »

We are given an extreme close up of Sevens arse ......?

You're sayin' that like it's a bad thing?!?!? :eek:

Cookie_Monster

Phototoxin wrote: »

and of course holodeck malfunction

how was that technology still in use, constant consdtant weird ****up happening with it accross all the ST series. It should at least come with a health and safety warning on the arch:pac:

Phototoxin wrote: »

metal slime clones

dyl10 wrote: »

The Captin Braxton episodes were some of the best star trek had to offer.

It's a pity this arc wasn't longer. It would have been great. They could also have ended it differently and required them to salvage bits of the ship etc etc. My favourite Voy eps by a country mile.

Svalbard wrote: »

I think Voyager and her crew had too comfortable a ride through the Delta Quad for 7 years. <snip rest>

+1

norrie rugger

Had absolute MASSIVE potential but delivered next to nothing

Svalbard

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Miles better than DS9 IMO. I say this because if I was to rate the episodes I'd give more 6 and 7 out of 10's to Voyager than DS9 by miles. DS9 was very inconsistent, you would have extremely shit episodes that were really ****, the first 2 seasons were shit but even after when it improved there were still some absolute stinkers of episodes. Voyager was always near the same level, good and only occasionally spectacular. I will say that DS9 has some of the greatest ever episodes in star trek, way more than Voyager. But Voyager is better overall.

Voyager FTW:D

No way, DS9 beats VOY hands down! For lots of reasons, but I'll take just one for now...characters.

Chakotay, Tuvok, Kim, Paris, Neelix - Boring and pointless. esp chakotay!!!!!!!!
Janeway - self-righteous and grating
Doctor - annoying at time, overused
Seven - good character, and other (ahem) attributes, but totally overused. herself and Janeway needed to get a room

Worf, Dax, Kira, Gul Dukat, Garak - great characters
Odo, bashir, o'brien, quark - pretty decent
sisko - could take him or leave him. best as a hard ass though

there are plenty of other reasons but my fingers are tired

Pride Fighter

Svalbard wrote: »

No way, DS9 beats VOY hands down! For lots of reasons, but I'll take just one for now...characters.

Chakotay, Tuvok, Kim, Paris, Neelix - Boring and pointless. esp chakotay!!!!!!!!
Janeway - self-righteous and grating
Doctor - annoying at time, overused
Seven - good character, and other (ahem) attributes, but totally overused. herself and Janeway needed to get a room

Worf, Dax, Kira, Gul Dukat, Garak - great characters
Odo, bashir, o'brien, quark - pretty decent
sisko - could take him or leave him. best as a hard ass though

there are plenty of other reasons but my fingers are tired

You completely overlooked my post. DS9 is absolutely shit for the most part. It is mostly crappy Bajor episodes and ****ty space station innuendo. Only when they are on the defiant or a war is on are the episodes in any way entertaining.

zynaps

Pride Fighter wrote: »

You completely overlooked my post. DS9 is absolutely shit for the most part. It is mostly crappy Bajor episodes and ****ty space station innuendo. Only when they are on the defiant or a war is on are the episodes in any way entertaining.

Meh. I very much enjoyed the spyish episodes with Garak and the Doctor, and some of the Section 31 episodes were pretty good. Also, O'Brien had some decent episodes (the virtual prison sentence episodes had some nice touches, as did the undercover one).

And one of my favourite characters is Gul Dukat - helped by his very pleasant voice, but also by his two-faced deluded charisma. Probably my favourite DS9 ep was an earlyish one where some old Cardassian booby-trap program switches the station into a lunatic defense mode where it tries to kill any non-Cardassian personnel, but turns on Garak and the smug Dukat when it decides he's trying to flee or something.

Agreed, it was very hit and miss, but TBH every Star Trek series was hit and miss in some regards (e.g. I personally couldn't stand the Fair Haven episodes of Voyager and Kes and Neelix were an almighty pain in the hole).

Svalbard wrote:

Anytime they ran into trouble there was always a modified deflector array/Seven's nanoprobes/The mobile emitter/some convienient alien technology lying around etc to save the day. It was just too easy!

The show should have progressed more like the Year of Hell episode, in slow motion. the ship gets more damaged, crew members die, ethics are sacrificed in the name of survival (sometimes). That would have been more realistic and more compeling viewing.

Absolutely couldn't agree more! I was a very big fan of Voyager, but after the first season or two a lot of the episodes started to feel too safe and sterile, in a way that many TNG episodes also felt (even though I loved most of them). Ooops, you used your tractor beam (that NEVER works except against vintage unthreatening ships that are only equipped with lasers) and they're sending a "feedback pulse down the beam" (WHAT????) and you can't disengage? No problem, just set up a static warp shell and use the broussard collectors to emit an inverse polaron burst which should dissipate the beam.
Too many contrived pseudo-technobabble dangers that are averted by other pseudo-technobabble. That's one aspect that was minimised with good results in DS9 compared to TNG and Voyager.
Year of Hell was so much more compelling than the norm because everything was a horrific, painful struggle where nobody won - it was one of the few times I felt fear, pity and apprehension for the characters, and those are worthy emotions to evoke.

Rawr wrote:

I guess Jadzia Dax fills this role in DS9 (together with obligatory 'lesbian' scene),and also Esri Dax being portrayed very like a cutesy anime-girl who's unsure of herself.

Let's not forget:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J1WNYt1rU4

Mal-Adjusted

zynaps wrote: »

Absolutely couldn't agree more! I was a very big fan of Voyager, but after the first season or two a lot of the episodes started to feel too safe and sterile, in a way that many TNG episodes also felt (even though I loved most of them). Ooops, you used your tractor beam (that NEVER works except against vintage unthreatening ships that are only equipped with lasers) and they're sending a "feedback pulse down the beam" (WHAT????) and you can't disengage? No problem, just set up a static warp shell and use the broussard collectors to emit an inverse polaron burst which should dissipate the beam.
Too many contrived pseudo-technobabble dangers that are averted by other pseudo-technobabble. That's one aspect that was minimised with good results in DS9 compared to TNG and Voyager.
Year of Hell was so much more compelling than the norm because everything was a horrific, painful struggle where nobody won - it was one of the few times I felt fear, pity and apprehension for the characters, and those are worthy emotions to evoke.

i 100% agree. the first two and a half seasons of Voyager are great, but it just overdoes it with the technobable, just like the new Doctor Who...and it starts to grate.

One of the reasons i love Enterprise is the sheer lack of psuedo-techno-BS. their TB goes as far as saying why thay can't beam someone up from the surface or a saboutour rerouted some sub-system so the engines won't stop.

zynaps

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

One of the reasons i love Enterprise is the sheer lack of psuedo-techno-BS. their TB goes as far as saying why thay can't beam someone up from the surface or a saboutour rerouted some sub-system so the engines won't stop.

Oh yeah, the transporter - another thing that often harms episodes:
"Help, we're outnumbered by Borg and they've adapted to our phasers!"
"Ok, beaming you out then!"
"Thx bye!" *flips the bird at Borg* *beeeeam*

The fact that it's downplayed a bit in Enterprise (and in some other good sci-fi series --> Firefly) makes things a little bit more realistic, and danger a little more dangerous

Kurn

I always hated the Chakotay character - though it was pointless but the actor it seems got lets parts because he was a bit of a p$$$ based on this interview
http://www.truveo.com/Robert-Beltran-Interview/id/4221258958

Mal-Adjusted

johnmryan wrote: »

I always hated the Chakotay character - though it was pointless but the actor it seems got lets parts because he was a bit of a p$$$ based on this interview
http://www.truveo.com/Robert-Beltran-Interview/id/4221258958

Pat Kenny could take lessons from that plank.:rolleyes: I was always annoyed that after the season 6/ season 7 crossing, Janeway, Tuvok and someone else (Torres?) get assimilated, then rescued. all the Borg implants are easily removed, leaving no scars. seven of nine, however, still has hers throughout. howcome? The show has no reprocussions for actions taken.

Kurn

Yea I know - they try to cover themselves by saying the doctor was able to remove most of our implants, but dont the borg often remove arms and eyes...

Mal-Adjusted

yip:D

Still love Voyager though...it's kinda like Dr. John Zoidberg, Pathetic yet adorable.

Cookie_Monster

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

yip:D

Still love Voyager though...it's kinda like Dr. John Zoidberg, Pathetic yet adorable.

How dare you.....














Zoidberg is awesome:D

zynaps

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

How dare you.....




Zoidberg is awesome:D

Talk the claw... WOOP woop woop woop! :pac: :pac:

Anti

Personlly i did enjoy voyager, but no where near as much as ds9. As a poster above pointed out Voyager had some awfull characters. There are still some episodes of voyager i cant bring myelf to watch as i actually feel embarased watching them. Grante some of the ds9 eps are horrible, especially the early eps with the who bajoran bollocks and even late ron ith the emmisary eps.

Svalbard

Pride Fighter wrote: »

You completely overlooked my post. DS9 is absolutely shit for the most part. It is mostly crappy Bajor episodes and ****ty space station innuendo. Only when they are on the defiant or a war is on are the episodes in any way entertaining.

No, I read it, i just completely disagree. DS9 was better than VOY on all fronts. VOY had stinkers of episodes and a real lack of imagination. So many of their episodes seem exactly the same. As I said before it was all too cosy and clean and relied way too much on tech. Added to that some pretty useless characters and massive plot holes.
DS9 did not always hit the mark, but did most of the time. I enjoyed its darkness, its realism (for a sci-fi show that is!!), its interesting and 3-dimensional characters, its intricate story and character arcs. It was not afraid to be different and it had real depth (not just janeways gravelly tones and hand gestures to indicate the pain and sense of responsibility she had to get her crew home blah blah blah). It also had kick-ass action episodes (Way of the Warrior, the ones on Ajillon Prime had a real sense of war - not a sanatised version, the one in season 7 when the crew and some starfleet heads defend a comm relay from the jem hadar was 'triffic! etc etc).

Look, I liked VOY ok, I watched it when it aired first time and I would happily watch any episode I come across on TV that I havent seen before. But there are few i would watch twice.
DS9, however, is usually worth a watch when I come across it, and many of its stand out episodes have stood the test of time.

Pepe LeFrits

BSG is what Voyager could have been under better direction.

User45701

BSG is what voyager was going to be Ron who wrote bsg was going to write voy but him and mate who had worked on soemthing else DS9? or some episodes of some show had a arguement because his mate was being an asshole to him because he got a better writing position of voy ? or they had some sort of faling out or something?